Russian Su-24 shootdown by Turkish Air Force F-16 fighter

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Militarov wrote:"Chechen Mujahideen are waiting for orders from Erdogan, the leader of the Muslim people."

Source: http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/cecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308
Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yenisafak.com%2Fdunya%2Fcecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308&edit-text=

They do not need to wait, Russian government is already under tributary control of Chechnya.


Recently in August or September, 2015, the local government in the city of Zamosc, Poland, requested the Russian government for some funds to renovate a monument dedicated to the genocided Soviet POWs from the Second World War; Russian government replied that "there is no money for such things until 2017."

What is very interesting is that recently the largest water fountain in either Europe or the world was constructed in Grozny, Chechnya.

It appears there was money for that.

Can you believe it?

They were making fun of Russia about it on Stormfront; they even showed a dilapidated hospital in Russia, and asked where is the money for that?

Just out of curiosity, how does your comment relate to the subject of the thread? Looks like spam to me.

Firebird wrote:

Mustafa wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Guys, guys,

I am surprised that you have filled so many pages discussing this kind of stuff with the user Mustafa.

Considering that Turkey is a very primitive form of an Orwellian society, this user can only be an agent of those same foreign entities that are immediately in charge of that society; otherwise, he would have already been arrested for even posting the material he has posted here. What would be then the point of having conversations with him. This is his day job; he is a Tom Parsons.

If you believe our nation pays me to argue with deluded internet warriors, then you must be deluded beyond repair.

I was worried for business and wondered how russians react. I saw real russians are cool headed. The other idiots here just serve my entertainment. I´m hat home with the flu the week and guys like you help me to beat up some time.

Think its a bit late for that, Mr Terroristsupporter...

Comedy wanker, maybe u can try cleaning toilets in Europe instead..?HAHA
Personally, I'd like to find a toilet big enough to flush you down.

That was uncalled for against Mustafa. He has not shown any general hostility towards Russia that most Poles, Balts and Finns do.

JohninMK wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Militarov wrote:"Chechen Mujahideen are waiting for orders from Erdogan, the leader of the Muslim people."

Source: http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/cecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308
Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yenisafak.com%2Fdunya%2Fcecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308&edit-text=

They do not need to wait, Russian government is already under tributary control of Chechnya.


Recently in August or September, 2015, the local government in the city of Zamosc, Poland, requested the Russian government for some funds to renovate a monument dedicated to the genocided Soviet POWs from the Second World War; Russian government replied that "there is no money for such things until 2017."

What is very interesting is that recently the largest water fountain in either Europe or the world was constructed in Grozny, Chechnya.

It appears there was money for that.

Can you believe it?

They were making fun of Russia about it on Stormfront; they even showed a dilapidated hospital in Russia, and asked where is the money for that?

Just out of curiosity, how does your comment relate to the subject of the thread? Looks like spam to me.

The question is that the Russian government has its priorities upside down.

Paying tributes to the Chechens, and at the same time, trying to take on the Turks?

I would cease the tributary payments first.

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Militarov wrote:"Chechen Mujahideen are waiting for orders from Erdogan, the leader of the Muslim people."

Source: http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/cecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308
Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yenisafak.com%2Fdunya%2Fcecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308&edit-text=

They do not need to wait, Russian government is already under tributary control of Chechnya.


Recently in August or September, 2015, the local government in the city of Zamosc, Poland, requested the Russian government for some funds to renovate a monument dedicated to the genocided Soviet POWs from the Second World War; Russian government replied that "there is no money for such things until 2017."

What is very interesting is that recently the largest water fountain in either Europe or the world was constructed in Grozny, Chechnya.

It appears there was money for that.

Can you believe it?

They were making fun of Russia about it on Stormfront; they even showed a dilapidated hospital in Russia, and asked where is the money for that?

Just out of curiosity, how does your comment relate to the subject of the thread? Looks like spam to me.

The question is that the Russian government has its priorities upside down.

Paying tributes to the Chechens, and at the same time, trying to take on the Turks?

I would cease the tributary payments first.

Different part of the Russian Government budget but still OT.

JohninMK wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Militarov wrote:"Chechen Mujahideen are waiting for orders from Erdogan, the leader of the Muslim people."

