Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:.................
Papa,

Allegedly the 20385 is a bit longer and has a higher displacement compared to the 20380.
The 20385 were designed because the Northern Fleet wanted:
- UKSK launchers instead of Uran
- Bigger and better equipped galleys (the ships of the Northern fleet go on longer cruises compared to the Baltic ones)

The reason why no further orders came for the 20385 (after the first 2) is because the cost jumped up and came close to the Gorshkov Frigates.

You are right the Derzki is the way for the future. It is fundamentally different in design, engines etc.

Correct.

I remember someone posting list of prices a while ago and 20385 were definitely crazy expensive for corvettes.

20386's are 3.6 tons that reasoning makes no sense. They are more expensive then the 20385.

85's are smaller at 2.2 ish.

IMO the 20386 is a compromise between the 20385 and the 22350.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:.................
Papa,

Allegedly the 20385 is a bit longer and has a higher displacement compared to the 20380.
The 20385 were designed because the Northern Fleet wanted:
- UKSK launchers instead of Uran
- Bigger and better equipped galleys (the ships of the Northern fleet go on longer cruises compared to the Baltic ones)

The reason why no further orders came for the 20385 (after the first 2) is because the cost jumped up and came close to the Gorshkov Frigates.

You are right the Derzki is the way for the future. It is fundamentally different in design, engines etc.

Correct.

I remember someone posting list of prices a while ago and 20385 were definitely crazy expensive for corvettes.

20386's are 3.6 tons that reasoning makes no sense. They are more expensive then the 20385.

85's are smaller at 2.2 ish.

The official specification sheet showing the details of the 20386 showed:
- displacement of 3420 T
- length of 109 m

A lot of people (including me) are questioning these numbers. How can you have an extra 1000 T more than the 20380 when the length is the same?
They say there must be a typo error: either the displacement is wrong or the length is wrong.

Even the exact displacements of the 20380 are confusing.
Originally they were said to be 2000T. The number was changed to 2200 T later on (and 2400 T for the 20385).

Perhaps the 20386 is indeed much larger than the 20380 as you have mentioned. In that case, it is definitely not based on the older model and is definitely more expensive.
Or maybe the 20386 is based on the 20380 and is not larger or more costly.

The jury is still out.

I would love to see a picture (taking from above) of a 20380, 20385 and 20386 next to each other where I can compare the sizes and come to my own conclusions.

TheArmenian wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:.................
Papa,

Allegedly the 20385 is a bit longer and has a higher displacement compared to the 20380.
The 20385 were designed because the Northern Fleet wanted:
- UKSK launchers instead of Uran
- Bigger and better equipped galleys (the ships of the Northern fleet go on longer cruises compared to the Baltic ones)

The reason why no further orders came for the 20385 (after the first 2) is because the cost jumped up and came close to the Gorshkov Frigates.

You are right the Derzki is the way for the future. It is fundamentally different in design, engines etc.

Correct.

I remember someone posting list of prices a while ago and 20385 were definitely crazy expensive for corvettes.

20386's are 3.6 tons that reasoning makes no sense. They are more expensive then the 20385.

85's are smaller at 2.2 ish.

The official specification sheet showing the details of the 20386 showed:
- displacement of 3420 T
- length of 109 m

A lot of people (including me) are questioning these numbers. How can you have an extra  1000 T more than the 20380 when the length is the same?
They say there must be a typo error: either the displacement is wrong or the length is wrong.

Even the exact displacements of the 20380 are confusing.
Originally they were said to be 2000T. The number was changed to 2200 T later on (and 2400 T for the 20385).

Perhaps the 20386 is indeed much larger than the 20380 as you have mentioned. In that case, it is definitely not based on the older model and is definitely more expensive.
Or maybe the 20386 is based on the 20380 and is not larger or more costly.

The jury is still out.

I would love to see a picture (taking from above) of a 20380, 20385  and 20386 next to each other where I can compare the sizes and come to my own conclusions.

I am merely going by the numbers given and the numbers say it's over 3K tons and Really considering all the stuff they say this ship can do and what it's loaded with there is no way it's cheaper then the 85's.

36's have features the 35's don't more weapons, more internal space.

It's simply not possible for them to be cheaper then the 85's.

Isos wrote:The Gremyashy class was estimated between 350 and 450 Million $ according to an article of website in french for russian navy (http://www.rusnavyintelligence.com/article-l-etat-major-de-la-marine-russe-mecontent-des-nouvelles-corvettes-furtives-115804152.html).

The steregouchshy was 120-150 million for export.

A simpler and better solution would be to produce more Grigorovitch class at this price. In raw power it's better, more space, same price, more range, can go in open sea and not just costal area, already constructed for black sea, uses more anti air missiles, has UKSK.

This is what I was saying back when.

Also bigger ship does not necessarily mean bigger pricetag, especially of they went with modular construction. And we still don't know exact size. Old ones had misleading data as well like Armenian pointed out.

