The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

sepheronx wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:International Volunteers Arrive in Eastern Ukraine

Lugansk....

So people flying in from around the world to fight for Novorussia, are going to Lugansk eh?  Hmm.  Well, more manpower is good but if the rumors are true about mafia rule and what not, I think they are far better off in Donetsk.

Is it possible that people Lugansk and Donetsk have a difference in ideology?? i.e. Communist versus ?

PapaDragon wrote:

sepheronx wrote:...................................

Possibly so, but you are telling me that there are those in Lugansk, Novorussia, that are sided with Kiev or talking with Kiev?  That they would be willing to risk that they communicated with Kiev Junta forces to have one of their own killed?  I think that would be even worst than if they killed him off themselves, as they could make any excuse.

Don't know much about local issues in Lugansk but rules are same everywhere: if some local idiot was either working with Kiev or had personal beef with Mozgovoi or was doing his own thing, it does not matter, they will not be able to cover themselves from backlash especially if their BS affected overall game plan (which I guess it most certainly did in this case).

Remember Batman (Bednov)?  He also had a habit of doing his own thing (in opposite direction, in his case) until his BS started seriously affecting coordinated war effort (just before big ops in Debaltsevo).

And then some very tacticool dudes showed up and, boom, no more Batman.

Tacticool? Nope they just ambushed him while on light escort.

Being reported that a car containing Russian officers from the Joint Center for Control and Coordination has been fired at by ukrops near Maiorsk just north of Gorlovka. Earlier it was reported about heavy fire at Dzerzhinsk so perhaps they were investigating.
http://russian.rt.com/article/93413

Also reported that a person in ukrops uniform has been caught and is suspected of being involved in the attack on Mozgovoi. I'm not believing this.

PapaDragon wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

sepheronx wrote:...................................

Possibly so, but you are telling me that there are those in Lugansk, Novorussia, that are sided with Kiev or talking with Kiev?  That they would be willing to risk that they communicated with Kiev Junta forces to have one of their own killed?  I think that would be even worst than if they killed him off themselves, as they could make any excuse.

Don't know much about local issues in Lugansk but rules are same everywhere: if some local idiot was either working with Kiev or had personal beef with Mozgovoi or was doing his own thing, it does not matter, they will not be able to cover themselves from backlash especially if their BS affected overall game plan (which I guess it most certainly did in this case).

Remember Batman (Bednov)?  He also had a habit of doing his own thing (in opposite direction, in his case) until his BS started seriously affecting coordinated war effort (just before big ops in Debaltsevo).

And then some very tacticool dudes showed up and, boom, no more Batman.

So who do you think snuffed off Bednov? Same guys who snuffed off Mozgovoi?

Why wouldn't the Lugansk people want to hold a parade in Lugansk for victory day?  Turnout was huge!

I don't know, like I said, I am not too familiar with local issues in Lugansk. But if it was locals that did this, odds are good they will be joining him before too long.

----------------------------------------------

In the meantime Ukraine moves toward the bright European future


No Money for Bribes? Kiev Police Now Accept Vodka

Meet the new Ukraine, same as the old Ukraine

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/no-money-bribes-kiev-police-now-accept-vodka/ri7158

Bribing police isn’t a phenomenon unique to Ukraine — a similar custom can be found here in Russia. But this is the first time we’ve seen video footage of an unlucky motorist using vodka as a bargaining chip. Sure, why not? Probably more valuable than hryvnias…

I didn't intend to cut off your post

Khepesh wrote:Being reported that a car containing Russian officers from the Joint Center for Control and Coordination has been fired at by ukrops near Maiorsk just north of Gorlovka. Earlier it was reported about heavy fire at Dzerzhinsk so perhaps they were investigating.
http://russian.rt.com/article/93413

Also reported that a person in ukrops uniform has been caught and is suspected of being involved in the attack on Mozgovoi. I'm not believing this.

It's getting crazier.

Press release about assassination of Mozgovoi and his body guards. The fact that Rossiya TV is reporting on this is indication Putin takes this very seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U1Th1PUrPE

Cowboy's daughter wrote:


https://vk.com/wall253255659_23

And he had Porkie as the number 6th or 9th most corrupt.

So as a Texas cowgirl, familiar with your own battle for independence from Mexico and with the new movie about it to come out. Does the situation in Donbas seem similar to you? It has always struck me as being very much so and I use it to explain the situation to curious Americans.

sepheronx wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out

Why are you still here?  If you hate Russian's so much.

Not really a good thing that Mafia type rule in Lugansk killing their own.

he is gone

Russian Patriot wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out

Why are you still here?  If you hate Russian's so much.

