The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

sepheronx wrote:It is clear as crystal that the preliminary data blames Russia/rebels.

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Neutrality wrote:The whole blame game on Russia is heavily influenced by the fact that the BUK is a Russian system.

A Soviet SAM system which means that Ukraine uses it as well.
Russia would have an even harder time if the BUK was as Russian as T-72B3.

higurashihougi wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Is this for real

What is the patch on his shoulder??

Ukrainian Nazis of the punitive battalion "Azov" burned Orthodox icons, the Bible and the history books.(pics)

Sh*t like this was one of the catalysts for Balkans sh*tstorm in the 90's.

Déjà vu 24/7...

Dear God.

The majority of Ukraina and Russia both follow Eastern Orthodox. Are these Azovs tried to isolate themselves ?

Neutrality wrote:

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Neutrality wrote:The whole blame game on Russia is heavily influenced by the fact that the BUK is a Russian system.

A Soviet SAM system which means that Ukraine uses it as well.
Russia would have an even harder time if the BUK was as Russian as T-72B3.

Again. It. does. not. matter. The common reader knows jackshit about weapon systems. He reads the articles and assumes it as truth.

All headlines in the MSM speak about a RUSSIAN BUK system. This gives the reader the impression that Russia supplied it and that kind of headline doesn't necessarily make the MSM wrong. Because the BUK IS Russian made. You see what I'm getting at with this? Again, it's a good example of information warfare. In this exact case, ambiguity IS the information warfare.

sepheronx wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

sepheronx wrote:The MH-17 situation wont look good for Moscow. While they are right in saying that the investigation must be completed first, the Ukrainians were the ones whom also pushed for the Tribunal and thus were probably guaranteed that they wont be found guilty regardless. Add in, with comments from Churkin that there was no tribunal for the Russian plane shot down over Ukraine back in 2001 mixed with this is making everyone state Russia is guilty. At this point, they should release their evidence because if they do it afterwards, people will just assume it is doctored. The preliminary reports are out and was handed to each party. So my guess is that they blamed Russia entirely due to the equipment used by rebels and thus why Ukraine and US is pushing it. If Ukraine was going to be viewed as guilty, they wouldnt be pushing this.

The points that Churkin asked, which are good ones like 1) why was the plane diverted over a war zone where planes were shot down previously, and (2) where is the flight control center recordings? Will largely be ignored and never answered. Rebels will be found guilty and Russia will be found guilty in association. Maybe they may go as far as blaming Russian military for manning and such the air defence system (the investigators wouldnt know but US will doctor some up "evidence".

The investigation will be a farce and used to blame Russia. Saying Russia will help with investigation will be unwanted and be denied.

There is a twist here. All the information passed by the data providing countries is covered by their 'secrecy pact'. If there is more data that Russia has not yet released to anyone that will not be covered. If this were the case then, if it is not Russia's fault, someone out there might be quite concerned as to what might be released.

In a way maybe Russia is trying to keep the others 'honest' unless the whole thing will be an agreed stitch-up with side benefits. Whatever it is we may never know.

That doesnt make sense. In the end, clearly they are blaming Russia as they did at the start, and Ukraine is denying nearly everything else and wont answer what happened to the control center data and why the pla.e was diverted over that area. You think the Russians want to lose credibility amongst their allies/partners as well as credibility from their own voting base over some secrecy pact or such? BS. It is clear as crystal that the preliminary data blames Russia/rebels.

JohninMK wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

auslander wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Don't you love news like this?

A few days ago, a group of American soldiers caused a security alert at Vienna’s Schwechat airport. The men were stopped while trying to travel with army weapons to Ukraine without any necessary permits, the newspaper wrote. The Austrian police had to intervene and remove the weapons. An investigation into the case was launched.

The nine US soldiers were on their way from Washington to Ukraine, where they were to be deployed. "However, since there were problems with their connecting flight after a stopover in Schwechat, they had to rebook their flight and, therefore, leave the transit area," Colonel Michael Bauer, Defense Ministry spokesman said.

