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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

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    Cahaba


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Cahaba Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:54 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    You can have good PR and result in unending war and deaths, or you can have bad PR and save lives, but you can't have both

    You are trolling or you are really that indoctrinated to believe that Nuking TIGHTLY populated civilian cities in any form way or parallel universe "saving lifes". No one was safed that was only for one purpose to initiate a new ERA where US would demonstrate with actual use of nukes that it is above Soviet Union, those people were genocided for only one purpose muscle flexing. IF i ever hear that argument in REAL Life from anybody i will hit him in the face for this inhumane, absurd and right out hatefilled garbage that can only come from supremacy believing assholes.
    I'm sorry but the nukes did save lives in the end. An invasion of Japan would have taken much longer and would have taken a lot more lives on either side and likely caused a lot more destruction throughout Japan. If I was a military commander, I would have nuked Japan in order to convince them to surrender, which they did. Sometimes you have to sacrifice some so more will live.

    I find this argument tiring. Enormous resources were expended on a weapon we had two of. That would have bought a ton of conventional weapons to barbecue all of Nippon.

    It was a live weapons test. We were going to win anyway, and we wanted to see what this new tech did in real application.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Cahaba Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:03 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Lol, there's no Pro-NAF/NR guys within Vice.

    Sure there is. Vice is not under US government control.

    Yes it is. FOX News owns Vice, FOX News is controlled by US government.
    Might wanna check up on that. FOX has been the moat anti-government outlet in the US for the last 6 years. US government has 0 control over MSM outlets in the US but all the owners of the US MSM outlets strongly support US foreign policy, no matter who is in control of the US Government.

    CNN has been caught manufacturing fake news for war propaganda since at least Gulf War I. Caught red handed, in fact. And they have trained US Army media personnel in Atlanta.

    Go read Joel Stein's L.A.Times article about who controls all of the large media companies in America.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Regular Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:25 am

    Vice used to be refreshing and interesting few years ago.
    Now I hate it and like it same time, just like mp.net.
    It has fair amount of bullshit and agenda. Simon that hipster bastard is a guy I would like to punch in the face, but for his Sochi coverage not Novorossiya one. His investigation on Selfie soldiers was interesting.
    That Brit guy is atleast honest, but he is very naive if he thinks there are no nazis in ukraine.
    Still if You watch Vice news prepare Your BS filters
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:42 am

    Regular wrote:Vice used to be refreshing and interesting few years ago.
    Now I hate it and like it same time, just like mp.net.
    It has fair amount of bullshit and agenda. Simon that hipster bastard is a guy I would like to punch in the face, but for his Sochi coverage not Novorossiya one. His investigation on Selfie soldiers was interesting.
    That Brit guy is atleast honest, but he is very naive if he thinks there are no nazis in ukraine.
    Still if You watch Vice news prepare Your BS filters

    Actually the Selfie Soldiers was basically self-defeating. Higgins was in company of his Ukrop Liaison guys on air on the face of Ostrovsky. The info they got is totally "non-open source". As for the investigation itself, The Bouryat guy they stalk has no insignia on his winter uniform, is shown in term of service uniform etc ... There are other ways to see where and how Russia helps the NAF instead of stalking guys on the internet. One of them is checking the markings on the spent ammo (ammo as fresh as 6 months old has been fired on the Ukrops from Illovaisk to Debaltsvo). That's not mismatch...
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:04 am

    LOLs Henry Langston almost got killed by Maidan artillery starting at 8:00 into the video. Shocked

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Guest Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:10 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Lol, there's no Pro-NAF/NR guys within Vice.

    Sure there is. Vice is not under US government control.

    Yes it is. FOX News owns Vice, FOX News is controlled by US government.
    Might wanna check up on that. FOX has been the moat anti-government outlet in the US for the last 6 years. US government has 0 control over MSM outlets in the US but all the owners of the US MSM outlets strongly support US foreign policy, no matter who is in control of the US Government.

    Just wow.... someone who did not get a memo of 21st century.

