The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

Khepesh wrote:I guess people have seen the attempt today by ukrops attempting to "proove" that T-90A were involved in the operations to hit the ukrops around Novoannovka last year. This article demolishes this and shows that what ukrops have said is T-90A, is in fact a Bulat, the type of tank that ukrops 1st Tank Brigade were using in that area.
https://vk.com/id225150258?w=wall225150258_3143%2Fall

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Khepesh wrote:I guess people have seen the attempt today by ukrops attempting to "proove" that T-90A were involved in the operations to hit the ukrops around Novoannovka last year. This article demolishes this and shows that what ukrops have said is T-90A, is in fact a Bulat, the type of tank that ukrops 1st Tank Brigade were using in that area.
https://vk.com/id225150258?w=wall225150258_3143%2Fall

Err the article however misses somethings, if those pictures are genuine, there's little possible chance those systems were BM's, because of chassis, and turret shape. So while the pictures present a platoon of T90's, we don't know where they were taken. IMO this explains many things regarding Luhansk carnage in Novoannovka. Take this the way you want.

Khepesh wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Khepesh wrote:I guess people have seen the attempt today by ukrops attempting to "proove" that T-90A were involved in the operations to hit the ukrops around Novoannovka last year. This article demolishes this and shows that what ukrops have said is T-90A, is in fact a Bulat, the type of tank that ukrops 1st Tank Brigade were using in that area.
https://vk.com/id225150258?w=wall225150258_3143%2Fall

Err the article however misses somethings, if those pictures are genuine, there's little possible chance those systems were BM's, because of chassis, and turret shape. So while the pictures present a platoon of T90's, we don't know where they were taken. IMO this explains many things regarding Luhansk carnage in Novoannovka. Take this the way you want.

Ukrops mixed all sorts of pictures up from different times and places

Neutrality wrote:Recent developments show quite clearly that Poroshenko wants the war to resume because the economic collapse, thus the regime with it, is inescapable. So he decided that restarting the war and blaming it on the NAF will be a good argument when that happens. The only logical course of action here, in my eyes, is to go for complete, quick and utter annihilation of the Ukrainian army and what's left of it. This will create the exact opposite of what Poroshenko wants. A collapsing economy in that case, will be the least of his worries. People will be demanding the heads of the responsibles, maybe even literally.

Neutrality wrote:

Dforce wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Recent developments show quite clearly that Poroshenko wants the war to resume because the economic collapse, thus the regime with it, is inescapable. So he decided that restarting the war and blaming it on the NAF will be a good argument when that happens. The only logical course of action here, in my eyes, is to go for complete, quick and utter annihilation of the Ukrainian army and what's left of it. This will create the exact opposite of what Poroshenko wants. A collapsing economy in that case, will be the least of his worries. People will be demanding the heads of the responsibles, maybe even literally.

I would rather say that recent events shows quite clear that Ukraine goes to any length to provoke the peasants and workers militia to attack, I give you that.

Well that's a start. Just so that you don't forget in the future who broke the ceasefire.

Dforce wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

Dforce wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Recent developments show quite clearly that Poroshenko wants the war to resume because the economic collapse, thus the regime with it, is inescapable. So he decided that restarting the war and blaming it on the NAF will be a good argument when that happens. The only logical course of action here, in my eyes, is to go for complete, quick and utter annihilation of the Ukrainian army and what's left of it. This will create the exact opposite of what Poroshenko wants. A collapsing economy in that case, will be the least of his worries. People will be demanding the heads of the responsibles, maybe even literally.

I would rather say that recent events shows quite clear that Ukraine goes to any length to provoke the peasants and workers militia to attack, I give you that.

Well that's a start. Just so that you don't forget in the future who broke the ceasefire.

When you say "broke" it I would answer that it was not there, but I agree that Ukraine have done more then its fair share of that "breaking". However, Ukraine will not attack, they have vay too much to win if the seps attacks first.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

What do they have to win? If we are to believe the Current Western Narrative (CWN), Seps don't attack without Russian order...and thus Russian backing. So by any mean, any Separatist attack means smoldering Ukrainian hulks. If this is your "Uncle" battle, then I'm afraid you need to review your assessment of Ukraine's priorities.

