MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

i think the targeting pod is 101KS

It certainly looks very good, I suspect most of the avionics that will be fitted will be first generation equipment intended for the light 5th gen fighter. It means they can work out the bugs and improve performance and test well before the Pak Light is ready.

I would be far more interested if they where able to put in a more powerful hybrid radar or an AESA radar in the MiG-29M. Would really increase performance of the aircraft significantly.

AESAs are expensive... if anyone wants to spend that on a Mig-29M then they should buy a Mig-35.

Umm... MiG-35? I can't see any MiG-35s there, ARZ is an in-service aircraft repair plant anyway.

On another note: Syrian MiG-29M/M2 airframes to be used for other contracts? The article implies they can either be used to build the 16 SMTs for VVS ( very unlikely imo, there must be some misunderstanding- i don't think you can make a SMT out of an M, why would you anyway, it's not logical - unless they order these instead of SMTs, or order them alongside) and/or to deliver 6 to Serbia (any reliable info whether Serbia ordered 6 M/M2 or not?). Syria is still slated to receive 12 in 2016-2017. If i'm correct the syrian contract was for 12 with another 12 option, considering they were supposed to be delivered in 2012 and that we saw at least several M/M2 practically finished, most of not all are probably already finished? This would mean that after they find a buyer for these 12, they will probably build another 12 to fulfill the syrian contract imo. Anyone with more insightful knowledge about these MiGs and the plans for them? Viktor?  

http://www.armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2014/0217/102522665/detail.shtml

Your guess is as good as mine here. I doubt that Serbs will buy only 6 Mig-29 considering those are supposed to be just a part of an larger deal including S-300, Pancir, radar etc.

On the other hand I was surprised when Russian officials started to reffer to MIG-35 and Mig-29M/M2  as one and the same planes but with different equipment and now we have even

newly build Mig-29SMT so Im out as anything can happen from now on   

We have Egypt, Serbia, Iraq as most discussed buyers and statement from Mig that it intends to double its production. There can be no conclusion here but I think we wont wait for long.

Thanks for your input Viktor. I was thinking about the increase in production at RSK MiG to 30 aircraft by 2017, if i'm not mistaken both KnAAZ and Irkut are reaching close or even above that level already (KnAAZ is working on Su-35S and Su-30M2 for VVS, plus export Su-30MK2s for Vietnam and possibly Uganda- IAPO is working on Su-30SM for VVS and VMF plus MKIs for India, not to mention Yak-130s for VVS  and export)

Right now RSK MiG is working on the indian K/KUB and VMF KR/KUBR, if they said they will deliver 10 KR/KUBR to VMF in 2014, plus perhaps several SMTs ( maybe 4?) then that probably mean they will deliver about 10 to India- how many of the MiG-29K/KUBs of the second indian contract remain to be delivered? (this discounting for the moment the M/M2s)

I know, but take a note that Russian weapons production capacity is increasing at staggering rate.

This was an 2008 article mentioning huge increase in production capacity (which was of course necessary given 2008 numbers )

Russia to double production of conventional weapons by 2015

but even those numbers (mentioned in the article and great from 2008 perspective) seen from 2014 perspective are long gone and by 2015 will be much bigger.

During 2014 alone Russian AF will get 100+ new planes and 100+ new helicopters + unknown yet huge numbers of modernized planes and helicopters.

So because of it, it is impossible to speak about something which is growing at unknown but surely much bigger than anticipated rate. Now that production for AF is settled

and numbers are already huge and growing I cant wait to see and witness huge boost and kick in the production of air defense systems in 2016 (although some would argue that

production of air defense systems has kicked in with arrival of year 2014 ) and weapons for Army by 2016.

TR1 wrote:http://russianplanes.net/id128398

Nice pic (but fugly paint), shows 9-12s still going strong!

Another reason I think people are underestimating the size of the MiG-29 legacy fleet in service. It is clearly not down to sub 100 airframes.

but is it really at over 200 *active* airframes as some sources insist? (like warfare.be) is the truth somewhere in the middle?

Yo everyone.

I'm currently making a spreadsheet to basically estimate combat range of various light-medium fighters and this includes MiG-29's

One problem is that  I lacked data on latest variant of the MiG's like the MiG-29M2 (Izdelye 9.67) and M (Izdelye 9.61) And MiG-29SMT (Izdelye 9.18) My Source is Midland's "Famous Russian Aircraft MiG-29" Oh in case you guys wondering about the page..MiG-29 specifications are listed in page :

378-380 With latest MiG version (except MiG-35) In page 380.

All i know about those variants are that they're shared 90% Commonality with the latest MiG-29K's Except that the MiG-29K's might be heavier due to need to withstand sea environment. Nonetheless i'm only have empty weight for MiG-29K (12400 Kg) With internal fuel load of 5200 Kg.

baseline Izdelye 9.12 However have empty weight of 10900 Kg.

