The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

PapaDragon wrote:I completely agree with you here.

But like I sad: long game. You can do it fast, you can do it right but you can't do both.

I would pick doing it right even though it takes time and is not clean and pretty.

Flagship Victory wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:I completely agree with you here.

But like I sad: long game. You can do it fast, you can do it right but you can't do both.

I would pick doing it right even though it takes time and is not clean and pretty.

What's the end game? Ukraine will not collapse economically. Economy is nothing but a number in a digital computer these days. As for debt, Ukraine can simply default. I think Putin is not respecting people's lives. Signs off on Minsk 2 then does not care when putch massacres civilians using 152 mm artillery shells every single day. I don't think this is moral behaviour. How can Putin sleep at night knowing putch commits genocide under Minsk 2? If I were Putin, I wouldn't be able to sleep without having nightmares of all the people killed.

Flagship Victory wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:I completely agree with you here.

But like I sad: long game. You can do it fast, you can do it right but you can't do both.

I would pick doing it right even though it takes time and is not clean and pretty.

What's the end game? Ukraine will not collapse economically. Economy is nothing but a number in a digital computer these days. As for debt, Ukraine can simply default. I think Putin is not respecting people's lives. Signs off on Minsk 2 then does not care when putch massacres civilians using 152 mm artillery shells every single day. I don't think this is moral behaviour. How can Putin sleep at night knowing putch commits genocide under Minsk 2? If I were Putin, I wouldn't be able to sleep without having nightmares of all the people killed.

Flagship Victory wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:I completely agree with you here.

But like I sad: long game. You can do it fast, you can do it right but you can't do both.

I would pick doing it right even though it takes time and is not clean and pretty.

What's the end game? Ukraine will not collapse economically. Economy is nothing but a number in a digital computer these days. As for debt, Ukraine can simply default. I think Putin is not respecting people's lives. Signs off on Minsk 2 then does not care when putch massacres civilians using 152 mm artillery shells every single day. I don't think this is moral behaviour. How can Putin sleep at night knowing putch commits genocide under Minsk 2? If I were Putin, I wouldn't be able to sleep without having nightmares of all the people killed.

Sputnik wrote:Odessa Massacre Perpertrators May Walk Scot-Free After Parliament's Pardon
POLITICS 17:13 18.05.2015(updated 17:55 18.05.2015)

The participants of the Odessa massacre might make a final step towards walking free officially.

IEV (Sputnik) — The bill pardoning those involved in violent clashes and subsequent deadly fire in Odessa on May 2, 2014 was submitted to the Ukrainian parliament Monday, the parliament's press service said.
The text of the draft law has not yet been published, according to the statement.

The initiator of the bill is Ukrainian lawmaker Alexei Goncharenko, who was briefly detained in Russia in March for alleged involvement in Odessa clashes. Continue reading.

The Guardian wrote:Russia Today’s interview on immigrants detention centres in UK faces inquiry
Monday 18 May 2015 11.54 BST

Media watchdog has threatened RT with statutory sanctions after repeated breaches of broadcasting regulations on impartiality

Russia Today is facing a new investigation by media regulator Ofcom over its coverage of detention centres for immigrants in the UK, the regulator’s sixth on-going inquiry into the Kremlin-backed news channel.

The regulator, which threatened Russia Today, or RT, with statutory sanctions after repeated breaches of broadcasting regulations on impartiality last year, opened a new investigation over a broadcast on 27 March this year which included an interview about detention centres for immigrants into the UK.

Ofcom said it was looking to establish if the item on the programme Sophie and Co, presented by Sophie Shevardnadze, was duly impartial following a complaint from a viewer.

RT was called to a meeting with Ofcom last year after four separate reports, all broadcast in March last year and all dealing with the situation in Ukraine, were judged to have breached the code governing UK broadcasters. [url=]Continue reading.[/url]

Obozrevatel via Google Translate wrote:Украина получит такую же помощь, как новые члены ЕС - Климкин
Ukraine will receive the same assistance as the new EU members - Klimkin
May 18, 2015, 17:30

Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin argues that Brussels react positively to the vision of Kiev on what to create a deep and comprehensive free trade area with the EU, Ukraine should be given the same support as the new members of the European Union.