Dforce wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

What do they have to win? If we are to believe the Current Western Narrative (CWN), Seps don't attack without Russian order...and thus Russian backing. So by any mean, any Separatist attack means smoldering Ukrainian hulks. If this is your "Uncle" battle, then I'm afraid you need to review your assessment of Ukraine's priorities.

Well I agree that the seps will not attack without Russian backing, but I also do not think that this backing will be the full power of the Russian forces. This is the Great Game played again, and Russia will not attacck full force since that will not lead to its desired goals.

Neutrality wrote:Uh oh, what's up OSCE? Suddenly reporting the truth?



"OSCE confirmed shelling of Gorlovka by Ukrainian army"

Godric wrote:

f*cking vermin, video brings back the level of the HaHol scum killing of civilians in cold blood .... how any so called civilised country can back Kiev is a mystery .... they have no shame

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Dforce wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

Dforce wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Recent developments show quite clearly that Poroshenko wants the war to resume because the economic collapse, thus the regime with it, is inescapable. So he decided that restarting the war and blaming it on the NAF will be a good argument when that happens. The only logical course of action here, in my eyes, is to go for complete, quick and utter annihilation of the Ukrainian army and what's left of it. This will create the exact opposite of what Poroshenko wants. A collapsing economy in that case, will be the least of his worries. People will be demanding the heads of the responsibles, maybe even literally.

I would rather say that recent events shows quite clear that Ukraine goes to any length to provoke the peasants and workers militia to attack, I give you that.

Well that's a start. Just so that you don't forget in the future who broke the ceasefire.

When you say "broke" it I would answer that it was not there, but I agree that Ukraine have done more then its fair share of that "breaking". However, Ukraine will not attack, they have vay too much to win if the seps attacks first.

What do they have to win? If we are to believe the Current Western Narrative (CWN), Seps don't attack without Russian order...and thus Russian backing. So by any mean, any Separatist attack means smoldering Ukrainian hulks. If this is your "Uncle" battle, then I'm afraid you need to review your assessment of Ukraine's priorities.

Khepesh wrote:Report on cassad that downtown Donetsk has been hit 15 minutes ago. He began the ticker again
http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2340017.html

Donetsk a short time ago

Neutrality wrote:

Cassad wrote:На ресурсах хунты сообщают с ссылкой на ОБСЕ, что в Донецк переброшены 11 РСЗО "Град" ВСН.

Translation: Junta's sources report (quoting OSCE) that the NAF has positioned 11 "Grad" installations near Donetsk.

Always nice to see the confirmation that OSCE is acting as a de facto spy organization. I think we've never been closer to resuming the war as today.

EDIT: Judging by this map ( http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/kot_ivanov/71733898/42710/42710_original.jpg ) it'd be wise to completely destroy VSU's positions at Svetlodarsk. It's got a cauldron written all over it.

flamming_python wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Dforce wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

Dforce wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Recent developments show quite clearly that Poroshenko wants the war to resume because the economic collapse, thus the regime with it, is inescapable. So he decided that restarting the war and blaming it on the NAF will be a good argument when that happens. The only logical course of action here, in my eyes, is to go for complete, quick and utter annihilation of the Ukrainian army and what's left of it. This will create the exact opposite of what Poroshenko wants. A collapsing economy in that case, will be the least of his worries. People will be demanding the heads of the responsibles, maybe even literally.

I would rather say that recent events shows quite clear that Ukraine goes to any length to provoke the peasants and workers militia to attack, I give you that.

Well that's a start. Just so that you don't forget in the future who broke the ceasefire.

When you say "broke" it I would answer that it was not there, but I agree that Ukraine have done more then its fair share of that "breaking". However, Ukraine will not attack, they have vay too much to win if the seps attacks first.

What do they have to win? If we are to believe the Current Western Narrative (CWN), Seps don't attack without Russian order...and thus Russian backing. So by any mean, any Separatist attack means smoldering Ukrainian hulks. If this is your "Uncle" battle, then I'm afraid you need to review your assessment of Ukraine's priorities.

