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Log innemrod wrote:China's Fifth-Generation Fighter Could Be A Game Changer In An Increasingly Tense East Asia
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chengdu-j-20-could-be-a-game-changer-in-asia-2014-8#ixzz3B7mDHLrq
And I thought Copp had retired .
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Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter
Sujoy- Posts : 2409
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And I thought Copp had retired .
nemrod- Posts : 839
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Join date : 2012-09-11
Age : 59
- Post n°77
Russia won't sell China radar system for J-20 stealth jet: Kanwa
nemrod Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:42 pm
If a thing is sure, China is going to copy the state of the art AL-41F1S (117S). As China would buy only 24 -48 ?- SU-35. I used to believe that China will order at least hundreds SU-35. Finally China would buy only a few state of the art SU-35. My question is why ? If China really needs a such fighter, chinese army would order at least few hundreds, nevertheless, they only order 24. It means that their WS-10 seems to be ready. If so, why did they order SU-35 ? When I was sure that China is ready to sign the contract, I am learning that no such contract exist.
Chinese policies regarding fighters, especially Sukhoi, and Mig are really enigmatic. I - more and more specialists are confirming- think that China is reaching the breakthrough regarding jet engine technology, once their WS-10G, and WS-15 will be ready -not before a couple of years- the chinese will be among the greatest superpower in the world. It is a matter of time.
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20141109000012&cid=1101
Chinese policies regarding fighters, especially Sukhoi, and Mig are really enigmatic. I - more and more specialists are confirming- think that China is reaching the breakthrough regarding jet engine technology, once their WS-10G, and WS-15 will be ready -not before a couple of years- the chinese will be among the greatest superpower in the world. It is a matter of time.
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20141109000012&cid=1101
Russia won't sell China radar system for J-20 stealth jet: Kanwa
Russia has rejected the idea of providing China with a radar system suitable for fifth-generation stealth fighters like the Chengdu J-20, according to Kanwa Defense Review, a Chinese-language military magazine published in Canada.
China is currently testing the Type 1475 active electronically scanned array radar system designed for the still-in-development J-20 on the nose of a Tu-204 jetliner.
Yuri Guskov from Phazotron, Russia's largest military radar developer, said Russia is working to develop the ZHUK-AE active electronically scanned array radar system for its PAK FA fifth-generation stealth fighter, more commonly known as the T-50, at a rate much faster than China is proceeding.
While the ZHUK-AE radar is ready to be tested with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited's Tejas fighter for the Indian Air Force, Yuri said a naval version of the radar had been designed earlier and has already been tested on a warship in waters off the Russian Far East.
Guskov said the development of the ZHUK radar system will be completed next year. He said however that Russia will not provide the ZHUK to China because of India's involvement in its development.
China is poised to obtain the IRBIS-E radar from Russia, however, as Moscow is very likely to sell Su-35K fourth-generation fighters to Beijing. All 20 IRBIS-E radars currently in service are used on the Su-35S fighters of the Russian Air Force.
GarryB- Posts : 40487
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There is another thread reporting that China will continue to buy the RD-93 from Russia... now if they have such prowess in jet engine design why would they continue to buy a slightly modified RD-33 that has been in service for more than 20 years?
The fact that the Russians wont sell a particular radar developed with India is hardly a surprise... I doubt Russia would sell Brahmos to China either... and for the very same reasons.
It doesn't mean Russia wont sell Yakhont to China.
Very few countries will commit to buying very large numbers of expensive aircraft in one batch... even Indias MMRCA programme for 126 aircraft only includes 16 from the original maker with the rest licence produced in India.
China is hardly likely to order 300 as a first order, but if they can't make an engine better than an RD-33 then what makes you think they can make an Al-41?
The fact that the Russians wont sell a particular radar developed with India is hardly a surprise... I doubt Russia would sell Brahmos to China either... and for the very same reasons.
It doesn't mean Russia wont sell Yakhont to China.
Very few countries will commit to buying very large numbers of expensive aircraft in one batch... even Indias MMRCA programme for 126 aircraft only includes 16 from the original maker with the rest licence produced in India.
China is hardly likely to order 300 as a first order, but if they can't make an engine better than an RD-33 then what makes you think they can make an Al-41?
nemrod- Posts : 839
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Join date : 2012-09-11
Age : 59
To Garry.
What I understood, after several months, if not years of searching in the web, as many pundits said, regarding what I've already posted few months ago, concerning China's potential.
As I said previously, in the tool-machinery industry China is likely to be around the end of the decade the leader in this top strategic area. Contrary to before, they nowadays have the assets, regarding the quality of their engineers, regarding human potential, and the new setting that are in China's hand is particulary money.
