The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

JohninMK wrote:Yes, well, mmmm, my highlight.

KIEV (Sputnik) — Kiev has fulfilled its commitments under the Minsk agreement and hopes to regain control over the Donbass region until the end of the year, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said Sunday.

On Thursday, Poroshenko submitted a proposal on constitutional amendments which would address the special status of the Donbass region to the Ukrainian parliament, the Verkhovna Rada.

"It is Ukraine's obligations to carry out constitutional reforms. We are ahead of the schedule, with the 11th article [of the Minsk agreement] de facto fulfilled. We have launched the process of constitutional amendments. Now, Russia must begin to carry out its obligations as it should be 'until the end of the year.' Russia must withdraw illegal armed formations, close the border and give the border control back to Ukraine," Poroshenko told the ICTV television channel in an interview. Poroshenko added that "the understanding with the Ukrainian brothers will be found" as soon as Ukraine regains control over the Donbass region.

Constitutional amendments providing more autonomy to the Donetsk and Lugansk regions were stipulated by the February Minsk agreements signed by Kiev and Donbass representatives, along with a ceasefire deal.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150719/1024815652.html#ixzz3gNe2STvx

Nuland said that was so two or three days ago, ergo it has to be so. Expect EUUSA to start parroting the same line today if they haven't already. I especially like this line:

"the understanding with the Ukrainian brothers will be found" as soon as Ukraine regains control over the Donbass region."

From the orc's actions in recent past we know exactly how that understanding will be carried out.

Lenta.ru has an interesting article about the pull back of NAF. It mentions that UA have dug in around Donbass, and offensive on behalf of NAF would be costly. Drawing UA closer to you, making them come out of their trenches, can be a key to a successful counter offense.

kap-the-head wrote:Lenta.ru has an interesting article about the pull back of NAF.  It mentions that UA have dug in around Donbass, and offensive on behalf of NAF would be costly. Drawing UA closer to you, making them come out of their trenches, can be a key to a successful counter offense.

Except the UA will already know this if it's to the stage of people on forums talking about it.

kap-the-head wrote:Lenta.ru has an interesting article about the pull back of NAF.  It mentions that UA have dug in around Donbass, and offensive on behalf of NAF would be costly. Drawing UA closer to you, making them come out of their trenches, can be a key to a successful counter offense.

The junta is not going to attack. It will put its artillery positions nearer to Donetsk and shell the city even more.

IED based on RGD-5 grenade exploded at cafe Liberty on Rishelevskaya in downtown Odessa this morning and one person injured.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

kap-the-head wrote:Lenta.ru has an interesting article about the pull back of NAF.  It mentions that UA have dug in around Donbass, and offensive on behalf of NAF would be costly. Drawing UA closer to you, making them come out of their trenches, can be a key to a successful counter offense.

The junta is not going to attack. It will put its artillery positions nearer to Donetsk and shell the city even more.

If they get closer , moving away from their trenches.. they will be vulnerable , and same with artillery.. If the report is correct.. is more like a trap.. The Rebels have to have marked ,every place they control near the front line.. So if the Ukraine army advance and try to capture more territory ,their will be exposed in the open.. and the Rebels will not need to aim much to get
accurate hits ,since the entire border they control have to be with locators that can guide artillery.. and hidden cameras too..  It will be like a mine field if the move forware will have to do it very slowly.  We will see..

But what it is clear ..is that Russia do have many cards to play to destroy Ukraine if there is a need for it.. if anything fails.. Russia for example can start a new front in Kharkiv and that means kiev will need to split their army and possibly maybe a new front in Odessa but that one will be more harder to implement. Russia can also start a new front in Western Ukraine in the hungarian zones with a bit of help of HUngary ,that its president even though is part of EU and a NATO member.. is friendly to Russia and with a bit of help a new front near Kiev through Belarus.. if he manage to convince Lukashenko that the goal is to pressure Kiev to fully comply with Minsk-2..and give autonomy to rebelious zones. and that Russia have no intention to annex any more territory.

Any other small armed revolution in any other city other than Donetsk and lugansk..can do a lot
of damage to Ukraine economy and halt any loans of the IMF.. they want to give loans to help ukraine ,but they will not do it if they notice Ukraine is disbanding.

kap-the-head wrote:Lenta.ru has an interesting article about the pull back of NAF.  It mentions that UA have dug in around Donbass, and offensive on behalf of NAF would be costly. Drawing UA closer to you, making them come out of their trenches, can be a key to a successful counter offense.

