miketheterrible wrote:
Kh-35 missiles of latest modification can also attack land targets as well as ships. So that is also an ideal system too.
But their range is still belów 300km
miketheterrible wrote:
Kh-35 missiles of latest modification can also attack land targets as well as ships. So that is also an ideal system too.
GunshipDemocracy wrote:miketheterrible wrote:
Kh-35 missiles of latest modification can also attack land targets as well as ships. So that is also an ideal system too.
But their range is still belów 300km
PapaDragon wrote:GunshipDemocracy wrote:miketheterrible wrote:
Kh-35 missiles of latest modification can also attack land targets as well as ships. So that is also an ideal system too.
But their range is still belów 300km
They should develop anti-sub version of Kh-35, should be simple enough
Having Uran launcher compatible anti-sub missile would really give ships some extra flexibility
hoom wrote:Obviously yes the volume of that slot is more than ample for a UKSK module.
Whether there is top-weight for it I dunno, as is it looks pretty top-heavy already.
I still can't think of a really legit reason for its absence in the first place.
PapaDragon wrote:hoom wrote:Obviously yes the volume of that slot is more than ample for a UKSK module.
Whether there is top-weight for it I dunno, as is it looks pretty top-heavy already.
I still can't think of a really legit reason for its absence in the first place.
Price probably, they may want to keep price of first ship in class low
Vladimir79 wrote:PapaDragon wrote:hoom wrote:Obviously yes the volume of that slot is more than ample for a UKSK module.
Whether there is top-weight for it I dunno, as is it looks pretty top-heavy already.
I still can't think of a really legit reason for its absence in the first place.
Price probably, they may want to keep price of first ship in class low
Not only initial price but operational cost. To keep a full load of missiles constantly on the ready is expensive, even the USN doesn't go to sea with full load-outs unless in wartime.
Isos wrote:..............
Isn't it the same to store missiles in UKSK or in a storage complexe on land ?
TheArmenian wrote:It looks like the RuNavy will stop ordering Pr. 20380 ships.
Instead they want to concentrate on the Pr. 20386 which they consider much superior.
However the costs are going to jump.
Pr.20386 ships will cost each around $450 million.
While Pr.20380 can be obtained for half that money.
TheArmenian wrote:It looks like the RuNavy will stop ordering Pr. 20380 ships.
Instead they want to concentrate on the Pr. 20386 which they consider much superior.
However the costs are going to jump.
Pr.20386 ships will cost each around $450 million.
While Pr.20380 can be obtained for half that money.
Several reasons:does it have golden toilets or what?
GunshipDemocracy wrote:TheArmenian wrote:It looks like the RuNavy will stop ordering Pr. 20380 ships.
Instead they want to concentrate on the Pr. 20386 which they consider much superior.
However the costs are going to jump.
Pr.20386 ships will cost each around $450 million.
While Pr.20380 can be obtained for half that money.
does it have golden toilets or what? 450mln for a corvette? BTW wasn't 20386 equipped with Kh-35 instead of Zircons/Kalibrs?
TheArmenian wrote:GunshipDemocracy wrote:
does it have golden toilets or what? 450mln for a corvette? BTW wasn't 20386 equipped with Kh-35 instead of Zircons/Kalibrs?
Do you realize that 20386 is 50% larger than a 20380?
hoom wrote:Several reasons:does it have golden toilets or what?
Its 3400ton (if the laying down poster was correct) ie about size of Grigorovich bigger -> more expensive.
Has MFR-90 gas turbines linked to a new partial integrated electric propulsion (electric for the Diesels, direct for the gas turbines) new, exotic propulsion -> more expensive.
Zaslon new multi-frequency radar/ECM/EW system, hopefully exists & will be in service on 20385 before 20386 finishes but its still got a bunch of new expensive AESA antennae -> more expensive.
New multi-mission bay, this is arguably cheaper since eg no permanent towed sonar, but if you count the module moving/integration infrastructure & the actual modules (including Calibr missiles in the relevant module) that would = extra cost.
Maybe a significant effort at stealth as in actual stealthy detail stuff = more expensive.
A theoretical force mix of 22800 + 20386 + 22350M is arguably better & simpler than 22161 + 20380 + 11356/22350 + Lider.
Then what precisely task is 20386? it doesn't look like anti ship warfare. ASW? with one optional chopper? then what precisely for this money and size?
Oops, I meant Project 21631Is 22161 armed variant of 22160?
Well still better armed than LCS & probably the FFX.Then what precisely task is 20386? it doesn't look like anti ship warfare. ASW? with one optional chopper? then what precisely for this money and size?
Peŕrier wrote:Are really 20386s going to have a (cruise) electric propulsion? It is just a breakthrough new!
If that is the case, and real world tests will be successful, it is the opening of a new era for the russian navy.
PapaDragon wrote:Because it's not anti-ship vessel. It is primarily anti-sub platform. And anti-sub missions are primary purpose of Russian surface navy.
Kh-35 are for basic self-defense. And like Vladimir pointed out keeping lots of UKSK grade missiles loaded costs lots of money. Would be nice to have them but still bit redundant for anti-sub ship.
And let's not forget that there is enough space on that ship for two anti-sub helicopters, not just one.
hoom wrote:
Well still better armed than LCS & probably the FFX.Then what precisely task is 20386? it doesn't look like anti ship warfare. ASW? with one optional chopper? then what precisely for this money and size?
But yeah its not like I'm a super fan of it, personally prefer 20385.
Peŕrier wrote:Are really 20386s going to have a (cruise) electric propulsion? It is just a breakthrough new!
If that is the case, and real world tests will be successful, it is the opening of a new era for the russian navy.
Your numbers are bad.ekhm FFX costs according to wiki ~100mlns not 450 Smile
Surface water jets are not quiet.as for FCS it is not supposed to chase subs in oceans unlike 20386. FCS is much faster (47kts) and has water jets so its quieter.
hoom wrote:Your numbers are bad.ekhm FFX costs according to wiki ~100mlns not 450 Smile
LCS costs $450mil -> same cost 20386 would be a bargain.
FFX is that plus actually useful weapons/sensors, official numbers are talking $950mil.
hoom wrote:
Regarding 2 helicopters this is the multi-mission bay render (also post 42)
People have suggested a 2nd chopper could be stored in the mission bay but the door isn't tall enough.
I think you misunderstood, I'm saying there is no 2nd helo, the door (at least as rendered there) is too short to move a big chopper through.It is but still not enough place for second helo. Isnt it 20ft containers bay? so still point is this is not ASW ship better then 20380. For double price? Ah yes licensed copy S-100 UAV can be carried eventually too.
Frankly? I am not a big fan of expensive ship with no better capabilities for actually anything than predecessors.