Ukraine Military: Situation and Needs

arpakola wrote:

    

NATO Blames Ukrainian Military for Delaying Reforms

Cockerill shoot Falarick 90mm

Ukrainian Army shot down Russian UAV FORPOST that costs 6 million USD.

http://lugansk-news.com/ukrainian-army-shot-down-russian-uav-forpost-that-costs-6-million-usd/

Сборка БЛА "Форпост" и "Застава" на УЗГА

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/658798.html

‘Drone Company’ of Russian 19th Motorized Rifle Brigade. A story of their Ukrainian ‘trip’

https://en.informnapalm.org/drones-company-of-russian-19th-motorized-rifle-brigade-a-story-of-their-ukrainian-trip/

Further Evidence of GRU Operations in Ukraine

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7frKzBIbbQnZFZxVFFMdG9meW8/view?pli=1

http://crime.in.ua/statti/20150521/krah-gru

AirCargo wrote:Further Evidence of GRU Operations in Ukraine

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7frKzBIbbQnZFZxVFFMdG9meW8/view?pli=1

http://crime.in.ua/statti/20150521/krah-gru

Are you actually posting SBU reports now? Seriously?

OminousSpudd wrote:

AirCargo wrote:Further Evidence of GRU Operations in Ukraine

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7frKzBIbbQnZFZxVFFMdG9meW8/view?pli=1

http://crime.in.ua/statti/20150521/krah-gru

Are you actually posting SBU reports now? Seriously?

When you rely on bullshit sources like bellingcat, seems aircargo wont go short on whatever bullshit he can use. Not surprising. Americans cant really think too well. Hence why all their competitions for intelligence relies upon foreigners like the IBM competition

Ukraine Ramps Up Arms Production Amid Crisis

Since January Ukrainian armorers have built 36 times more weapons than they did during the same period of last year, the country’s top arms maker announced on Wednesday.

“Our biggest achievement this year is that Ukraine is once again able to turn out good weapons… Our main priority now is a switch to the production of high precision weapons putting on stream the very latest designs,” Ukroboronprom director Roman Romanov said, adding that nearly 4,000n units of new and upgraded weapons had been supplied to the country’s military over the past year.

Of these 105 were tanks and armored vehicles, almost 3,000 rockets, 605 missile and artillery systems an 459 radio communication, electronic jamming and navigation units.

However, revived after being virtually mothballed since the 1992 Soviet breakup, Ukroboronprom’s enterprises are now facing a acute shortage of specialists.

Most of the experienced staff quit their dying enterprises back in the 1990 and have since lost their skills.

The plants, which managed to survive the years of neglect and disrepair, are manned by pensioners or those who are about to retire due to old age.

Ukroboronprom is a state-owned conglomerate of approximately 130 defense and engineering organizations specializing in the development, production and sale of arms and other military gear.

It is also in charge of Ukraine’s military-industrial complex.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150708/1024376971.html#ixzz3fJhycAyu

I created this topic out of interest because there was nothing else quite like it here. I made this topic to have fun, and to hear opinions from whoever wants to post here. We all know that Ukraine's Military is in desperate need of modernization in all areas. From doctrine to equipment. Say you were given the job of modernizing Ukrop equipment in a similar style to how Georgia did it before 888. How would you go along the task and what would you procure?

Let's say that the IMF gave you a loan consisting of several billion USD for this, so money isn't that big of a problem. Bear in mind that you would obviously want to reduce reliance on Soviet/Russian equipment, ranging from small arms to fighter aircraft, this also makes anything coming from Russia off-limits. The ultimate end goal is to create a military that would seamlessly integrate with NATO. Thanks to how the US sells weapons, Congress will likely block anything larger and more advanced than small arms in fear that the NAF will get their hands on it. The Ukrop MIC (or what is left of it) still has lobbying power, so equipment from corporations like Antonov and KMDB is virtually a must.

While I have a little time, I will throw in my thoughts and what I read. I will update this topic by adding my thoughts on different pieces of equipment that the Ukrops could procure. Please feel free to share your thoughts too, I am very interested to hear them.

A new fighter would be close to the top of the Ukrop military's priorities. Rebuilding the outdated Su-27 and MiG-29 fleets is extremely difficult without Russia and any effort to try to get as many of as airworthy as possible would be shoddy at best.

The chronic shortage of money would mean that these fighters would have to have the lowest operating costs. The two Western fighters that are the cheapest to operate would be the Lockheed-Martin F-16 Falcon and the Saab JAS-39 Gripen.

The sale of any Falcons would likely be prohibited by Congress after seeing how the Ukrops are so good at keeping weapons and other tech in their own hands.