    The entire MSM is controlled, the FOX shit news is only made to appear as "critical" however it uses the lowest forms of reversed psychological warfare to achieve its propaganda agenda set by the govt. Just like BILD in germany with their three Main maxims "FEAR,TITS and Weather prognosses" the same counts for FOX News and the entire branch. That is also the reason why most americans trust fox news and a freakish unbelieveable amount of germans trust BILD which is controlled by US and everyone that enters this crap news signs a little contract same as for all Springer Verlag sub-media outlets.

    The contract forbids to ciritize or to report against the interests of the transatlantic bridge and similiar lobbies. It prohibits to critize and show only support for Israel and its "struggles". To fully represent "democracy" and not to go against it. The rejection of any "political totalitarisms" ....which we are already in one called EU as a vassal of US and that journalists have to "protect" the "free" market.

    Get educated about MSM and how they are controlled.
    Are the owners and shareholders of these big MSM companies powerful and use the news to push forward their own agenda and go as far as to fake their own stories? Absolutely. Are these owners affiliated with the US government? Not directly. I know full well how the MSM is controlled in the US and I am telling you it is not directly by the government. No offense, but thanks to some of the people I met and spoke to, I think my knowledge here outclasses your knowledge.

    All MSM outlets do more or less agree on US foreign policy and we can discuss why that is if you want but the biggest differences are in how they present domestic policy. Look at the recent racially issues with the police lately, some MSM outlets portray the African-American community as heavilyabused and the police on all levels (local, state, federal) as racist, militarized @$$holes. While Fox news says the exact opposite. Why is that? If it was all government controlled, do you think we would hear such a wide range of opinions? There are plenty of clips on YouTube if you want to compare different MSM outlets reporting on the issue. There are federal LEOs who despise the media because it makes it really hard for them to do their job. What you are diving into is pure conspiracy BS.

    Fox News is also the least trusted news agency in the states last I checked btw.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:59 am

    Its rather off-topic, but I noticed a few statements that I feel I must challenge:

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    I'm sorry but the nukes did save lives in the end. An invasion of Japan would have taken much longer and would have taken a lot more lives on either side and likely caused a lot more destruction throughout Japan. If I was a military commander, I would have nuked Japan in order to convince them to surrender, which they did. Sometimes you have to sacrifice some so more will live.

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki wasted Japanese lives but saved American lives and helped the United States to win the war without high casualties. Japan was the enemy for the United States at the time and Japanese civilians were expendable.

    What the United States did was evil and inhuman but cynically it was a success since they won the war and they never faced any repercussions for nuking two big cities. They even got Japan, a nation that they nuked, as a vassal/ally for 70 years and counting.

    With all due respect, that is all nothing but establishment LIES & BULLSHIT designed to justify the atomic bombing of Japan which is a WAR CRIME OF THE HIGHEST ORDER and fully comparable to ANYTHING the Nazis committed in Europe.


    Firstly, by early 1945 the Japanese knew they were defeated and were actively looking for a way to surrender with honor (with the preservation of the Emperor being their only condition), but the US ignored the overtures thru 3rd parties as an early end to the war did not mesh with US post-war plans.  Japanese soldiers may have been fanatical at defending every inch of their territory, but only as long as their "God" Emperor commanded them to do so. Once Hirihito ordered the military to cease fighting, they all obeyed TO THE VERY LAST MAN.  This is proof that a Japanese surrender didn't require the incineration of 100,000s of Japanese civilians - all that was necessary was to create conditions that could allow Hirihito to order an honourable surrender, which he was CLEARLY seeking.

    The lie that Amerikkkans tell themselves about the atomic bombs saving the lives of 1 million US serviceman is a cheap and shallow fabrication, yet one that sucessive US governments, biased hostorians and corporate media hacks have happily indulged in as it is a sugar-coated fairy tale that reflects well upon Amerikkkans and their overly inflated opinions of themselves.  If the bombings were conducted against London and New York by Nazi Germany to forestall attacks against their homeland, I doubt the same justification would be accepted, and that our judgement would be that such acts constitute unpardonable war crimes of the highest order.


