The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

auslander wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:Are we now going to see the americans push back at russian involvement in syria by increasing the tension in ukraine?

If i were america/uk i would be delighted at them taking over in syria, though they must be gutted that they cant propapandise it as 'russian aggression' due to their own gagging for war in syria for the last four years.

I think The West has a bit more on their plate than they can chew. As I said earlier, the illegal migrant crisis alone is dragging EU down quite strongly, the monies this crisis will eat is astounding and to be blunt EU does not have the money needed for well over a million migrants who are guaranteed by EU law succor at the host country's expense. As you may have noticed many EU countries are suddenly promulgating 'temporary laws' to at least stem the tide of illegal migrants, that not being possible without using armed force and EU does not have the will to do so.

It is possible that Orcland will try to do something stupud but I think NAF can very well take care of themselves. I do expect some of the 'out of control' orc 'volunteer' battalions to start using heavy arty again but July and August was pretty hard on them when they did so, hence their willingness to accept a stand down. In other words they got slaughtered by NAF counter battery fire.

The next week or ten days will be interesting and for the world very dangerous. Neither side, RF or US/NATO, will blink unless they absolutely have to and I don't think VVP will blink.  

I agree. Also, as it is primarily the RuAF that is in action in Syria and Putin has ruled out the use of ground troops (that's the SAA and Iran's problem) , the RA will be champing at the bit to get some action somewhere too. Heaven help Ukraine if they do something stupid, all hell will be let loose.

auslander wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:Are we now going to see the americans push back at russian involvement in syria by increasing the tension in ukraine?

If i were america/uk i would be delighted at them taking over in syria, though they must be gutted that they cant propapandise it as 'russian aggression' due to their own gagging for war in syria for the last four years.

I think The West has a bit more on their plate than they can chew. As I said earlier, the illegal migrant crisis alone is dragging EU down quite strongly, the monies this crisis will eat is astounding and to be blunt EU does not have the money needed for well over a million migrants who are guaranteed by EU law succor at the host country's expense. As you may have noticed many EU countries are suddenly promulgating 'temporary laws' to at least stem the tide of illegal migrants, that not being possible without using armed force and EU does not have the will to do so.

It is possible that Orcland will try to do something stupud but I think NAF can very well take care of themselves. I do expect some of the 'out of control' orc 'volunteer' battalions to start using heavy arty again but July and August was pretty hard on them when they did so, hence their willingness to accept a stand down. In other words they got slaughtered by NAF counter battery fire.

The next week or ten days will be interesting and for the world very dangerous. Neither side, RF or US/NATO, will blink unless they absolutely have to and I don't think VVP will blink.  

I think the USA will blink. The American people do not want war with Russia.

I went to the NYTs this morning, imho, the newspaper that's Pres. Obama's mouthpiece:

John Kerry Rushes In Where Obama Will Not Tread

By PETER BAKERSEPT. 29, 2015

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/world/middleeast/john-kerry-rushes-in-where-obama-will-not-tread.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Also like you say, the US's plate is full

U.S. Strikes Taliban-Held Land Near Kunduz Airport as Afghan Crisis Deepens

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/world/asia/kunduz-afghanistan-taliban-fight.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

There's a map on the article where the attacks are.

& here's a map of the region, as it's on the border of Turkmenistan...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Turkmenistan/@51.0656633,41.8236926,3z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x3f65cb5574bc6ccb:0x7edd826b4169a491

Reports are the first RAF strikes have been made.

I think we are seeing a tectonic shift in the world as we know it. For the first time in many decades US has been told to stop something they are doing by a country that has the might to back up their words and apparently is judged willing to use that might. Russia has made no threats whatsoever that I know of as to what she may or may not do if US/NATO does not listen to the friendly advice but being an avid pupil of Mr. Putin I would say Mr. Putin never bluffs and never does anything without being in a position of strength.