Told Pavlo Klimkin, referring to a meeting with European Commissioner for Trade Cecilia Maelstrom, reports UNIAN .

"We are now trying to explain clearly that the full implementation of the agreement we need tools that resemble in content the instruments that were used in the process of helping the new countries - EU members. The response was generally positive," - said the head of the Foreign Ministry. Continue reading.

Hromadske.tv via Google Translate wrote:хметов зупинив роботу своїх супермаркетів і заправок на окупованій території
Akhmetov stopped the work of the supermarkets and gas stations in the occupied territories
Monday, May 18, 2015

The company "Parallel" Rinat Akhmetov suspend the operation of the network of filling stations in Donetsk and other localities in Donetsk region, which is not controlled by Ukrainian authorities.

This was reported in the press service of the company.

"May 18, including suspend its work 32 filling complexes TM" Parallel "in Donetsk, Makiyivka, Dokuchaevsk, Zuhres, Shahtersk, Yenakiyevo, snow, and Telmanovo Torez. The decision on the termination of filling passed given the current situation: the company now sees able to supply fuel in these cities within current legislation or purchase it on the spot from suppliers registered in Ukraine ", - said in a statement.

According to the director of "Parallels" Helena Hiliyenko company resume their complexes, just see the opportunity within the legal framework and considering the safety of staff.

All employees promise to pay a compensation package that is twice the size of the statutory mandatory payments in such cases. Continue reading.

Podrobnosti via Google Translate wrote:Порошенко обвинил Россию в терроре против крымских татар
Poroshenko accused Russia of terror against the Crimean Tatars
May 18, 2015 15:19 Author: Daniel Evtukhov

In the context of the Russian occupation Crimean Tatar people again suffered from terror and oppression of the Moscow regime. This was stated by President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko.

"The state is the aggressor carries blatant repression. Occur prosecution on trumped-up charges of thousands of activists and ordinary Crimean people", - said Poroshenko.

According to him, under the conditions of an undeclared war Ukraine is trying to enforce the rights of all its citizens, including the Crimean Tatars.

"In this difficult time for everyone, it is important to maintain the unity and determination, which are the key to our victory and future prosperity in the family of democratic European countries. All of us - a single Ukrainian nation," - the president said. Continue reading.

NV via Google Translate wrote:В Харькове снесли бюсты еще двух советских деятелей, а у памятника Александру Невскому отобрали меч
In Kharkov demolished two more busts of Soviet leaders, and at the monument to Alexander Nevsky seized the sword
Today, 15:01



On Monday night, May 18, in Kharkov, unknown activists demolished the busts Felix Dzerzhinsky and Ivan boiler, the Provincial Department of the Interior Ministry reported.

According to the police, between 22:20 and 23:25 Sunday was knocked bust of Felix Dzerzhinsky, who was installed at the stadium Dinamo and Ivan boiler near DC Railway.

In addition, social networks reported that the monument to Alexander Nevsky Street. Pavlov of the sword disappeared. The Interior Ministry of Ukraine in Kharkov region made it clear that the message about the damage the monument Nevsky came to the police on May 17 at 18:00 pm.


This fact made in ERDR, qualified the incident as hooliganism. Who sets the police involved in the damage to the monument.

Note, meanwhile users of social networks from Kharkov most negative perception of the demolition of Soviet activists idols. Continue reading.

5 via Google Translate wrote:СБУ РОЗСЛІДУВАТИМЕ ДЕПОРТАЦІЮ КРИМСЬКИХ ТАТАР ЯК КРИМІНАЛЬНИЙ ЗЛОЧИН ПРОТИ ЛЮДЯНОСТІ
SBU INVESTIGATE THE DEPORTATION OF CRIMEAN TATARS AS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY
15:24 May 18, 2015 | occupation of Crimea

Security Service of Ukraine intends to investigate the deportation of Crimean Tatars as a crime against humanity.