Not really a good thing that Mafia type rule in Lugansk killing their own.

he is  gone

Thanks!

He got banned? Naah there's oly our friend divock remaining now.

KyivPost claims Mozgovoi was assassinated because he was against the ceasefire. Interesting but not sure if credible.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/russian-backed-military-commander-assassinated-after-speaking-out-against-cease-fire-389345.html

KoTeMoRe wrote:He got banned? Naah there's oly our friend divock remaining now.

as long as they are civil about it they stay. .. etaepsilonk was trolling however - RP

Cowboy's daughter wrote:.....................................

I didn't intend to cut off your post

No problem buddy!

Russian Patriot wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:He got banned? Naah there's oly our friend divock remaining now.

as long  as  they  are civil  about it  they stay. .. etaepsilonk  was trolling  however - RP

Of course he was, he's a lowbob and like a good jihadi, he wanted to wanted to go illallah. Oh well at least you offed him in silence. No tears will be shed.

Flagship Victory wrote:Press release about assassination of Mozgovoi and his body guards. The fact that Rossiya TV is reporting on this is indication Putin takes this very seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U1Th1PUrPE

Yeah sure.

franco wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:


https://vk.com/wall253255659_23

And he had Porkie as the number 6th or 9th most corrupt.

So as a Texas cowgirl, familiar with your own battle for independence from Mexico and with the new movie about it to come out. Does the situation in Donbas seem similar to you? It has always struck me as being very much so and I use it to explain the situation to curious Americans.  

So far it reminds me of the Civil War in the USA.

German General Carl Schurz Begins His Investigation of the Post-War South

http://www.longislandwins.com/columns/detail/german_general_carl_schurz_begins_his_invetigation_of_the_post_war_south



These buildings in Richmond were burned when retreating Confederates set fire to warehouses in the city during the last week of the war in Virginia. The fires soon engulfed whole city blocks.



Southern transportation infrastructure was a particular target of destruction for Union soldiers. The railroad depot in Charleston was burned.

but yes, it's like Texas Independence also...


Clashes, tires on fire outside Ukrainian parliament in Kiev

http://rt.com/news/260905-clashes-fire-kiev-protest/

This could be traitors inside Lugansk Separatist.. could be anyone.. Givi also there was an attempt to assasination on him.. IF i were to bet.. OSCE is the more likely infiltrated by rats
they were caught already trying to install a hidden camera in rebels zone.. But it could be journalist.. or civilians NGOs.. and ban on traveling in cars should be impossed and everyone use public transport ...with credited drivers.. who inspect every passenger..

but yes, it's like Texas Independence also...


-Sloviansk becomes the Alamo, a siege at the border town that allows the rest of Texas to get organized and ready.
-Strelkov gets to play Bowie, an American military leader.
-And the American volunteers flooding in to assist their American Texans in their fight against a government that was becoming increasingly centralized and brutal.

May he rest in piece. The true voice of reason. A great  warrior, an honest politician and  a brilliant ideologue.  A true socialist and patriot who didn't fight for petty racial, nationalist or religious reasons like Strelkov or any right winger. He never  gave up trying to tried to forge  a bridge and reconcilliation with the western ukrainians who he rightfully regarded as slavic brothers who were tragically  duped and  fooled by neoliberalism, instead of anatagonising them unlike certain right wingers.

He wasn't afraid to point out the problems of his own side and wanted true cooperation between the government and people. He was the only novorossiyan who questioned allegiance to the russian neoliberal fashist oligarchs and rightfully warned of the inevitable degradation and  exploitation by the capitalist elite regardless of each side.



Those who are unable to remain silent, even when it is more convenient to do so, are not destined to remain long time between the living in these times of deceit and betrayal in a capitalist oligarchic heartless world.

franco wrote:but yes, it's like Texas Independence also...


-Sloviansk becomes the Alamo, a siege at the border town that allows the rest of Texas to get organized and ready.
-Strelkov gets to play Bowie, an American military leader.
-And the American volunteers flooding in to assist their American Texans in their fight against a government that was becoming increasingly centralized and brutal.  

Very good comparison!

Visiting the Alamo is like a Texan's religious pilgrimage, seriously!

Sad to hear about Mozgovoi's death....may he RIP.

I didn't agree with some of his actions, like openly defying the LPR authorities, but I think he was true patriot and had his units best interests at heart.

sepheronx wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

sepheronx wrote:..................................................

