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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

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    Vann7


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    Post  Vann7 Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:53 pm

    Something i noticed about Ukraine atleast in the zones in conflict or close to it.. is that is very
    flat terrain.. This is ideal for the Russian airforce or Russia precision long range artillery to quickly dominate the fight..  Also ideal for battle tanks if yours are the most powerful .Is  not like Lebanon for example.. or many parts in Syria that is full of hills with lots of places to hide and negate Airforce supremacy .

    In theory if the Russian airforce invades ukraine it should be easy for them to fly above
    Rebels controlled territory and fire air to land missiles to kiev positions in the front line from stand of position....and if for any reason their planes hit ,by manpads they could eject and land in Rebels territory ...  Ukraine zone of conflict is not ideal to fight Russia that will dominate in no time the air space and push the ukies away from the front line.

    This is the same for US airforce ,it will be in a major disadvantage trying to take control of Ukraine airspace if Russia deploys its S-400s missiles across the entire border ,with ukraine..
    not only in Russia but also in Belarus.. Russia can effectively declare a no fly zone over all Ukraine without invading it. Because of the proximity of Ukraine with Russia Air Defenses. and its landscape peculiarity of so many flat terrain. it will be suicide for NATO to send any airforce or Tanks there. Russia will have the upper hand ,because of their higher range/precision capabilities of combat.

    Cruise missiles like Tomahacks will be largely ineffective to hit anything in heavy electronic warfare environment. same with NATO drones.. In a fight with Russia ,The west will need to use
    less technology ,and more tactics, using visual range weapons ,world war 1 trench warfare ,to have a chance to fight.. Something no one in Europe , or US will do . Reason im not worried remotely about any NATO invasion to Ukraine.. Because they will never go into a fight ,that they will be in a major logistical disadvantage. without Air or Land supremacy and the ability to use any of its modern
    hardware and without satellites GPS help.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Karl Haushofer


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Karl Haushofer Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:09 pm

    Neutrality wrote:The gas issue shows the true nature of this government:

    -tells Russia that the 3 billion that was lent to Yanukovich is actually a bribe.
    -now they give Moscow the middle finger when they demand this debt to be repaid.
    -expect Moscow to simply follow Kiev's terms concerning the gas issue and give them a discount because fuck logic.
    -blame Russia for waging a war against Ukraine.

    These clowns have completely lost it. They expect Moscow to fold to their terms by continously insulting them.

    The funny thing is that Moscow will probably fold.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Guest Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:15 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Something i noticed about Ukraine atleast in the zones in conflict or close to it.. is that is very
    flat terrain.. This is ideal for the Russian airforce or Russia precision long range artillery to quickly dominate the fight..  Also ideal for battle tanks if yours are the most powerful .Is  not like Lebanon for example.. or many parts in Syria that is full of hills with lots of places to hide and negate Airforce supremacy .

    In theory if the Russian airforce invades ukraine it should be easy for them to fly above
    Rebels controlled territory and fire air to land missiles to kiev positions in the front line from stand of position....and if for any reason their planes hit ,by manpads they could eject and land in Rebels territory ...  Ukraine zone of conflict is not ideal to fight Russia that will dominate in no time the air space and push the ukies away from the front line.
    The Russian VVS would establish near total supremacy within hours, but the general environment of the war zone has already shown that a modern, a well equipped and well trained, and a coordinated army on the ground absolutely dominates the battlefield. See the near massacre at Ilovaisk for more details.

    With that said, I doubt an army like the US would have a lot of trouble when dealing with the Rebels at the levels they were at during Debaltsevo to be completely honest.
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    Post  auslander Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:32 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:That's a bad road!