Page 194 However gave figure that MiG-29M family will be 800 Kg lighter compared to MiG-29K Thus if this 800 Kg is related to empty weight
It would be around 11600 Kg. While the SMT (Iz 9.18) Won't be far off the baseline 9.12 (That 10900 Kg) Or perhaps slightly less due to use of lighter zhuk radar.

What do you guys think of my estimate ? Quite reasonable or someone can give me better value   

Another thing is the TSFC (Thrust Specific Fuel Consumption) Of the RD-33 family. According to midland book.. It's around 0.77 without afterburner and 2 for afterburner in Sea level. Later variant however the RD-33 SrS-3 claim reduced afterburner TSFC of 1.9 BUT no figure for cruise SFC. Is the SFC value for the cruise would be the same for other RD-33 or any better value.

For my spreadsheet However i use that 0.77 as SLS for the MiG-29M2 and that 1.9.


I wonder if someone can also give a good value of it :3 ?

Thanks a lot

Here is a Mock up of Mig 29 that might be inside DOD' statistics of success.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=641684962545995&set=a.262639263783902.58146.262618733785955&type=1&permPage=1


Obviously, the hype celebrated the high effectiveness of US hardwares, and US pilots. However, and fortunetly, the reality was completly different.
If Serbia wanted to resist to US in 1999, the history's issue would be completly different. Serbian's army had good potential in order to inflict one of the worst US defeat in US history. Serbians are very cleaver.
But President Milosevic decided to surrender, prefering relying on US promesses. President Milosevic won only humiliation, and defeat as Saddam's fate.


PS: For me the Mig 29, was one of the best fighters in the world, if not the best, in very competentent pilot's hands, it does not exist an aircraft able to beat it. None in the Nato's arsenal.

The Mig-29 was an excellent aircraft for its time, and with several upgrades or current models like the Mig-29M2 or Mig-29K2 it is still a very capable aircraft.

The Mig-35 will take it even further forward and would be an ideal new fighter for a smaller nation that is not allowed an F-35 or other 5th gen fighter.

GarryB wrote:
The Mig-35 will take it even further forward and would be an ideal new fighter for a smaller nation that is not allowed an F-35 or other 5th gen fighter.

Few words about this shit of F-35.
It is not me, but the conclusion of one the best western independant think tank, not linked to any coorporations, or any lobbies.
As Carlo Koop, from http://www.ausairpower.net/ the F-35 is useless against the new generation of russian/chinese fighters. According to him, the only one fighter that could be capable to defeat russian/chinese air defense is the F-22 Raptor.
The B2 is able to defeat russian and chinese air defense too.
It is worth to take a look in his conclusions.

Careful... the B-2 can be shot down by a Mig-21 if he can get within visual range... and there are how many B-2s?

Well regardless how good the aircraft looks to the engineers that design them or testpilot that fly them.. General people tend only look at how many stuff that very aircraft destroyed/shoot down.

Stealthflanker wrote:Well regardless how good the aircraft looks to the engineers that design them or testpilot that fly them.. General people tend only look at how many stuff that very aircraft destroyed/shoot down.

and thats why the general public only get to pay taxes for these toys   
K/D is overrated anyway- id rather have 1:1 exchange with the best than 150:0 w/ n00bs.

I am not sure where I stand, it is an incredible aircraft but it never faces the right opponent.  In Serbia, NATO had complete AWACs control so they could shoot at will before a pilot even knows what is coming.  In Africa, it was facing off against its bigger cousin with better trained pilots.   By the time MiG-35 comes the West will be full of stealth fighters and AESA equipped Eurocanards, I just don't see it keeping up... it never did.  The future is PAK FA and i fear building any other airframe is going backwards.

Vladimir79 wrote:I am not sure where I stand, it is an incredible aircraft but it never faces the right opponent.  In Serbia, NATO had complete AWACs control so they could shoot at will before a pilot even knows what is coming.  In Africa, it was facing off against its bigger cousin with better trained pilots.   By the time MiG-35 comes the West will be full of stealth fighters and AESA equipped Eurocanards, I just don't see it keeping up... it never did.  The future is PAK FA and i fear building any other airframe is going backwards.

I strongly disagree, the reality with low-observable stealth planes is that unless your the size of the B-2 bomber you can still be seen with low-frequency radars at a far range, and most stealth planes can still be seen with FLIR optical trackers, and most stealth planes aren't as stealthy at all angles when it comes to radar transmission returns, and stealth planes are better suited for the air-superiority roll than they are with the ground attack role due to the fact that the stealth edge is lost when you need several hard-points to be effective at the ground attack role (just look how many hard-points the Su-25 has). The Pak-Fa will be a very effective multi-role aircraft, however it will probably mostly be dedicated for air-superiority and Mig-35's, Su-35's will be better suited for ground attack as well as a secondary air-superiority back up role. Mig-25's, Mig-31's, and Mig-41's will be playing and additional support role by flying fast and high acting as reconnaissance scouts for the Pak-Fa's, as well as firing the R-37 BVR missiles destroying the enemies AWACS for the purpose of blinding the opposing force's fighter jets. BTW the majority of stealth fighters in the west will be F-35's, a fighter that's o.k. at everything but not great at anything, expensive, and most likely will be a hangar queen, and on top of it all the F-35's secret blueprints and designs were comprised by Chinese electronic warfare:

The real problem for the Mig-29 was that its surprise of High off boresight missiles and helmet mounted cuing system was revealed to the west before they ever got to face it in real combat.

this meant they had years to practise with the west German Mig-29s to learn how to fight it in capable hands... they learned its strengths and its weaknesses.

