Project 2038.0: Steregushchy Corvette

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:.................
Papa,

Allegedly the 20385 is a bit longer and has a higher displacement compared to the 20380.
The 20385 were designed because the Northern Fleet wanted:
- UKSK launchers instead of Uran
- Bigger and better equipped galleys (the ships of the Northern fleet go on longer cruises compared to the Baltic ones)

The reason why no further orders came for the 20385 (after the first 2) is because the cost jumped up and came close to the Gorshkov Frigates.

You are right the Derzki is the way for the future. It is fundamentally different in design, engines etc.

Correct.

I remember someone posting list of prices a while ago and 20385 were definitely crazy expensive for corvettes.

20386's are 3.6 tons that reasoning makes no sense. They are more expensive then the 20385.

85's are smaller at 2.2 ish.

TheArmenian wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:.................
Papa,

Allegedly the 20385 is a bit longer and has a higher displacement compared to the 20380.
The 20385 were designed because the Northern Fleet wanted:
- UKSK launchers instead of Uran
- Bigger and better equipped galleys (the ships of the Northern fleet go on longer cruises compared to the Baltic ones)

The reason why no further orders came for the 20385 (after the first 2) is because the cost jumped up and came close to the Gorshkov Frigates.

You are right the Derzki is the way for the future. It is fundamentally different in design, engines etc.

Correct.

I remember someone posting list of prices a while ago and 20385 were definitely crazy expensive for corvettes.

20386's are 3.6 tons that reasoning makes no sense. They are more expensive then the 20385.

85's are smaller at 2.2 ish.

The official specification sheet showing the details of the 20386 showed:
- displacement of 3420 T
- length of 109 m

A lot of people (including me) are questioning these numbers. How can you have an extra  1000 T more than the 20380 when the length is the same?
They say there must be a typo error: either the displacement is wrong or the length is wrong.

Even the exact displacements of the 20380 are confusing.
Originally they were said to be 2000T. The number was changed to 2200 T later on (and 2400 T for the 20385).

Perhaps the 20386 is indeed much larger than the 20380 as you have mentioned. In that case, it is definitely not based on the older model and is definitely more expensive.
Or maybe the 20386 is based on the 20380 and is not larger or more costly.

The jury is still out.

I would love to see a picture (taking from above) of a 20380, 20385  and 20386 next to each other where I can compare the sizes and come to my own conclusions.

Isos wrote:The Gremyashy class was estimated between 350 and 450 Million $ according to an article of website in french for russian navy (http://www.rusnavyintelligence.com/article-l-etat-major-de-la-marine-russe-mecontent-des-nouvelles-corvettes-furtives-115804152.html).

The steregouchshy was 120-150 million for export.

A simpler and better solution would be to produce more Grigorovitch class at this price. In raw power it's better, more space, same price, more range, can go in open sea and not just costal area, already constructed for black sea, uses more anti air missiles, has UKSK.

Isos wrote:The Gremyashy class was estimated between 350 and 450 Million $ according to an article of website in french for russian navy (http://www.rusnavyintelligence.com/article-l-etat-major-de-la-marine-russe-mecontent-des-nouvelles-corvettes-furtives-115804152.html).

The steregouchshy was 120-150 million for export.

A simpler and better solution would be to produce more Grigorovitch class at this price. In raw power it's better, more space, same price, more range, can go in open sea and not just costal area, already constructed for black sea, uses more anti air missiles, has UKSK.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Isos wrote:The Gremyashy class was estimated between 350 and 450 Million $ according to an article of website in french for russian navy (http://www.rusnavyintelligence.com/article-l-etat-major-de-la-marine-russe-mecontent-des-nouvelles-corvettes-furtives-115804152.html).

The steregouchshy was 120-150 million for export.

A simpler and better solution would be to produce more Grigorovitch class at this price. In raw power it's better, more space, same price, more range, can go in open sea and not just costal area, already constructed for black sea, uses more anti air missiles, has UKSK.

Export versions are also worse than their domestic counterparts.

At the same time it's a 3k ton ship it can go into the blue water just fine.

These aren't merely brown water vessels.

I suspect Russia is just calling them corvettes so they can get more bigger ships quicker.

The 36 is a light frigate if it's over 3k tons.