Source: http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/cecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308
Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yenisafak.com%2Fdunya%2Fcecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308&edit-text=

They do not need to wait, Russian government is already under tributary control of Chechnya.


Recently in August or September, 2015, the local government in the city of Zamosc, Poland, requested the Russian government for some funds to renovate a monument dedicated to the genocided Soviet POWs from the Second World War; Russian government replied that "there is no money for such things until 2017."

What is very interesting is that recently the largest water fountain in either Europe or the world was constructed in Grozny, Chechnya.

It appears there was money for that.

Can you believe it?

They were making fun of Russia about it on Stormfront; they even showed a dilapidated hospital in Russia, and asked where is the money for that?

Just out of curiosity, how does your comment relate to the subject of the thread? Looks like spam to me.

The question is that the Russian government has its priorities upside down.

Paying tributes to the Chechens, and at the same time, trying to take on the Turks?

I would cease the tributary payments first.

Different part of the Russian Government budget but still OT.

They cannot firmly deal with the Chechens, and they want to take on the Turks?

That question is very much on topic!

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Militarov wrote:"Chechen Mujahideen are waiting for orders from Erdogan, the leader of the Muslim people."

Source: http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/cecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308
Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yenisafak.com%2Fdunya%2Fcecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308&edit-text=

They do not need to wait, Russian government is already under tributary control of Chechnya.


Recently in August or September, 2015, the local government in the city of Zamosc, Poland, requested the Russian government for some funds to renovate a monument dedicated to the genocided Soviet POWs from the Second World War; Russian government replied that "there is no money for such things until 2017."

What is very interesting is that recently the largest water fountain in either Europe or the world was constructed in Grozny, Chechnya.

It appears there was money for that.

Can you believe it?

They were making fun of Russia about it on Stormfront; they even showed a dilapidated hospital in Russia, and asked where is the money for that?

Just out of curiosity, how does your comment relate to the subject of the thread? Looks like spam to me.

The question is that the Russian government has its priorities upside down.

Paying tributes to the Chechens, and at the same time, trying to take on the Turks?

I would cease the tributary payments first.

Different part of the Russian Government budget but still OT.

They cannot firmly deal with the Chechens, and they want to take on the Turks?

That question is very much on topic!

Maybe you should find an appropriate place for comments regardiing chechnia or if you want to talk monuments, there is a monuments thread that you may be interested in. There is also a russian economics theead where you can discuss how the russian government is spending its budget.

Here, ill help you,

Economy https://www.russiadefence.net/t4513-russian-economy-general-news-6

Monuments https://www.russiadefence.net/t2578-russian-monuments

Terrorism https://www.russiadefence.net/t1269-terrorism-in-russia-incidents-and-dealing

The terrorism thread you may wish to look at to see how firm a grip russia has on unruly groups in the caucausus.




 Otherwise, try to keep on topic.

Rodinazombie wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Militarov wrote:"Chechen Mujahideen are waiting for orders from Erdogan, the leader of the Muslim people."

Source: http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/cecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308
Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yenisafak.com%2Fdunya%2Fcecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308&edit-text=

They do not need to wait, Russian government is already under tributary control of Chechnya.


Recently in August or September, 2015, the local government in the city of Zamosc, Poland, requested the Russian government for some funds to renovate a monument dedicated to the genocided Soviet POWs from the Second World War; Russian government replied that "there is no money for such things until 2017."

What is very interesting is that recently the largest water fountain in either Europe or the world was constructed in Grozny, Chechnya.

It appears there was money for that.

Can you believe it?

They were making fun of Russia about it on Stormfront; they even showed a dilapidated hospital in Russia, and asked where is the money for that?

Just out of curiosity, how does your comment relate to the subject of the thread? Looks like spam to me.

The question is that the Russian government has its priorities upside down.

Paying tributes to the Chechens, and at the same time, trying to take on the Turks?

I would cease the tributary payments first.

Different part of the Russian Government budget but still OT.

They cannot firmly deal with the Chechens, and they want to take on the Turks?

That question is very much on topic!

Maybe you should find an appropriate place for comments rgarding chechnia or if you want to talk momuments, there is a monuments thread that you may be interested in.  Otherwise, try to keep on topic.