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Khersons'ka+oblast,+Ukraine/@48.0476369,31.8973887,6z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x40c391434eef5487:0x101068488f64140

    Y'all ain't seen nothin', we've got worse right inside City, there's some roads we can't take our low slung minivan on. 23 years of orc theft and neglect and infrastructure is falling apart. It'll take two decades just to repair everything, let alone build new roads, gas, water and electric service to new housing areas.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:44 pm

    medo wrote:There is a little problem for Kiev. Crimea is now self sufficient and doesn't need anything from Ukraine and Novorussia is also not any more dependent on Ukraine. Russia could now simply say pay your debt and pay a market price for gas.

    Crimea is not self-sufficient and the Kremlin has not accepted yet that Novorussia should not depend on Ukraine.

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:The gas issue shows the true nature of this government:

    -tells Russia that the 3 billion that was lent to Yanukovich is actually a bribe.
    -now they give Moscow the middle finger when they demand this debt to be repaid.
    -expect Moscow to simply follow Kiev's terms concerning the gas issue and give them a discount because fuck logic.
    -blame Russia for waging a war against Ukraine.

    These clowns have completely lost it. They expect Moscow to fold to their terms by continously insulting them.

    The funny thing is that Moscow will probably fold.

    Unlikely, this about money, not other people's lives.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  higurashihougi Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:11 am

    Project Canada wrote:Ukrops beg Russia to lower oil prices for winter Laughing

    (...)

    http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-asks-russia-lower-gas-prices-winter-season-100206733--finance.html;_ylt=AwrC1C0DdOBVbV8Ar5fQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

    With that kind of language, I think Russia should sit back and watch Ukropstan freeze to oblivion russia

    Probably many Ukrainian people are thinking, what is the meaning of "maidan" in the first place if in the end they still have to buy Russian gas and pay back debt to Russia ?

    ======
    ======

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8tIKi02W3A&feature=youtu.be

    I cannot understand this video, but when looking at the description behind

    «Вы наркоман в другом плане...»
    «Вы из Украины? Так вас плохо учат истории в школе!»
    «Повторяете, как попугаи – агрессия, аннексия – за Америкой»

    Google Translation

    "You are a drug addict in another plan ... "
    " Are you from the Ukraine? So bad you teach history in school ! "
    " I repeat, like parrots - aggression , annexation - for America"

    My oh my.
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    Post  Boreas Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:55 am

    These elderly people pretty much owned that stupid jerk from Hromadske TV. The first gentleman was the best. He was well spoken, saying besides the other things that maidanuts were made to jump to shake their brains so they couldn't think straight and they were all high, given drugs in the tea. Idiot reporter just repeated "Were you there? Were you there?"

    I remember infamous debate on Hromadske TV with loud fat jew boasting that Donbass is full of useless people which should be all killed and hostess nodding.
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:25 am

    Potential flashpoint today in Odessa. At 1730 local a rally of activists not content with the new masters will be held at Kulikovo Pole. Maidanists are screaming for this rally to be smashed.
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:38 am

    If anyone bored.. can see this video report.. the guy is revealing info about
    US military recent exercises that are not normal and that they could be preparing
    for either a false flag event of a major limited war against Russia.  Looks like he captured
    some information of NATO exercises in Artic and possibly the exercises were training a preventive
    strike against Russia.



    There have been already a couple of reports since 2014.. of generals who supposedly
    refused to obey an order to use nuclear weapons and were fired.. But all this could be
    psicological warfare to scare Russia. In any case the guy in the video does a good analisis
    or the high potential of a war to happen..the conflict in Ukraine and US provoking Russia
    into a war.
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    Post  Erk Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:33 am

    Vann7 wrote:If anyone bored.. can see this video report.. the guy is revealing info about
    US military recent exercises that are not normal and that they could be preparing
    for either a false flag event of a major limited war against Russia.  Looks like he captured
    some information of NATO exercises in Artic and possibly the exercises were training a preventive
    strike against Russia.



    There have been already a couple of reports since 2014.. of generals who supposedly
    refused to obey an order to use nuclear weapons and were fired.. But all this could be
    psicological warfare to scare Russia. In any case the guy in the video does a good analisis
    or the high potential of a war to happen..the conflict in Ukraine and US provoking Russia
    into a war.

