Russian Su-24 shootdown by Turkish Air Force F-16 fighter

KoTeMoRe wrote:Artificial nations? Such as? Maybe Mustafa meant states, and then he should bite his tongue, given 40 of the current Turkish territory was belonging to a different nationality as late at the 1920's and the Turks refuse the self determination business to Kurdish minority.

If anything most of the states in the Balkans are homogenous, with the worst case being FYROM/MAcedonia (15-20% Albanians in a Slavic country). Compare that to Turkey whose minorities (because the Turkish state doesn't just oppress ethnical minorities but also religious ones now (like the Alevis and the Bektashis). This is the fun part with Turkey, big talk about Bektashis outside (especially in Albania) but actual actions are sending Sunni imams to form Bektashi Imams. And then they complain the Iranians become stronger in these Shia communities.

Btw referendum for Turkmens? Why, they're all recent settlers there compared to Arab population and a minority.

Musatafa is right ! Yes referendum !
Kruds want their OWN state on terrain of former Turkey of not?

Can members look into this article about the Turkish airforce having been grounded. http://southfront.org/vks-russian-federation-has-annihilated-the-militants-in-the-area-where-the-su-24-was-brought-down-erdogan-has-ordered-that-air-force-planes-of-turkey-be-grounded/

Acheron wrote:

Mustafa wrote:
So tell me a solution in this that turkey can accept? You know the red line and you know that reality is that assad wont be accepted by anyone here.  

Here is an excellent solution that Turkey can and should accept: Syria remains undivided. Syrian constitution is altered to be more egalitarian and protective of minorities. Some form of decentralization, autonomy and representation is given to Syrian regions (maybe federation?). Various political parties are allowed to form and campaign freely. Parliament is empowered and president weakened by shifting Syria into a parliamentary republic. Elections for both upper and lower houses of parliament are held and new government formed. Presidential elections are held and are open to all candidates.

You really can't get better than that because:
1) Turkmen and other minorities are protected and represented
2) Praliamentary republic removes "dictator" mode from president
3) Democratic process allows Syrian people to decide who represents them in executive/legislative branches of government

This is a very sensible solution, and unless the real motivation for Turkey is to grab land, this should be more than satisfactory.

I don´t think that guarantees our people security in syria and thats the core problem. For that turkey must give trust before anything positive happened. Explain me why syria would not use this time to counteract under russians support to launch a genocide?

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Artificial nations? Such as? Maybe Mustafa meant states, and then he should bite his tongue, given 40 of the current Turkish territory was belonging to a different nationality as late at the 1920's and the Turks refuse the self determination business to Kurdish minority.

If anything most of the states in the Balkans are homogenous, with the worst case being FYROM/MAcedonia (15-20% Albanians in a Slavic country). Compare that to Turkey whose minorities (because the Turkish state doesn't just oppress ethnical minorities but also religious ones now (like the Alevis and the Bektashis). This is the fun part with Turkey, big talk about Bektashis outside (especially in Albania) but actual actions are sending Sunni imams to form Bektashi Imams. And then they complain the Iranians become stronger in these Shia communities.

Btw referendum for Turkmens? Why, they're all recent settlers there compared to Arab population and a minority.

Musatafa is right ! Yes referendum !
Kruds want their OWN state on terrain of former Turkey of not?

Totally fine with that. They don´t form a majority in any form. Only 14% are kurds. And there is only one small province where they could win such a referendum is Hakkâri Province.

You should also see diplomacy realistic. Nobody in the region wants an independend kurdish state. Your "ally" Iran would instantly switch sides and side with turkey.

And thats why its fun to debate with "internet warriors".

Historical perspective continues, those who do not like, then do not read....

It is not surprising that Turks were refused entry to Krasnodar as here live the descendants of the authors of the "Letter to the Turkish Sultan", the Kuban Cossacks who were once the Zaporozhian Cossacks.