The real point however is that NATO has never fought anything but downgraded export model Mig-29s and the planes they fought would not get flight clearance in a western air force that was not at war and was desperate.

There is no European 5th gen fighter... both western 5th gen fighters are American which suggests to me that European 4th gen fighters will continue in operation for quite some time... and that means to me there is room for a Mig-35 which will be a stepping stone to the 5th gen light fighter program and aircraft.

the Mig-35 will be every bit as good as anything from Europe and with up to date weapons for new 5th gen fighters with multi sensor targeting systems... ie IIR and ARH and ARM guidance stealth planes wont remain so stealthy... besides there are plenty of very important aircraft that still need to be used like troop transports and tankers and AWACS aircraft that will never be stealthy and are worth shooting down.

Even in peace time you have to patrol your airspace and stealth is overkill and letting enemy recon aircraft get close to your top secret expensive planes risks letting secrets be revealed... instead of sending up PAK FAs... send up Mig-35s and have the PAK FAs in the area to assist if needed....

GarryB wrote:The real problem for the Mig-29 was that its surprise of High off boresight missiles and helmet mounted cuing system was revealed to the west before they ever got to face it in real combat.

this meant they had years to practise with the west German Mig-29s to learn how to fight it in capable hands... they learned its strengths and its weaknesses.

The real point however is that NATO has never fought anything but downgraded export model Mig-29s and the planes they fought would not get flight clearance in a western air force that was not at war and was desperate.

There is no European 5th gen fighter... both western 5th gen fighters are American which suggests to me that European 4th gen fighters will continue in operation for quite some time... and that means to me there is room for a Mig-35 which will be a stepping stone to the 5th gen light fighter program and aircraft.

the Mig-35 will be every bit as good as anything from Europe and with up to date weapons for new 5th gen fighters with multi sensor targeting systems... ie IIR and ARH and ARM guidance stealth planes wont remain so stealthy... besides there are plenty of very important aircraft that still need to be used like troop transports and tankers and AWACS aircraft that will never be stealthy and are worth shooting down.

Even in peace time you have to patrol your airspace and stealth is overkill and letting enemy recon aircraft get close to your top secret expensive planes risks letting secrets be revealed... instead of sending up PAK FAs... send up Mig-35s and have the PAK FAs in the area to assist if needed....

When the Mig-35 is ready it's also most likely going to be fitted with 3-D TVC nozzles on it's engines, giving it a clear dog-fighting advantage over every mass produced planes in the future outside of the Su-35, and the Pak-Fa.

Apparently contract for 16 MIG-29SMT signed   

The Russian Defense Ministry signed a contract for the purchase of VVS fighters MiG-29 SMT

Viktor wrote:Apparently contract for 16 MIG-29SMT signed   

The Russian Defense Ministry signed a contract for the purchase of VVS fighters MiG-29 SMT

New series production or upgrade of serial aircraft?

Supposedly new, but the fact that they are calling them SMT makes it weird.

Not sure why they could not just buy MiG-29M.

Vympel wrote:

Viktor wrote:Apparently contract for 16 MIG-29SMT signed   

The Russian Defense Ministry signed a contract for the purchase of VVS fighters MiG-29 SMT

New series production or upgrade of serial aircraft?

I think those are the new ones but TR1 might know more.

SMT is a modernization I know but still I think we are talking about new airframes in which case more accurate name would be MiG-29M/M2

MiG-29M and MiG-29SMT have totally different airframes- the M is the "new-gen" platform that K/KUB/35 are all based on.
MiG-29SMT could certainly be new build (or using a never completed or stored legacy airframe) but the rumor was they were out of first-gen airframes, while the only 100% new airframes built in many years by MiG are the 2nd gen MiG-29M variants (like for India, the K is an M, not vanilla derivative).

So it is weird if they are buying new build SMT, though all information points to the airframes being new. They are talking about potentially 16 more, so it seems pretty unlikely there are 32 airframes left over from USSR/90s period still in the shop.
The MiG-29M avionics suit is essentially the same as the SMT anyways, and that airframe has been produced serially (for example the supposedly 'Syrian' MiG-29M2s are based on that 2nd gen airframe, not the vanilla).

EDIT: Forgot to say, only unified single-seat or trainer airframe is under production, not the purely single seat original MiG-29M or MiG-29K. Now the K and the KUB have the same canopy, same with MiG-29M2. But it is still a modification of the MiG-29M 2nd gen aiframe.

Wasn't there a photo that Paralay upload that showed a warehouse with about 10 unassembled old gen MiG-29 airframes when this contact was first announced?

Though I'm with you guys I really hope these planes will be MiG-29Ms.