They have huge amount of money, far greater than USA, Russia, Swiss, Germany. They have at least 5.000 billions of $ ready. None country in the world is able to have this amount of money.
Regarding the strategic area of tool-machinery -high quality, mean high technology, means high precision- you have the following ranking:
Quality
1-Swiss
2-Germany/Japan/Italy
3-Swede, Norway, nothern european countries
4-USA/UK/France
5-Russia ?/South Korea/Taiwan
6-China
7-India, Australia, etc...
And the first producer in the world of tool machinery, the first market du to his huge automobile-market is China. This asset, will boost the tool-machinery innovations, and undoubtly, China does not lack of brighting engineers.
Around the next decade, China du to its huge investissements will be undoubtly the first in every ranking.
Back to your question
Untill now China tried to copy because they could not afford to produce a such engine either RD-33 or AL-41, because they lacked of money, lack of good engineers, as the best chinese engineers fled to western countries, or in USA. The chinese system deterred any intiatives, the bureaucracy etc...
Hence, China lacked of fair infrastructures to do the same prowess as Russia. Even in semi conductor area, they lacked infrastructures, and lack of all.
Overall, all pundits are agree that in the next decade, China is becoming the new giant. New giant means, its presence in all areas, including fighter jet engines. Their new WS-15 will be at the end of this decade equal in performance if not better to the NPO Saturn izdeliye 117 (AL-41F1) , or the Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100.
...China is hardly likely to order 300 as a first order, but if they can't make an engine better than an RD-33 then what makes you think they can make an Al-41?
What I understood, after several months, if not years of searching in the web, as many pundits said, regarding what I've already posted few months ago, concerning China's potential.
As I said previously, in the tool-machinery industry China is likely to be around the end of the decade the leader in this top strategic area. Contrary to before, they nowadays have the assets, regarding the quality of their engineers, regarding human potential, and the new setting that are in China's hand is particulary money.
They have huge amount of money, far greater than USA, Russia, Swiss, Germany. They have at least 5.000 billions of $ ready. None country in the world is able to have this amount of money.
Regarding the strategic area of tool-machinery -high quality, mean high technology, means high precision- you have the following ranking:
Quality
1-Swiss
2-Germany/Japan/Italy
3-Swede, Norway, nothern european countries
4-USA/UK/France
5-Russia ?/South Korea/Taiwan
6-China
7-India, Australia, etc...
And the first producer in the world of tool machinery, the first market du to his huge automobile-market is China. This asset, will boost the tool-machinery innovations, and undoubtly, China does not lack of brighting engineers.
Around the next decade, China du to its huge investissements will be undoubtly the first in every ranking.
Back to your question
...China is hardly likely to order 300 as a first order, but if they can't make an engine better than an RD-33 then what makes you think they can make an Al-41?
Untill now China tried to copy because they could not afford to produce a such engine either RD-33 or AL-41, because they lacked of money, lack of good engineers, as the best chinese engineers fled to western countries, or in USA. The chinese system deterred any intiatives, the bureaucracy etc...
Hence, China lacked of fair infrastructures to do the same prowess as Russia. Even in semi conductor area, they lacked infrastructures, and lack of all.
Overall, all pundits are agree that in the next decade, China is becoming the new giant. New giant means, its presence in all areas, including fighter jet engines. Their new WS-15 will be at the end of this decade equal in performance if not better to the NPO Saturn izdeliye 117 (AL-41F1) , or the Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100.
type055- Posts : 101
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the reason why china want to buy SU35 from a most reliable mic insider on chinese military forum
he said shenyang has task to produce J11 J15 J16 . they can't produce that fast , and we have hundreds of J7 J8 （2th g fighter) need to replace, J20 / J31 still need time ，
second they have interest in the tech, they want to learn their russia counterpart how to modify SU27 , and interest in the structure, the engine~ but they want to SU35 has our AESA radar and has ability fire our own missiles
when pla import some weapons they will definately take apert and study how this weapon work.
buy J20 first stage will not 117s , they plan to use WS-10G(G means modify in chinese) has 14tons power
here is a pic about WS-10G on J11
and second stage they will use WS-15 ( the real 4th gen engine） WS-15 project goes well
about engines we took a tough lesson
before 1990 first when PLA desire what kind of aircraft, then they will starts to develop engine for this aircraft .
if the aircraft planed be cancelled , they cancelled the engine project, but engine need long time to mature
after 2000 they decide build independent engine projects ~
poor english sorry
he said shenyang has task to produce J11 J15 J16 . they can't produce that fast , and we have hundreds of J7 J8 （2th g fighter) need to replace, J20 / J31 still need time ，
second they have interest in the tech, they want to learn their russia counterpart how to modify SU27 , and interest in the structure, the engine~ but they want to SU35 has our AESA radar and has ability fire our own missiles
when pla import some weapons they will definately take apert and study how this weapon work.