M16 assault rifles and pistols were discovered in the luggage of the American soldiers at a security checkpoint. The incident caused huge shock, because the weapons were not declared and registered and, thus, carried illegally. The soldiers had not obtained the required transit approval by Austria. In special cases, the stay or transit of foreign military forces may be officially allowed after completing the application procedure, but the US soldiers did not send any required requests.

The attempt by the American embassy to obtain the approval after the incident was rejected for legal reasons. Instead of going to Ukraine, the soldiers had to fly back home to Washington and were allowed to take the weapons with them, the newspaper reported.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150730/1025209858.html#ixzz3hNVHjjmM

This story really does not pass the smell test.

Agreed, but it made me smile and it is pretty original. Anyway, Sputnik is always 100% bang on accurate, aren't they? (rhetorical question )

Looks like it was true.

WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — US Marines stopped in Austria en route to Ukraine did not have proper clearances because of accidental oversight, US European Command spokesperson David Westover told Sputnik on Thursday. Austria’s media reported on Wednesday that nine US military personnel were stopped at Vienna’s Schwechat airport while trying to travel with army weapons to Ukraine without any necessary permits.

“By unintentional oversight, the necessary clearances required for transiting Austria were not properly processed prior to their departure. The Austrian authorities were very helpful in resolving this issue,” Westover explained. The spokesperson continued, the Marines were stopped on July 19 while travelling on NATO travel orders through Vienna on commercial flights from Alaska to Ukraine. The group was scheduled to participate in Exercise Saber Guardian in Ukraine, he added.

Austrian Defense Ministry spokesman Colonel Michael Bauer said that there were problems with a connecting flight, and the soldiers had to leave the transit area and rebook.

M16 assault rifles and pistols were discovered in the luggage of the American soldiers at a security checkpoint, according to the Kurier newspaper's report on Wednesday. “The Marines have since returned to their home duty station in Alaska,” Westover said. “US European Command and the US Embassy in Vienna are grateful for the support of the Austrian Government to coordinate the onward movement of nine US Marines last week.”

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150730/1025221120.html#ixzz3hOLgM37x

sepheronx wrote:According to this:

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150730/1025225471.html

Ukraine has veto rights on the publication of the results and stated that they will never be publicly released. Yet they wanted a tribunal regardless but knew Russia would vote against it.

The whole thing is messed up.

GarryB wrote:

not that I support that tribunal, but as an innocent party Russia shouldn't vetoe it.

Of course it will be a fair tribunal, so Russia has nothing to fear if they are not guilty... after all when they invaded Georgia the west fully supported their rights to defend their peace keepers... oh, hang on... no they didn't... for months afterwards it was Russian aggression in Georgia and that poor little defenceless tie eater calling for his NATO allies to defend them against big aggressive Russia.

sepheronx wrote:Now PUkraine said they are going to "Plan B" on the investigation. Whatever that means and whatever plan B is.

Project Canada wrote:Russia and its allies should double their efforts to fight this dirty Propaganda war initiated by US&puppets. Breaking American influence + economy should make them think twice about their delusional feeling of superiority

Project Canada wrote:Russia and its allies should double their efforts to fight this dirty Propaganda war initiated by US&puppets. Breaking American influence + economy should make them think twice about their delusional feeling of superiority

Neutrality wrote:Out of nowhere the US has included several banks into the sanctions list, just now. This move shows how desperate the US actually is. They are pushing heavily for economic warfare. If this is considered a serious move I'd say Moscow should watch the other way and let the NAF finish the job.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:[Ukraine's PM Yatsenyuk in 2012: Putin Is Russia's Saviour

Who knew minds could get so retarded so fast...

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

KomissarBojanchev wrote:[Ukraine's PM Yatsenyuk in 2012: Putin Is Russia's Saviour

Who knew minds could get so retarded so fast...

That's priceless. i do believe he thought he was going to be the next President of Ukraine, maybe, when he sold his soul to the USA, and the EU>