The monument thing was only used as an example, and sometimes examples are necessary to illustrate a situation.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Firebird wrote:

Mustafa wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Guys, guys,

I am surprised that you have filled so many pages discussing this kind of stuff with the user Mustafa.

Considering that Turkey is a very primitive form of an Orwellian society, this user can only be an agent of those same foreign entities that are immediately in charge of that society; otherwise, he would have already been arrested for even posting the material he has posted here. What would be then the point of having conversations with him. This is his day job; he is a Tom Parsons.

If you believe our nation pays me to argue with deluded internet warriors, then you must be deluded beyond repair.

I was worried for business and wondered how russians react. I saw real russians are cool headed. The other idiots here just serve my entertainment. I´m hat home with the flu the week and guys like you help me to beat up some time.

Think its a bit late for that, Mr Terroristsupporter...

Comedy wanker, maybe u can try cleaning toilets in Europe instead..?HAHA
Personally, I'd like to find a toilet big enough to flush you down.

That was uncalled for against Mustafa. He has not shown any general hostility towards Russia that most Poles, Balts and Finns do.

Bullshit. The individual has made it extremely clear. It backs Erdogan who makes no apologies for killing those who confront ISIS and connected terrorist gps eg the ones who took down the Sharm El Shayk jet.

Terrorist propaganda is still terrorist, regardless of the "come here on holiday" shit the individual posts it with. Check out ALL the thread. Its one sick individual.

"We believe Turkey is not just a neighbor and friendly nation, almost an ally - so rudely and thoughtlessly destroyed," - said the head of state. "It is a pity," - he added.

"We did not think, we can get a hit from a country, which we consider as an ally," - said Putin. "That is why we consider this treacherous blow," -


http://lenta.ru/news/2015/11/26/putin_turkey/

Putin and his crocodile tears, and continued retarded statements. Turkey an ally?! Sponsoring jihadists, ISIS and destroying Syria.

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Recently in August or September, 2015, the local government in the city of Zamosc, Poland, requested the Russian government for some funds to renovate a monument dedicated to the genocided Soviet POWs from the Second World War; Russian government replied that "there is no money for such things until 2017."

.
Can you believe it?

Gimme the link ( in polish language).

Mustafa wrote:

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Mustafa wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

I don't know anything about this issue - what did Assad do to the Turkmens? Why will they never accept Assad?

I think most Syrians love Assad, otherwise he would have long ago crumbled. Most of the Syrian population is under his rule (~70%). The SAA has plenty of Sunni soldiers and officers.

I hope you realize that what you said about Turkmen and Sunnis in Syria, someone could say about the Kurds in Turkey too. Most of them hate the AKP and Erdogan, and some of those - hate the Turkish state and wish for their own one.

Assad used poison gas on his own people as well as barrel bombs. The turkmens are safe from him because our protection.

Let me ask you something, would you allow that a tyrant who used poison gas on his own people is in charge over some of your people? The russians intervened in crimea for far less than that.

Putin knows this and evryone knows Putin will drop Assad sooner or later. We are in the endgame here. Evry site want to achieve the best outcome for itself. I know that russia must keep that Assad thing running but in the end will drop him.

Just explain me how you will hold syria alive when evry single government around it break off diplomatic relations, keep supporting anti assad groups?

I´m full supporting crushing ISIS, PKK, Al Nusra and all those monsters. But Assad is a red line. There is no scenario where Assad can be accepted from Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, USA, Israel. Its plain and simple impossible.

Shouldn't his people decide that and not a bunch of foreign governments?
We should help them to be able to make a decision about Assad's status in Syria, not make this decision for them.
His opponents deserve protection, but only as long as they do not try to achieve regime change by force, a strategy that is destroying Syria.

Thats why i say turkmens should do a referendum. I don´t care if Assad stays in power in syria. What he does to his people is their problem, not ours. But no turkkmen will be left under the mercy of arab facists.

So tell me a solution in this that turkey can accept? You know the red line and you know that reality is that assad wont be accepted by anyone here.

Turkey has to compromise.
It could gain autonomy for the Syrian Turkmen similar to what the Syrian Kurds have now in exchange for cooperation against the Jihadists and rebel groups who are not willing to compromise.
Or continue the current regime change strategy till all Syrian Turkmen are in Turkey or dead.