buy J20 first stage will not 117s , they plan to use WS-10G(G means modify in chinese) has 14tons power
here is a pic about WS-10G on J11
and second stage they will use WS-15 ( the real 4th gen engine） WS-15 project goes well
about engines we took a tough lesson
before 1990 first when PLA desire what kind of aircraft, then they will starts to develop engine for this aircraft .
if the aircraft planed be cancelled , they cancelled the engine project, but engine need long time to mature
after 2000 they decide build independent engine projects ~
poor english sorry
GarryB- Posts : 40487
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A modern sophisticated jet engine is complicated and made of exotic materials... not just any country with smart engineers can put together a modern powerful reliable engine... just like not just any country can build a decent UAV.
It is not just a question of money or smart engineers... it is a skill and a technology that the countries that do do it well have spent trillions of dollars and millions of man hours working on.
No disrespect meant to China.
It is not just a question of money or smart engineers... it is a skill and a technology that the countries that do do it well have spent trillions of dollars and millions of man hours working on.
No disrespect meant to China.
Tyloe- Posts : 32
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So far there are currently six known prototypes and the J-20 program is likely closing to its initial operational capability in a few years. Since the emergence of prototype serial number 2011 in February 2014 there are refinements with the newest prototypes; cropped canards and vertical stabilisers, a modified air intake, modified wing leading-edge extensions, and a new electro-optical targeting system (EOTS) under the nose. So far there's no news of the development of the WS-15 engines due to high confidentiality but very likely to be completed in the near future. Here are some photos of the ongoing tests at Chengdu with the newest prototypes.
![Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter - Page 4 14]<img src=](https://servimg.com/view/19163638/14]<img src=)
type055- Posts : 101
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two pics of J20's cartridge
type055- Posts : 101
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army emblem on 2001
George1- Posts : 18505
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this aircraft's primary role is air superiority or strike?
Tyloe- Posts : 32
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George1 wrote:this aircraft's primary role is air superiority or strike?
The J-20 is a multi-role/air superiority fighter. Designers from the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group, the manufacturer itself have also stated it before. The notion that it's a strike platform only came from American journalists who still visually think the J-20 is a 'overly long' body aircraft, also from fears down the rabbit hole, that it is designed solely to strike carrier groups without even reading through source material published from Chengdu itself.
Engineers working and testing the J-20 have stated that high instability was a design priority which is why the J-20 has a canard-delta wing configuration as it can sustain a pitch for a high angle of attack much easier than a conventional set-up. Not something you'd see in a strike/bomber design. The leading edge extensions was included to work in synchronize with the front canards to allow the aircraft achieve high alpha. This meant giving the aircraft a proportionally longer fuselage, and with the small diamond fin tails, this is where the illusion that the J-20 is an "overly long aircraft" came from. From sole appearance alone most American journalists and sources still wrongly assume it's a 'long body aircraft only fit for strike', without actually measuring real data of the plane.
In reality this aircraft is only about 20 meters long, about the same length of a Su-27 but still not much longer than other fifth-gen aircraft, (F-22 is 18.92 meters long while the PAK-FA is 19.8 meters long). The canard delta layout itself should be more enough to hint that's not meant to be a strike aircraft, but a multi-role fighter to include strike capability.
Tyloe- Posts : 32
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A rare top view of no. 2015 taking off. '2015' is the youngest prototype, bearing the closest design changes and technologies to the J-20 aircraft for production. This prototype is likely recently transferred to CFTE at Xi'an-Yanliang.
Tyloe- Posts : 32
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Photo of recent test flight
Last edited by Tyloe on Thu May 28, 2015 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
GarryB- Posts : 40487
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Location : New Zealand
And the first producer in the world of tool machinery, the first market du to his huge automobile-market is China. This asset, will boost the tool-machinery innovations, and undoubtly, China does not lack of brighting engineers.
Around the next decade, China du to its huge investissements will be undoubtly the first in every ranking.
Back to your question
Look at your list:
1-Swiss
2-Germany/Japan/Italy
3-Swede, Norway, nothern european countries
4-USA/UK/France
5-Russia ?/South Korea/Taiwan
6-China
7-India, Australia, etc...
It is not until you get to 4th on that list... well you call it 4th but if you give each country their own number then you actually have this list:
1-Swiss
2-Germany
3-Japan
4-Italy
5-Sweden
6-Norway
7,8,9-northern european countries
10--USA
11-UK
12-France
13-Russia
14-South Korea
15-Taiwan
16-China
17-India
18-Australia, etc...