I don't know if this shift is good, bad or indifferent but something has to be done about the continuous wars of the last 65 years, most started or abetted by US/NATO/EU one way or another although SSSR had their full share of misadventures, make no mistake of that.

My Lady, I read the NY Times articles and I agree completely with you, NYT is Obama's mouthpiece completely. Of interest this morning, and my lass and I discussed it during our long trip to City this morning, is I think Mr. Putin was given his answer concerning Mr. Assad, this answer from the Saudis in that Mr. Assad must go although I have precisely zero doubts that the answer emanated from Foggy Bottom and simply passed through Saudi mouths.

higurashihougi wrote:Dunno if anyone has posted here, but...

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150926/1027588389/poroshenko-sanctions-russia-donbass-elections.html

Poroshenko Vows to Expand Sanctions If Russia Backs Donbass Elections

Kiev should expand or extend sanctions against Russia should Moscow support the elections in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk people’s republics, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said on Saturday.

You don't need to read the rest

Yup and that was Saturday. Today, after a few days with the 'boss' in the US, we have this I posted earlier, so maybe not such a hard line after all.

Ukraine wants to clarify the process for local elections in Donetsk and Lugansk regions in the country’s east during the upcoming Normandy Quartet talks, Ukraine Deputy Head of the Presidential Administration Konstantin Eliseev told Sputnik.

UNITED NATIONS (Sputnik) — On October 25, Ukraine is scheduled to hold parliamentary elections. The Donetsk and Lugansk breakaway republics have announced plans to hold local elections on October 18 and November 1 respectively.

"We would like to achieve some tangible results, first of all, with regard to the modality of the local elections in certain areas in Donetsk and Lugansk," Eliseev said on Tuesday.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150930/1027756730/Ukraine-Wants-Electionsin-East-Clarified.html#ixzz3nEnaSpzB

auslander wrote:Reports are the first RAF strikes have been made.

I think we are seeing a tectonic shift in the world as we know it. For the first time in many decades US has been told to stop something they are doing by a country that has the might to back up their words and apparently is judged willing to use that might. Russia has made no threats whatsoever that I know of as to what she may or may not do if US/NATO does not listen to the friendly advice but being an avid pupil of Mr. Putin I would say Mr. Putin never bluffs and never does anything without being in a position of strength.

I don't know if this shift is good, bad or indifferent but something has to be done about the continuous wars of the last 65 years, most started or abetted by US/NATO/EU one way or another although SSSR had their full share of misadventures, make no mistake of that.

My Lady, I read the NY Times articles and I agree completely with you, NYT is Obama's mouthpiece completely. Of interest this morning, and my lass and I discussed it during our long trip to City this morning, is I think Mr. Putin was given his answer concerning Mr. Assad, this answer from the Saudis in that Mr. Assad must go although I have precisely zero doubts that the answer emanated from Foggy Bottom and simply passed through Saudi mouths.  

I'm not the only American who thinks "Saudi Arabia can fight their own wars, without any assist from us."

Whose force does Saudi think is going to be used?

I don't believe the American people will stand for our force to be used against him.

Kerry has just been on RT, I think live although I did not see it and can not find it. According to those who did listen to him he did everything but declare war on RF (I find that doubtful), Kerry reiterated that RF is welcome to 'assist' in the fight against ISIS but RF efforts are only welcome if the efforts are against ISIS, not to 'prop up the regime of Assad'. In other words RF in the eyes of US can only attack ISIS, attacks against the other 'freedom fighters' trying to destroy Syria are not allowed.

It's going to be a long night.

Of interest also is some west news are reporting that 'Russian ships' attacked anti Assad units in Syria. I know most of the Black Sea Flot is in the Med but it's supposedly for a training exercise. We'll know more as the evening progresses.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:.........
.........................................

I'm not the only American who thinks "Saudi Arabia can fight their own wars, without any assist from us."

Whose force does Saudi think is going to be used?