I don't think that there will be a compromise because Erdogan and the AKP have invested too much into the rebels.
It is all or nothing for them.

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Mustafa wrote:

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Mustafa wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

I don't know anything about this issue - what did Assad do to the Turkmens? Why will they never accept Assad?

I think most Syrians love Assad, otherwise he would have long ago crumbled. Most of the Syrian population is under his rule (~70%). The SAA has plenty of Sunni soldiers and officers.

I hope you realize that what you said about Turkmen and Sunnis in Syria, someone could say about the Kurds in Turkey too. Most of them hate the AKP and Erdogan, and some of those - hate the Turkish state and wish for their own one.

Assad used poison gas on his own people as well as barrel bombs. The turkmens are safe from him because our protection.

Let me ask you something, would you allow that a tyrant who used poison gas on his own people is in charge over some of your people? The russians intervened in crimea for far less than that.

Putin knows this and evryone knows Putin will drop Assad sooner or later. We are in the endgame here. Evry site want to achieve the best outcome for itself. I know that russia must keep that Assad thing running but in the end will drop him.

Just explain me how you will hold syria alive when evry single government around it break off diplomatic relations, keep supporting anti assad groups?

I´m full supporting crushing ISIS, PKK, Al Nusra and all those monsters. But Assad is a red line. There is no scenario where Assad can be accepted from Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, USA, Israel. Its plain and simple impossible.

Shouldn't his people decide that and not a bunch of foreign governments?
We should help them to be able to make a decision about Assad's status in Syria, not make this decision for them.
His opponents deserve protection, but only as long as they do not try to achieve regime change by force, a strategy that is destroying Syria.

Thats why i say turkmens should do a referendum. I don´t care if Assad stays in power in syria. What he does to his people is their problem, not ours. But no turkkmen will be left under the mercy of arab facists.

So tell me a solution in this that turkey can accept? You know the red line and you know that reality is that assad wont be accepted by anyone here.

Turkey has to compromise.
It could gain autonomy for the Syrian Turkmen similar to what the Syrian Kurds have now in exchange for cooperation against the Jihadists and rebel groups who are not willing to compromise.
Or continue the current regime change strategy till all Syrian Turkmen are in Turkey or dead.

I don't think that there will be a compromise because Erdogan and the AKP have invested too much into the rebels.
It is all or nothing for them.

the current situation is really not good for us. its good for nobody actually and only isis wins from this. it was a mistake and i hope things will get better soon.

harassing turkish business men is not a good way to deescalate. they did nothing wrong.

Mustafa wrote:

the current situation is really not good for us. its good for nobody actually and only isis wins from this. it was a mistake and i hope things will get better soon.

harassing turkish business men is not a good way to deescalate. they did nothing wrong.

You are correct in that its not good for turkey, and its not good for russian, but i dont agree that the only winner is isis. ISis is one of the biggest losers because its friend erdogan is being grilled and taken to the cleaners and there is little anyone can do about that.

About the businessmen, they were in russia on the wrong type of visa, thats illegal and the consequence is immediate deportation. Maybe if turkey acted like a friendly nation towards russia instead of murdering its servicemen, it might have looked the other way or sorted it out quietly with the businessmen.

Monarchist wrote:"We believe Turkey is not just a neighbor and friendly nation, almost an ally - so rudely and thoughtlessly destroyed," - said the head of state. "It is a pity," - he added.

"We did not think, we can get a hit from a country, which we consider as an ally," - said Putin. "That is why we consider this treacherous blow," -


http://lenta.ru/news/2015/11/26/putin_turkey/

Putin and his crocodile tears, and continued retarded statements. Turkey an ally?! Sponsoring jihadists, ISIS and destroying Syria.

Yeah, launch the nukes already, firestorm New York, watch DC go up in flames, KILL KILL KILL.

Stuff off Monarchist, you and your multiple accounts are so amateur when it comes to geopolitics. /vent

This thread is giving me cancer.

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Militarov wrote:"Chechen Mujahideen are waiting for orders from Erdogan, the leader of the Muslim people."

Source: http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/cecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308
Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yenisafak.com%2Fdunya%2Fcecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308&edit-text=

They do not need to wait, Russian government is already under tributary control of Chechnya.


