The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

Marioupole
Grads at work..
(fired at 0.04 hit at 0.54 that about 50 seconds)

Якщо ви майбутня вдова – дружина терориста з «ДНР» чи «ЛНР», – запам’ятайте наступне. Ми не воюємо проти жінок та дітей. Але дізнавшись про те, чим займається ваш чоловік, люди, які вас оточуватимуть, зроблять усе необхідне для того, щоб ваше життя перетворилося на пекло. Переконуйте своїх чоловіків у необхідності здатися і кров’ю та потом омити власну ганьбу і злочини проти українського народу. Якщо він цього не зробить, рано чи пізно йому доведеться стати жертвою нашої зброї.

If you are expectant widow - wife of a terrorist "DNR" or "FSC" - note the following. We are not at war against women and children. But knowing that your husband is doing, people who surrounded you, will do everything necessary to make your life turned into hell. Persuade their husbands to give up and need blood and sweat to wash their own shame and crimes against the Ukrainian people.

http://pravyysektor.info/articles/pamyatka-bizhentsyam/

Werewolf wrote:

gregoire wrote:This war, I don't know if it will ever stop. The hate some people of kiev have against the east is the craziest of the craziest. A whole generation has to be wiped out to get things back to normal. Nobody want's that so it will go on for a very long time. Thank the US of Evil for that.

The problem that was created by US in ukraine is the same like they did in China or lot of other countries.

They use always the same method and that means 20+ years of pure propaganda aimed at the coming generation not at the generations that are already considered adults. Someone who is already 20-30 years old is almost impossible to be brainwashed to turn him 180° or in other words to convince him to kill his own kind. A child like currently in Ukraine where little kids are teached to kill russians by knife and teached nazi parols and all that toxic nonsense, they will become a generation of hate consumed society. Russia really has to get a halt of it like China did. US has brainwashed young tibetians who are actually known to be peacefull and 16-20 year old tibetians were brainwashed and trained in the US to use violance against China and ended up getting occupied by China, right now you don't hear much about it..actually you don't hear anything about it. The chinese have stopped the entire influence of foreigners in their regions. Russia was stupid and naive enough for past two decades were americans have turned slavic people against slavic people.

Russia has to stop this brainwashing nonsense over hollywood, video games, american,british etc operated "News Agencies" in russia and the NGO's that are operated by any government that are from abroad.
Otherwise this will never stop. If Russia would steer up anti anglo saxon shit in US,UK or whereever you want to imagine they would already speak this "brainwashing" openly out and condemn russia for it, but russia just does nothing against those kind of acts of war.

I know. It has been done many times in history. Common people aren't aware of this way of brainwashing because it takes a life time and you have to be aware of it. Once you're brainwashed it's hard to go back unless you are shocked back into reality and even that takes time. I started to notice a shift in politics at the end of the 90's. All european government made a swing to the right while most of them were traditionally leftist. I had to ask myself why. First, yes, there was a crisis coming so I thought they were preparing for war. Now I believe it wasn't for the war itself but for the readiness to go to war under rightist/nazi flags because suddenly there was this uplift in interest in everything hitler did on the internet. It was there for everybody to read were before it was one of the biggest taboos. It even went this far that even in the office I worked a person asked if I had read mein kampf and he didn't understand why someone shouldn't read it (I think so to but for different reasons). Well, this may seem logical but for a society that had demonised nazi ideology so vehemently it was a bit odd. So I think this ukraine "war" had been planned far in advance and they hoped europeans would support it. I guess it came to early.

Mike E wrote:~2-3 years ago, so not that far back! Happened when I began to question Libya, Iraq, and Syria...

+1 to Nikola Tesla

Situation in Novorossiya, on 04/09/14 (with a bit higher resolution)

Source: http://kot-ivanov.livejournal.com/

So finally the story of "Russian army tanks" caught in Ukraine is collapsing on its own..
the double white lines marks are done by the Ukie army on their armor.. or maybe is just one Brigade..
Russia have send no T-72 tanks to Ukraine ,perhaps only light and medium weapons,with a couple of thousands private soldiers volunteers that are retired from the army. all the tanks captured inside comes from the Ukraine army..

And Putin is not an idiot.. he will not sent ever their latest models T-72b3 to Ukraine to damage its sales
in case is destroyed. Is business practices 101. You need to always protect the image of your products.
The T-72s that looks like Russian B3s were mods done by the Ukraine defense industry.. in other words they
are regular T-72 Exports from Russia Defense industry ,that were sold to central Europe and that they asked Ukraine to upgrade them..  So is not the same tank , not the same armor ,not the same features and i don't think it have reactive armor from Russia but an Ukraine version. the T-72b3-copies  are nothing more than T-72 exports upgraded by ukraine and that they were given back to Ukraine to help them in the war. case closed.  