Imported engines and other gear were not cheap. 20386 uses all local stuff. Another possible savings method.

Price might very well be higher indeed but maybe not by much.

Isos wrote:The Gremyashy class was estimated between 350 and 450 Million $ according to an article of website in french for russian navy (http://www.rusnavyintelligence.com/article-l-etat-major-de-la-marine-russe-mecontent-des-nouvelles-corvettes-furtives-115804152.html).

The steregouchshy was 120-150 million for export.

A simpler and better solution would be to produce more Grigorovitch class at this price. In raw power it's better, more space, same price, more range, can go in open sea and not just costal area, already constructed for black sea, uses more anti air missiles, has UKSK.

Export versions are also worse than their domestic counterparts.

At the same time it's a 3k ton ship it can go into the blue water just fine.

These aren't merely brown water vessels.

I suspect Russia is just calling them corvettes so they can get more bigger ships quicker.

The 36 is a light frigate if it's over 3k tons.

It could be smaller? sure but until I see anything official it remains ar 3k tons.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Isos wrote:The Gremyashy class was estimated between 350 and 450 Million $ according to an article of website in french for russian navy (http://www.rusnavyintelligence.com/article-l-etat-major-de-la-marine-russe-mecontent-des-nouvelles-corvettes-furtives-115804152.html).

The steregouchshy was 120-150 million for export.

A simpler and better solution would be to produce more Grigorovitch class at this price. In raw power it's better, more space, same price, more range, can go in open sea and not just costal area, already constructed for black sea, uses more anti air missiles, has UKSK.

Export versions are also worse than their domestic counterparts.

At the same time it's a 3k ton ship it can go into the blue water just fine.

These aren't merely brown water vessels.

I suspect Russia is just calling them corvettes so they can get more bigger ships quicker.

The 36 is a light frigate if it's over 3k tons.

It could be smaller? sure but until I see anything official it remains ar 3k tons.

Check this video at 1:23

TheArmenian wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Isos wrote:The Gremyashy class was estimated between 350 and 450 Million $ according to an article of website in french for russian navy (http://www.rusnavyintelligence.com/article-l-etat-major-de-la-marine-russe-mecontent-des-nouvelles-corvettes-furtives-115804152.html).

The steregouchshy was 120-150 million for export.

A simpler and better solution would be to produce more Grigorovitch class at this price. In raw power it's better, more space, same price, more range, can go in open sea and not just costal area, already constructed for black sea, uses more anti air missiles, has UKSK.

Export versions are also worse than their domestic counterparts.

At the same time it's a 3k ton ship it can go into the blue water just fine.

These aren't merely brown water vessels.

I suspect Russia is just calling them corvettes so they can get more bigger ships quicker.

The 36 is a light frigate if it's over 3k tons.

It could be smaller? sure but until I see anything official it remains ar 3k tons.

Check this video at 1:23

I do not count some information from a news outlet to be fact.

The ship builders and Russian MoD themselves have stated it's over 3k tons. This overrules any third party.

Another problem it says displacement not FULL Displacement.

(I can read russian).

even the 22350's aren't over 4k tons if you don't count their Full displacement.

Isos wrote:

This is what I was saying back when.

Also bigger ship does not necessarily mean bigger pricetag, especially of they went with modular construction. And we still don't know exact size. Old ones had misleading data as well like Armenian pointed out.

Imported engines and other gear were not cheap. 20386 uses all local stuff. Another possible savings method.

Price might very well be higher indeed but maybe not by much.

The price of 20386 will be higher than 20380 and 20385 as they use new electronics, new design and more equipement (new AESA radar and if I'm not wrong it wiil be equiped with Urans and Kalibr so they will need to put both systems).

20385 is not a big upgrade and look how the price increased.

That's the problem with russian they can't build one ship, they always want to upgrade and at the end they have lot of versions with each have having 1 or 2 ss in service. 20380 was very good (when equiped with redut), build for close sea. It could have been used to defend shores in the north and pacific with it's Paket-NK and sonars (which are according to me the best way to use them). For anti ship role they should go for bigger ship (which they already designed) like Gorshkovs and Grigorovitch.

They are planning to build lot of small and cheaper corvettes with UKSK so the modularity of the 20386 is not a priority.

Export versions are also worse than their domestic counterparts.

At the same time it's a 3k ton ship it can go into the blue water just fine.

These aren't merely brown water vessels.

I suspect Russia is just calling them corvettes so they can get more bigger ships quicker.

The 36 is a light frigate if it's over 3k tons.

It could be smaller? sure but until I see anything official it remains ar 3k tons

For the same price if you can have a 4K tons "medium" frigate instead of a 3k tons "big corvette-light frigate", you chose it the medium frigate.

On this I can agree Russia has a huge problem when it comes to building small amounts of things and having tons of different versions in service. Their logistics are a nightmare has a result.

That said if the price tag of a 20386 gets that high yeah they may has well just build more normal sized frigates.

If they really need ships that can launch speeds boats and what not at that size they have the project 22160.