The letter from Sultan Mehmet IV to the Zaporozhian Cossacks

As the Sultan; son of Muhammad; brother of the sun and moon; grandson and viceroy of God; ruler of the kingdoms of Macedonia, Babylon, Jerusalem, Upper and Lower Egypt; emperor of emperors; sovereign of sovereigns; extraordinary knight, never defeated; steadfast guardian of the tomb of Jesus Christ; trustee chosen by God Himself; the hope and comfort of Muslims; confounder and great defender of Christians - I command you, the Zaporozhian Cossacks, to submit to me voluntarily and without any resistance, and to desist from troubling me with your attacks.

Sultan Mehmed IV

The reply

Zaporozhian Cossacks to the Turkish Sultan!

   O sultan, Turkish devil and damned devil's kith and kin, secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of knight are you, that can't slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil excretes, and your army eats. You will not, you son of a bitch, make subjects of Christian sons; we've no fear of your army, by land and by sea we will battle with thee, fuck your mother.

   You Babylonian scullion, Macedonian wheelwright, brewer of Jerusalem, goat-fucker of Alexandria, swineherd of Greater and Lesser Egypt, pig of Armenia, Podolian thief, catamite of Tartary, hangman of Kamyanets, and fool of all the world and underworld, an idiot before God, grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig's snout, mare's arse, slaughterhouse cur, unchristened brow, screw your own mother!

   So the Zaporozhians declare, you lowlife. You won't even be herding pigs for the Christians. Now we'll conclude, for we don't know the date and don't own a calendar; the moon's in the sky, the year with the Lord, the day's the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse!

   Ivan Sirko, with the whole Zaporozhian Host.

And the famous painting

Haha gencide, calling demize of terrorists a genocide. Villages are not targeted but your fuckheads of turk terrorists and their convoys and supply chain for terrorists groups from Al Nusra, Al-CIAda, FSA to ISIS.

Sultan Erodgan vows to take steps if its warplane was downed by the Russian S-400 missile system in case of violation of the Syrian airspace

Thug Life

Ma Nigga Erod?an

That's the advantage of NATO cahoot. All petty war criminals get together and form a coalition which scares Russian Bear too. ( Sad Truth )

Is Erdogan just do "political barking" or asking for nuclear war?

Erdogan: use of s-400 against the Turkish fighter jets will be aggression
Erdogan stated that he considers the probable destruction of a Turkish fighter aircraft over Syria Russian anti-aircraft complexes, however, will consider such an event as the act of aggression against the sovereignty of Turkey.

РИА Новости http://ria.ru/world/20151127/1329531424.html#ixzz3sg82CfXq

that´s mentality on level of Mustafa. Does he think that in case of destroying Syria contingent Russia will not respond with nukes?

And yes need to move back Turks sent during invasion of Syria back home so thye have no meor chances to make yet another genocide.

Werewolf wrote:Haha gencide, calling demize of terrorists a genocide. Villages are not targeted but your fuckheads of turk terrorists and their convoys and supply chain for terrorists groups from Al Nusra, Al-CIAda, FSA to ISIS.

C´mon Mustafa IS member of Turkish web brigades/Intel isn´t this just clear? No need to convince him he writes as gray wolf. But yes Turk accusing others of genocide is kind funny.

Where is TheArmenian when you need him?

Khepesh wrote:Zaporozhian Cossacks to the Turkish Sultan!

   O sultan, Turkish devil and damned devil's kith and kin, secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of knight are you, that can't slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil excretes, and your army eats. You will not, you son of a bitch, make subjects of Christian sons; we've no fear of your army, by land and by sea we will battle with thee, fuck your mother.

   You Babylonian scullion, Macedonian wheelwright, brewer of Jerusalem, goat-fucker of Alexandria, swineherd of Greater and Lesser Egypt, pig of Armenia, Podolian thief, catamite of Tartary, hangman of Kamyanets, and fool of all the world and underworld, an idiot before God, grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig's snout, mare's arse, slaughterhouse cur, unchristened brow, screw your own mother!

   So the Zaporozhians declare, you lowlife. You won't even be herding pigs for the Christians. Now we'll conclude, for we don't know the date and don't own a calendar; the moon's in the sky, the year with the Lord, the day's the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse!