I don't believe the American people will stand for our force to be used against him.

Saudis are at the moment getting totally obliterated in Yemen.

Damn shame it does not get better coverage because it is beyond hilarious.They are losing armor and generals faster than Japan in 1945....

PapaDragon wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:.........
.........................................

I'm not the only American who thinks "Saudi Arabia can fight their own wars, without any assist from us."

Whose force does Saudi think is going to be used?

I don't believe the American people will stand for our force to be used against him.

Saudis are at the moment getting totally obliterated in Yemen.

Damn shame it does not get better coverage because it is beyond hilarious.They are losing armor and generals faster than Japan in 1945....

If what you are saying is true then it does not get coverage at all.

PapaDragon wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:.........
.........................................

I'm not the only American who thinks "Saudi Arabia can fight their own wars, without any assist from us."

Whose force does Saudi think is going to be used?

I don't believe the American people will stand for our force to be used against him.

Saudis are at the moment getting totally obliterated in Yemen.

Damn shame it does not get better coverage because it is beyond hilarious.They are losing armor and generals faster than Japan in 1945....

Quite so, but in the meantime the Saudis are totally destroying Yemen as in bombed back to pre stone age.

auslander wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:.........
.........................................

I'm not the only American who thinks "Saudi Arabia can fight their own wars, without any assist from us."

Whose force does Saudi think is going to be used?

I don't believe the American people will stand for our force to be used against him.

Saudis are at the moment getting totally obliterated in Yemen.

Damn shame it does not get better coverage because it is beyond hilarious.They are losing armor and generals faster than Japan in 1945....

Quite so, but in the meantime the Saudis are totally destroying Yemen as in bombed back to pre stone age.

The GCC military's and the Ukrappy's have many things in common, such as being lapdogs for NATO, the others being that they are extremely incompetent and pathetic at fighting other military factions, but also incredibly proficient and ruthless at killing civilians.

auslander wrote:Kerry has just been on RT, I think live although I did not see it and can not find it. According to those who did listen to him he did everything but declare war on RF (I find that doubtful), Kerry reiterated that RF is welcome to 'assist' in the fight against ISIS but RF efforts are only welcome if the efforts are against ISIS, not to 'prop up the regime of Assad'. In other words RF in the eyes of US can only attack ISIS, attacks against the other 'freedom fighters' trying to destroy Syria are not allowed.

It's going to be a long night.

Of interest also is some west news are reporting that 'Russian ships' attacked anti Assad units in Syria. I know most of the Black Sea Flot is in the Med but it's supposedly for a training exercise. We'll know more as the evening progresses.

Sounds like Kerry reflecting Obama's Monday UN speech basically saying 'we know what's best for you so you will do as we say'. Unfortunately for them the world seems to be moving on, they can't tell Russia or Syria what they can or cannot do without a UNSC resolution. If they keep on like this, especially if they keep holding off a UNSC resolution hitting supporters of ISIS, they will find themselves branded as de-facto ISIS supporters and not allowed to overfly Syria.


Ah, Tomahawkski in action. The timing of that very large exercise just off the Syrian coast was no accident. Who knows what is below the waves.

We seem to have gone a bit too far OT.

auslander wrote:Kerry has just been on RT, I think live although I did not see it and can not find it. According to those who did listen to him he did everything but declare war on RF (I find that doubtful), Kerry reiterated that RF is welcome to 'assist' in the fight against ISIS but RF efforts are only welcome if the efforts are against ISIS, not to 'prop up the regime of Assad'. In other words RF in the eyes of US can only attack ISIS, attacks against the other 'freedom fighters' trying to destroy Syria are not allowed.

It's going to be a long night.

Of interest also is some west news are reporting that 'Russian ships' attacked anti Assad units in Syria. I know most of the Black Sea Flot is in the Med but it's supposedly for a training exercise. We'll know more as the evening progresses.