    Secondly, the US under that ignorant bumpkin Truman desired to intimidate the Soviet Union with the new wonder weapon and cement US dominance in the post-war world.  Trumans arrogant posturing to Stalin following the successful test of "Trinity" at White Sands in July 1945 is testimony to this fact. The Soviets learned a lesson certainly, but not the one the US had in mind. Stalin took keen note that not only was the US leadership willing to exterminate entire cities at a stroke, they were willing to do so even when unnecessary, ie against a defenseless enemy secretly suing for peace. If the US was capable of doing that to the Japanese, Stalin believed the US would have no qualms about incinerating Soviet cities. It is no wonder that the Soviets distrusted US intentions and insisted on its own atomic weaponry.

    In a very real sense, the actions of US President Truman were the genesis of the Cold War to come.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Erk Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:01 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    You can have good PR and result in unending war and deaths, or you can have bad PR and save lives, but you can't have both

    You are trolling or you are really that indoctrinated to believe that Nuking TIGHTLY populated civilian cities in any form way or parallel universe "saving lifes". No one was safed that was only for one purpose to initiate a new ERA where US would demonstrate with actual use of nukes that it is above Soviet Union, those people were genocided for only one purpose muscle flexing. IF i ever hear that argument in REAL Life from anybody i will hit him in the face for this inhumane, absurd and right out hatefilled garbage that can only come from supremacy believing assholes.
    I'm sorry but the nukes did save lives in the end. An invasion of Japan would have taken much longer and would have taken a lot more lives on either side and likely caused a lot more destruction throughout Japan. If I was a military commander, I would have nuked Japan in order to convince them to surrender, which they did. Sometimes you have to sacrifice some so more will live.

    The atom bombs weren't just about causing Japan to surrender, they were also about the US demonstrating its power...particularly to the Russians.

    Japan had already approached Russia to try and get them to try and help broker a surrender deal.

    There are many books on it, here is one http://www.amazon.com/Decision-Use-Atomic-Bomb/dp/067976285X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239874025&sr=1-3


    Back on topic, here is the latest South Front military report.



    The UAF casualties were due mainly to infighting!
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:11 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Lol, there's no Pro-NAF/NR guys within Vice.

    Sure there is. Vice is not under US government control.

    Yes it is. FOX News owns Vice, FOX News is controlled by US government.
    Might wanna check up on that. FOX has been the moat anti-government outlet in the US for the last 6 years. US government has 0 control over MSM outlets in the US but all the owners of the US MSM outlets strongly support US foreign policy, no matter who is in control of the US Government.

    Just wow.... someone who did not get a memo of 21st century.

    The entire MSM is controlled, the FOX shit news is only made to appear as "critical" however it uses the lowest forms of reversed psychological warfare to achieve its propaganda agenda set by the govt. Just like BILD in germany with their three Main maxims "FEAR,TITS and Weather prognosses" the same counts for FOX News and the entire branch. That is also the reason why most americans trust fox news and a freakish unbelieveable amount of germans trust BILD which is controlled by US and everyone that enters this crap news signs a little contract same as for all Springer Verlag sub-media outlets.

    The contract forbids to ciritize or to report against the interests of the transatlantic bridge and similiar lobbies. It prohibits to critize and show only support for Israel and its "struggles". To fully represent "democracy" and not to go against it. The rejection of any "political totalitarisms" ....which we are already in one called EU as a vassal of US and that journalists have to "protect" the "free" market.

    Get educated about MSM and how they are controlled.
    Are the owners and shareholders of these big MSM companies powerful and use the news to push forward their own agenda and go as far as to fake their own stories? Absolutely. Are these owners affiliated with the US government? Not directly. I know full well how the MSM is controlled in the US and I am telling you it is not directly by the government. No offense, but thanks to some of the people I met and spoke to, I think my knowledge here outclasses your knowledge.

    All MSM outlets do more or less agree on US foreign policy and we can discuss why that is if you want but the biggest differences are in how they present domestic policy. Look at the recent racially issues with the police lately, some MSM outlets portray the African-American community as heavilyabused and the police on all levels (local, state, federal) as racist, militarized @$$holes. While Fox news says the exact opposite. Why is that? If it was all government controlled, do you think we would hear such a wide range of opinions? There are plenty of clips on YouTube if you want to compare different MSM outlets reporting on the issue. There are federal LEOs who despise the media because it makes it really hard for them to do their job. What you are diving into is pure conspiracy BS.