It could be smaller? sure but until I see anything official it remains ar 3k tons.

TheArmenian wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Isos wrote:The Gremyashy class was estimated between 350 and 450 Million $ according to an article of website in french for russian navy (http://www.rusnavyintelligence.com/article-l-etat-major-de-la-marine-russe-mecontent-des-nouvelles-corvettes-furtives-115804152.html).

The steregouchshy was 120-150 million for export.

A simpler and better solution would be to produce more Grigorovitch class at this price. In raw power it's better, more space, same price, more range, can go in open sea and not just costal area, already constructed for black sea, uses more anti air missiles, has UKSK.

Export versions are also worse than their domestic counterparts.

At the same time it's a 3k ton ship it can go into the blue water just fine.

These aren't merely brown water vessels.

I suspect Russia is just calling them corvettes so they can get more bigger ships quicker.

The 36 is a light frigate if it's over 3k tons.

It could be smaller? sure but until I see anything official it remains ar 3k tons.

Check this video at 1:23

This is what I was saying back when.

Also bigger ship does not necessarily mean bigger pricetag, especially of they went with modular construction. And we still don't know exact size. Old ones had misleading data as well like Armenian pointed out.

Imported engines and other gear were not cheap. 20386 uses all local stuff. Another possible savings method.

Price might very well be higher indeed but maybe not by much.

Export versions are also worse than their domestic counterparts.

At the same time it's a 3k ton ship it can go into the blue water just fine.

These aren't merely brown water vessels.

I suspect Russia is just calling them corvettes so they can get more bigger ships quicker.

The 36 is a light frigate if it's over 3k tons.

It could be smaller? sure but until I see anything official it remains ar 3k tons

Isos wrote:

This is what I was saying back when.

Also bigger ship does not necessarily mean bigger pricetag, especially of they went with modular construction. And we still don't know exact size. Old ones had misleading data as well like Armenian pointed out.

Imported engines and other gear were not cheap. 20386 uses all local stuff. Another possible savings method.

Price might very well be higher indeed but maybe not by much.

The price of 20386 will be higher than 20380 and 20385 as they use new electronics, new design and more equipement (new AESA radar and if I'm not wrong it wiil be equiped with Urans and Kalibr so they will need to put both systems).

20385 is not a big upgrade and look how the price increased.

That's the problem with russian they can't build one ship, they always want to upgrade and at the end they have lot of versions with each have having 1 or 2 ss in service. 20380 was very good (when equiped with redut), build for close sea. It could have been used to defend shores in the north and pacific with it's Paket-NK and sonars (which are according to me the best way to use them). For anti ship role they should go for bigger ship (which they already designed) like Gorshkovs and Grigorovitch.

They are planning to build lot of small and cheaper corvettes with UKSK so the modularity of the 20386 is not a priority.

Export versions are also worse than their domestic counterparts.

At the same time it's a 3k ton ship it can go into the blue water just fine.

These aren't merely brown water vessels.

I suspect Russia is just calling them corvettes so they can get more bigger ships quicker.

The 36 is a light frigate if it's over 3k tons.

It could be smaller? sure but until I see anything official it remains ar 3k tons

For the same price if you can have a 4K tons "medium" frigate instead of a 3k tons "big corvette-light frigate", you chose it the medium frigate.

On this I can agree Russia has a huge problem when it comes to building small amounts of things and having tons of different versions in service. Their logistics are a nightmare has a result.

plans to lower the water head corvette project 20385" Gremyashchy "in May 2017

walle83 wrote:Project 2038.0, Project 2038.5, Project 20386....

How about insted of laying down new ships all the time maybe they could use the money to finish the ships already in costruction. Whats the point of having ships in slow construction face year after year.
They now have 6 ships under construction at the same time with the first being laid down back in 2012...5 years ago.

hoom wrote:

Googletranslate wrote:Detachment of ships of the Baltic Fleet has completed the long march

05.01.2017 detachment of ships of the Baltic Fleet as part of Corvettes "Courageous," "savvy", the sea tug MB-123 performed the tasks of a long voyage. The crews of ships and vessels held for about a month at sea.
During the campaign a detachment left astern over 4 thousand. Nautical miles, held dozens of naval exercises in the search conditional submarine in various parts of the North Atlantic.