Kerry and his US war machines are not invited into Syria, they are breaking international law. Russia is invited, and the Syrian government will tell them what they can and can't attack, not the US government.

There is a thread on the Syrian involvement here https://www.russiadefence.net/t368-russian-military-involvement-and-aid-to-syria

Back to MH-17, John Helmer has released a new thread on the background to the rules surrounding the investigation and the difficulties following the release by Australian coroners (only 25 or so fragments found) that I posted yesterday (incidentally this new thread says that the pilots sister has said that there were no fragments in his body!). Hiding the truth (my highlight), if that is the plan, in the modern Internet connected world could be tough.

The Dutch-Australian problem on November 5 became clearer a few days later, on November 14 in Melbourne, when two of the Australian pathologists and coronial court officers revealed publicly at an Asian coroners convention that there were no shrapnel wounds in the bodies of the MH1 passengers. Their report can be read here. Noone noticed the importance of the admission.

By the next month the evidence of the bodies was clearer. A Buk missile explosion, with release of more than 7,800 metal fragments raking the port (left) side of the aircraft, starting at the pilot’s cockpit and going back to Row 12, was impossible. An 8-page report commissioned by Coroner Gray and drafted for him by David Ranson, a pathologist who had been working at Hilversum and who was head of the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, was sent to the Australian victims. Gray’s purpose was to identify the cause of death and help the families understand how their loved ones had died, how swiftly, and if they had been conscious of what had befallen them.

That report was released to a reporter named Carolyn Ford. She read it, and then summarized for publication. She didn’t understand the significance of what Ranson had revealed. Ranson himself was still unclear on this last month when he freely chatted. He said he had had regular debriefings and discussions with the Australian Federal Police on his findings. He denied that his use of the term “missile” in his reports meant a Buk. “Don’t confuse the meaning of the phrase, ‘missile injuries’. It means flying objects that strike the body’.” They were “rare”, Ranson has reported.

The whole thing is at http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14240

Jageraus, i do feel the same way as you on this. It feels like the political sands have shifted under our feet massively this past few days, and I think from thsi day forward the world is going to start to become a very different place.

Naturally the west is blind to this, it cant see past the end of its nose and misses whats obvious to us. A report on the bbc basically describes russian actions as 'russia trying to gain recognition once more as a world power'. It ignores the gravity of the situation and what this means for the former unipolar world. This isnt some tinpot dictatorship in the middle of africa, russia clearly means business and has the ability and the balls to do whats necessary. And nobody, not even the USA can do anything about it. The sooner the west wakes up and accepts reality the better it will be for all.

They should also understand that this reemergence of russia is a sign of things to come on a larger scale when china begins to dominate in a few years. This should be a wake up call that they need a friendly russia and not one allied with china.

Rodinazombie wrote:Jageraus, i do feel the same way as you on this. It feels like the political sands have shifted under our feet massively this past few days, and I think from thsi day forward the world is going to start to become a very different place.

Naturally the west is blind to this,  it cant see past the end of its nose and misses whats obvious to us. A report on the bbc basically describes russian actions as 'russia trying to gain recognition once more as a world power'. It ignores the gravity of the situation and what this means for the former unipolar world. This isnt some tinpot dictatorship in the middle of africa, russia clearly means business and has the ability and the balls to do whats necessary. And nobody, not even the USA can do anything about it. The sooner the west wakes up and accepts reality the better it will be for all.

They should also understand that this reemergence of russia is a sign of things to come on a larger scale when china begins to dominate in a few years. This should be a wake up call that they need a friendly russia and not one allied with china.

Yes, foreign policy under Pres Obama has really screwed up. (in my humble opinion)

As Pres Putin said, there are things the U.S., the E.U.,  and Russia can cooperate on, ISIS being one.

higurashihougi wrote:

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/yatsenyuk-says-russias-retaliatory-sanctions-against-ukrainian-airlines-are-groundless-398998.html

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk has said that Russia's retaliatory sanctions against Ukrainian airlines are groundless.