Recently in August or September, 2015, the local government in the city of Zamosc, Poland, requested the Russian government for some funds to renovate a monument dedicated to the genocided Soviet POWs from the Second World War; Russian government replied that "there is no money for such things until 2017."

What is very interesting is that recently the largest water fountain in either Europe or the world was constructed in Grozny, Chechnya.

It appears there was money for that.

Can you believe it?

They were making fun of Russia about it on Stormfront; they even showed a dilapidated hospital in Russia, and asked where is the money for that?

LOL, okay, who is this goof? The fact he goes to stormfront alone makes him banworthy, imo.

Kadmos45 wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Recently in August or September, 2015, the local government in the city of Zamosc, Poland, requested the Russian government for some funds to renovate a monument dedicated to the genocided Soviet POWs from the Second World War; Russian government replied that "there is no money for such things until 2017."

.
Can you believe it?

Gimme the link ( in polish language).

Read for yourself:

http://www.dziennikwschodni.pl/zamosc/n,1000171215,zamosc-pomniki-w-remoncie.html


That is at least the second article on this subject.

The local government only requested 55 000 Zlotys, a very tiny fraction of the cost of these gigantic water fountains in Grozny, Chechnya.

The Russian government replied that currently no funds are available for it until 2017.

The city of Zamosc decided that it could not wait that long for renovation, and that it will fund it on its own with the help of private donors, that on top of a second monument that is also being renovated.

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Acheron wrote:In regards to Turkmen: have there been any concerted actions by the Assad government to restrict their cultural practices, religious practices, language, or any other serious ethnic discrimination? The only issues I have been able to find information on are the supposed claims of "ethnic cleansing" by Kurds.  However, this is from Turkish MSM, and based on Turkish (and their proxies) actions against Kurds in Syria, I don't really believe that.

Isn't the Syrian state an Arab supremacist state?
It is official name is Syrian Arab Republic for a reason.
The ideology of the ruling party is Ba'athism which is basically Arab fascism.
Syrian Kurds were severely discriminated by the Syrian state.
I am not sure about Syrian Turkmen, though.
Unlike the Syrian Kurds, they had a powerful supporter, Turkey.

And the official name of Russia is Russian Federation. Does that automatically mean that minorities are severely repressed? Same applies to French Republic, Federal Republic of Germany and many other states.
Ba'ath party are not Arab fascists. If it was that simple, then we would be correct in calling AKP "Turkish fascists". Also, Ba'ath party of old is not the same as the current one. Just like Chinese Communist Party are not exactly Maoists. Unfortunately, it is well-documented that the Kurds were discriminated against. However, since the 2011 events the Syrian government has taken some steps (but not enough) to improve the situation. The turkmen, on the other hand, have largely not been bothered by the Syrian government (possibly due to Turkish support). If that is the case, why doesn't Turkey just leave the Turkmen alone rather than endangering them by mobilizing them as proxies and directing them to attack and fight their own countrymen?

Mustafa wrote:
I like democracy. What do you think about the solution to let the turkmen areas make a referendum like on crimea if they want leave syria and push their areas on turkey? Russia created an international tool with this method to solve such conflicts. That way the heat would be out of the oven from our side. The rest of syria could then freely chose its path as you suggested.

Given what happened after Crimean annexation, do you think countries bordering Turkey (or even your NATO "allies") will be happy about yet another high-profile annexation? Do you think that there is an overall willingness within the international community to accept such an outcome without some serious sanctions and other political consequences? Do you think that Syria will just let that go and not retaliate in some form against a non-security member state with no nuclear deterrent of its own? Even if you pull it off, there is a real danger of Turkey being kicked out of NATO since NATO really hates to be involved in such territorial squabbles. Also, in the future, Syria will inevitably seek allies and try to reclaim their lost territory at any moment when Turkey is weakened.

Then there is the issue of the referendum. For that to happen in a way that could be accepted as both legitimate and legal the war must stop and humanitarian/economic situation stabilized, all militia be disarmed, international monitors must be present, all refugees from the area must be allowed to return, and a debate of 6-12 months discussing the pro/con of such a move must take place in the region. Basically, everything must be done "Scotland-style" to even have the remotest chance to be accepted as legitimate and legal. Oh, it must also be in accordance with Syrian constitution, which, in it's current form, recognizes Syria as indivisible. That's just the independence part, there are other legal matters (both international and domestic) to check off the list before annexation. So, do you think it realistic for Turkey to jump through all those hoops in order to pull-off a legal and legitimate annexation?

