Project 20836 Derzkiy-class modular Corvette

hoom wrote:

It is but still not enough place for second helo. Isnt it 20ft containers bay? so still point is this is not ASW ship better then 20380. For double price? Ah yes licensed copy S-100 UAV can be carried eventually too.

Frankly? I am not a big fan of expensive ship with no better capabilities for actually anything than predecessors.

I think you misunderstood, I'm saying there is no 2nd helo, the door (at least as rendered there) is too short to move a big chopper through.

No better capabilities? A brand new multi-frequency AESA setup, extra SAMs, Kalibr capability, faster top speed, better endurance & multi-mission bay don't count as better capabilities?
Edit: think of 20386 as a GP frigate rather than an ASW corvette.

PapaDragon wrote:
Door is definitely big enough to move chopper through. That bay is supposed to receive different equipment on the fly so door size accommodates that.

Also, helicopter can't be serviced in that bay, it's too tight, it needs to be moved to the back section for maintenance and checkup.

Also, they can simultaneously use Ka-27 + Ka-226 combo. One for ASW other for general S&R work. Extra simplicity.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:.......
So far it is either 4 kalibrs or 1 helo . No place fo anything else. Where do you get info about Ka-226?! OK this is only my opinion. I am no admiral IMHO not worth experiment resources it requires.

no room at all to detach the rotor shaft.

Still it's a bit wasteful not to simply install bit taller doors, would do wonders for flexibility. As for Ka-226, it was just me being creative.

And if helicopter is permanently parked there then what's the point of those two containers in the back?

hoom wrote:...................
Point is the towed array, boats & containers are all replaceable with modules to do other stuff: air/sea/sub drones, missiles, diving stuff, emergency gear, minesweeping gear, just supplies to extend endurance/drop off somewhere, whatever you can fit in a container.
Unlike LCS, 20386 will always have a decent base capability without container modules.

yeah looks like it might maybe fit through without the rotor shaft but I presume thats not the sort of thing you would do at sea for storage

PapaDragon wrote:

hoom wrote:...................
Point is the towed array, boats & containers are all replaceable with modules to do other stuff: air/sea/sub drones, missiles, diving stuff, emergency gear, minesweeping gear, just supplies to extend endurance/drop off somewhere, whatever you can fit in a container.
Unlike LCS, 20386 will always have a decent base capability without container modules.

Another question:

If this ship is loaded with UKSK container and without helicopter does it have any methods of targeting submarines it detects?

Also, Uran launchers are equipped with Kh-35 missiles. Are there any indications that they might be developing some new ordinance for Uran launchers like supersonic Anti-ship missiles or anti-sub missiles?

Isos wrote:................
There is already a torpedo missile for Kalibr family. So yes it could target a submarine if it carries uksk.

Isos wrote:......Uran are for cheap vessels as a self defence system. Vital ships will all get uksk so it is unliklely they develop new missiles. Unless if export countries like vietnam or india who use uran in big numbers want something new.

PapaDragon wrote:

Another question:

If this ship is loaded with UKSK container and without helicopter does it have any methods of targeting submarines it detects?

Also, Uran launchers are equipped with Kh-35 missiles. Are there any indications that they might be developing some new ordinance for Uran launchers like supersonic Anti-ship missiles or anti-sub missiles?

PapaDragon wrote:

Isos wrote:................
There is already a torpedo missile for Kalibr family. So yes it could target a submarine if it carries uksk.

I know about that, what I mean was could vessel without helicopter or torpedo UKSK fight off submarine somehow?

Isos wrote:......Uran are for cheap vessels as a self defence system. Vital ships will all get uksk so it is unliklely they develop new missiles. Unless if export countries like vietnam or india who use uran in big numbers want something new.

Yes but those launchers will be in use for decades on quite a few ships and at some point Kh-35 will be long in the tooth so developing something new that fits Uran launcher should be prudent.

PapaDragon wrote:

Isos wrote:................
There is already a torpedo missile for Kalibr ..............

......

Isos wrote:......Uran are for cheap vessels as a self defence system. Vital ships will all get uksk so it is unliklely they develop new missiles. Unless if export countries like vietnam or india who use uran in big numbers want something new.

Yes but those launchers will be in use for decades on quite a few ships and at some point Kh-35 will be long in the tooth so developing something new that fits Uran launcher should be prudent.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Another question:

If this ship is loaded with UKSK container and without helicopter does it have any methods of targeting submarines it detects?

Also, Uran launchers are equipped with Kh-35 missiles. Are there any indications that they might be developing some new ordinance for Uran launchers like supersonic Anti-ship missiles or anti-sub missiles?

Then only answer  I can see is UAV gizmos in 2 extra 20ft containers

TheArmenian wrote:...Anyways, the Pr.20386's main missions will not be Anti-ship warfare. Leave that to the Karakurts and other vessels....

TheArmenian wrote:.............The multi-use under deck space will also be used for unmanned warfare (UAVs and Robot submarines) of various types. This type of warfare is going to be very popular and interesting in the coming years and decades. As I mentioned in a previous post, the pr.20386 is designed for the future.

They were definitely thinking ahead with these ships.

hoom wrote:...
The big concerns are:
Its expensive when 20385 was already considered too expensive. (but as before if you consider it relative to Frigate classes it looks better)...

hoom wrote:...Will the Zaslon radar system actually emerge & work properly/with 9M96 (&/or 9M96 actually eventually work properly depending on what the actual issue is). Currently the only actual known container module being developed is Kalibr & a working example of that hasn't actually been demonstrated yet. New novel propulsion system.The hullshape is actually pretty novel, does have some risk....

hoom wrote:...To a certain extent though I still think just building more 11356 could be quicker & more effective for similar price...

TheArmenian wrote:
Regarding ASW, the pr.20386 will use Paket torpedos and Ka-27 helicopters.

TheArmenian wrote:

I knew you could think straight when you are not drunk

The multi-use under deck space will also be used for unmanned warfare (UAVs and Robot submarines) of various types. This type of warfare is going to be very popular and interesting in the coming years and decades. As I mentioned in a previous post, the pr.20386 is designed for the future.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:The ship is weakly armed yes for its size there is no denying that it requires containers which then it must choose what it wants to get more proper weapons for a ship of that size even then it's still rather light.

That said the ship has good utility, it's best to think of this has a big support vessel with good multi-function characteristics.

In a warship sense it's poor, however in a none combat roll, it's a good ship.

The thing is with ships unless you make them huge, you have to pick what you want do you want a ship armed with loads of weapons but is useless at anything other then fighting or do you want a ship that you can get creative within it's use etc drones and what not.

With the Derzkii they went with the utility mindset. Which isn't bad.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:The ship is weakly armed yes for its size there is no denying that it requires containers which then it must choose what it wants to get more proper weapons for a ship of that size even then it's still rather light.

That said the ship has good utility, it's best to think of this has a big support vessel with good multi-function characteristics.

In a warship sense it's poor, however in a none combat roll, it's a good ship.

The thing is with ships unless you make them huge, you have to pick what you want do you want a ship armed with loads of weapons but is useless at anything other then fighting or do you want a ship that you can get creative within it's use etc drones and what not.

With the Derzkii they went with the utility mindset. Which isn't bad.