    Fox News is also the least trusted news agency in the states last I checked btw.

    I think the real issue here is that the US appears to be ruled by a Deep State of sorts, a loose collective of Ultra-wealthy people who wield enormous clout behind the scenes, and who in essence control the elected representatives by holding the purse strings and use them as a kind of political service provider to serve the interests of big business and private capital (the Bilderbergers are just one component, albeit the most visible).  One only has to witness the Rethuglicans getting on their collective knees to corrupt racist greedy scumbags such as Sheldon Adelson and you will see what I mean.  These Ultra-wealthy oligarchs (for want of a better word) also own and control the media industry, and they use this control of information to enforce their agenda, exclude inconvenient facts and prevent the public discussion of any alternative to the current rapacious capitalistic financial/economic system.

    US media is truly free.  Free to promote and disseminate the views and beliefs of their Ultra-wealthy owners...
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Neutrality Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:21 am

    Keep the off-topic history of unrelated events out please?
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:46 am

    Neutrality wrote:Keep the off-topic history of unrelated events out please?

    x2 this

    You are turning this place into Butthurt Tread®️ 2.0

    Flagship Haushofer strikes again it seems.... unshaven
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    Post  Guest Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:09 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:Its rather off-topic, but I noticed a few statements that I feel I must challenge:

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    I'm sorry but the nukes did save lives in the end. An invasion of Japan would have taken much longer and would have taken a lot more lives on either side and likely caused a lot more destruction throughout Japan. If I was a military commander, I would have nuked Japan in order to convince them to surrender, which they did. Sometimes you have to sacrifice some so more will live.

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki wasted Japanese lives but saved American lives and helped the United States to win the war without high casualties. Japan was the enemy for the United States at the time and Japanese civilians were expendable.

    What the United States did was evil and inhuman but cynically it was a success since they won the war and they never faced any repercussions for nuking two big cities. They even got Japan, a nation that they nuked, as a vassal/ally for 70 years and counting.

    With all due respect, that is all nothing but establishment LIES & BULLSHIT designed to justify the atomic bombing of Japan which is a WAR CRIME OF THE HIGHEST ORDER and fully comparable to ANYTHING the Nazis committed in Europe.


    Firstly, by early 1945 the Japanese knew they were defeated and were actively looking for a way to surrender with honor (with the preservation of the Emperor being their only condition), but the US ignored the overtures thru 3rd parties as an early end to the war did not mesh with US post-war plans.  Japanese soldiers may have been fanatical at defending every inch of their territory, but only as long as their "God" Emperor commanded them to do so. Once Hirihito ordered the military to cease fighting, they all obeyed TO THE VERY LAST MAN.  This is proof that a Japanese surrender didn't require the incineration of 100,000s of Japanese civilians - all that was necessary was to create conditions that could allow Hirihito to order an honourable surrender, which he was CLEARLY seeking.

    The lie that Amerikkkans tell themselves about the atomic bombs saving the lives of 1 million US serviceman is a cheap and shallow fabrication, yet one that sucessive US governments, biased hostorians and corporate media hacks have happily indulged in as it is a sugar-coated fairy tale that reflects well upon Amerikkkans and their overly inflated opinions of themselves.  If the bombings were conducted against London and New York by Nazi Germany to forestall attacks against their homeland, I doubt the same justification would be accepted, and that our judgement would be that such acts constitute unpardonable war crimes of the highest order.


    Secondly, the US under that ignorant bumpkin Truman desired to intimidate the Soviet Union with the new wonder weapon and cement US dominance in the post-war world.  Trumans arrogant posturing to Stalin following the successful test of "Trinity" at White Sands in July 1945 is testimony to this fact. The Soviets learned a lesson certainly, but not the one the US had in mind. Stalin took keen note that not only was the US leadership willing to exterminate entire cities at a stroke, they were willing to do so even when unnecessary, ie against a defenseless enemy secretly suing for peace. If the US was capable of doing that to the Japanese, Stalin believed the US would have no qualms about incinerating Soviet cities. It is no wonder that the Soviets distrusted US intentions and insisted on its own atomic weaponry.