If you just look at the list above it is not until you get to 10 that you find a country able to make decent jet engines... 10,11,12,13 and that is all... all the rest have inferior products or no products at all in the jet engine range.
Your claim is that China is moving up that list... OK... I wont dispute that, but I also ask what difference it makes when there are no decent Swiss engines... the Saabs of Sweden don't use Swedish engines either...
Good engines are hard... aerodynamics don't change much but engines can make or break an aircraft design.
I am sure that China can learn but they wont learn just by buying something off the shelf... licence production would be expensive but also a valuable learning experience and investing in that they could certainly become real players in the market.
type055- Posts : 101
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Join date : 2014-09-03
GarryB wrote:And the first producer in the world of tool machinery, the first market du to his huge automobile-market is China. This asset, will boost the tool-machinery innovations, and undoubtly, China does not lack of brighting engineers.
Around the next decade, China du to its huge investissements will be undoubtly the first in every ranking.
Back to your question
Look at your list:
1-Swiss
2-Germany/Japan/Italy
3-Swede, Norway, nothern european countries
4-USA/UK/France
5-Russia ?/South Korea/Taiwan
6-China
7-India, Australia, etc...
It is not until you get to 4th on that list... well you call it 4th but if you give each country their own number then you actually have this list:
1-Swiss
2-Germany
3-Japan
4-Italy
5-Sweden
6-Norway
7,8,9-northern european countries
10--USA
11-UK
12-France
13-Russia
14-South Korea
15-Taiwan
16-China
17-India
18-Australia, etc...
If you just look at the list above it is not until you get to 10 that you find a country able to make decent jet engines... 10,11,12,13 and that is all... all the rest have inferior products or no products at all in the jet engine range.
Your claim is that China is moving up that list... OK... I wont dispute that, but I also ask what difference it makes when there are no decent Swiss engines... the Saabs of Sweden don't use Swedish engines either...
Good engines are hard... aerodynamics don't change much but engines can make or break an aircraft design.
I am sure that China can learn but they wont learn just by buying something off the shelf... licence production would be expensive but also a valuable learning experience and investing in that they could certainly become real players in the market.
Jet engine need long time to mature， that’s why some people don't see China's progress, from core engine to mature product, it need at less 15 years. every coutry is same.
China already invest huge in engine industry and build a lot of test facilities. yes good engine is hard. But they have a need and capabilites,most importantly they have determination.
China do not want to be controled by other country, from start point China decided no matter how far they lag behind , they will keep chasing advanced country like U.S. They make a long term plan.
It just a matter of time China catch up with other countries .
berhoum- Posts : 119
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Tyloe- Posts : 32
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Join date : 2015-02-24
Flight taken of prototype no.2015 or modified no.2013
Guest- Guest
"The latest prototype of the Chengdu J-20, China's fifth-generation stealth fighter, with the temporary tail number "2016" has begun taxiing tests recently, according to Sina's military news web portal.
There are at present seven prototypes of the aircraft, which had its maiden test flight in early 2011. The main mission of the prototype with the initial tail number "2001" was to undertake a maiden flight and to test the aircraft's aerodynamic structure and stealth capabilities. The prototype which originally had the tail number "2002" (now been repainted as "2004") was used mainly to test avionics, as well as the hydraulics and the pneumatics of the weapons bay. Later it was also used to test bomb drops.
Another two prototypes have not conducted test flights, including what is now the "2002" and the "2003," and have likely been used for static strength tests, ground-based radar cross-section tests, fatigue tests and the "iron bird" test platform. Six prototypes have previously carried out flight tests, the "2001," the "2002," (now the "2004") and the 2011, as well as three newer prototypes with the tail numbers "2012," "2013" and "2015.""
Source: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20150916000062
There are at present seven prototypes of the aircraft, which had its maiden test flight in early 2011. The main mission of the prototype with the initial tail number "2001" was to undertake a maiden flight and to test the aircraft's aerodynamic structure and stealth capabilities. The prototype which originally had the tail number "2002" (now been repainted as "2004") was used mainly to test avionics, as well as the hydraulics and the pneumatics of the weapons bay. Later it was also used to test bomb drops.
Another two prototypes have not conducted test flights, including what is now the "2002" and the "2003," and have likely been used for static strength tests, ground-based radar cross-section tests, fatigue tests and the "iron bird" test platform. Six prototypes have previously carried out flight tests, the "2001," the "2002," (now the "2004") and the 2011, as well as three newer prototypes with the tail numbers "2012," "2013" and "2015.""
Source: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20150916000062
max steel- Posts : 2930
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Forgotten Russian MiG Resurrected as New Chinese 5th Generation Jet?
The first Russian fifth generation fighter is not the much advertised T-50, which according to plan should begin to arrive into the Russian Military and Space Forces in early 2016, but the almost forgotten project MiG 1.44, which was abandoned in the early 2000s.