    Hollywood thinking I would say.

    America wants to annex Ukraine by proxy.

    The technique is printing fiat money to bribe oligarchs to form the junta government in Kiev, which then sells seats in the government for cash, and then helps foreigners buy up Ukrainian business assets. Meanwhile, oligarchs make off with $1.8billion in IMF loan money in plain sight, and all the Ukrainian gold reserves.

    The US does its foreign policy by using as little of it's own resources as possible other than fiat which costs them nothing, that's why NATO exists, so other countries can pay for the US to control their military assets, and the military industrial complex can sell more. NATO members are fools who bought into a scam. The sales pitch was fear Putin, or whoever they want to make the villain this week, and it works like a charm. The military industrial complex is making a fortune in profit, and the US gets to control the EU military to do whatever it wants.

    To stop this US world takeover requires countries to ditch using the $US as a reserve currency, and make America pay for their imports with work like everyone else does by devaluing the $US down to where it really belongs, based on their real export productivity not some trick. That way they will have less to spend on military and funding regime change.



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    Post  Viktor Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:42 am

    Nazi government doing its best

    S & P predicts a decline in GDP of Ukraine by 15% in 2015
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    Post  Erk Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:11 am

    Viktor wrote:Nazi government doing its best

    S & P predicts a decline in GDP of Ukraine by 15% in 2015

    Economies all around the world are contracting, to get a real comparison you have to look at GDP (PPP) not nominal GDP which people like S&P default to using.

    Here is their per capita GDP (PPP) http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp-per-capita-ppp

    It's less than half of what Russians, Belarusians, Polish earn. Ukraine was not doing very well by European standards, even before the junta took over the government. The economy is always being milked by the oligarchs, which holds back economic growth for the whole country. If you don't have the money to invest in plant and production because some oligarch is moving it offshore, then how can you grow?


    Last edited by Erk on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:23 am; edited 4 times in total
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    Post  gregoire Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:17 am

    Vann7 wrote:If anyone bored.. can see this video report.. the guy is revealing info about
    US military recent exercises that are not normal and that they could be preparing
    for either a false flag event of a major limited war against Russia.  Looks like he captured
    some information of NATO exercises in Artic and possibly the exercises were training a preventive
    strike against Russia.



    There have been already a couple of reports since 2014.. of generals who supposedly
    refused to obey an order to use nuclear weapons and were fired.. But all this could be
    psicological warfare to scare Russia. In any case the guy in the video does a good analisis
    or the high potential of a war to happen..the conflict in Ukraine and US provoking Russia
    into a war.

    It's about 48 minutes and then it repeats.
    It's an interesting analysis. I disagree about when he says that the american will or are going to take crimea if russia attacks. I don't think so. I also disagree when he talks about ukrainian nukes. Ukraine having nukes will be their own death sentence, full stop. I do agree when he says the elite is crazy because they are insane and there is plenty of proof of that. Nice to see his total confidence in the canadian army but at the end he admits they will be swept aside. Anyways, see it and listen for yourself.
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    Post  gregoire Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:24 am

    By the way, this guy Nardo Fuchs uploaded a shitload of videos on youtube in just a few hours. All about WW3 and why it's coming. Why now? Anyways, I disagree.
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    Post  Erk Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:41 am

    gregoire wrote:By the way, this guy Nardo Fuchs uploaded a shitload of videos on youtube in just a few hours. All about WW3 and why it's coming. Why now? Anyways, I disagree.

    I think he is a nutter, he can't even concentrate on the video, has to cook and walk around waving his hands as he talks, his body language is all wrong to be taken seriously.

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:12 pm

    Oooops. My highlight

    About 90 percent of the intelligence information obtained by Ukraine in the summer of 2014 has not been confirmed, according to Viktor Muzhenko, head the Ukrainian Armed Forces' General Staff. Ukraine's military chief of staff Viktor Muzhenko has acknowledged that almost 90 percent of intelligence information obtained by the army in the summer of 2014 did not correspond to reality, including the information on the presence of Russian troops in eastern Ukraine, the Ukrainian news website gazeta.zn.ua reported.