   Ivan Sirko, with the whole Zaporozhian Host.

It seems common practice for Sultans to ask for submission and get obsence answers. One of our greatest revolutionaries, Karaiskakis wrote this:

As proof of his obscene torrents, Efthymiou draws attention to Karaiskakis’ address to the messenger of the silihtar Boda, the Albanian general in charge of a force of 5,000 Muslim Albanians who, in the spring of 1823, were confronting Karaiskakis’ forces in central Greece:

‘Come on, you shitty Turk... Come on you Jew, you pawn of the gypsies... Fuck your faith and your Mohammed. What did you think, you cuckolds...? You should be ashamed to ask us to sign a treaty with such a shitty Sultan Mahmud. I shit on him and your vezir and that Jew silihtar Boda, the whore.’

http://hellenicantidote.blogspot.com/2013_10_01_archive.html

Mustafa wrote:

Totally fine with that. They don´t form a majority in any form. Only 14% are kurds. And there is only one small province where they could win such a referendum is Hakkâri Province.

You should also see diplomacy realistic. Nobody in the region wants an independend kurdish state. Your "ally" Iran would instantly switch sides and side with turkey.

And thats why its fun to debate with "internet warriors".

No you have to write this BS this is you job in intel otherwise you will be send to Syria and will meet cheburashka or burantino

According to wiki: Reliable data on the ethnic mix of the population is not available, because Turkish census figures do not include statistics on ethnicity

So state is hiding data guess why? well let´s ask Kruds of opinion. Kinds sucks if 30% of population does not want to sat in Turkey, isn´t?

Werewolf wrote:Where is TheArmenian when you need him?

learning how to deploy S-400 in Armenia

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Werewolf wrote:Where is TheArmenian when you need him?

learning how to deploy S-400 in Armenia

Russia and the turkish actions should embrace the greeks to actually use their S-300P once in a while and on top of that support all turkish bordering countries with S-300/350 and Iskander-E. Let us truelly show how isolation is properly done.

Werewolf wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Werewolf wrote:Where is TheArmenian when you need him?

learning how to deploy S-400 in Armenia

Russia and the turkish actions should embrace the greeks to actually use their S-300P once in a while and on top of that support all turkish bordering countries with S-300/350 and Iskander-E. Let us truelly show how isolation is properly done.

Greece is proud but to small to stand against US. Let´s make no mistake who is pushing Turkey to war? Let me guess why so many arms on border with Donbass? Even intel was sent here to monitor situation ! I hope Russia will not have to use nukes. If Tuks attack en masse on Syrian Continent I am sure Hiroshima was first but not last place where nukes were sued.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Can members look into this article about the Turkish airforce having been grounded. http://southfront.org/vks-russian-federation-has-annihilated-the-militants-in-the-area-where-the-su-24-was-brought-down-erdogan-has-ordered-that-air-force-planes-of-turkey-be-grounded/

Yes Turkish media says so, however they also lie that Russia has stopped actions near Turkish border, actually VKS has stepped up the strikes. Added MLRS strikes and mining of the eastern versant of Jebel Akrad by MLRS. Turkmen forces are going down, they should thank Erdogan for that.

A map that The Armenian would like to alter in the NE corner, for instance I think Trebizond would be a good addition to Armenia as well as other areas that are still under Turkish occupation.



From here, and with interesting comments under the map. http://gwinplane.livejournal.com/2795985.html

And an interesting article, in Russian, from Alex Rusin. He writes, metaphorically, that he opens a map and does not see Istanbul, only Konstantinopolis, and he does not see Turkey, only a country called "Byzantine People's Republic" with Konstantinopils as the capital and currency the ruble. One of the reasons Rusin is prompted to write this article is that Turkey seems to have altered their own maps and pushed the border further south into Syria. http://amfora.livejournal.com/323392.html

KiloGolf wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Zaporozhian Cossacks to the Turkish Sultan!