    In a very real sense, the actions of US President Truman were the genesis of the Cold War to come.
    Erk wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    You can have good PR and result in unending war and deaths, or you can have bad PR and save lives, but you can't have both

    You are trolling or you are really that indoctrinated to believe that Nuking TIGHTLY populated civilian cities in any form way or parallel universe "saving lifes". No one was safed that was only for one purpose to initiate a new ERA where US would demonstrate with actual use of nukes that it is above Soviet Union, those people were genocided for only one purpose muscle flexing. IF i ever hear that argument in REAL Life from anybody i will hit him in the face for this inhumane, absurd and right out hatefilled garbage that can only come from supremacy believing assholes.
    I'm sorry but the nukes did save lives in the end. An invasion of Japan would have taken much longer and would have taken a lot more lives on either side and likely caused a lot more destruction throughout Japan. If I was a military commander, I would have nuked Japan in order to convince them to surrender, which they did. Sometimes you have to sacrifice some so more will live.

    The atom bombs weren't just about causing Japan to surrender, they were also about the US demonstrating its power...particularly to the Russians.

    Japan had already approached Russia to try and get them to try and help broker a surrender deal.

    There are many books on it, here is one http://www.amazon.com/Decision-Use-Atomic-Bomb/dp/067976285X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239874025&sr=1-3


    Back on topic, here is the latest South Front military report.

    The Japanese weren't about to surrender peacefully, not even their leadership was ready to do that. They must have known that the war was over for them and they were considering to surrender but they didn't. Look at the dates when the USSR moved in and fought to retake Manchuria. They fought with every ounce of strength they had until they were crushed by the Russian juggernaut. My great-grandfather fought against the Japanese there. If it was up to me, I personally wouldn't mind causing a bunch of civilian Japanese deaths than lose any more allied troops (bear in mind that there was a good chance that Russian troops would be needed to help the US). In the case of the nuclear weapons, it did help the Allies to win the war but it set a precedent that is in some ways still continuing today. That is all I have to say about this somewhat OT discussion. A lot of events from that time shaped the crisis we are seeing now and as long as we aren't hostile, we should discuss them.

    There was an article from the KyivPost saying the number of gun crimes in Ukraine had surged to 231% following the Maidan Coup.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Guest Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:12 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Lol, there's no Pro-NAF/NR guys within Vice.

    Sure there is. Vice is not under US government control.

    Yes it is. FOX News owns Vice, FOX News is controlled by US government.
    Might wanna check up on that. FOX has been the moat anti-government outlet in the US for the last 6 years. US government has 0 control over MSM outlets in the US but all the owners of the US MSM outlets strongly support US foreign policy, no matter who is in control of the US Government.

    Just wow.... someone who did not get a memo of 21st century.

    The entire MSM is controlled, the FOX shit news is only made to appear as "critical" however it uses the lowest forms of reversed psychological warfare to achieve its propaganda agenda set by the govt. Just like BILD in germany with their three Main maxims "FEAR,TITS and Weather prognosses" the same counts for FOX News and the entire branch. That is also the reason why most americans trust fox news and a freakish unbelieveable amount of germans trust BILD which is controlled by US and everyone that enters this crap news signs a little contract same as for all Springer Verlag sub-media outlets.

    The contract forbids to ciritize or to report against the interests of the transatlantic bridge and similiar lobbies. It prohibits to critize and show only support for Israel and its "struggles". To fully represent "democracy" and not to go against it. The rejection of any "political totalitarisms" ....which we are already in one called EU as a vassal of US and that journalists have to "protect" the "free" market.

    Get educated about MSM and how they are controlled.
    Are the owners and shareholders of these big MSM companies powerful and use the news to push forward their own agenda and go as far as to fake their own stories? Absolutely. Are these owners affiliated with the US government? Not directly. I know full well how the MSM is controlled in the US and I am telling you it is not directly by the government. No offense, but thanks to some of the people I met and spoke to, I think my knowledge here outclasses your knowledge.