    Muzhenko recalled that "there is intelligence information, which we get, and there is intelligence data, which should be verified." "Last year, 90 percent of such information was not confirmed throughout the summer period of the anti-terrorist operation [in eastern Ukraine]," Muzhenko said.

    He, in particular, attributed the fact to what he described as an active operation by the opposite side to spread misinformation. "The General Staff only analyzed what had credibility and demanded attention, namely about 5-10 percent [of all intelligence information]," he said. Muzhenko also said that despite intelligence data about the possible presence of the regular units of the Russian armed forces in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region, the confirmation of this information was never received. "It means that our potential retaliation could have led to a full-scale war with Russia, which would consider itself a party that was attacked," he pointed out.

    Kiev has repeatedly accused Russia of sending its troops and weapons to supporters of the Donbass region's independence in eastern Ukraine, allegations that Moscow vehemently reject


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150829/1026336040/ukraine-army-intelligence-information-failure.html#ixzz3kCIuIKQN
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:16 pm

    Look closely at Saakashvili's pants, and then try to work out how that is even possible Shocked But even without his "costume malfunction" he looks a total dick.

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:18 pm

    Good old fashioned oligarch activity. "I'll take the money, the state can take the debt". Mr K is now safely in the US, sitting on his pile of dosh.

    Investigative reporters have discovered that IMF bailout funds intended for Ukraine have mysteriously found their way to a Cyprus bank account controlled by notorious Ukrainian oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi. A huge chunk of the $17 billion in bailout money the IMF granted to Ukraine in April 2014 has been discovered in a bank account in Cyprus controlled by exiled Ukrainian oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi, the German newspaper Deutsche Wirtshafts Nachrichten [DWN] reported on Thursday.

    In April last year $3.2 billion was immediately disbursed to Ukraine, and over the following five months, another $4.5 billion was disbursed to the Ukrainian Central Bank in order to stabilize the country's financial system. "The money should have been used to stabilize the country's ailing banks, but $1.8 billion disappeared down murky channels," writes DWN.

    Ihor Kolomoyskyi, the former governor of Dnipropetrovsk, is one of Ukraine's richest businessmen, with a business empire that includes holdings in the energy, media, aviation, chemical and metalwork industries. At the center of Kolomoyskyi's wealth is PrivatBank, Ukraine's largest financial institution, which claimed the bulk – 40 percent – of the bailout money which had been earmarked for stabilizing the banking system.

    "Theoretically, the IMF should retain direct control over the distribution of funds. In fact, it seems that the banks chose their own auditors."

    DWN notes that the IMF reported in January 2015 that the equity ratio of Ukraine's banking system had dropped to 13.8 percent, from 15.9 percent in late June 2014. By February 2015 even PrivatBank had to be saved from bankruptcy, and was given a 62 million Euro two-year loan from the Central Bank.

    "So where have the IMF's billions gone?"

    The racket executed by Kolomoyskyi's PrivatBank was uncovered by the Ukrainian anti-corruption initiative 'Nashi Groshi,' meaning 'our money' in Ukrainian.


    There is much more at: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150829/1026335133/kolomoyskyi-ukraine-corruption-cyprus-bank.html#ixzz3kCJzRodd
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    Post  gregoire Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:04 pm

    Erk wrote:
    gregoire wrote:By the way, this guy Nardo Fuchs uploaded a shitload of videos on youtube in just a few hours. All about WW3 and why it's coming. Why now? Anyways, I disagree.

    I think he is a nutter, he can't even concentrate on the video, has to cook and walk around waving his hands as he talks, his body language is all wrong to be taken seriously.