   O sultan, Turkish devil and damned devil's kith and kin, secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of knight are you, that can't slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil excretes, and your army eats. You will not, you son of a bitch, make subjects of Christian sons; we've no fear of your army, by land and by sea we will battle with thee, fuck your mother.

   You Babylonian scullion, Macedonian wheelwright, brewer of Jerusalem, goat-fucker of Alexandria, swineherd of Greater and Lesser Egypt, pig of Armenia, Podolian thief, catamite of Tartary, hangman of Kamyanets, and fool of all the world and underworld, an idiot before God, grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig's snout, mare's arse, slaughterhouse cur, unchristened brow, screw your own mother!

   So the Zaporozhians declare, you lowlife. You won't even be herding pigs for the Christians. Now we'll conclude, for we don't know the date and don't own a calendar; the moon's in the sky, the year with the Lord, the day's the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse!

   Ivan Sirko, with the whole Zaporozhian Host.

It seems common practice for Sultans to ask for submission and get obsence answers. One of our greatest revolutionaries, Karaiskakis wrote this:

As proof of his obscene torrents, Efthymiou draws attention to Karaiskakis’ address to the messenger of the silihtar Boda, the Albanian general in charge of a force of 5,000 Muslim Albanians who, in the spring of 1823, were confronting Karaiskakis’ forces in central Greece:

‘Come on, you shitty Turk... Come on you Jew, you pawn of the gypsies... Fuck your faith and your Mohammed. What did you think, you cuckolds...? You should be ashamed to ask us to sign a treaty with such a shitty Sultan Mahmud. I shit on him and your vezir and that Jew silihtar Boda, the whore.’

http://hellenicantidote.blogspot.com/2013_10_01_archive.html

Arsen Boda was a convert. It's even worse. As a former janissary member, he'd win his Silahtar title by betraying his own in Skrapar, Albania. Funny enough, he'd be decapitated although his status wasn't "head giver" (I shit you not) because he would fail his orders to land on Greek mainland some years later.

Former NATO Commander: ‘Turkey is Supporting ISIS’
Wesley Clark says Islamic State is "serving the interests of Turkey"

Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Gen. Wesley Clark responded to yesterday’s shoot down of a Russian fighter jet by pointing out that Turkey is supporting ISIS.



http://www.infowars.com/former-nato-commander-turkey-is-supporting-isis/

Mustafa wrote:
I don´t think that guarantees our people security in syria and thats the core problem. For that turkey must give trust before anything positive happened. Explain me why syria would not use this time to counteract under russians support to launch a genocide?

You keep defending your corrupt Government.. if you were born in Germany in the 20's you will be defending Hitler ,with the same energy you know support Erdogan..

1)IT seems that you have very low morals values in life ,and you are ok.. with a government feeding you lies every day about what happens in Syria and IRAQ.
2) It looks that no matter what your government does , even start another armenian Genocide
and 100 millions of civilians in Syria and IRAQ with ERdogan support for Alqaeda and ISIS.. as long turkey economy is strong.

Turkey have the world record of journalist in Jail.. telling the truth there is called treason
by your fascist government. take a look at the last information of one of your journalist..
That got in trouble in justice in turkey.. for reporting that Turkey Police arrested a truck
full of weapons two times in 2014 alone carrying weapons to mercenaries fighting in Syria.
and the police was suspended and kicked from their jobs for stopping terrorism.

What kind of Bullshit of Government you live? that punish police for doing its job of
arresting terrorist? That sponsor bandits and suicide bombers, to murder civilians and
put in jail anyone who defend them?

https://www.rt.com/news/323557-turkey-arrests-editor-cumhuriyet/

What about you Mr Mustafa ,
will you like if IRAQ supply weapons to kurds..very good ones to start killing your family
and friends? and disband your nation? Will you support any nation to invade your country
with the pretext of "protecting their friends"? and start shooting down your planes?

Turkey have thousands of Air space violations in Syria, IRAQ ,Armenia and Greece.
and consider that acceptable because is for their security.. but there goes RUssia and supposedly invaded for 17 seconds your airspace for bombing radical jihadist friendly to Erdogan that have been terrorizing Armenians in Syria border and kidnapping them..