    All MSM outlets do more or less agree on US foreign policy and we can discuss why that is if you want but the biggest differences are in how they present domestic policy. Look at the recent racially issues with the police lately, some MSM outlets portray the African-American community as heavilyabused and the police on all levels (local, state, federal) as racist, militarized @$$holes. While Fox news says the exact opposite. Why is that? If it was all government controlled, do you think we would hear such a wide range of opinions? There are plenty of clips on YouTube if you want to compare different MSM outlets reporting on the issue. There are federal LEOs who despise the media because it makes it really hard for them to do their job. What you are diving into is pure conspiracy BS.

    Fox News is also the least trusted news agency in the states last I checked btw.

    I think the real issue here is that the US appears to be ruled by a Deep State of sorts, a loose collective of Ultra-wealthy people who wield enormous clout behind the scenes, and who in essence control the elected representatives by holding the purse strings and use them as a kind of political service provider to serve the interests of big business and private capital (the Bilderbergers are just one component, albeit the most visible).  One only has to witness the Rethuglicans getting on their collective knees to corrupt racist greedy scumbags such as Sheldon Adelson and you will see what I mean.  These Ultra-wealthy oligarchs (for want of a better word) also own and control the media industry, and they use this control of information to enforce their agenda, exclude inconvenient facts and prevent the public discussion of any alternative to the current rapacious capitalistic financial/economic system.

    US media is truly free.  Free to promote and disseminate the views and beliefs of their Ultra-wealthy owners...
    Won't dive any further, but you hit the nail on the head Big_Gazza.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 28 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  BKP Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:40 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:Keep the off-topic history of unrelated events out please?

    x2 this

    You are turning this place into Butthurt Tread®️ 2.0

    Flagship Haushofer strikes again it seems.... unshaven

    Say fellas, with all respect (genuinely), do you really think it's that much of a concern? Compared to the Butthurt Thread, this one moves at a decidedly glacial pace because there are so few regular posters.

    Generally, these tangents start off as something related to the main topic, and other posters sometimes feel like they really have to say their piece in response. The conversation will inevitably come back into alignment with the established thread topic.

    I mean, I suppose everyone could start a brand new thread whenever a topic comes up that is a side-note to the main one, but aren't there already about 50k other threads on this board that only three people have responded to since 2009 because they're just unaware they exist?

    As much as I detested a lot of the assholes on the Butthurt Thread, it was relatively exciting in that things were often allowed to get a bit hairier in that sense.
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:06 am

    Remember the Ukrainian guy who plans to capture Rostov-on-Don ? He just has modified his goal. Now he wants to capture Moskva and march into the Ural. pwnd pwnd

    http://russian.rt.com/article/105948
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    Post  Guest Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:10 am

    higurashihougi wrote:Remember the Ukrainian guy who plans to capture Rostov-on-Don ? He just has modified his goal. Now he wants to capture Moskva and march into the Ural. pwnd pwnd

    http://russian.rt.com/article/105948
    Here is what I have to say to him (or any Ukrop thinking of marching onto Russian territory):



    They'd help end the war a lot quicker.
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    Post  kap-the-head Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:19 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Glanced at Google News and some other MSM septic tanks.

    Is it me or is there an uptick of RussiansAreComing/EvilPutin articles lately?   scratch

    Something is cooking methinks...Suspect

    Has been going on like that for at least two years, even before the Sochi Olympics... Yahoo is the worst...
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:06 am

    Fox News is not government controlled, more like pro republican party rich man controlled.

    they got to be rich and powerful in this environment... they don't want any real change...
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:07 pm

    MOSCOW, July 29 (Sputnik) – Russian President Vladimir Putin during a phone conversation with Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said that Russia was ready to work closely on the investigation of the Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine in 2014, the Kremlin said Wednesday. “The Russian side emphasizes its readiness to work closely on the issues of investigating the reasons and conditions of the Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine,” the Kremlin said on its official website.

    Vladimir Putin confirmed Moscow’s unchanging position on the inexpediency of setting up a tribunal in regard to the Malaysia Airlines plane crash. "The unchanged position in the inexpediency of establishing such a court organ was confirmed by the Russian president. It was also noted that many questions remain in the investigation," the press service said in a statement.

    Later on Wednesday, the UN Security Council will vote on whether to set up a tribunal to investigate and prosecute those responsible for downing the flight MH17. The initiative to establish the tribunal was proposed by Malaysia earlier in July, and backed by Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and Ukraine. On Monday, Russian envoy to the United Nations Vitaly Churkin said that Moscow would vote against the draft resolution on the creation of the tribunal.