So don't ever expect to see in Ukraine war any modern tank or combat jet..from Russia federation. No T-72b3 ,
No T-90s , No Armata T-95 , No Ka-52 or MI-28N . What will make sense is if Russia invade Ukraine they will use
special versions of T-72..with reinforced armor but that will look like same old tanks.. Russia have a HUGE , HUGE
business selling T-90s to India.. they want 1,000. And it will be completely retarded to send T-90s there and later
the western media shows many of them destroyed in the battle field in Ukraine.. so that later India change its mind
and decide to buy a Leopard or leclerk instead. If Russia is forced to invade they will try to do the job with hardware that is not their best and that sales well.  Smaller weapons like Krasnopol munition ,Kornets-d etc.. could be a different story.. but im sure there was to be a strong policy of destroying modern hardware and not allowing the enemy to capture any if there is a risk of happening,so that they are later reverse engineered.

This is the main reason people expecting to see NATO modern tanks ,fighting so close to Russian borders will have to wait for another much bigger war . and not so close to Russian borders ,were they can easily capture the hardware and move it to Russia.

the double white lines marks are done by the Ukie army on their armor.. or maybe is just one Brigade..

It's standard identification lines issued by all ATO forces

В Сумской области Украины на границе с Россией выкопали 60 км рва
http://lifenews.ru/news/139702


ho ho ho ..

arpakola wrote:В Сумской области Украины на границе с Россией выкопали 60 км рва
http://lifenews.ru/news/139702

ho ho ho ..

Let's wait until their engineers invent medieval wooden palicades... Great Ukrainian Wooden Palisade

Oh God, it's total nonsence compared to modern military engeneer support...

https://www.facebook.com/TruthfromUkraine?hc_location=timeline

Wow the map

What are the areas with stripes? Not 100% under control?


About the T-72...

What ukraine had before the war? Roughly 500 to 800 T-72 total? Maybe ~100 of them being operable... Most of those should be T-72B model 1985-89, with 4S20 (kontakt 1) ERA bricks... right? Ukraine probably also have a fair amount of older T-72, like T-72A(V) or T-72M1(V)...

Why would they use them, because they lost too much T-64 and can't replace them with stocks? It seems quite unbelievable to me, but, why not.
Of course, for kiev, using T-72 helps a lot its propaganda machine and delivers doubt, because "everyone knows UKR uses T-64"... And blame russia for those T-72 on its territory when they lose some.

As crazy and foolish as it sounds, Vann7, those *might* still be real russian T-72B3. Yes it's senseless for russia to send such tanks while they can easily send in T-64B or older T-72B... But, maybe it's not as easy as we think:

Look it this way: between 2011-early 2014, many units saw their T-72B or T-80B tanks being replaced by those new T-72BA and T-72B3... And guess what happened to them old tanks, scraped, stocked, or sent for overhaul... Basically unavailable. And when there was a urge to send tanks to help NAF, they had no other choice than sending these tanks ready and operable. My guess, those T-72B3 were simply given to rebels, but it may also be real russian crew inside sent in special assist operation by their hierarchy. According to all accounts anyway, crews were not seen/captured, simply evacuated safely after disabling or break down. Destroyed T-72B3 with turret far away was probably blown up later by demolition charges by UKR soldiers, to be sure rebels wouldn't use them again.

For the white stripes... It can simply be painted just after UKR forces found them and "captured them" for their own use, it proves nothing.

For the other theory, can you find any T-72M/ M1 in eastern europe which had such modernisation like 4S22 ERA (kontakt 5), and other obvious guizmos typical of T-72B3/BA?... It's bogus to me. Even if they were wicked enough to mount such a false flag and disguise a pair of T-72M into T-72B3, they frankly wouldn't have... They have other problems really, the entire army collapses, they don't have time for such things.


Imho, russia sent already several dozen tanks to the rebels, including T-64BV either from russian stocks or former UKR units in crimea, regular T-72B and those handful T-72BA/B3. Amount is between ~15 and 50 certainly.

Novorussian forces in June capture Artemovsk tank base with around 700 tanks, BMPs and BTRs. There were also T-72 tanks. Anyone know, if they manage to evacuate all those vehicles from base and now repair them to operational level. I think repairing T-72 have more sense for Novorussian army as they could easier get spare parts from UVZ than spare parts for T-64 tanks, which were produced in Ukraine in Harkov.

If they evacuate all those vehicles and if we count here all captured ones, than Novorussian army posses nearly 1000 armor vehicles, although not all operational. Combined with all destroyed vehicles, than Ukrainian army really lost a huge part of their armor and I doubt they will be able to replace all those losses.

