Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
flamming_python wrote:
Personally, I don't want to have anything to do with that fail of a country.
Just ensure the safety of the Donbassians; preferably give them an opportunity to reconquer the rest of their oblasts; and then the rest of the Ukraine can live how they wish.
JohninMK wrote:
Sorry but what on earth makes you believe that Russia 'wants' the economic and social basket case that is now Ukraine?
It is even highly unlikely that Russia 'wanted' Ukraine a couple of years ago when it was a lot better off, due to the financial costs of an ageing population, a mainly clapped out beyond its use by date industry and a mining industry digging very expensive (in terms of lives and the cost of deep mines) coal. Let alone the oligarchal structure in society.
Russia might be asked to step in with a peacekeeping force but that is probably as far as it goes.
and worse if a new power in Kiev friendly to Russia ,recognize Crimea as a Russian land? (in hopes that the rest of Ukraine will be integrated into Russia too. ) 
The effectively the Minks-2 agreement is fully implemented.. Ukraine gets the control of Donetsk and Lugansk.. but under a pro Russian Administration. 
JohninMK wrote:From today's OSCE report, unequally posted the same day as it reports on. This is a huge increase in activity. Quiet elsewhere they monitored they say.
There was a high level of violence at and around the Donetsk airport. Between 08:00 and 17:45hrs, at the Joint Centre for Control and Co-ordination (JCCC) observation point at Donetsk central railway station (“Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”)-controlled, 8km north-west of Donetsk city centre), the SMM heard 617 instances of weapons fire, including tank, anti-aircraft gun, heavy machine gun, automatic grenade launcher and small arms. This firing was heard 2 - 9km north, north-east and north-west of the SMM’s position.[1]
Vann7 wrote:
I mean that RUssia wants to capture all Ukraine.. away of the americans...
Annexation of Ukraine for now or near Future not happening any time soon.. Russia
cannot handle the pensions and economic needs of 40 millions of Ukrainians..
auslander wrote:There seems to be a distinct slow down of OSCE activities on our side of the lines. I noticed this in the couple weeks or so after that one reporter started to photo the OSCE operative's faces and started to ID them, then the locals picked up the trend and also began to document the OSCE operative's total lack of any tools or equipment to measure what hit where and from where and their total lack of cooperation or desire to talk to the witnesses. I suppose next the OSCE operatives will start wearing balaklavas.
That could mean eventual NATO bases and missiles there.
Already there are some commentators who draw an analogy with Ukraine today with what happened in Vietnam and specifically the 1975 Spring offensive by the North that defeated the South very quickly. It's not the best analogy in military terms, but shows how an American backed and seemingly large and strong army was to an extent an empty shell. For the last year I have said that what we have around Donbass, the ATO, is an inverse empty shell and that when it is cracked the end will come quickly for Kiev.Cowboy's daughter wrote:I read this today about Viet Nam:
“The enemy will pass slowly from the offensive to the defensive. The blitzkrieg will transform itself into a war of long duration. Thus, the enemy will be caught in a dilemma: He has to drag out the war in order to win it and does not possess, on the other hand, the psychological and political means to fight a long-drawn-out war."
and it made me think about Ukraine/Kiev government...
Think about the several millions Ukrainians living in Russia and the prospect of more to come as the situation spirals out of control.sepheronx wrote:I don't know how it would be inside Russia's borders when clearly there are borders between the two countries.
The detour through Gomel would not be such a big deal, specially for those living in Lvov.sepheronx wrote:I would at that point suggest Russia simply builds a wall, and says no one can go through the Ukrainian border but through only Novorussian sector.
Then why not speeding up the process if that's the goal? You know, doing the same as Kiev has being trying to do but not failing miserably.PapaDragon wrote:Russia not only wants failed state of Ukraine but also needs it because it is one of the phases towards Russia's favorable outcome.
If you mean the ones that want to be ruled directly by Moscow then yes, you're completely right but that's it.Erk wrote:The pro Russian portion of the Ukrainian population is a minority not a majority.
"Right Sector" in a few hours will begin to "the elimination of all those involved in the attack on members of the organization"
07/12/2015 - 10:45
This page Facebook spokesman said the court decision prohibited the Russian extremist community.
Literally, the report states the following:
"Criminal-oligarchic regime led by Poroshenko completely repeated the way the regime of Yanukovych, shedding the blood of Ukrainian patriots who prevented his criminal dealings in Transcarpathia. In connection with this command:
1. All WP and DRG 1st Division of the SS intelligence AQL leave permanent deployment base and go into battle mode output.
2. To consider and staff units MIA, SSU et al., That now are fighting with units of the right sector, or block them in any way take part in it - state criminals, who are subject to disarmament, and in case of resistance - destruction.
3. In case of no cessation of hostilities in 0000. 13/07/2015 command to start the elimination of all those involved in the attack on a member of the right sector or traditions of the criminal orders, throughout Ukraine and in spite of their positions.