    At the same time, Vladimir Putin expressed his regrets on the UN Security Council’s decision on the compromise project of the MH17 plane crash investigation that was not supported by the countries pushing for an international tribunal of the crash, the Kremlin said on its website Wednesday. “Regret was expressed over the fact that the compromise project was not supported by states pushing for the creation of an international tribunal on the Malaysian Airlines airplane catastrophe,” the statement on the site reads.

    On July 17, 2014, Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crashed in Ukraine's eastern region of Donetsk en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. All 298 people on board, mostly Dutch citizens, died. The preliminary report by the Dutch Safety Board suggested that the plane broke up in mid-air after being hit by numerous high-energy objects that had penetrated it from the outside. A final report is expected to be released in October.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150729/1025168226.html#ixzz3hHVh9xGJ
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    Post  medo Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:41 pm

    http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Government/David_L._Stern_s_phone_talks_before_Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17_plane_crash_1604679.html

    June 25, 2014

    X (non-identified person): Hello.
    David L. Stern: Hello.
    X: How is the preparation work going?
    David L.Stern: Just as it was planned.
    X: Have you met with Ukrainian "warriors"? (laughs)
    David L. Stern: (laughs) Not today.
    X: I need you to personally control "the complex." It should be at a certain location at certain time. Understand?
    David L. Stern: Yes, sure.
    X: I want you to personally do this.
    David L. Stern: Yes, don't worry.
    X: Ok, good luck.
    David L. Stern: Good luck.

    June 27, 2014

    David L. Stern: Hello! I didn't have time to tell you yesterday... It was a right decision to get Poroshenko replace Koval.
    X: That was John's decision (presumably John Brannon). We thought it was right.
    David L. Stern: I am proud to be in his team.
    X: He said we should follow the Saudi model... You know what I mean.
    David L. Stern: Yes, sure.
    X: Why are you talking about this now?
    David L. Stern: I got many questions concerning Buk's movement from the Koval's team. I hope, they don't suspect anything?
    X: Of course, no. Thank you for telling me this. It is important there is no leak.
    David L.Stern: Don't worry. We completely understand everything.
    X: Excellent. Goodbye.
    David L.Stern: Bye.

    July 1, 2014.

    David L. Stern: Hi.
    X: Hi.
    David L. Stern: I want to ask you something. Just for understanding.
    X: Sure. Go ahead!
    David L. Stern: Who recommended Heletey to us?
    X: Are there any problems with him? Is he...?
    David L. Stern: No, no... Everything is fine... I just need to know...
    X: One of our people recommended him... Do you need to know his name?
    David L. Stern: mmm... Is there a problem?
    X: His name is Nalyvaichenko... He asked to discuss this with John... through Kondratyuk.
    David L. Stern: I understand. That is all. No more questions. (laughs)
    X: (laughs) Great. Remember you should be very careful with "the complex." Time frames are of crucial importance. You can't be early. You can't be late. You've got to be just in time. I don't trust Ukrainians. They are on drugs and drunkards. David L. Stern: Sure, don't worry. No problem.
    X: Good luck.
    David L. Stern: Good luck.

    July 4, 2014

    X: Hi. People working with "the complex"... are they freshmen or professionals?
    David L. Stern: Say it again. I did not hear, what?
    X: Soldiers who work on "the complex"... Buk... Do they know what they are doing?
    David L. Stern: We found the best of those available
    X: I was a little worrying, that's it. We were planning it for a long time. If there are any faults... any mistakes... people we work with will never forgive us. David L. Stern: Yes, sure. I'm doing my best.
    X: Very good. I count on you.
    David L.Stern: Goodbye.

    July 11, 2014

    David L.Stern: Hello.
    X: What happened?
    David L. Stern: No problems. Everything is fine. But I need to tell you something.
    X: I'm listening.
    David L. Stern: I am worried, there probably was a leak. Can we change the staff?
    X: Do you have exact information? Or is it just your suspicion?
    David L. Stern: No, no. It is just ... intuition. (laughs)
    X: Ok. I will check everything again. Let's hope your intuition let you down this time. (laughs)
    David L. Stern: Thank you. Goodbye.