    There is clearly high anxiety and nervousness there, yes.
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    Post  franco Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:12 pm

    The Office of the President of Ukraine has released prove of Russian's involvement in the Donbas.
    The prove is that the NAF is organized like Russian forces therefore it is actually a "secret Russian Army" fighting against the Ukrainian Army. The force is only comprised of around 40% Donbas citizens, the rest being a few foreign volunteers with mostly Russian soldiers. Explains why the UAF has not been successful. This "secret army is pegged at 35,000 full time and 9,000 part time warriors.

    Russia’s “Secret” Army in Ukraine
    August 28, 2015

    Today the office of Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko released via Twitter important details about the organization and structure of Russia’s occupying army in Southeastern Ukraine. The order of battle (ORBAT) information is clearly derived from a lot of intelligence, especially SIGINT (I say this as someone who used to do ORBAT intelligence for a living: this is well done).

    Since most of my readers know neither Russian or Ukrainian, I’m passing on what Kyiv has released today in English. The translation isn’t great but it works. I’m providing comments below since most normals are not well acquainted with the nuances of Russian military organization.

    Russian Military Command, South-East Ukraine (Novocherkask):

    Commanding Officer (CO): GenCol A N. Serdyukov [1]

    1st Army Corps (“Donetsk People’s Republic” Military), HQ: Donetsk

    CO: GenMaj A.V. Zavizyon [2]

    CNgU3PPWoAAJrRK

    2nd Army Corps (“Luhansk People’s Republic” Military), HQ: Luhansk

    CO: GenMaj Y. V. Nikiforov [3]

    CNgU3GbWgAAL3oP

    The organization of the 1st and 2nd Corps, no surprise, corresponds exactly to the standard tables of organization and equipment (TO&E) of Russian Ground Forces. There are several maneuver brigades (“motor rifle” is the Russian term for mechanized in NATO parlance) supported by independent regiments and battalions. As Kyiv has announced, the 35,000 troops belonging to “DNR” and “LNR” forces are bolstered by 9,000 reservists. While some forty percent of the troops are locals, the rest are Russians plus a few mercenaries and foreign volunteers.

    The senior command staff are exclusively Russian officers assigned to the 1st and 2nd Corps — officially they are “not there” of course — while the operation is run, logistically and command-wise, from neighboring Russia.

    To anybody with a decent memory, this closely resembles the relationship during the 1992-95 Bosnian War, when the Bosnian Serb Army (VRS), while consisting largely of local rank-and-file troops, had most of its command, and nearly all of its financing and logistics, coming from neighboring Serbia and its military — which, in practice treated the VRS as merely as an extension of itself, as in fact it was.

    Needless to add, the “DNR” and “LNR” militaries would not last twenty-four hours without constant command and logistical support from Putin’s military. They are an extension of Russian Ground Forces and should be treated as such by the West. It’s time to end, once and for all, any fiction about “rebels” — these are Russian-controlled forces, led by Russian officers, supplied with Russian guns and ammunition, that are waging war inside Ukraine.

    Kudos to Kyiv for putting this important information out there as an aid to understanding what’s really going on in their country.

    http://20committee.com/2015/08/28/russias-secret-army-in-ukraine-2/
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    Post  kvs Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:21 pm

    Viktor wrote:Nazi government doing its best

    S & P predicts a decline in GDP of Ukraine by 15% in 2015

    I guess those forecaster clowns must have read the news.   They were predicting a 2% GDP drop but then Ukraine's GDP
    crashed by 17.6% as of the first quarter.   But these clowns are actually predicting that Ukraine's GDP will expand by over
    2.6% in the last three quarters of 2015.   In the real world the 2nd quarter is likely to be a net contraction on and any
    recovery will be in the second half.  