I would choose the Gripen and try to opt for the NG models. There are a lot of attractive features that the Gripen offers, like low maintenance, which would be a blessing to the Ukrops. It could even use recce pods to take over some of the Su-24MR's duties.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:A new fighter would be close to the top of the Ukrop military's priorities. Rebuilding the outdated Su-27 and MiG-29 fleets is extremely difficult without Russia and any effort to try to get as many of as airworthy as possible would be shoddy at best.

Why would the UAF need a new fighter ASAP?

Ivan the Colorado wrote:The chronic shortage of money would mean that these fighters would have to have the lowest operating costs. The two Western fighters that are the cheapest to operate would be the Lockheed-Martin F-16 Falcon and the Saab JAS-39 Gripen.

The sale of any Falcons would likely be prohibited by Congress after seeing how the Ukrops are so good at keeping weapons and other tech in their own hands.

I would choose the Gripen and try to opt for the NG models. There are a lot of attractive features that the Gripen offers, like low maintenance, which would be a blessing to the Ukrops. It could even use recce pods to take over some of the Su-24MR's duties.

Why wouldn't old second/third-hard F-16 be less acceptable than new Gripens which contain more advanced US-hardware?

Werewolf wrote:I am honest and i think i will speak for more than just me when i say that there are many not wanting to see Ukrop military rebuilded but rather destroyed, Ukraine absorbed into Russia so they actually can have peace and order and than rebuild into russian military, no other way around it unless you want for next decades the shit like it is now.

I am confident that you speak for at least 99% of the members here when saying you want the Hohol's fighting capabilities destroyed, myself included. I don't want Ukraine to be integrated into Russia but that is a whole other topic. It's also kinda obvious that the West will not let its experiment called Ukraine go down the drain that easily.

This topic was made to look at how Ukraine could rebuild its military and what equipment they could buy. A purely hypothetical scenario and not one to be taken so seriously.

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:A new fighter would be close to the top of the Ukrop military's priorities. Rebuilding the outdated Su-27 and MiG-29 fleets is extremely difficult without Russia and any effort to try to get as many of as airworthy as possible would be shoddy at best.

Why would the UAF need a new fighter ASAP?

Ivan the Colorado wrote:The chronic shortage of money would mean that these fighters would have to have the lowest operating costs. The two Western fighters that are the cheapest to operate would be the Lockheed-Martin F-16 Falcon and the Saab JAS-39 Gripen.

The sale of any Falcons would likely be prohibited by Congress after seeing how the Ukrops are so good at keeping weapons and other tech in their own hands.

I would choose the Gripen and try to opt for the NG models. There are a lot of attractive features that the Gripen offers, like low maintenance, which would be a blessing to the Ukrops. It could even use recce pods to take over some of the Su-24MR's duties.

Why wouldn't old second/third-hard F-16 be less acceptable than new Gripens which contain more advanced US-hardware?

The UAF doesn't need to a new fighter right now. However, I expect it is a high priority in Kiev in the future. For a government that thinks that the EBIL RUSKIES will invade any second and for a government that knows that they wouldn't last a few hours in an air war with the VVS, I would think new fighters are high on the priority list for Ukraine.

As for the F-16s. Those used F-16s could not come from the US and they can't contain advanced US avionics (at least until after 2016) and why settle for a few worn down airframes when you could get something newer? The Gripen has the same upgrade capability as the Falcon and is compatible with NATO equipment as well.

And GarryB, I think you mixed up NATO in the beginning of the 21st century to the NATO of today to be completely honest. It doesn't make the Ukrops any less expendable though.

Ukraine does not need a military. EU/NATO are supposed to be friendly and Russia is deterred by political and economical means.
The main threats are domestic.
Consequently, the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine should be dissolved and its assets moved to other ministries (mostly Internal Affairs) or sold.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:The UAF doesn't need to a new fighter right now. However, I expect it is a high priority in Kiev in the future.

If it is not a high priority now, it is not a high priority.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:For a government that thinks that the EBIL RUSKIES will invade any second and for a government that knows that they wouldn't last a few hours in an air war with the VVS, I would think new fighters are high on the priority list for Ukraine.

Don't confuse what the say with what they think.
The Kiev government knows that they won't invaded by Russian forces, but they keep talking about it in order to maintain support in Ukraine and the West.
IIRC Russia's VVS is history.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:As for the F-16s. Those used F-16s could not come from the US and they can't contain advanced US avionics (at least until after 2016) and why settle for a few worn down airframes when you could get something newer? The Gripen has the same upgrade capability as the Falcon and is compatible with NATO equipment as well.

Because they are more affordable and would be delivered sooner than the Gripens.

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Ukraine does not need a military. EU/NATO are supposed to be friendly and Russia is deterred by political and economical means.
The main threats are domestic.
Consequently, the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine should be dissolved and its assets moved to other ministries (mostly Internal Affairs) or sold.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:The UAF doesn't need to a new fighter right now. However, I expect it is a high priority in Kiev in the future.