Who knows but this is definitely not a good sign for Lugansk.  Even if Mozgovoi can be replaced by someone else (always the case, a leader of squad or units are always replaced), he will be missed and a person of high respect gone could create moral issues.  Now mind you, someone even more harsher could come in as replacement.  At same time, Lugansk cannot have such issues in their territory as it could create a mess internally, and or give Kiev the ability to take advantage of such a situation.  They need to strengthen their border lines, continue with infiltration and continue building up defenses.  But most importantly, they need to unite with Donetsk and create a proper economy.

Humans are expendable and replaceable, and like you said, with someone harsher (as in someone who will be more "proactive" with enforcing his point of view). While from now on Mozgovoi will be a symbol and folk-hero.

If locals had him killed then they also managed to sign their own death certificates. This was pre-internet move that does not fly in era of internet.

BS like this does not stay hidden in this day and age.

Remember Nemtzov case? Those that "pulled" that off also thought that they are very smart  and elegant - and then they realized that they weren't.      

Possibly so, but you are telling me that there are those in Lugansk, Novorussia, that are sided with Kiev or talking with Kiev?  That they would be willing to risk that they communicated with Kiev Junta forces to have one of their own killed?  I think that would be even worst than if they killed him off themselves, as they could make any excuse.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out

Why are you still here?  If you hate Russian's so much.

Not really a good thing that Mafia type rule in Lugansk killing their own.

They didn't kill him. They let him get killed. Chechnya redux.

How do we know that they let him get killed rather than their own men killing him?  Cause they knew where he was, and if he has powerful people in Lugansk (oligarches) that are wanting him dead, they can hire their own.  Rather than risking Ukrainian troops to kill him and his crew, and then attempting further operations in Lugansk.  Because we all know that Lugansk is also enemy to Kiev and Rada.

Because it's easier to glorify him and shed crocodile tears. Helps also the war party continuating its magic. Sacrificial lamb etc. Plus with Ukrops doeing the job, this gives a little peremoga to Ukropistanis and makes them ready for the probabaly asswhopping they're going to receive.

It sounds conspirational, but this is my firm opinion.

So what you are saying is that this could be considered as an attempt by certain people in Lugansk to kick off a conflict with Kiev or to give excuses for more, harder troops at border areas and to push up for more funding for troops?

Nope what I believe is that people in the LPR with or without Kremlin approval, have sold Mozgovoi in order to keep this going the way it is going. Slow burning conflict with nobodies on both sides killing each other. It's cynicism and lies. Mozgovoi was open about who, what, when. He said many things some of our hardcore "meha patrioti" deny even today. He decried the fact that Russia opened a wide front along the Azov sea, but did nothing to relieve Luhansk. It had no issues sending troops and supplies towards Donetsk and made sure those would get to politically sure people, disregarding the actual fighting capabilities and skill of those people. That's what most guys have said so far. People wanted an army, while NVRS needs fighting forces, in any kind and shape.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

sepheronx wrote:..................................................

Who knows but this is definitely not a good sign for Lugansk.  Even if Mozgovoi can be replaced by someone else (always the case, a leader of squad or units are always replaced), he will be missed and a person of high respect gone could create moral issues.  Now mind you, someone even more harsher could come in as replacement.  At same time, Lugansk cannot have such issues in their territory as it could create a mess internally, and or give Kiev the ability to take advantage of such a situation.  They need to strengthen their border lines, continue with infiltration and continue building up defenses.  But most importantly, they need to unite with Donetsk and create a proper economy.

Humans are expendable and replaceable, and like you said, with someone harsher (as in someone who will be more "proactive" with enforcing his point of view). While from now on Mozgovoi will be a symbol and folk-hero.

If locals had him killed then they also managed to sign their own death certificates. This was pre-internet move that does not fly in era of internet.

BS like this does not stay hidden in this day and age.

Remember Nemtzov case? Those that "pulled" that off also thought that they are very smart  and elegant - and then they realized that they weren't.      

Possibly so, but you are telling me that there are those in Lugansk, Novorussia, that are sided with Kiev or talking with Kiev?  That they would be willing to risk that they communicated with Kiev Junta forces to have one of their own killed?  I think that would be even worst than if they killed him off themselves, as they could make any excuse.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out

Why are you still here?  If you hate Russian's so much.

Not really a good thing that Mafia type rule in Lugansk killing their own.

They didn't kill him. They let him get killed. Chechnya redux.

How do we know that they let him get killed rather than their own men killing him?  Cause they knew where he was, and if he has powerful people in Lugansk (oligarches) that are wanting him dead, they can hire their own.  Rather than risking Ukrainian troops to kill him and his crew, and then attempting further operations in Lugansk.  Because we all know that Lugansk is also enemy to Kiev and Rada.