    As noted by another poster the world is in a recession (unlike in 2008 China is contributing to pulling it down) so why would
    there be any rebound in Ukraine at all?    So a more realistic forecast is for Ukraine's GDP to shrink by over 20% in 2015.
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    Post  Erk Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:30 pm

    franco wrote:
    Needless to add, the “DNR” and “LNR” militaries would not last twenty-four hours without constant command and logistical support from Putin’s military. They are an extension of Russian Ground Forces and should be treated as such by the West. It’s time to end, once and for all, any fiction about “rebels” — these are Russian-controlled forces, led by Russian officers, supplied with Russian guns and ammunition, that are waging war inside Ukraine.

    Kudos to Kyiv for putting this important information out there as an aid to understanding what’s really going on in their country.

    http://20committee.com/2015/08/28/russias-secret-army-in-ukraine-2/

    20committee.com is the same site that says Snowden is a fraud.

    If Kiev knows all this about how and where Russian military forces are, why is there still no decent video proof, and why is Kiev still shelling mainly civilian homes and buildings instead of this alleged Russian force?
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    Post  franco Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:49 pm

    Erk wrote:
    franco wrote:
    Needless to add, the “DNR” and “LNR” militaries would not last twenty-four hours without constant command and logistical support from Putin’s military. They are an extension of Russian Ground Forces and should be treated as such by the West. It’s time to end, once and for all, any fiction about “rebels” — these are Russian-controlled forces, led by Russian officers, supplied with Russian guns and ammunition, that are waging war inside Ukraine.

    Kudos to Kyiv for putting this important information out there as an aid to understanding what’s really going on in their country.

    http://20committee.com/2015/08/28/russias-secret-army-in-ukraine-2/

    20committee.com is the same site that says Snowden is a fraud.




    I used their quote as it was the first English translation of this information that I had seen. Spent last night translating Ukrainian and Russian versions but for our readers here, English is best. Of course, this explains to the Ukrainian people why their Army has not been successful and would not be surprised to see it used as grounds for requesting foreign military assistance in removing this "secret Russian army" occupying the Donbas. As most are aware, ORBAT's are my thing and I have been tracking both sides as much as possible. The ones released here are generally in line with what I have found and or suspected. The more truth in a lie makes it more believable. Both sides have a fairly good grasp on what the other side have. The NAF releasing planned invasion routes and units to be involved was their way of telling the UAF they were on to them. This is the UAF telling the NAF "Yeah!, but we know where you live too!" Old fashion psyops!
    EDIT; First of all I'm not saying the story is correct in that they are a Russian army. I'm saying that it is a pretty good view of the NAF organization. I'm also saying that I suspect that the Ukrainians will push this as why they need military assistance with the worst case scenario being NATO troops.
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    gregoire


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  gregoire Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:30 pm

    franco wrote:
    Erk wrote:
    franco wrote:
    Needless to add, the “DNR” and “LNR” militaries would not last twenty-four hours without constant command and logistical support from Putin’s military. They are an extension of Russian Ground Forces and should be treated as such by the West. It’s time to end, once and for all, any fiction about “rebels” — these are Russian-controlled forces, led by Russian officers, supplied with Russian guns and ammunition, that are waging war inside Ukraine.

    Kudos to Kyiv for putting this important information out there as an aid to understanding what’s really going on in their country.

    http://20committee.com/2015/08/28/russias-secret-army-in-ukraine-2/

    20committee.com is the same site that says Snowden is a fraud.




    I used their quote as it was the first English translation of this information that I had seen. Spent last night translating Ukrainian and Russian versions but for our readers here, English is best. Of course, this explains to the Ukrainian people why their Army has not been successful and would not be surprised to see it used as grounds for requesting foreign military assistance in removing this "secret Russian army" occupying the Donbas. As most are aware, ORBAT's are my thing and I have been tracking both sides as much as possible. The ones released here are generally in line with what I have found and or suspected. The more truth in a lie makes it more believable. Both sides have a fairly good grasp on what the other side have. The NAF releasing planned invasion routes and units to be involved was their way of telling the UAF they were on to them. This is the UAF telling the NAF "Yeah!, but we know where you live too!" Old fashion psyops!
    EDIT; First of all I'm not saying the story is correct in that they are a Russian army. I'm saying that it is a pretty good view of the NAF organization. I'm also saying that I suspect that the Ukrainians will push this as why they need military assistance with the worst case scenario being NATO troops.