If it is not a high priority now, it is not a high priority.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:For a government that thinks that the EBIL RUSKIES will invade any second and for a government that knows that they wouldn't last a few hours in an air war with the VVS, I would think new fighters are high on the priority list for Ukraine.

Don't confuse what the say with what they think.
The Kiev government knows that they won't invaded by Russian forces, but they keep talking about it in order to maintain support in Ukraine and the West.
IIRC Russia's VVS is history.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:As for the F-16s. Those used F-16s could not come from the US and they can't contain advanced US avionics (at least until after 2016) and why settle for a few worn down airframes when you could get something newer? The Gripen has the same upgrade capability as the Falcon and is compatible with NATO equipment as well.

Because they are more affordable and would be delivered sooner than the Gripens.

Well Ukraine is convinced that they need a strong and active military and nothing will change that under the current political climate. The EU and NATO have been biggest instigators of this conflict from the very beginning. Russia isn't deterred by any political or economic means from the West, Crimea is still Russia and that won't change soon. And thanks to the liberation of Krim, Ukraine is convinced that their biggest threats are from the outside from the start. What Ukraine has said about Russia invading them has also been reflected in their actions. Like rumors of heavy militarization with S-300 batteries all along the border to Sumy, far removed from the conflict. Ukraine's military would find itself getting annihilated by Russia on all fronts. One would think that they would commit all their usable resources to the fight but that isn't the case. The West already eats up all the crap that the Ukrops are spewing without any evidence provided. If you want, I will gladly discuss the politics here elsewhere with you, (Ukraine thread or PMs).

Why not settle for some used Gripens in that case? The Gripens are known to be lower maintenance than the F-16s and new builds would last even longer. Besides the US may put diplomatic pressure on any country that would try to sell their Falcons to Ukraine. IMHO the Gripens are a better investment in the long run.

The people of Ukraine, whether Russian, Ukrainian, Cossack, Tatar, whatever heritage they may have, will be the real losers in all of this... They are basically at best pawns and at worst casualties "collateral damage" in the struggle between two great powers, the USA, and Russia, a struggle caused by American policy and American designs on the region.

The USA is basically trying to box Russia in and leave Russia isolated and weak.

What is happening in Ukraine does not need to happen, it is not natural, it is being caused almost entirely by the aggressive designs of the USA and NATO.

"Roads in the east of Ukraine are littered with signs of war: roadblocks, craters, tanks, and camo-painted trucks. Occasionally a Mitsubishi L200 pickup painted in a striking black and grey geometric pattern will roll by. That’s Azov Battalion. Its trademark camo print covers its trucks and personnel carriers, and announces the battalion’s arrival to battle on its custom-built tanks and armored vehicles. Azov member and factory foreman Bogdan Zvarych says the group moved into the compound earlier this year after police requested their help to clear it out. “It was overrun with criminals. There were people with guns, drugs, making fake alcohol,” he said. “Normal police couldn’t come here, it was too difficult.” Realizing they’d stumbled upon the ideal workshop, Azov signed a lease and set up. “Before we were preparing our trucks in normal garages around Kyiv. These cars with all this armored equipment and anti-tank rockets were sitting in the garage of a private person,” he laughs. “This is our reality, Ukraine reality.” Ukraine’s military budget went into decline after the country left the Soviet Union in 1991, a trend that’s only reversed recently. When separatist aggression started in the east in March 2014, the country’s defense force numbered 150,000 (out of a population of 45 million), only 5,000 of whom were battle ready. To tighten the slack, volunteers hastily organized themselves into battalions and headed to the front.

Zvarych invited us inside the workshop, where a small team of student welders, engineers, and guys who worked here back when the factory made tractors, are finishing off their latest creation, “Azovette.” The battalion has a hodgepodge fleet of armored vehicles, including a converted garbage truck which they affectionately call “Pechyvo,” Ukrainian for “Cookie.” But today they’re working on converting a tank-turned-farm-tractor back to a tank. Zvarych walks us around the metal beast, pointing out the layers of armor, each 7cm thick and lined with explosives intended to disperse the impact of any strike. Most projectiles capable of penetrating the 7cm of armor will be shaped-charged missiles, consisting of a hollow cone that lays concave to the tip of the projectile and is backed by explosives. When detonated, the explosives hit the apex of the cone and propel it forward, effectively turning the cone inside out and forming a focused jet of explosive energy that drives the projectile forward for maximum impact. The explosives in Azovette’s armor are intended to counteract the shaped-charge by driving energy in the opposite direction so the cone can’t turn inside out to focus the blast.