Don't forget Ukraine also have Kontakt-5 ERA bricks as they build them on T-80 tanks. They sell their T-80UD tanks to Pakistan with Kontakt-5 ERA. I don't see a problem for Ukraine to modernize some of their T-72B with Kontakt-5 ERA and buy some Sosna-U FCS in Belarus to equip tanks similar to T-72B3.

 And when there was a urge to send tanks to help NAF, they had no other choice than sending these tanks ready and operable. 

Older tanks still quite operable, just stored. I've worked with 80s T-80B(V) myself in 2008 - they were standing fueled (conservation process issue) ad were able to start engines (mostly, one testing party seemed to need new engine).

On the other hand, if you give tanks from your troops you literally strip yourself out of a combat unit for a some time, it's a bit strange thing to do, as MoD have maintainance troops from the reserve command ready to deploy stored vehicles not touching combat units

For the white stripes... It can simply be painted just after UKR forces found them and "captured them" for their own use

Why would they paint stripes upon a captured vehicle? You can say it's NAF who deleted all those 'Free Donbass' and 'To Kiev' markings and painted ukrainian identification stripes before abandon their tank to frame ukrainian reporters, lol 

it proves nothing.

This picture proves nothing at all. It's not a T72B3 as nobody will be so stupid to send newest vehicles to NAF, even if they would, except for ukr propagandists may be. It's a T72 with older kontakt-1 (not even a kontakt-5) with ukr stripes painted on it and another bunch of lies from ukrainian reporters and bloggers. We ate enough of it from the start of the war (and actually from the Maidan events, then urkainian told bullshit about russian SF going to crush Maidan and alike)

Vann7 wrote:So finally the story of "Russian army tanks" caught in Ukraine is collapsing on its own..
the double white lines marks are done by the Ukie army on their armor.. or maybe is just one Brigade..
Russia have send no T-72 tanks to Ukraine ,perhaps only light and medium weapons,with a couple of thousands private soldiers volunteers that are retired from the army. all the tanks captured inside comes from the Ukraine army..

And Putin is not an idiot.. he will not sent ever their latest models T-72b3 to Ukraine to damage its sales
in case is destroyed. Is business practices 101. You need to always protect the image of your products.
The T-72s that looks like Russian B3s were mods done by the Ukraine defense industry.. in other words they
are regular T-72 Exports from Russia Defense industry ,that were sold to central Europe and that they asked Ukraine to upgrade them..  So is not the same tank , not the same armor ,not the same features and i don't think it have reactive armor from Russia but an Ukraine version. the T-72b3-copies  are nothing more than T-72 exports upgraded by ukraine and that they were given back to Ukraine to help them in the war. case closed.  

So don't ever expect to see in Ukraine war any modern tank or combat jet..from Russia federation. No T-72b3 ,
No T-90s , No Armata T-95 , No Ka-52 or MI-28N . What will make sense is if Russia invade Ukraine they will use
special versions of T-72..with reinforced armor but that will look like same old tanks.. Russia have a HUGE , HUGE
business selling T-90s to India.. they want 1,000. And it will be completely retarded to send T-90s there and later
the western media shows many of them destroyed in the battle field in Ukraine.. so that later India change its mind
and decide to buy a Leopard or leclerk instead. If Russia is forced to invade they will try to do the job with hardware that is not their best and that sales well.  Smaller weapons like Krasnopol munition ,Kornets-d etc.. could be a different story.. but im sure there was to be a strong policy of destroying modern hardware and not allowing the enemy to capture any if there is a risk of happening,so that they are later reverse engineered.

This is the main reason people expecting to see NATO modern tanks ,fighting so close to Russian borders will have to wait for another much bigger war . and not so close to Russian borders ,were they can easily capture the hardware and move it to Russia.

Yeah, there is the possibility, but are there any sources or information you can link? There is a reason many of us believe it did come from Russia, becuase it sure as heck looks like one!

Mike E wrote:
Yeah, there is the possibility, but are there any sources or information you can link? There is a reason many of us believe it did come from Russia, becuase it sure as heck looks like one!

The problem is that the OSCE could not even find a shred of evidence of wide scale arms trafficking by the Russian side, let alone whole tank units like the social-media-mongers are claiming, who haven't even dedicated .0001% of the effort to investigate arms trafficking claims. Is it so hard to believe for them that the weapon stockpiles in Rebel hands could actual be from Ukraine? Both Ukraine and Russia used be apart of the USSR, both countries widely speak Russian, and the majority of both countries military equipment were either made or designed in the Soviet era. As someone already mentioned the Sosna-U gunner site for the T-72M1 modernization is in fact a product from Belarus, and Belarus has a very deep and extensive military-technical cooperation with Ukraine such as the Shershen ATGM, plus the last major Belarussian arms expo had countless Ukrainian products, and lets not forget that Belarus refused publicly to cut-off military-technical cooperation with Ukraine when Russia requested that they do so.