    This is all being defused as we speak.
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    Nikander


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Nikander Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:55 pm

    franco wrote:The Office of the President of Ukraine has released prove of Russian's involvement in the Donbas.
    The prove is that the NAF is organized like Russian forces therefore it is actually a "secret Russian Army" fighting against the Ukrainian Army. The force is only comprised of around 40% Donbas citizens, the rest being a few foreign volunteers with mostly Russian soldiers. Explains why the UAF has not been successful. This "secret army is pegged at 35,000 full time and 9,000 part time warriors.

    Russia’s “Secret” Army in Ukraine
    August 28, 2015

    Today the office of Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko released via Twitter important details about the organization and structure of Russia’s occupying army in Southeastern Ukraine. The order of battle (ORBAT) information is clearly derived from a lot of intelligence, especially SIGINT (I say this as someone who used to do ORBAT intelligence for a living: this is well done).

    Since most of my readers know neither Russian or Ukrainian, I’m passing on what Kyiv has released today in English. The translation isn’t great but it works. I’m providing comments below since most normals are not well acquainted with the nuances of Russian military organization.

    Russian Military Command, South-East Ukraine (Novocherkask):

    Commanding Officer (CO): GenCol A N. Serdyukov [1]

    1st Army Corps (“Donetsk People’s Republic” Military), HQ: Donetsk

    CO: GenMaj A.V. Zavizyon [2]

    CNgU3PPWoAAJrRK

    2nd Army Corps (“Luhansk People’s Republic” Military), HQ: Luhansk

    CO: GenMaj Y. V. Nikiforov [3]

    CNgU3GbWgAAL3oP

    The organization of the 1st and 2nd Corps, no surprise, corresponds exactly to the standard tables of organization and equipment (TO&E) of Russian Ground Forces. There are several maneuver brigades (“motor rifle” is the Russian term for mechanized in NATO parlance) supported by independent regiments and battalions. As Kyiv has announced, the 35,000 troops belonging to “DNR” and “LNR” forces are bolstered by 9,000 reservists. While some forty percent of the troops are locals, the rest are Russians plus a few mercenaries and foreign volunteers.

    The senior command staff are exclusively Russian officers assigned to the 1st and 2nd Corps — officially they are “not there” of course — while the operation is run, logistically and command-wise, from neighboring Russia.

    To anybody with a decent memory, this closely resembles the relationship during the 1992-95 Bosnian War, when the Bosnian Serb Army (VRS), while consisting largely of local rank-and-file troops, had most of its command, and nearly all of its financing and logistics, coming from neighboring Serbia and its military — which, in practice treated the VRS as merely as an extension of itself, as in fact it was.

    Needless to add, the “DNR” and “LNR” militaries would not last twenty-four hours without constant command and logistical support from Putin’s military. They are an extension of Russian Ground Forces and should be treated as such by the West. It’s time to end, once and for all, any fiction about “rebels” — these are Russian-controlled forces, led by Russian officers, supplied with Russian guns and ammunition, that are waging war inside Ukraine.

    Kudos to Kyiv for putting this important information out there as an aid to understanding what’s really going on in their country.

    http://20committee.com/2015/08/28/russias-secret-army-in-ukraine-2/

    If Kiev says so it must be truth, especially if backed by such a genius military mind such us yourself. Of course they didn't back it up with any proof, Western own intelligence has dismissed all of that multiple times (except American intelligence, that great truth seekers), so all we have in the end is a nazi fuck who believes anything that fascist scum says. Kudos for being so open about your sick mind, and hopefully you'll be willing to do something about it. It's time for you to go to Donbass and fight "Putin's military" and put to use your genius.

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