The MiG 1.44 was developed in conjunction with the F-22 and could have gone into service in the late nineties but the collapse of the state, along with the difficult economic situation in the country, did not allow this to happen and the project had to be abandoned, with preference given to the ‘Sukhoi’ series.
Despite the fact that the project was canceled in Russia, MiG 1.44 sparked great interest in China as the country is currently developing two of such fifth-generation fighters.
According to the Chinese, the J-20 will become the first full-fledged Chinese fifth-generation fighter but more interesting is that J-20 has a number of obvious resemblances to the MiG 1.44, and according to analysts of the Defence Aviation these similarities are striking.
"Both have a delta wing and a V-shaped tail part, which means that the Chinese while developing the aircraft kept the Russian prototype in mind,” Defence Aviation noted.
However, there is a main difference and that is that the Chinese J-20 at its center has "stealth" technology, whereas, the Russian MiG-1.44 was designed for air combat and eventually turned out, according to the Defence Aviation, very maneuverable for its size.
The Chief Editor of "Arms Export" Andrei Frolov noted that the Chinese have still not reached the level of technology needed to build a fifth-generation fighter.
“In particular, this applies to the engine — powerful and reliable, with variable thrust vector, as well as electronic warfare, which in turn makes our participation in the development of J-20 almost inevitable,” website Warfiles reported Frolov as saying.
In this context, Frolov mentioned the recent deal to sell 24 Russian Su-35, which was sold to the Chinese complete with the latest Russian AL-41F1engines, also known as the "Article 117". China does not need the plane, however the engines are essential for the continuation of the R&D of the fifth generation jets.
The first Russian fifth generation fighter is not the much advertised T-50, which according to plan should begin to arrive into the Russian Military and Space Forces in early 2016, but the almost forgotten project MiG 1.44, which was abandoned in the early 2000s.
The MiG 1.44 was developed in conjunction with the F-22 and could have gone into service in the late nineties but the collapse of the state, along with the difficult economic situation in the country, did not allow this to happen and the project had to be abandoned, with preference given to the ‘Sukhoi’ series.
Despite the fact that the project was canceled in Russia, MiG 1.44 sparked great interest in China as the country is currently developing two of such fifth-generation fighters.
According to the Chinese, the J-20 will become the first full-fledged Chinese fifth-generation fighter but more interesting is that J-20 has a number of obvious resemblances to the MiG 1.44, and according to analysts of the Defence Aviation these similarities are striking.
"Both have a delta wing and a V-shaped tail part, which means that the Chinese while developing the aircraft kept the Russian prototype in mind,” Defence Aviation noted.
However, there is a main difference and that is that the Chinese J-20 at its center has "stealth" technology, whereas, the Russian MiG-1.44 was designed for air combat and eventually turned out, according to the Defence Aviation, very maneuverable for its size.
The Chief Editor of "Arms Export" Andrei Frolov noted that the Chinese have still not reached the level of technology needed to build a fifth-generation fighter.
“In particular, this applies to the engine — powerful and reliable, with variable thrust vector, as well as electronic warfare, which in turn makes our participation in the development of J-20 almost inevitable,” website Warfiles reported Frolov as saying.
In this context, Frolov mentioned the recent deal to sell 24 Russian Su-35, which was sold to the Chinese complete with the latest Russian AL-41F1engines, also known as the "Article 117". China does not need the plane, however the engines are essential for the continuation of the R&D of the fifth generation jets.
George1- Posts : 18505
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The first prο-series fighter J-20
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
max steel- Posts : 2930
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Join date : 2015-02-12
Location : South Pole
China’s latest J-20 stealth fighter could be first production aircraft
Beijing’s newest supersonic warplane could mark the end of the American monopoly on stealth fighter jets.
China has apparently begun mass production of its new J-20 stealth fighter, making it only the second country in the world to produce radar-evading warplanes on a large scale.
But as with all military developments in China, it’s hard to separate fact from Communist Party-sponsored fiction—and equally difficult to predict just how heavily even large numbers of working J-20s could weigh on the military balance of power in the Pacific region.
The Chinese air force debuted the first prototype of the bulky, twin-engine, twin-tail J-20 in December 2010 at an airfield in southeast China belonging to the Chengdu Aerospace Corp., a state-owned airplane-maker.
Beijing’s test pilots got to work putting the new supersonic warplane—at 67 feet long, one of the biggest fighters in the world—through its paces, testing out its systems, flight characteristics and engines. (They’re either Russian-made AL-31s or Chinese WS-10s.) Over the next five years another seven copies of the J-20 joined the first example, each sporting small improvements over its predecessor. All J-20s feature the distinctive sharp angles of a plane designed to minimize its detectability by enemy sensors.