It turns out an old T-64 is pretty easy to come by in Ukraine. During Ukraine’s peace time, starting with its independence in 1991 and ending with the current conflict in March 2014, the tanks were put to other uses. “The plant that made the tanks legalized them for everyday use. They made bulldozers and farm equipment using the tracks,” Zvarych says, pointing to a bright yellow tractor body that once belonged to the T-64 currently under construction. “Anyone can buy these.” “A tank costs around $2 million to buy from the government but this tractor cost less than $50,000 and with the help of our engineers we can build a much better tank,” he says. Azov’s Engineering Group is about ten men working under the creative direction of the battalion’s own “crazy professor,” Mykola Stepanov.Stepanov worked as an engineer and deputy director at Malyshev Factory for 46 years. The state-owned plant was the biggest tank manufacturer in the USSR and the birthplace of the T-64 currently in front of us......"

Source and full article: http://warisboring.com/articles/a-tour-of-ukraines-mad-max-tank-factory/

Few photos if you dont feel like visiting this warisboring biased pile of...you know what:

"U.S. President Barack Obama authorized a deal to send $20 million of sophisticated radar equipment to Ukraine, Business Insider reported Wednesday. The Pentagon had been discussing the radar for months, but it wasn't until a high-profile meeting between Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin that Obama decided to finalize the deal. U.S. President Barack Obama authorized a deal to send $20 million of sophisticated radar equipment to Ukraine, Business Insider reported Wednesday. The Pentagon had been discussing the radar for months, but it wasn't until a high-profile meeting between Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin that Obama decided to finalize the deal.

The equipment to be provided by the U.S. will be AN/TPQ-36 radar systems that can target the point of origin of missiles from between 18-24 kilometers (11-15 miles) away. The equipment is so precise that it can originate the location of a missile or artillery weapon after a single shot.Nearly 75 percent of the fatalities experienced on the Ukrainian side, according Ukraine's Ministry of Defense, have been because of artillery or missile attacks, and the new radar equipment could be a game changer for the Ukrainian military. The Ukrainian military was attacked by pro-Russian separatists in the Donbass region Wednesday, the Kyiv Post reported. No fatalities have been reported from Wednesday's attack.



The U.S. decision to send the radar could have very significant consequences for the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine, some experts said. "Washington's willingness to move forward with radars sends a clear signal that the U.S. may consider sending lethal weapons should the Minsk II process fail," said Adrian Karatnycky, an analyst for the Atlantic Council, a defense and security think tank. "In the long term, the West must help Ukraine's arms industry modernize, which can be modeled on the successful efforts undertaken in Poland and other Central European states," Karatnycky said."

How many is 22mil of these radars idk, some old price from late 90s says one costs 1,5million USD, but that probably different by now.

Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/october_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/us_to_send_20$_million_of_sophisticated_radar_an/tpq-36_to_ukraine_4011020152.html

Kiev May Now Have As Many as 16,000 Armed Deserters on Its Hands

As many as 16,000 personnel from the Ukrainian Armed Forces, many of them armed, are believed to have deserted the conflict zone in Kiev's so-called 'anti-terrorist operation' in eastern Ukraine, Chief Military Prosecutor Anatoly Matios told reporters.

"We have investigated 16,000 criminal cases against deserters, who left the zone of the military operation; a significant number left together with their weapons," Matios noted, in an interview for Ukraine's TV 112.

Matios also appeared to blame the country's Internal Affairs Ministry, noting that in the course of the past year, the ministry had caught and launched criminal cases against no more than a thousand of the suspected deserters.

"In the course of a year, the organs of the Internal Affairs Ministry have not been able to find more than a thousand of them. Where did they go? They did not fly away; they went home. This means that local police are not doing their job, with their monthly salary of 2,000 hryvnia [about $95 US]. It means that the whole system is not working."

Draft Dodgers Extraordinaire: Ukrainians Become Jehovah’s Witnesses to Avoid Conscription
Only a month ago, the Prosecutor's Office had declared that there were only 6,500 cases of desertion, emphasizing that the numbers have actually been declining through the course of the past year.

As Ukrainian media cited by Russia's Rossiyskaya Gazeta have reported, the forces most likely to desert together with their weapons have been fighters from Ukraine's ultranationalist volunteer battalions. After deserting, these individuals turn into criminal formations, using their weapons to carry out criminal undertakings in cities across Ukraine.

Last month, Colonel Alexander Pravdivets, the Deputy Chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces' Mobilization Department, noted that nearly 27,000 men had managed to evade conscription during the country's sixth wave of mobilization, which ended in August. This amounts to over 50 percent of the total men who were called up. Army officials explained that draftees avoided them by going into hiding, moving to new addresses, or leaving Ukraine altogether, with the total number of medical exemptions on the rise.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20151005/1028034616/ukraine-army-deserters.html#ixzz3nh4EXkbB