PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

Keep in mind that increased thrust and improved fuel efficiency are both needed for real improvements.

Making an engine twice as powerful alone does not off as much improvement as some might think as aircraft have fixed capacity internal fuel tanks that are designed for the engines available at the time of design.

Fuel consumption is generally measured in weight of fuel burned to generate the energy developed per hour of operation... if you double you energy produced you double the fuel consumption if you don't improve fuel consumption.

A case in point was the Yak-38 and Yak-38M VSTOL aircraft... the latter had a more powerful main engine, but because the aircraft itself was a subsonic design and no amount of extra thrust would allow it to be supersonic then the extra power increased take off weight but just shortened effective flight range.

Extra power with these engines however... with the bonus of internal weapons carriage meaning low drag should allow a boost in super cruising speed extending range and lowering IR signature and expanding flight range and improving the ability to evade or to chase targets down.

1 squadron is what? 12 aircrafts?

Incoming headlines from various bloggers/'Russia experts': "Russia slashes order for F-22ski!!!11!!"

That is perfectly in line with what's been announced by russian MoD before. A small quantity of preserial planes ordered, to develop tactics with and to practice on, before a larger contract (possibly with izd30 engines) is made sometime from 2020 onwards.

eridan wrote:That is perfectly in line with what's been announced by russian MoD before.  A small quantity of preserial planes ordered, to develop tactics with and to practice on, before a larger contract (possibly with izd30 engines) is made sometime from 2020 onwards.

We've seen something similar with the T-14 Armata. Ru MOD buys a small batch to try to finds bug before mass production, fixing the problems now before paying for them later. That's the complete opposite approach philosophy then the one practiced by the Pentagon.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

eridan wrote:That is perfectly in line with what's been announced by russian MoD before.  A small quantity of preserial planes ordered, to develop tactics with and to practice on, before a larger contract (possibly with izd30 engines) is made sometime from 2020 onwards.

We've seen something similar with the T-14 Armata. Ru MOD buys a small batch to try to finds bug before mass production, fixing the problems now before paying for them later. That's the complete opposite approach philosophy then the one practiced by the Pentagon.

It makes sense especially when considering the "5th gen" powerplants promised by 2019.

OminousSpudd wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

eridan wrote:That is perfectly in line with what's been announced by russian MoD before.  A small quantity of preserial planes ordered, to develop tactics with and to practice on, before a larger contract (possibly with izd30 engines) is made sometime from 2020 onwards.

We've seen something similar with the T-14 Armata. Ru MOD buys a small batch to try to finds bug before mass production, fixing the problems now before paying for them later. That's the complete opposite approach philosophy then the one practiced by the Pentagon.

It makes sense especially when considering the "5th gen" powerplants promised by 2019.

I thought it was 2018.

AlfaT8 wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

eridan wrote:That is perfectly in line with what's been announced by russian MoD before.  A small quantity of preserial planes ordered, to develop tactics with and to practice on, before a larger contract (possibly with izd30 engines) is made sometime from 2020 onwards.

We've seen something similar with the T-14 Armata. Ru MOD buys a small batch to try to finds bug before mass production, fixing the problems now before paying for them later. That's the complete opposite approach philosophy then the one practiced by the Pentagon.

It makes sense especially when considering the "5th gen" powerplants promised by 2019.

I thought it was 2018.

My bad. Literally one page back too.

Russia Agreed To Share Critical Technologies Of PAK-FA With India

the video says that the indian version of pak fa (pmf) will be integrated with indo-russian supersonic BrahMos cruise missile....would the russian air force will also integrate the missile with its su30 and pak fa fighters?

pushkin wrote:

Russia Agreed To Share Critical Technologies Of PAK-FA With India      

Not really a good idea, however as technology progress, i hope Russia can introduce more improvements to their Own Pak-Fas so any leakage to foreign competitors of some weaknesses that this deal will result to would be nullified

Project Canada wrote:

pushkin wrote:

Russia Agreed To Share Critical Technologies Of PAK-FA With India      

Not really a good idea, however as technology progress, i hope Russia can introduce more improvements to their Own Pak-Fas so any leakage to foreign competitors of some weaknesses that this deal will result to would be nullified

Export is still export, the avionics packages will still be radically different compared to the domestic.

came across a longish writeup on PAK-FA on secretproject

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/04/27/sukhoi-t-50-pak-fa-russia/

Austin wrote:came across a longish writeup on PAK-FA on secretproject

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/04/27/sukhoi-t-50-pak-fa-russia/

 I already posted this, post nr 891

I think the gun of T-50 will fire new 30mm ammunitions with plastic-driving-band and higher heat resistance primes that has just come into services recently. Firing new ammos, the gun muzzle velocity increases ~7% while the gun's combat readiness is 3 times higher. Besides, the new gun can eject completely all empty cartridges in any combat modes (upto 9 g-load?).

Does any one know what is the limited g-load of gun firing on Mig-29 and Su-27 now?

So I've been reading some old threads on other forums & found this vid (presume been posted here before)

And you really gotta say if it can do this on the 'weak' initial engines holy crap what will it be doing on the proper ones

Does any one know what is the limited g-load of gun firing on Mig-29 and Su-27 now?

From memory the only g limit for the early model MiGs was when the centreline fuel tank was fitted and that was a g limit for the tank and not actually the gun.

Both the Flanker and Fulcrum were designed for dog fighting so I would think there was no limitation in firing the gun except when the ferry tank was being used by the MiG... the Flanker has no wet pylons and so could not carry ferry tanks.

the Flanker has no wet pylons and so could not carry ferry tanks

Huh, I knew pics with tanks were very rare, didn't sink in they are actually 0  
It's quite shocking that they have that much range entirely on internal fuel while western planes are hardly ever seen without 2 or 3 huge tanks in any realistic load.

I know I've seen Su-34s carrying a big centerline tank fairly often & Su-33 has the buddy fuelling pod so they must have a wet centerline, what about Su-30sm & Su-35?

hoom wrote:

the Flanker has no wet pylons and so could not carry ferry tanks

Huh, I knew pics with tanks were very rare, didn't sink in they are actually 0  
It's quite shocking that they have that much range entirely on internal fuel while western planes are hardly ever seen without 2 or 3 huge tanks in any realistic load.

I know I've seen Su-34s carrying a big centerline tank fairly often & Su-33 has the buddy fuelling pod so they must have a wet centerline, what about Su-30sm & Su-35?

Su-34 is the only of the Flanker family which can carry external fuel tanks.

It was my understanding that pretty much any Flanker with inflight refuelling probes can carry the buddy refuelling pod and external tanks.

The vast majority of inservice Flankers are Su-27s which generally fly with half their internal tanks empty so external tanks are not even considered important...

GarryB wrote:It was my understanding that pretty much any Flanker with inflight refuelling probes can carry the buddy refuelling pod and external tanks.

The vast majority of inservice Flankers are Su-27s which generally fly with half their internal tanks empty so external tanks are not even considered important...

Aren't the Su-27 family/generation known for their huge gas tanks?