The first eight J-20s were developmental, meant to support the gradual refinement of the new plane’s final design. But the ninth J-20, which government-run news outlet Xinhua revealed in a Dec. 29 story, is different. Signs point to this J-20 being the definitive version of the stealth fighter—and the first in what could be a long production run potentially numbering in the scores or even hundreds of planes.
To be clear, Xinhua was careful to imply, but not say outright, that the J-20 has entered full production. “The outside world would interpret it as the first mass-produced aircraft of the type J -20,” the news site stated. (end of excerpt)
Beijing’s newest supersonic warplane could mark the end of the American monopoly on stealth fighter jets.
China has apparently begun mass production of its new J-20 stealth fighter, making it only the second country in the world to produce radar-evading warplanes on a large scale.
But as with all military developments in China, it’s hard to separate fact from Communist Party-sponsored fiction—and equally difficult to predict just how heavily even large numbers of working J-20s could weigh on the military balance of power in the Pacific region.
The Chinese air force debuted the first prototype of the bulky, twin-engine, twin-tail J-20 in December 2010 at an airfield in southeast China belonging to the Chengdu Aerospace Corp., a state-owned airplane-maker.
Beijing’s test pilots got to work putting the new supersonic warplane—at 67 feet long, one of the biggest fighters in the world—through its paces, testing out its systems, flight characteristics and engines. (They’re either Russian-made AL-31s or Chinese WS-10s.) Over the next five years another seven copies of the J-20 joined the first example, each sporting small improvements over its predecessor. All J-20s feature the distinctive sharp angles of a plane designed to minimize its detectability by enemy sensors.
The first eight J-20s were developmental, meant to support the gradual refinement of the new plane’s final design. But the ninth J-20, which government-run news outlet Xinhua revealed in a Dec. 29 story, is different. Signs point to this J-20 being the definitive version of the stealth fighter—and the first in what could be a long production run potentially numbering in the scores or even hundreds of planes.
To be clear, Xinhua was careful to imply, but not say outright, that the J-20 has entered full production. “The outside world would interpret it as the first mass-produced aircraft of the type J -20,” the news site stated. (end of excerpt)
max steel- Posts : 2930
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Join date : 2015-02-12
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Chinese PL-15 combined with the J-20
Even in the prototype stage, the PL-15 is already an international star. Speaking at the 2015 Air Force Association conference the same week as the test, USAF Air Combatant Commander General Hawk Carlisle cited the PL-15 as the reason for Congress to fund a new missile to replace the American AMRAAM. His reasons for concern is the PL-15’s range. By incorporating a ramjet engine, its range could reach 150-200km, was well as its terminal maneuverability. That would out-range existing American air-to-air missiles, making the PL-15 not just a threat to fighters like the F-35, but also to US bombers and aerial tankers critical to American air operations across the vast Pacific. General Carlisle called “out-sticking” the PL-15 a high priority for the USAF.
Indeed, in the wake of Carlisle’s comments, Air Combat Command hinted that it’s not just the capabilities of a single PL-15 that have got Carlisle and presumably other Air Force leaders so worried—it’s how many PL-15s the Chinese air force could fire at one time.
“Few weapons operate in a vacuum,” Maj. Michael Meridith, an Air Combat Command spokesman, told The Daily Beast in an email. “We are interested in a wide variety of operational characteristics like payload, guidance system, warhead type, portability, guidance, resistance to countermeasures, reliability/maintainability, speed, range, etc., which are different based on the weapons system and the other capabilities it employed with.”
Consider that China’s J-11 fighters—versions of the iconic Russian Flanker jet—could, with upgrades, haul as many as 12 missiles the size of the PL-15, plus two smaller missiles, for a staggering 14 weapons in total.
By comparison, the U.S. Air Force’s top-of-the-line F-22 in its normal configuration carries a maximum of six AIM-120 missiles and two shorter-range Sidewinders.
An air to air missile that has a range of up to 200 km.The ability for the J-11 to carry as many as 12 of them. *Heads will Roll*
Even in the prototype stage, the PL-15 is already an international star. Speaking at the 2015 Air Force Association conference the same week as the test, USAF Air Combatant Commander General Hawk Carlisle cited the PL-15 as the reason for Congress to fund a new missile to replace the American AMRAAM. His reasons for concern is the PL-15’s range. By incorporating a ramjet engine, its range could reach 150-200km, was well as its terminal maneuverability. That would out-range existing American air-to-air missiles, making the PL-15 not just a threat to fighters like the F-35, but also to US bombers and aerial tankers critical to American air operations across the vast Pacific. General Carlisle called “out-sticking” the PL-15 a high priority for the USAF.