(Comments from Kyiv Post, no wonder support for Asswenuts in Ukraina is 0% https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/02/24/05/kyiv10.png)

"Groundless." 
Yats showing his lack of grammatical finesse.

Of course the word might not be a direct translation in meaning,  still funny though.

Xaxaxa right sextoy.. made me spill my morning coffee

Kiev is preparing to withdraw heavy artillery of less than 100mm caliber from the eastern Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, Ukrainian Defense Minister Stepan Poltorak said Thursday.

KIEV (Sputnik) – “Work on preparations for withdrawal is under way…we are fulfilling all of the Minsk agreement demands and are ready for this work as well,” Poltorak said.

On Tuesday, an agreement was initialed in Minsk on the withdrawal of weapons of less than 100mm caliber as well as tanks from the line of contact in the country’s eastern regions. On Wednesday, Kiev, Donetsk, and Luhansk signed the agreement.

The agreement on the pullback of this caliber of weapon, which the security subgroup of the Trilateral Contact Group on the settlement of the crisis in Ukraine drew up in August, remained a controversial topic between the warring sides until recent weeks.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151001/1027830948/kiev-donbass-arms-withdrawal.html#ixzz3nJFvcZZt

JohninMK wrote:Back to MH-17, John Helmer has released a new thread on the background to the rules surrounding the investigation and the difficulties following the release by Australian coroners (only 25 or so fragments found) that I posted yesterday (incidentally this new thread says that the pilots sister has said that there were no fragments in his body!). Hiding the truth (my highlight), if that is the plan, in the modern Internet connected world could be tough.

The Dutch-Australian problem on November 5 became clearer a few days later, on November 14 in Melbourne, when two of the Australian pathologists and coronial court officers revealed publicly at an Asian coroners convention that there were no shrapnel wounds in the bodies of the MH1 passengers. Their report can be read here. Noone noticed the importance of the admission.

By the next month the evidence of the bodies was clearer. A Buk missile explosion, with release of more than 7,800 metal fragments raking the port (left) side of the aircraft, starting at the pilot’s cockpit and going back to Row 12, was impossible. An 8-page report commissioned by Coroner Gray and drafted for him by David Ranson, a pathologist who had been working at Hilversum and who was head of the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, was sent to the Australian victims. Gray’s purpose was to identify the cause of death and help the families understand how their loved ones had died, how swiftly, and if they had been conscious of what had befallen them.

That report was released to a reporter named Carolyn Ford. She read it, and then summarized for publication. She didn’t understand the significance of what Ranson had revealed. Ranson himself was still unclear on this last month when he freely chatted. He said he had had regular debriefings and discussions with the Australian Federal Police on his findings. He denied that his use of the term “missile” in his reports meant a Buk. “Don’t confuse the meaning of the phrase, ‘missile injuries’. It means flying objects that strike the body’.” They were “rare”, Ranson has reported.

The whole thing is at http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14240

Does it smell, what I think it smells? Good asset, mister Helmer.

"U.S. President Barack Obama authorized a deal to send $20 million of sophisticated radar equipment to Ukraine, Business Insider reported Wednesday. The Pentagon had been discussing the radar for months, but it wasn't until a high-profile meeting between Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin that Obama decided to finalize the deal. U.S. President Barack Obama authorized a deal to send $20 million of sophisticated radar equipment to Ukraine, Business Insider reported Wednesday. The Pentagon had been discussing the radar for months, but it wasn't until a high-profile meeting between Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin that Obama decided to finalize the deal.

The equipment to be provided by the U.S. will be AN/TPQ-36 radar systems that can target the point of origin of missiles from between 18-24 kilometers (11-15 miles) away. The equipment is so precise that it can originate the location of a missile or artillery weapon after a single shot.Nearly 75 percent of the fatalities experienced on the Ukrainian side, according Ukraine's Ministry of Defense, have been because of artillery or missile attacks, and the new radar equipment could be a game changer for the Ukrainian military. The Ukrainian military was attacked by pro-Russian separatists in the Donbass region Wednesday, the Kyiv Post reported. No fatalities have been reported from Wednesday's attack.