Exactly what I said several days before this. It's quite clear to me that they are baiting the VSU into attacking.

Erk wrote:

Except the UA will already know this if it's to the stage of people on forums talking about it.

Don't confuse knowledge and acting upon this knowledge. So now that the NAF made their move what's the VSU going to do? Continue to shell Donetsk? Not going to fly, even the OSCE aren't this level 100-retarded. Telling the world that tne resistance is shelling their own cities is not going to work this time.

Another video representing the country on the other side of the frontline:

Vann7 wrote:
Russia for example can start a new front in Kharkiv

Wishful thinking.

Neutrality wrote:

Erk wrote:

Except the UA will already know this if it's to the stage of people on forums talking about it.

Don't confuse knowledge and acting upon this knowledge. So now that the NAF made their move what's the VSU going to do? Continue to shell Donetsk? Not going to fly, even the OSCE aren't this level 100-retarded. Telling the world that tne resistance is shelling their own cities is not going to work this time.

Why would not "continue to fly"?

At least the Finnish mainstream media has said nothing about the withdrawal of heavy weapons by the NAF. The media can spin the events in Ukraine any way they choose. They are not going to mention about the withdrawal of heavy weapons because it would not fit in their narrative. If the media and politicians do not tell the real story then the junta can keep shelling Donetsk indefinitely even with the NAF withdrawing its heavy weapons with zero pressure to Kiev to stop it.

There are no rules in this game. We are dealing with an enemy with no morals and no dignity.

PapaDragon wrote:Instead they are clear sign of desperation. [/b]Ukrops have opportunity here, risky but still, opportunity to make serious progress on the front. Instead they are too scared to leave safety of their holes while the rest of their country is falling apart. They can stop this descent into anarchy by winning even if it's just a small victory and small territorial gain, but all they do is shell couple of rebel cities while rest of their country is becoming European Somalia.

While UAF destroys parts of rebel cities with artillery, NAF is destroying entire Ukraine by simply doing nothing.

There will be some major moves by NAF at some point but for now ukrops are doing most of the work for them.

The regular UAF do not advance because it is not part of their strategy. It is not summer 2014.

Maidan claims NAF never pulled out any artillery under 100 mm and that NAF continues to shell civilians. As expected, NAF's PR stunts will never work.  

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/unian-situation-tense-in-east-ukraine-as-militants-fire-artillery-and-tanks-393844.html


Maidan claims 4 civilians in Donbas were killed by NAF shelling yesterday.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/four-civilians-killed-four-injured-in-artillery-fire-in-donetsk-region-on-july-19-393830.html


IMO, Maidan will never advance an inch. Maidan's orders come from Nuland these days.

pravy sektor have set up a checkpoint, or rather taken over a checkpoint, on the border with PMR at the village of Tymkovo in Odessa oblast. "normal" Ukranian border guards and customs officers are said to welcome this and are willing to cooperate. Bizarre, complete anarchy... http://public.od.ua/news/2015/07/20/ps-ustanovil-blokpost/# and the location is here https://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=29.290267%2C47.873327&z=13&l=map

Khepesh wrote:pravy sektor have set up a checkpoint, or rather taken over a checkpoint, on the border with PMR at the village of Tymkovo in Odessa oblast. "normal" Ukranian border guards and customs officers are said to welcome this and are willing to cooperate. Bizarre, complete anarchy... http://public.od.ua/news/2015/07/20/ps-ustanovil-blokpost/# and the location is here https://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=29.290267%2C47.873327&z=13&l=map

Hard to get a read onto the purpose with those guys. Is it that they want a piece of the action or do they want to stop the action?

franco wrote:

Hard to get a read onto the purpose with those guys. Is it that they want a piece of the action or do they want to stop the action?

Impossible to tell as there is no precedent to this that I know of. What other country has an armed gang take over a border crossing and the regular border guards and customs are willing to cooperate, it's madness. But as JohninMK says, it could be they want to show that only pravy sektor can defend Ukraine, but that the state lets them do this.....

Khepesh wrote:Impossible to tell as there is no precedent to this that I know of. What other country has an armed gang take over a border crossing and the regular border guards and customs are willing to cooperate, it's madness Saakashvili.

Something is not kosher in Odessa and it's not RS.

Neutrality wrote:Another video representing the country on the other side of the frontline:

One comment: "sell your soul to the devil for unfulfilled promises !!! "...

That's a very powerful statement.