Indeed, in the wake of Carlisle’s comments, Air Combat Command hinted that it’s not just the capabilities of a single PL-15 that have got Carlisle and presumably other Air Force leaders so worried—it’s how many PL-15s the Chinese air force could fire at one time.
“Few weapons operate in a vacuum,” Maj. Michael Meridith, an Air Combat Command spokesman, told The Daily Beast in an email. “We are interested in a wide variety of operational characteristics like payload, guidance system, warhead type, portability, guidance, resistance to countermeasures, reliability/maintainability, speed, range, etc., which are different based on the weapons system and the other capabilities it employed with.”
Consider that China’s J-11 fighters—versions of the iconic Russian Flanker jet—could, with upgrades, haul as many as 12 missiles the size of the PL-15, plus two smaller missiles, for a staggering 14 weapons in total.
By comparison, the U.S. Air Force’s top-of-the-line F-22 in its normal configuration carries a maximum of six AIM-120 missiles and two shorter-range Sidewinders.
An air to air missile that has a range of up to 200 km.The ability for the J-11 to carry as many as 12 of them. *Heads will Roll*
max steel- Posts : 2930
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Join date : 2015-02-12
Location : South Pole
PLA Air Force: J-20 Stealth Fighter Jet Has Not Been Commissioned
According to the official Weibo account of the Chinese PLA Air Force, reports since May 30 on J-20 stealth fighter jet’s service in the PLA Southern Theater Command and comprehensive training between J-20 and J-10 stealth fighter jets are not true. And as a matter of fact, J-20 has not joined the PLA Air Force.
The so-called "TV images" cited by those false reports are actually the images of J-20’s flight that were misused when a TV program reported an aviation unit of the air force under the PLA Southern Theater Command on May 29. Some media reported by citing "sources" saying that "the direction of future operations of J-20 exposed" and it is also false.
Currently, the J-20 stealth fighter and Y-20 transport plane are doing relevant test flights based on schedules. In the near future, J-20 and Y-20 will be put into service and this will effectively enhance the PLA Air Force’s capability to fulfill its missions.
It is a common practice for militaries around the world to develop and update their weapons and equipment. In recent years, China has developed some new weapons relying on its own strength, which aims to meet the reasonable needs of maintaining national sovereignty, security and territorial integrity, safeguarding national security development and ensuring the realization of peace and development
According to the official Weibo account of the Chinese PLA Air Force, reports since May 30 on J-20 stealth fighter jet’s service in the PLA Southern Theater Command and comprehensive training between J-20 and J-10 stealth fighter jets are not true. And as a matter of fact, J-20 has not joined the PLA Air Force.
The so-called "TV images" cited by those false reports are actually the images of J-20’s flight that were misused when a TV program reported an aviation unit of the air force under the PLA Southern Theater Command on May 29. Some media reported by citing "sources" saying that "the direction of future operations of J-20 exposed" and it is also false.
Currently, the J-20 stealth fighter and Y-20 transport plane are doing relevant test flights based on schedules. In the near future, J-20 and Y-20 will be put into service and this will effectively enhance the PLA Air Force’s capability to fulfill its missions.
It is a common practice for militaries around the world to develop and update their weapons and equipment. In recent years, China has developed some new weapons relying on its own strength, which aims to meet the reasonable needs of maintaining national sovereignty, security and territorial integrity, safeguarding national security development and ensuring the realization of peace and development
George1- Posts : 18505
Points : 19008
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
China’s Newest 1,305MPH Next-Gen Stealth J-20 Fighter Jet Soars the Skies
The advance of the J-20 fighter program is cause for concern for Japan which faces a several year capability gap until the F-35 Lightning II becomes combat ready – if it ever does.
China’s Chengdu Aircraft Company (CAC) has built a new Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) J-20 stealth fighter jets with video footage on Chinese websites showing the latest rendition in full fury this week. This is the second known J-20 LRIP fighter jet after the first with the serial number 2101 displayed in late December 2015. There are believed to be a total of four such next generation jets in the possession of the Chinese Air Force.
The fighter jet is painted in shades of gray along with a toned down national insignia, but unlike previous J-20s, it has no identifiable serial numbers. China’s official Xinhua and CCTV news outlets have yet to confirm the existence of the new J-20 despite video evidence to confirm its existence.
Security analysts believe that the appearance of the LRIP fighter jet suggests that it is nearing introduction into service with the People’s Liberation Army Air Force well ahead of official US Department of Defense projections that the J-20 would become operational in 2018.
The J-20 soars at a top speed of 1,305MPH (2,100kmh) and features a stealth design comparable to Lockheed-Martin’s F-35 Lightning II although with far fewer reported technical setbacks and safety concerns. The J-20’s weapons are carried internally, with a central bay believed to contain four beyond visual range air-to-air missiles (BVRAAMs) as well as two short-range air-to-air missiles (AAMs).