4. In the case of attempts to arrest or disarmament to open fire.
5. Be prepared to deploy a full-fledged armed insurgency on the territory of Ukraine against the occupation internally criminal oligarchic regime.
6. 1 from the unit commander. Intelligence AQL PS bring this order to the attention of all personnel departments.
Rodinazombie wrote:Google translated so bear with me, points 3 and 5 are the juiciest ones. I do wonder how yarosh will play this one out, as he seems to have been in the governments pocket recently. Will he be able to reign them in?
http://rusnext.ru/news/1436685724
"Right Sector" in a few hours will begin to "the elimination of all those involved in the attack on members of the organization"
07/12/2015 - 10:45
This page Facebook spokesman said the court decision prohibited the Russian extremist community.
Literally, the report states the following:
"Criminal-oligarchic regime led by Poroshenko completely repeated the way the regime of Yanukovych, shedding the blood of Ukrainian patriots who prevented his criminal dealings in Transcarpathia. In connection with this command:
1. All WP and DRG 1st Division of the SS intelligence AQL leave permanent deployment base and go into battle mode output.
2. To consider and staff units MIA, SSU et al., That now are fighting with units of the right sector, or block them in any way take part in it - state criminals, who are subject to disarmament, and in case of resistance - destruction.
3. In case of no cessation of hostilities in 0000. 13/07/2015 command to start the elimination of all those involved in the attack on a member of the right sector or traditions of the criminal orders, throughout Ukraine and in spite of their positions.
4. In the case of attempts to arrest or disarmament to open fire.
5. Be prepared to deploy a full-fledged armed insurgency on the territory of Ukraine against the occupation internally criminal oligarchic regime.
6. 1 from the unit commander. Intelligence AQL PS bring this order to the attention of all personnel departments.
They consider the government as legitimate for not following their patriotic agenda so in short: if authorities are not willing to compromise they're going to face violence from local RS branches all over the country.Erk wrote:I don't understand, who is writing this?
Why do they talk about "Be prepared to deploy a full-fledged armed insurgency on the territory of Ukraine"? is there some kind of invasion about to happen?
Типичный Киев wrote:Our police have cares. Six police for 6 minutes per person to be detained.Алексей Карангин via YouTube comments wrote:The courage and consummate professionalism 4 !!!!! Kiev police seizure of spoons from the homeless deserves respect. Guys, how much you would have to, if he had a knife?
whir wrote:Think about the several millions Ukrainians living in Russia and the prospect of more to come as the situation spirals out of control.
whir wrote:If you mean the ones that want to be ruled directly by Moscow then yes, you're completely right but that's it.
Parade material, what was real was the mobilisation las night of several buses with troops to protect administration complex in central Kiev.Cowboy's daughter wrote:This is what this says, but is it?
Rodinazombie wrote:Google translated so bear with me, points 3 and 5 are the juiciest ones. I do wonder how yarosh will play this one out, as he seems to have been in the governments pocket recently. Will he be able to reign them in?
http://rusnext.ru/news/1436685724
"Right Sector" in a few hours will begin to "the elimination of all those involved in the attack on members of the organization"
07/12/2015 - 10:45
This page Facebook spokesman said the court decision prohibited the Russian extremist community.
Literally, the report states the following:
"Criminal-oligarchic regime led by Poroshenko completely repeated the way the regime of Yanukovych, shedding the blood of Ukrainian patriots who prevented his criminal dealings in Transcarpathia. In connection with this command:
1. All WP and DRG 1st Division of the SS intelligence AQL leave permanent deployment base and go into battle mode output.
2. To consider and staff units MIA, SSU et al., That now are fighting with units of the right sector, or block them in any way take part in it - state criminals, who are subject to disarmament, and in case of resistance - destruction.
3. In case of no cessation of hostilities in 0000. 13/07/2015 command to start the elimination of all those involved in the attack on a member of the right sector or traditions of the criminal orders, throughout Ukraine and in spite of their positions.
4. In the case of attempts to arrest or disarmament to open fire.
5. Be prepared to deploy a full-fledged armed insurgency on the territory of Ukraine against the occupation internally criminal oligarchic regime.
6. 1 from the unit commander. Intelligence AQL PS bring this order to the attention of all personnel departments.
They probably realize that it would be dumb for them to fight against each other. I predict that there will be negotiations and no fighting.Khepesh wrote:Various media outlets report that "Azov" and "Donbass" have issued threats about the situation at Mukachevo. They did similar last year over other nonsense but did nothing. Latest reports say that the operation to liquidate the situation is postponed, presumably while Yarosh negotiates. Best and most concise report of the situation, dealing with known facts and the chronology so far, I have found to be this http://novorossiya.name/boynya-v-mukachevo-khronologiya-sobytiy/ which does not engage in wild speculation and believes that the situation will calm down and not progress, at least in the short term.
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