And now the cease fire was signed....

WTF?

Porky obviously did so to force the novorussians to abandon the fight for mariupol... WHY TODAY? precisely today? the cease fire? hahaha it's hilarious... He was so afraid to lose the Mariupol city, he had to make this fake sh-t to manipulate once more the world opinion... If rebels break the C-F and continue to clean mariupol, it will again be all blamed on russia, on how the rebels are terrorists, etc... Disgustinng.

And who in its right mind would believe a second novorussians will stop and stand still in front of Mariupol, while they almost have it?

Something bad is going to happen...



PS: Mr. Snail Hollande was so hilarious when he made speach today at NATO meeting... What a farce and a disgrace for France.

Smart move. The west and the ukies will probably think it's all well and done, time to regroup and prepare for cleanup operations. If (or rather when) the ceasefire breakes down Russia will just go "well, we tried". Peacekeeping forces? USA won't send anyone, they've got the caliphate to worry about. EU is too weak to secure the area- this isn't Kosovo or the Golan Heights, it's thousands of square kilometers of steppes, and hills, and forests. There will be only one player who is not tied down, close by and with enough resources to launch such an operation.

Whatever Kremlin's plan is, they must have something significant up their sleeve. To paraphrase a beloved Game of Thrones character, if Kiev or the west think that this is the last page of the story, they haven't been paying attention.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Mike E wrote:
Yeah, there is the possibility, but are there any sources or information you can link? There is a reason many of us believe it did come from Russia, becuase it sure as heck looks like one!

The problem is that the OSCE could not even find a shred of evidence of wide scale arms trafficking by the Russian side, let alone whole tank units like the social-media-mongers are claiming, who haven't even dedicated .0001% of the effort to investigate arms trafficking claims. Is it so hard to believe for them that the weapon stockpiles in Rebel hands could actual be from Ukraine? Both Ukraine and Russia used be apart of the USSR, both countries widely speak Russian, and the majority of both countries military equipment were either made or designed in the Soviet era. As someone already mentioned the Sosna-U gunner site for the T-72M1 modernization is in fact a product from Belarus, and Belarus has a very deep and extensive military-technical cooperation with Ukraine such as the Shershen ATGM, plus the last major Belarussian arms expo had countless Ukrainian products, and lets not forget that Belarus refused publicly to cut-off military-technical cooperation with Ukraine when Russia requested that they do so.

True... My question to the "hoaxers" is how would Kiev of faked the -B3? As I've mentioned, they aren't that smart and that fact that RT and other networks happened to film it is coincidence...

Mike E wrote:
True... My question to the "hoaxers" is how would Kiev of faked the -B3? As I've mentioned, they aren't that smart and that fact that RT and other networks happened to film it is coincidence...

Kiev have an industry to build tanks.. they make T-62 and T-80 and they upgrade tanks too..
It wouldn't be hard for them to copy the Image and the looks of any T-72b3 tank that Russia have...
According to people who claims to know.. from the comments section in youtube..etc.. Russia sold
export version of T-72 to central europe.. as you know the export version are downgrades.. It never have all the electronics and or sensors and the armor is usually lower too ,same with the munition. SO apparently what happened is Ukraine was asked to upgrade T-72 tanks to make B3 copies with export version. and the same tanks
they upgraded ended being re-sold back with the war. Because Obama asked European Nations to sell any Russian hardware to ukraine... Notice how Obama have no problem with the selling of Russian tanks to Ukraine.. but why not sell them a Leopard modern tank or a modern M1A3? Because it will be very bad publicity for their sales if
they destroyed in eastern Ukraine.

Now Ukraine if join or associate NATO will be in a difficult position to Buy weapons. Specially its airforce.. because all the airforce of Ukraine was 100% Russian made and Russia will not sell any more military hardware to Ukraine. so they will probably have to buy Su-25 from vietnam.. or countries like that with foreign letters .. because NATO will not like to sell Ukraine Planes that they know will not last a day. Same with tanks .. So essentially Ukraine will depend on Russia not only for energy but for modernizing its Army because NATO will not sell weapons they know will end in Russian hands or simply destroyed.

You can go on and on, but there still is no solid evidence to prove your point... I'm talking videos, pictures, witnesses anything! 

I'm watching the TV right now, going on about Ebola wreaking havoc in Africa. I think NATO should impose sanctions on Russia until it figures out a way to stop the deadly virus. I'm telling you guys, it's THEM.