Project 955: Borei class SSBN

Big_Gazza wrote:There is an alternative view - that while current treaties limit the number of warheads, such a restriction cannot be guaranteed as the US could elect to withdraw from START should relations degrade catastrophically.  It makes sense to build SSBNs that can meet peace time treaty limits while only using (for example) 70% of total installed missile throw weight, and which have the option to sacrifice penetration aids to significantly upgrade the warhead load if required.  

Cost is probably the major determining factor - ie which is less expensive?  Adding 4x tubes to 5x Borei Mk II (ie 20 tubes total) or an extra Borei Mk I+ with the system upgrades but retaining the original complement of 16 tubes?  I'd guess the extra boomer is a significantly higher cost? Plus the extra SSBN needs to be operated (extra crew trained) and maintained.

Good point... There is no guarantee that START will still be "enforced" in coming years, so having more missiles with more warheads would be a huge advantage (if this were to occur). I personally think 16 is enough, and that UKSK could go where the other 4 missiles would be for self-defense purposes. What good is 20 missiles if you can't defend them!

The SSBN fleet is one leg of a nuclear triad that is supposed to be a deterrent.

There is no point in making it cheap if it is also vulnerable because you only have 6 SSBNs... and at any one time 4 of them are tied up at the pier...

In fact I saw one proposal to do away with SSBNs and just fit two SLBM tubes in each SSN and have them everywhere...

That isn't a bad idea at all... It is almost guaranteed that the US/EU navies first priority is sinking the Deltas and other SSBNs. That way they couldn't tell the difference between SSNs and the "double SLBM" SSN.

Or they could make the 20 tube Borei's fitted with cruise missiles in 4 tubes, or dedicated Borei's with UKSK tubes in place of nukes, but could be refitted for SLBM's if relations (START treaty) break down.

GarryB wrote:The SSBN fleet is one leg of a nuclear triad that is supposed to be a deterrent.

There is no point in making it cheap if it is also vulnerable because you only have 6 SSBNs... and at any one time 4 of them are tied up at the pier...

In fact I saw one proposal to do away with SSBNs and just fit two SLBM tubes in each SSN and have them everywhere...

Well there's 10 Borei boats planned and the Delfins are planned to be around concurrently with them for a while yet. By the time they start building "5th generation" SSBNs the force will be healthy enough.

"Delfins"?

10 Boreis is great, especially if they do what Magnum just suggested...

Mike E wrote:"Delfins"?

10 Boreis is great, especially if they do what Magnum just suggested...

Delfin = Project 667BDRM
Kalmar = Project 667BDR

and so on

That's right! I completely forgot... I'd rather have Russia scrap the Deltas sooner then later, they are really beginning to age!

The Delta IV is a good boat with excellent missiles... no hurry to get rid of it.

GarryB wrote:The Delta IV is a good boat with excellent missiles... no hurry to get rid of it.

yes and most of them built in early 90s, they arent so old

Nice

Nuclear submarine "Vladimir Monomakh" passed the test for silent

Great! I wonder if they are quieter versus the first model... - Being built in somewhat different ways on slightly different hulls, and now the addition of more missiles.

They will not have 20 tubes, but 16.

The information regarding the tube increase was later refuted.

GarryB wrote:The Delta IV is a good boat with excellent missiles... no hurry to get rid of it.

They may not be that old, but they might as well of kept the Typhoons and gotten rid of the Deltas... Either way the base design is aging.

To TR1, where did you hear that? Even recent reports say the opposite...

What credible recent reports?

I could redirect that question to you... - I'll look for one.

Well you have this:

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20130220/923813018.html

vs some RT nonsense.

Take your pick.

My bad... Sources say otherwise...

Russia’s nuclear submarine Vladimir Monomakh has departed its port to hold a test launch of the intercontinental ballistic Bulava (SS-NX-32) missile in the North Sea.

MOSCOW, September 9 (RIA Novosti) – Russia’s nuclear submarine Vladimir Monomakh has departed its port to hold a test launch of the intercontinental ballistic Bulava (SS-NX-32) missile in the North Sea, a source in the Sevmash Shipyard told RIA Novosti on Tuesday.

“The nuclear-powered submarine, the Vladimir Monomakh, has left Sevmash, the ship has been preliminarily prepared, and it should return before September 11,” the source said.

Earlier, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said that two launches would take place in 2014. The first would be from the Vladimir Monomakh in September, and the second would be in November.

Bulava is Russia's cutting-edge intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM). Equipped with 10 warheads with a 9,000-kilometer range, it is even capable of withstanding nuclear attack.

Test launches of the Bulava have been experiencing some problems. Last September during state trials of the Aleksander Nevsky nuclear-powered submarine a Bulava rocket experienced a malfunction. Following this incident Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu ordered to hold five additional launches of Bulava missiles.

Intercontinental ballistic missile R-30 Bulava should become primary weapon for ballistic missile submarines of the Borei class (Project 955), which is intended to replace the Delta III, Delta IV and Typhoon classes now in Russian Navy service.

The main submarine of this project is Yury Dolgoruky. By now there have been 19 test launches, with 8 of them successful, 4 partially successful and the rest unsuccessful. The last test took place last September in the White Sea.

Both these launches are going to be crucial.. Hopefully they end in success!

http://russianforces.org/blog/2014/09/successful_bulava_launch_from.shtml

The launch was a success.

Big_Gazza wrote:

Vympel wrote:http://russianforces.org/blog/2014/09/successful_bulava_launch_from.shtml

The launch was a success.

Excellent news!!!

Damn right

Vympel wrote:http://russianforces.org/blog/2014/09/successful_bulava_launch_from.shtml

The launch was a success.

This is HUGE! 

Yury Dolgoruky submarine to test-fire Bulava missile with full missile set aboard