Told the head of the Security Service Valentyn Nalyvaychenko.

According to the head office soon resume the investigation team, which has studied this issue in 2009. Note the following statement SBU head did during the regular transfer of Majlis representatives copies of archival documents of the KGB, which recorded the persecution of Crimean Tatars.

Note that this is the sixth batch of declassified documents which have become public knowledge and illustrate the crimes of the Soviet regime against the indigenous people of Crimea. Continue reading.

Espreso TV via Google Translate wrote:Україна заборонила перевозити товари у Придністров’я
Ukraine has banned carry goods in Transnistria
MAY 18, 2015 17:23

From May 18 through Ukraine banned the movement of excise goods across the border with unrecognized republic of Transdniestria

Resolution of the Government of Ukraine to exclude items Kuchurgan and Platonic Odessa region from the list of those that can be moved through excise goods, effective May 18. Thus the authorities of the unrecognized Transnistria (PMR) deprived of the right to move these products through the land of the Moldovan-Ukrainian border, uncontrolled Chisinau.

According to the customs of the region, restrictions will affect about 70 Transnistrian enterprises, which should see the routes of supply and import them via Moldova.

"The restrictions will affect about 70 Transnistrian enterprises, which will see the supply routes. Losses budget from customs duties forgone in 2015 will exceed $ 20 million.", - Said the deputy head of the Customs Committee of the PMR Svetlana Klimenkova. Continue reading.

Vann7 wrote:................................

Is better to try for peace as much as possible.. than to start a major war that will end in world war 3. with millions killed.  i dont think kiev will have the economy to continue with the war to the end of year.so they will have no chance to continue the war.. even if they want it.

sepheronx wrote:Shouldnt Crimea authorities, tatars and the rest start open video of how their lives really are in Crimea, to finally put an end to Poroshenko's and NATO's BS about it?

Maybe also call out Kiev on their thieft of money from Crimea for 20 years as well as the fact they blocked access to water and electricity?

Man, there is a gold mine of information that can be used to finally shut those idiots in washington and kiev up. But no one is taking it.. sad.

sepheronx wrote:Seems that Novorussians and Russians are not very good with pr and media reporting.

Novorussian authorities can point out how Ukraine is breaking minsk agreements and do so by world news organizations. But they dont. Just a tiny blip in the coloumns.

Godric wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Godric wrote:Putin's biggest mistake was stopping at Crimea .. when the Odessa massacre happened the Red Army should have rolled all the way to Odessa Oblast and annexing the whole of South West Russia back from the Hahols Lenin should never have given sacred Russian land and Russian people to these Russian haters

You are suggesting that Russia should start making same stupid mistakes Kiev has been making for over a year. This is a long war, one fought not only by arms but also by media, diplomacy and money.

Casualties are unfortunate, but this is war and you can't sacrifice core strategic objectives just to soothe your conscience.  

War is extremely dirty business, something a lot of posters here seem to forget, and loosing a war even so you could save or avenge lives of civilians would be disrespectful for the suffering of those civilians (most of whom are still technically Ukrainians since most of them still obediently accept Nazi rule).

Victory will be best vengeance.    

I have a massive problem when it comes to burning people alive and clubbing people to death after they jumped from the building to escape the flames and I also have a problem with the display of Nazi emblems like the WolfsAngel the emblem of the 2nd SS panzer Division Das Reich, SS runes (lightening bands) and Swastikas yet Obama and his hypocritical pals during the Normandy remembrance stated they had to be vigilant and fight fascism yet they back and helped these fascist pigs in Kyiv   to gain power who openly display Nazi emblems and label war criminals as national heroes it's akin to Austria declaring Hitler a national hero

Flagship Victory wrote:Update. Russian government says those 2 captured LPR fighter were Russian special forces but who had quit to defend the people of Donbas. I knew it, Putin has no heart to care for the people of Donbas. He does not say a word even though putch shells Donbas every single day doing genocide. Russian people must, I repeat, must vote out Putin in 2018. Mironov, Zhirinovsky, anyone other than Putin.