Also, I take it that you would similarly support a referendum held in Kurdish majority areas within Turkey on their possible future (i.e. given a choice of greater autonomy, separation, or status quo)?

There will be no referendum for terrorists. Unlike turkmen terrorists, crimeans have not killed anyone, they did not kill anyone they did not advocate for killing because the only thing they did was occupy military bases that military personal could not fulfill orders of occupation of govermental buildings to punish the police and officials which did not follow tyranny orders of punishing anyone that did not accept the coup de etat nazi regime of the US.

Unlike USA and its puppets we actually do not bargain with terrorists. The only bargain with terrorists is how much yield the warheads will have we will pund them. Turkmen are scum and are subject for wiping out, who is a terrorist he has no rights.

Mustafa wrote:
So tell me a solution in this that turkey can accept? You know the red line and you know that reality is that assad wont be accepted by anyone here.  

Here is an excellent solution that Turkey can and should accept: Syria remains undivided. Syrian constitution is altered to be more egalitarian and protective of minorities. Some form of decentralization, autonomy and representation is given to Syrian regions (maybe federation?). Various political parties are allowed to form and campaign freely. Parliament is empowered and president weakened by shifting Syria into a parliamentary republic. Elections for both upper and lower houses of parliament are held and new government formed. Presidential elections are held and are open to all candidates.

You really can't get better than that because:
1) Turkmen and other minorities are protected and represented
2) Praliamentary republic removes "dictator" mode from president
3) Democratic process allows Syrian people to decide who represents them in executive/legislative branches of government

This is a very sensible solution, and unless the real motivation for Turkey is to grab land, this should be more than satisfactory.

Any news about recovery efforts being made to retrieve the pilot's body?

Mustafa wrote:
The wars and conflicts on the balkans and the chaos in the middle east. Countless artificial nations were created there. Be it syria, iraq but also Jordan and israel. This has so much conflict now and never wil work. Just look at their boarder lines. I believe it would have been better if we kept the empire alive. made it a representative monarchy and modernized it.

You might think so, but the vast majority of ex-Ottomans love having their sovereign nation states. I am sure you realize that fondly reminiscing about the Ottoman empire in the presence of ex-Ottomans is the same as Russians talking about how great Russian empire was to Poles/Finns/etc... Not exactly a party starter.

Also, I am sure you know your history, but reforming the Ottoman empire via Tanzimat (and other reforms) did not produce expected results. The fact is, Ottoman empire was doomed for failure, just like the Austro-Hungarian empire, simply due to the incredible force of ethnic nationalism operating in the 19th century (these forces were powerful enough to form Italy, Germany, Romania, etc...). Having so many ethnicities within the borders of Ottoman empire at the zenith of the "Age of Nationalism" greatly contributed to its collapse. The abhorrent fiscal situation, coupled with incredibly low literacy rates and insignificant levels of industrialization also contributed to the fact that the Ottomans simply could not compete with other powers or to adequately suppress nationalist movements.

Odin of Ossetia wrote:
They were making fun of Russia about it on Stormfront; they even showed a dilapidated hospital in Russia, and asked where is the money for that?

A Pole who enjoys reading far-right trash forums....hmmm.....sounds eerily familiar...... Asheren, is that you?

Artificial nations? Such as? Maybe Mustafa meant states, and then he should bite his tongue, given 40 of the current Turkish territory was belonging to a different nationality as late at the 1920's and the Turks refuse the self determination business to Kurdish minority.

If anything most of the states in the Balkans are homogenous, with the worst case being FYROM/MAcedonia (15-20% Albanians in a Slavic country). Compare that to Turkey whose minorities (because the Turkish state doesn't just oppress ethnical minorities but also religious ones now (like the Alevis and the Bektashis). This is the fun part with Turkey, big talk about Bektashis outside (especially in Albania) but actual actions are sending Sunni imams to form Bektashi Imams. And then they complain the Iranians become stronger in these Shia communities.

Btw referendum for Turkmens? Why, they're all recent settlers there compared to Arab population and a minority.