In this case the CWN is entirely true, you'd have to be completely naive to believe that any major rebel action will start or stop now w/o the appropriate Russian order. They are completely dependent on Russia for supplies, intel, weapons, trade, diplomacy, political cover and Moscow has long installed its own people there who will follow their line (Zakharchenko et. all), while giving an exit route for the crazy soldiers of fortune such as Strelkov.

During the last rebel offensive I remember that it was hinted that the Russian observers 'moved aside', allowing the rebels to advance.

Neutrality wrote:The only logical course of action here, in my eyes, is to go for complete, quick and utter annihilation of the Ukrainian army and what's left of it.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Neutrality wrote:The only logical course of action here, in my eyes, is to go for complete, quick and utter annihilation of the Ukrainian army and what's left of it.

Not going to happen because every military defeat for Ukraine means more sanctions for Russia.

Civilians lives are meaningless in this war. Kiev can kill as many civilians as it wants without sanctions thrown at them. The only thing prohibited is military victories for the NAF.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Let's recall Debaltsevo...

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Report on cassad that downtown Donetsk has been hit 15 minutes ago. He began the ticker again
http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2340017.html

Donetsk a short time ago

So after 15 months of this war the junta is still able to shell downtown Donetsk

Dforce wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Let's recall Debaltsevo...

Yes, even I have to admit that was a brilliant Russian move. But it only worked because it was a done deal fast, and it  happened just after the Minsk II deal.

The same conditions are not there now.

flamming_python wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Dforce wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

Dforce wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Recent developments show quite clearly that Poroshenko wants the war to resume because the economic collapse, thus the regime with it, is inescapable. So he decided that restarting the war and blaming it on the NAF will be a good argument when that happens. The only logical course of action here, in my eyes, is to go for complete, quick and utter annihilation of the Ukrainian army and what's left of it. This will create the exact opposite of what Poroshenko wants. A collapsing economy in that case, will be the least of his worries. People will be demanding the heads of the responsibles, maybe even literally.

I would rather say that recent events shows quite clear that Ukraine goes to any length to provoke the peasants and workers militia to attack, I give you that.

Well that's a start. Just so that you don't forget in the future who broke the ceasefire.

When you say "broke" it I would answer that it was not there, but I agree that Ukraine have done more then its fair share of that "breaking". However, Ukraine will not attack, they have vay too much to win if the seps attacks first.

What do they have to win? If we are to believe the Current Western Narrative (CWN), Seps don't attack without Russian order...and thus Russian backing. So by any mean, any Separatist attack means smoldering Ukrainian hulks. If this is your "Uncle" battle, then I'm afraid you need to review your assessment of Ukraine's priorities.

In this case the CWN is entirely true, you'd have to be completely naive to believe that any major rebel action will start or stop now w/o the appropriate Russian order. They are completely dependent on Russia for supplies, intel, weapons, trade, diplomacy, political cover and Moscow has long installed its own people there who will follow their line (Zakharchenko et. all), while giving an exit route for the crazy soldiers of fortune such as Strelkov.

During the last rebel offensive I remember that it was hinted that the Russian observers 'moved aside', allowing the rebels to advance.

Flagship Victory wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Report on cassad that downtown Donetsk has been hit 15 minutes ago. He began the ticker again
http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2340017.html

Donetsk a short time ago

So after 15 months of this war the junta is still able to shell downtown Donetsk

Strange war. Seems to be in limbo. There is no negotiation, no ground offensive to take territory. Looks like time has stopped in Donetsk. Which, as you know, is exactly what a frozen conflict is about. Every day Donetsk is shelled. Every day people die. No one says a word about it. I don't expect this situation to change this year or the next. What is sure is come January 2017 the US will supply artillery and ammo to Maidan and the shelling will be much more intense than now when Maidan has limited shells to fire on Donetsk.

Karl Haushofer wrote:Yeah, it is better to stop caring about Donbass civilians. It does no good and just gets your blood pressure up.