VSS Vintorez is not inherited by Ukraine even though it is a late 1980s weapon.

sepheronx wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:Update. Russian government says those 2 captured LPR fighter were Russian special forces but who had quit to defend the people of Donbas. I knew it, Putin has no heart to care for the people of Donbas. He does not say a word even though putch shells Donbas every single day doing genocide. Russian people must, I repeat, must vote out Putin in 2018. Mironov, Zhirinovsky, anyone other than Putin.

VSS Vintorez is not inherited by Ukraine even though it is a late 1980s weapon.

Can you point out to me where you heard they are ex special forces? according to tass, they are ex service men. I may be wrong but I believe they do have vss vintorez. I have seen pics from years ago though.

http://tass.ru/en/russia/795414

Neutrality wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:Update. Russian government says those 2 captured LPR fighter were Russian special forces but who had quit to defend the people of Donbas. I knew it, Putin has no heart to care for the people of Donbas. He does not say a word even though putch shells Donbas every single day doing genocide. Russian people must, I repeat, must vote out Putin in 2018. Mironov, Zhirinovsky, anyone other than Putin.

VSS Vintorez is not inherited by Ukraine even though it is a late 1980s weapon.

Can you stop posting lies for a second? The MOD said the men did have military service (like 99% of all Russian males do). They didn't say they were ex. Special Forces.

Also, can we have some mods in here? Really getting tired to have to filther through garbage in order to read solid information.

franco wrote:The Russian Defense Ministry demanded from Kiev to stop torture and to release former soldiers detained SBU.
   "Captured the SBU in the Luhansk region citizens of Russia Alexander Alexandrov and Yevgeni Yerofeyev at the time of his arrest on May 17 of this year is not an active member of the armed forces of the Russian Federation", - said the " Interfax "the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Major-General Igor Konashenkov.
   . "We checked the information of the Ukrainian side - these guys really previously served in one of the compounds of the Armed Forces and have military training. Moreover, I can confirm that we were approached by the leadership of the Association of veterans of special forces with the request to go through official channels to the General Staff of Ukraine to halt the abuse of their wounded comrades on the part of the SBU in the knockout favorable testimony "- said I.Konashenkov.
   The interlocutor of the agency said that during the civil war in the south-east of Ukraine in the Russian Federation "was repeatedly detained dozens or even hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers and fighters of so-called" territorial "battalions." "And the attitude towards them is fully in line with international standards and provide necessary assistance when they are all in a short time freely to return to their families and relatives," - said I.Konashenkov.
   "We count on the wisdom of the Ukrainian leadership and the imminent release of Alexander Alexandrov Yevgeny Yerofeyev," - said the spokesman of the Defense Ministry.

TASS wrote:Russia's foreign minister: US supports Minsk agreements but interprets them its own way
World May 18, 18:52 UTC+3

The two sides had different understanding of concrete provisions of the Minsk document of February 12 and in concrete tasks facing the working [sub]groups that were set up in Minsk on May 6

MOSCOW, May 18. /TASS/. The United States fully supports the implementation of the Minsk agreements on Ukraine but seeks to interpret them its own way, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said in an interview with the Rossiiskaya Gazeta daily posted on its website on Monday.

"The essence of our conversation [with US Secretary of State John Kerry in Sochi on May 12] was to find some common denominators," the minister said. "I’d say it did not take long to do that because both Russia and the United States support full and comprehensive implementation of the Minsk agreements. But, as it often happens, the devil is in the detail - in the concrete provisions of the Minsk document of February 12, in concrete tasks facing the working [sub]groups that were set up in Minsk on May 6. And here, we had different understanding of concrete tasks."

"Having spent so much time and effort of the four countries’ numbers one in Minsk on February 12, we proceeded from the necessity of strict following the sequence of actions that was committed to paper in the Minsk package of measures on the implementation of settlement tasks," Lavrov stressed. "Actually, not merely the sequence but also the essence of corresponding agreements."