    July 15, 2014

    X: Hi.
    David L. Stern: Hi.
    X: How are you?
    David L. Stern: John, I need to tell you something important.
    X: I would ask you not to mention our names in the conversation. Have you forgotten it?
    David L. Stern: Sorry... I am very irritated and worried.
    X: Has anything happened?
    David L. Stern: Not yet. But I am sure it may.
    X: Listen... There is no reason to worry... You are just tired... We're all tired...
    David L. Stern: No! I got absolutely exact information that Russians are hunting me.
    X: Where does it come from?
    David L. Stern: Stop! Please, don't interrupt me. I personally made sure our Ukrainian colleagues are watching me. And I they might be listening to us now. I can't understand what the reason is... It can be either treachery or...
    X: Listen, it is just how the things always are... Let them do their job.
    David L.Stern: No, just listen it to the end. I have absolutely exact information that Russians are hunting me. All the more, they have a positive experience in this, if you know what I mean but... I'm sure if something happens, our bosses will give me up, and believe me I, we, personally I will have to get out of this myself. You know it very well how easily they can let us down.
    X: Yes...
    David L. Stern: So I have my own system that can ensure my safety. For at least our bosses will not forget or abandon me.
    X: What are you talking about?
    David L. Stern: I have several documents confirming that in Ukraine we are acting not on our own behalf... We are not terrorists... We act at the order of our management.
    X: You are mad!
    David L. Stern: No, it is very serious. These are not the games we played in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is much more serious. And I don't want to alone hold responsibility for everything that should happen with this object! I don't want to!
    X: Wait...
    David L. Stern: No, mate. I have already decided everything. I have these documents in several memory sticks and they, as you understand, are in different places. If something goes wrong, Russians get me and I get no support, then the documents will appear in mass media.
    X: Listen... Do you understand that I'll have to report on this.
    David L. Stern: Yes, that's what I count for...
    X: OK... But I would ask you... Not to act thoughtlessly...
    David L. Stern: Sure... I have thought everything through... But you should understand me... Ukrainians try to follow every step I make... Russians are hunting me... Our bosses are simply indifferent to the situation. The only thing that matters for them is the successful completion of the operation.
    X: I understand... You're tired... You know, I will try to do something... I promise. And you don't make any steps now.
    David L. Stern: Sure.
    X: Can you tell me where you got these documents from?
    David L. Stern: (laughs) You know the answer... Of course, no.
    X: Ok... You made me worry. I'll try... I mean, I promise to do what I can for your safety.
    David L. Stern: Ok... I have no doubt in you... Alright... Good luck... Talk to you later.
    X: Bye... Take care... Talk to you later.

    Now we know, who is responsible to shot down Malaysian B777 in Donetsk. It is CIA agent David L. Stern. He coordinate Ukrainian BUK to shot down the plane and he work by the order of US government.
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    Post  medo Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:55 pm

    http://maxpark.com/community/politic/content/3604161

    Here is also an audio file from July 4th.
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    Post  whir Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:24 pm

    Unless someone is able to source audio that can match the voices with real people this is at the level of a sorry telephone prank.
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    Post  auslander Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:41 pm

    whir wrote:Unless someone is able to source audio that can match the voices with real people this is at the level of a sorry telephone prank.

    I have no doubts that at least two countries have very clear satellite imagery as to who did what with which and to whom. If it showed it was either NAF or RAF the imagery would have been out there before the fire was out at the crash scene. Images were not released ergo both sides' top echelons know exactly what happened and we know who the guilty part is, and it ain't RAF or NAF. All the rest since the incident is window dressing.


    Last edited by auslander on Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:42 pm

    Maidan says captured Russian major is Vladimir Starikov

    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-527-ukraine-reports-heavy-fighting-near-schastye-and-avdeyevka/
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:07 pm

    Azrov to form Ukrainian government of exile, end Minsk peace treaty and launch offensive on Kiev  cheers  War is about to start soon.

    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-527-ukraine-reports-heavy-fighting-near-schastye-and-avdeyevka/

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