PETERSBURG, February 16 - RIA Novosti. Shipbuilding Plant "Severnaya Verf" (part of the USC) is planning to lower the water head corvette project 20385 "Gremyashchy" in May 2017, said the plant.

"Shipyard" Severnaya Verf "plans to lower the water head corvette project 20385" Gremyashchy "in May 2017 subject to the suppliers of all its obligations in due time", - said in a statement.

According to the deputy chief builder of the plant Alexander Ulyasheva, "domestic counterparts, realizing the importance of the problem, complete manufacturing equipment designed to replace imported in the near future." Launching corvette will complete the installation of ship systems, main engine and shafting, alignment and execute them to prepare "Gremyashchy" for mooring trials.

"It is already almost finished painting the body immediately before launch will be mounted radome sonar." - Quoted in the message words Ulyasheva plant.

Multipurpose corvettes of this project are designed to detect and destroy submarines and surface ships of the enemy, ensuring the landing, as well as solving various problems in the near maritime zone. The basis of the arms corvettes make universal missile complex "Caliber-NCE", anti-aircraft missile complex "Redoubt" ASW complex "Package", which may be based on one helicopter Ka-27. corvette length is 104 meters, width - 13 m, speed - up to 27 knots, cruising range - 3500 miles, the crew - 99 people. With its original architecture and the use of composite materials, as well as a built-in enclosure missile weapons and antenna posts in corvettes significantly reduced radar, acoustic and optical visibility.

On this I can agree Russia has a huge problem when it comes to building small amounts of things and having tons of different versions in service. Their logistics are a nightmare has a result.

Actually the truth is the opposite... the Sovremmeny and Udaloy are totally different with different propulsion, different weapons, different sensors... in fact each class was made with different weapons and different systems optimised for the job.

Their new vessels... even though they are different types have largely unified weapons and systems and C4IR systems so they will be vastly much more easy to support and to operate and will be rather more multipurpose vessels than previous models.

plans to lower the water head corvette project 20385" Gremyashchy "in May 2017

Urrrrah!

Some nice pics via Balancer forum

Couple of potato quality pics of the Pacific one from Balancer forum.


Can't work out if not entirely finished or already showing age

I think this one is still under construction

Has Russian flag but no Navy flag

Those potato quality photos were taken from a shitty cell phone camera.
One more:
http://files.balancer.ru/forums/attaches/2017/03/21-4753417-20380-333-2.jpg

Project 2038.0, Project 2038.5, Project 20386....

How about insted of laying down new ships all the time maybe they could use the money to finish the ships already in costruction. Whats the point of having ships in slow construction face year after year.
They now have 6 ships under construction at the same time with the first being laid down back in 2012...5 years ago.

walle83 wrote:Project 2038.0, Project 2038.5, Project 20386....

How about insted of laying down new ships all the time maybe they could use the money to finish the ships already in costruction. Whats the point of having ships in slow construction face year after year.
They now have 6 ships under construction at the same time with the first being laid down back in 2012...5 years ago.

Throwing money on stuff doesnt finish them instantly, its not a video game. For some ships they still lack engines, they need to wait abit and work on what they can without engines.

Sovershennyy factory tests













http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2533765.html

So 2 of these are on the way from Baltic to off Syria. (has been posted in other thread here)
Big question is if they'll continue on to BSF as exchange for the Buyans that went to Baltic afterwards.

Interesting that in several English language places I've seen quite admiring remarks relative to the Type 23 that escorted them through the English Channel vs condescending lols at pics of K/PtG/Slavas & even Grigorovich.




Here's a couple of vids that have been doing the rounds, I'm pretty sure I saw them last year?
Some good shots of 20385 in build & onboard 20380.

Amur Shipbuilding Plant plans to transfer to the Pacific Fleet the first corvette of Project 20380, "Sovershennyy" in June 2017.
In March, Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov after visiting the company told that the delivery of the remaining three ships is scheduled for 2018, 2019 and 2020 respectively. (Gromkiy, Aldar Tsydenzhapov, Rezkiy)

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2559333.html

To be clear they were admiring the 20380s for being modern relative to the Type 23.

Personally I've always been a fan of Type 23 & its fairly equivalent to 20380 in a lot of ways.
But it's certainly showing its age in this comparison, I seem to recall much less clutter down the sides originally

So apparently not going to Syria after all, back in Baltysk
http://nortwolf-sam.blogspot.com/2017/05/blog-post_88.html


http://nortwolf-sam.blogspot.com/2017/05/blog-post_2.html

Googletranslate wrote:Detachment of ships of the Baltic Fleet has completed the long march

05.01.2017 detachment of ships of the Baltic Fleet as part of Corvettes "Courageous," "savvy", the sea tug MB-123 performed the tasks of a long voyage. The crews of ships and vessels held for about a month at sea.
During the campaign a detachment left astern over 4 thousand. Nautical miles, held dozens of naval exercises in the search conditional submarine in various parts of the North Atlantic.