Mustafa wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Artificial nations? Such as? Maybe Mustafa meant states, and then he should bite his tongue, given 40 of the current Turkish territory was belonging to a different nationality as late at the 1920's and the Turks refuse the self determination business to Kurdish minority.

If anything most of the states in the Balkans are homogenous, with the worst case being FYROM/MAcedonia (15-20% Albanians in a Slavic country). Compare that to Turkey whose minorities (because the Turkish state doesn't just oppress ethnical minorities but also religious ones now (like the Alevis and the Bektashis). This is the fun part with Turkey, big talk about Bektashis outside (especially in Albania) but actual actions are sending Sunni imams to form Bektashi Imams. And then they complain the Iranians become stronger in these Shia communities.

Btw referendum for Turkmens? Why, they're all recent settlers there compared to Arab population and a minority.

Musatafa is right ! Yes referendum !
Kruds want their OWN state on terrain of former Turkey of not?

Totally fine with that. They don´t form a majority in any form. Only 14% are kurds. And there is only one small province where they could win such a referendum is Hakkâri Province.

You should also see diplomacy realistic. Nobody in the region wants an independend kurdish state. Your "ally" Iran would instantly switch sides and side with turkey.

And thats why its fun to debate with "internet warriors".

Your own census has about 15% Kurds...CIA About 20%, Kurds say about 20 million which is about 25% of population.

Iran's Kordestan has what 5/6 million people? In a very different posture to that of Turkish or Iraqi kurds. It's basically the least favourable spot for a Kurdish state.
But the problem with diplomacy is that Kurds are fighting with US support AND they had already the KRG. See this is funny with you Mustafa, you came here to talk like you were a normal citizen, now you're pushing something that you can't control.

You talk about artificial states, Turkey fits the bill.
You talk about Diplomacy, Turkey shits over Diplomacy.
You talk about "internet warriors", using internet warrior arguments.

Meanwhile Russia strikes back and Turkey suspends its flight over Syria and Iraq, why? Maybe scared that a missile ends up downing a Turkish plane?
One thing is certain, Kurds are going to get help, everywhere.

KoTeMoRe wrote:  Arsen Boda was a convert. It's even worse. As a former janissary member, he'd win his Silahtar title by betraying his own in Skrapar, Albania. Funny enough, he'd be decapitated although his status wasn't "head giver" (I shit you not) because he would fail his orders to land on Greek mainland some years later.

so Turkoman a head-giver?




Curiously, in the late 70-ies Turkey has said it is reviewing the issue of closing warships of the Soviet Union the passage through the Bosporus into the Mediterranean. To this statement, comrade Gromyko, Andrei Andreevich (the Minister of foreign Affairs of the USSR from 1957 to 1985) said at a cocktail party in the White House and American journalists, for the passage in the Mediterranean the black sea Fleet of the USSR would need only a couple of volleys of missiles. As a result, appears, in addition to the Bosphorus, two more passage in the Mediterranean, but, alas, not Istanbul. After these words, the Turkey never raised the issue of the closure of the Bosphorus to warships of the USSR. Maybe it's time once again to remind Ankara? Source: http://maxfux.livejournal.com/964961.html

Источник: http://politikus.ru/articles/64035-kak-gromyko-bosfor-zaschitil.html
Politikus.ru

KoTeMoRe wrote: Meanwhile Russia strikes back and Turkey suspends its flight over Syria and Iraq, why? Maybe scared that a missile ends up downing a Turkish plane?
One thing is certain, Kurds are going to get help, everywhere.

Well Pantsirs against pair of F4 were already successfully tested.

It means suicide mission, but in his case, yeah more like a faggot traitor.

How do you terrorist feel know after coming here to cheer for the responses?

I feed on terrorist tears of turks and their "brothers" lying in the dirt at several places at the same time. The funny thing is the western shills who are russophobes at core are also cheering. Congratulations you turks have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been deemed not genough. Now take your place in western eyes beneath of russians then they don't take your lifes more worth then ours and you are just flesh that is thrown at russians for them nothing more.