Because it's easier to glorify him and shed crocodile tears. Helps also the war party continuating its magic. Sacrificial lamb etc. Plus with Ukrops doeing the job, this gives a little peremoga to Ukropistanis and makes them ready for the probabaly asswhopping they're going to receive.

It sounds conspirational, but this is my firm opinion.

So what you are saying is that this could be considered as an attempt by certain people in Lugansk to kick off a conflict with Kiev or to give excuses for more, harder troops at border areas and to push up for more funding for troops?

Nope what I believe is that people in the LPR with or without Kremlin approval, have sold Mozgovoi in order to keep this going the way it is going. Slow burning conflict with nobodies on both sides killing each other. It's cynicism and lies. Mozgovoi was open about who, what, when. He said many things some of our hardcore "meha patrioti" deny even today. He decried the fact that Russia opened a wide front along the Azov sea, but did nothing to relieve Luhansk. It had no issues sending troops and supplies towards Donetsk and made sure those would get to politically sure people, disregarding the actual fighting capabilities and skill of those people. That's what most guys have said so far. People wanted an army, while NVRS needs fighting forces, in any kind and shape.

A little odd when there are videos/photos of BPM-97 being used in Lugansk and same thing with possibility of Pantsir systems, which is something that Donetsk could seriously use. I see plenty of really nice equipment in Lugansk soldiers hands as well. so they clearly are not hurting for equipment.

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

sepheronx wrote:..................................................

Who knows but this is definitely not a good sign for Lugansk.  Even if Mozgovoi can be replaced by someone else (always the case, a leader of squad or units are always replaced), he will be missed and a person of high respect gone could create moral issues.  Now mind you, someone even more harsher could come in as replacement.  At same time, Lugansk cannot have such issues in their territory as it could create a mess internally, and or give Kiev the ability to take advantage of such a situation.  They need to strengthen their border lines, continue with infiltration and continue building up defenses.  But most importantly, they need to unite with Donetsk and create a proper economy.

Humans are expendable and replaceable, and like you said, with someone harsher (as in someone who will be more "proactive" with enforcing his point of view). While from now on Mozgovoi will be a symbol and folk-hero.

If locals had him killed then they also managed to sign their own death certificates. This was pre-internet move that does not fly in era of internet.

BS like this does not stay hidden in this day and age.

Remember Nemtzov case? Those that "pulled" that off also thought that they are very smart  and elegant - and then they realized that they weren't.      

Possibly so, but you are telling me that there are those in Lugansk, Novorussia, that are sided with Kiev or talking with Kiev?  That they would be willing to risk that they communicated with Kiev Junta forces to have one of their own killed?  I think that would be even worst than if they killed him off themselves, as they could make any excuse.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out

Why are you still here?  If you hate Russian's so much.

Not really a good thing that Mafia type rule in Lugansk killing their own.

They didn't kill him. They let him get killed. Chechnya redux.

How do we know that they let him get killed rather than their own men killing him?  Cause they knew where he was, and if he has powerful people in Lugansk (oligarches) that are wanting him dead, they can hire their own.  Rather than risking Ukrainian troops to kill him and his crew, and then attempting further operations in Lugansk.  Because we all know that Lugansk is also enemy to Kiev and Rada.

Because it's easier to glorify him and shed crocodile tears. Helps also the war party continuating its magic. Sacrificial lamb etc. Plus with Ukrops doeing the job, this gives a little peremoga to Ukropistanis and makes them ready for the probabaly asswhopping they're going to receive.

It sounds conspirational, but this is my firm opinion.

So what you are saying is that this could be considered as an attempt by certain people in Lugansk to kick off a conflict with Kiev or to give excuses for more, harder troops at border areas and to push up for more funding for troops?

Nope what I believe is that people in the LPR with or without Kremlin approval, have sold Mozgovoi in order to keep this going the way it is going. Slow burning conflict with nobodies on both sides killing each other. It's cynicism and lies. Mozgovoi was open about who, what, when. He said many things some of our hardcore "meha patrioti" deny even today. He decried the fact that Russia opened a wide front along the Azov sea, but did nothing to relieve Luhansk. It had no issues sending troops and supplies towards Donetsk and made sure those would get to politically sure people, disregarding the actual fighting capabilities and skill of those people. That's what most guys have said so far. People wanted an army, while NVRS needs fighting forces, in any kind and shape.

A little odd when there are videos/photos of BPM-97 being used in Lugansk and same thing with possibility of Pantsir systems, which is something that Donetsk could seriously use.  I see plenty of really nice equipment in Lugansk soldiers hands as well.  so they clearly are not hurting for equipment.

Yet the Frontline in the Luhansk Area hasn't moved a bit.