The U.S. decision to send the radar could have very significant consequences for the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine, some experts said. "Washington's willingness to move forward with radars sends a clear signal that the U.S. may consider sending lethal weapons should the Minsk II process fail," said Adrian Karatnycky, an analyst for the Atlantic Council, a defense and security think tank. "In the long term, the West must help Ukraine's arms industry modernize, which can be modeled on the successful efforts undertaken in Poland and other Central European states," Karatnycky said."

How many is 22mil of these radars idk, some old price from late 90s says one costs 1,5million USD, but that probably different by now.

Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/october_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/us_to_send_20$_million_of_sophisticated_radar_an/tpq-36_to_ukraine_4011020152.html

^^^^^^^^

'Different outcome'

'Game changer'

LOL, these idiots dont learn. A monkey with a hand grenade is still a monkey with a hand grenade even if you give him shiny new radars.

JohninMK wrote:Back to MH-17, John Helmer has released a new thread on the background to the rules surrounding the investigation and the difficulties following the release by Australian coroners (only 25 or so fragments found) that I posted yesterday (incidentally this new thread says that the pilots sister has said that there were no fragments in his body!). Hiding the truth (my highlight), if that is the plan, in the modern Internet connected world could be tough.

The Dutch-Australian problem on November 5 became clearer a few days later, on November 14 in Melbourne, when two of the Australian pathologists and coronial court officers revealed publicly at an Asian coroners convention that there were no shrapnel wounds in the bodies of the MH1 passengers. Their report can be read here. Noone noticed the importance of the admission.

By the next month the evidence of the bodies was clearer. A Buk missile explosion, with release of more than 7,800 metal fragments raking the port (left) side of the aircraft, starting at the pilot’s cockpit and going back to Row 12, was impossible. An 8-page report commissioned by Coroner Gray and drafted for him by David Ranson, a pathologist who had been working at Hilversum and who was head of the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, was sent to the Australian victims. Gray’s purpose was to identify the cause of death and help the families understand how their loved ones had died, how swiftly, and if they had been conscious of what had befallen them.

That report was released to a reporter named Carolyn Ford. She read it, and then summarized for publication. She didn’t understand the significance of what Ranson had revealed. Ranson himself was still unclear on this last month when he freely chatted. He said he had had regular debriefings and discussions with the Australian Federal Police on his findings. He denied that his use of the term “missile” in his reports meant a Buk. “Don’t confuse the meaning of the phrase, ‘missile injuries’. It means flying objects that strike the body’.” They were “rare”, Ranson has reported.

The whole thing is at http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14240

I read all the article. Part said that the pilot's body showed no signs of shrapnel or bullets, yet there is the photo of one of the pilots, not sure if captain or first-officer, with several large holes, sort of 30mm size, in his thorax. That, and other photos, were taken by a Dutch journalist at the scene before the bodies were removed, yet his photos seem to be totaly ignored by anybody from the "It was Putin" camp. I still do not understand how Australia, admittedly with twenty or so dead on MH17, seem to be controlling the investigation and ordering the Dutch and Malaysians about like servants, and to the extent that armed Australians are in Holland, wtf...   The only reason for this bizarre nonsense I can think of is that it they know it was Kiev's fault, but for political reasons cannot admit this while the junta is still in power. Maybe it had been presumed that Poroshenko would have fallen by now and disclosure of the truth would be less damaging, but as he is still in power the nonsense continues. I have no issues with individual Australians, but there seems to be something wrong with them collectively. All this bizarre arrogant crap with MH17, and it is still remembered that some of the worst and most butthurt posters and mods at MP were Australian.