The Americans, according to the Russian foreign minister, have "somewhat different interpretation of those documents, although these documents are absolutely unambiguous about the right things agreed with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, agreed with his representatives in the Contact Group."

"As a matter of fact, there is nothing to debate about," Lavrov underscored. Continue reading.

The Guardian wrote:Two Russian soldiers captured near rebel-controlled Luhansk, says Ukraine
Monday 18 May 2015 01.34 BST

Ukrainian MP posts video purporting to show a Russian special forces sergeant lying in a hospital bed admitting to operating in the area

Two Russian soldiers captured while fighting in war-torn eastern Ukraine are being transported to the capital, Kiev, a Ukrainian military spokesman has said.

The Russians were wounded and taken prisoner near the frontline town of Shchastia in the Luhansk region on Sunday, Ukrainian officials reported.

Russia-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine have been fighting government troops for a year, and Moscow has vehemently denied it is supplying them either with weaponry or troops. When several Russian soldiers were captured on Ukrainian territory last summer, the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, said they had simply got lost.

Asked about the new reports on Monday, Putin’s spokesman again denied any Russian involvement. “We have said repeatedly that there are no Russian troops in Donbass,” Dmitry Peskov said, referring to eastern Ukraine.

The separatist mouthpiece Luhansk Information Center said on Sunday the men identified by Ukraine as Russian officers were in fact two policemen from Luhansk who had been taken prisoner near Shchastia.

Vladislav Seleznev, spokesman for the Ukrainian general staff, said on Monday the two men were being questioned by the Ukrainian security service and were on their way to Kiev where they would face the media. Continue reading.

USA Today wrote:Donetsk has become eastern Ukraine's lawless city
Sheren Khalel and Matthew Vickery, Special for USA TODAY 10:24 a.m. EDT May 18, 2015

DONETSK, Ukraine — This once-booming industrial city of 1 million is now largely a lawless and lifeless center of eastern Ukraine's separatist movement, where residents live under constant threat from marauding militias.

Although pro-Russian separatists and the Ukrainian armed forces agreed to a cease-fire last February, the sounds of artillery fire and shelling have never ceased to echo through the war-torn city. The fighting has slowed, but not stopped.

For the past year, Russian-backed separatists have controlled the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DNR). Most stores have shut down, and only a few restaurants remain open, filled mainly with young separatist militia fighters in dark green fatigues who rampage through the city as if it were their own playground, civilian residents say. Continue reading.

The New York Times wrote:In Ukraine, Corruption Concerns Linger a Year After a Revolution
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORNMAY 17, 2015

KIEV, Ukraine — The country is on the cliff of bankruptcy. A spate of politically motivated killings and mysterious suicides of former government officials has sown fear in the capital. Infighting has begun to splinter the pro-European majority coalition in Parliament. And a constant threat of war lingers along the Russian border.

A year after the election of Petro O. Poroshenko as president to replace the ousted Viktor F. Yanukovych, and six months after the swearing in of a new legislature, Ukraine remains deeply mired in political and economic chaos.

“Poroshenko, whether you like him or not, he’s not delivering,” said Bruce P. Jackson, the president of the Project on Transitional Democracies, an American nonprofit group. “The Ukrainian government is so weak and fragile that it is too weak to do the necessary things to build a unified and independent state.”

Efforts to forge a political settlement between the government in Kiev and Russian-backed separatists who control much of the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk have hit a deadlock over procedural disputes, despite a cease-fire in February calling for decentralization of power and greater local autonomy as the linchpins of a long-term accord. Continue reading.

Леонид Маслов wrote:Beetle soldier captured Russian tourists

sepheronx wrote:Hmm, they got caught too easily if they are ex gru. Standards dropped?

Anyway, hopefully they are returned. They will probably ask for their pilot back. At that point, why not.

Not very good for Russias sake or reputation of their special forces.

sepheronx wrote:That USA today article is shit. Why bother posting it? They dont even have Western media in donetsk.