Only one challenge remains before the J-20 is inducted into the Chinese Air Force – what power source will be used for mass production of the fighter jet? Currently, the J-20 is powered by two Russian Saturn AL-31 engines, but Beijing hopes to eventually install 180-kN (40,000-pound-trhust) rated WS-15 turbofans, but the indigenous jet engine development program has run into a series of manufacturing problems that has delayed their full scale production.
The emergence of the J-20 over the skies of the South and East China Seas would provide Beijing with unparalleled regional air superiority as they continue to battle over the contested Paracel and Spratly Islands amidst US intervention and for the Senkaku (Diaoyu) Islands against Japan.
The advance of the J-20 fighter jet comes at a worrying time for Tokyo which faces a several year capability gap as they wait to see whether a functional F-35 fighter jet will ever fully materialize after the US prohibited their ally from acquiring the ultra-elite F-22 Raptor.
http://sputniknews.com/military/20160723/1043535249/j20-beijing-stealth-fighter-jet.html
The advance of the J-20 fighter program is cause for concern for Japan which faces a several year capability gap until the F-35 Lightning II becomes combat ready – if it ever does.
China’s Chengdu Aircraft Company (CAC) has built a new Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) J-20 stealth fighter jets with video footage on Chinese websites showing the latest rendition in full fury this week. This is the second known J-20 LRIP fighter jet after the first with the serial number 2101 displayed in late December 2015. There are believed to be a total of four such next generation jets in the possession of the Chinese Air Force.
The fighter jet is painted in shades of gray along with a toned down national insignia, but unlike previous J-20s, it has no identifiable serial numbers. China’s official Xinhua and CCTV news outlets have yet to confirm the existence of the new J-20 despite video evidence to confirm its existence.
Security analysts believe that the appearance of the LRIP fighter jet suggests that it is nearing introduction into service with the People’s Liberation Army Air Force well ahead of official US Department of Defense projections that the J-20 would become operational in 2018.
The J-20 soars at a top speed of 1,305MPH (2,100kmh) and features a stealth design comparable to Lockheed-Martin’s F-35 Lightning II although with far fewer reported technical setbacks and safety concerns. The J-20’s weapons are carried internally, with a central bay believed to contain four beyond visual range air-to-air missiles (BVRAAMs) as well as two short-range air-to-air missiles (AAMs).
Only one challenge remains before the J-20 is inducted into the Chinese Air Force – what power source will be used for mass production of the fighter jet? Currently, the J-20 is powered by two Russian Saturn AL-31 engines, but Beijing hopes to eventually install 180-kN (40,000-pound-trhust) rated WS-15 turbofans, but the indigenous jet engine development program has run into a series of manufacturing problems that has delayed their full scale production.
The emergence of the J-20 over the skies of the South and East China Seas would provide Beijing with unparalleled regional air superiority as they continue to battle over the contested Paracel and Spratly Islands amidst US intervention and for the Senkaku (Diaoyu) Islands against Japan.
The advance of the J-20 fighter jet comes at a worrying time for Tokyo which faces a several year capability gap as they wait to see whether a functional F-35 fighter jet will ever fully materialize after the US prohibited their ally from acquiring the ultra-elite F-22 Raptor.
http://sputniknews.com/military/20160723/1043535249/j20-beijing-stealth-fighter-jet.html
George1- Posts : 18505
Points : 19008
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Chinese fighter J-20 in production
In recent days, there was a lot of photos of the new generation Chinese fighter J-20 from Chengdu, where the aircraft factory, there are now at least three cars located. It could be wrong, but it seems that the plant has started or it is ready to begin production of the first batch of fighters for the PLA Air Force.
By the way, ten days ago there were rumors that allegedly ordered by the size of the first batch of 40 fighters J-20, to be delivered over the next three years. The cost of the first serial fighter again, allegedly is 175-202 mln. Euros a piece. All these figures are certainly now impossible to verify and, I have been questioned, but bring them here, that in the future to check how true they were.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2157640.html
In recent days, there was a lot of photos of the new generation Chinese fighter J-20 from Chengdu, where the aircraft factory, there are now at least three cars located. It could be wrong, but it seems that the plant has started or it is ready to begin production of the first batch of fighters for the PLA Air Force.
By the way, ten days ago there were rumors that allegedly ordered by the size of the first batch of 40 fighters J-20, to be delivered over the next three years. The cost of the first serial fighter again, allegedly is 175-202 mln. Euros a piece. All these figures are certainly now impossible to verify and, I have been questioned, but bring them here, that in the future to check how true they were.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2157640.html