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Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship
kumbor- Posts : 313
Points : 305
Join date : 2017-06-09
Constantinople/Stamboul?
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
Probably Novorossisk.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6165
Points : 6185
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
Isos wrote:
130km for 3sqm jets won't make it AEW.
Helicopter radar needs to have good resolution for mapping in order to use atgm from 10km away and in this case long range aginst naval threats.
Puting a radar designed for fighters inside an helicopter without adaptating it for its needs is stupid. Better put them inside mig29smt and let ka-52 with old radar.
AFAIK Parameters on card were for version from 2009, Then Zhuk it was profound update for MiG-35, What are thier characteristics nobody knows really. Hermez AGTM can have up to 100km range (standard Hermes-A 20km tho)
GarryB- Posts : 40522
Points : 41022
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
The Ka-52K reconnaissance and attack helicopter is capable of striking armored and unarmored vehicles, manpower, surface and air targets. Initially, this machine was developed for the Mistral, therefore, the Katran is equipped with a folding propeller and wing consoles, on which the armament is mounted - subsonic anti-ship missiles X-31 or X-35.
Interesting, because there are UAVs shown at the Zala website showing the standard Ka-52 with under wing pylon mounted boxes holding large numbers of air launched UAVs that can be released from the helo in flight and controlled from the gunners position... something similar would be useful at sea... perhaps some Sonobouy or surface drone with a dipping sonar that could be dropped at sea that could search for enemy subs which could be attacked with 400mm torpedoes and the surface UAV could be picked up again by the helo after use so it is not too expensive to operate and not disposable...
So we have small AEW too ;-)
Fixed forward looking radar.... unlike the 360 degree antenna of the Ka-31.
true but Mi-42 fits both SAR & attack alike
Mi-42 doesn't actually exist yet though does it?
But for 20 years I`ve thought that Ka-52 is dedicated combat helicopter with many armament options! But if it "only carry pilots" it is small, light observation helicopter then!??
Ka-52K is modified to operate from Mistral carriers... folding main rotors, folding stub wings, new modern AESA nose mounted radar... new weapons options.
The land based Ka-52 is a heavy recon/attack helo.
Puting a radar designed for fighters inside an helicopter without adaptating it for its needs is stupid. Better put them inside mig29smt and let ka-52 with old radar.
Not many tanks at sea so no point in keeping standard radar.... this new radar is much better at detecting targets at much greater range than the MMW radar fitted to normal Hokum helicopters... the land based helo would not be interested in targets further away than about 30km...
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6165
Points : 6185
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
GarryB wrote:true but Mi-42 fits both SAR & attack alike
Mi-42 doesn't actually exist yet though does it?
ok now better: if Mi-42 existed it would fit to attack and SAR roles.
Isos- Posts : 11599
Points : 11567
Join date : 2015-11-06
Not many tanks at sea so no point in keeping standard radar.... this new radar is much better at detecting targets at much greater range than the MMW radar fitted to normal Hokum helicopters... the land based helo would not be interested in targets further away than about 30km...
It will still be used to attack ground targets mainly. So it still needs MMW radar. It's used on a lavina not on a carrier.
It's not aimed at replacing ka-27 and ka-31.
GarryB- Posts : 40522
Points : 41022
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
ok now better: if Mi-42 existed it would fit to attack and SAR roles.
I would suspect the Mi-42 is pretty much dead, as is the Mi-40, but any potential result from the new work on high speed helos might result in a medium helicopter that could also perform the role intended for those cancelled aircraft.
It will still be used to attack ground targets mainly. So it still needs MMW radar. It's used on a lavina not on a carrier.
It's not aimed at replacing ka-27 and ka-31.
The radar on the Ka-52 is intended mainly for detecting and tracking ground targets including vehicles and buildings of all types, as well as troops and other targets including aerial targets over the battlefield.
For use on the Ka-52K the demand is to track rather fewer potential targets, but would require the detection of air targets at much greater ranges....
MMW radar as used on land based helos is excellent for detecting and tracking small targets against a ground background because of the detail they produce... the problem is that they are not really very useful for very long range use... as I said targets beyond 30km would be difficult for such systems.
With CM wave radar much greater volumes of space can be scanned for targets, and to compensate for ground clutter as an AESA radar it can use a lot of signal processing to find and track low altitude targets.
For the naval helo low flying anti ship missiles and indeed speed boats, submarine masts or divers heads would be normal targets... as well as bouys and other things.
The Ka-52K on a Mistral would be performing the same roles suggested for a STOVL fighter jet on the same carrier.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6165
Points : 6185
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
GarryB wrote:ok now better: if Mi-42 existed it would fit to attack and SAR roles.
I would suspect the Mi-42 is pretty much dead, as is the Mi-40, but any potential result from the new work on high speed helos might result in a medium helicopter that could also perform the role intended for those cancelled aircraft.
I dont expect old program to be resurrected. But the idea of creating gunship/transport/SAR helicopter is alive and kicking. In Russia VDV wants this in US this is called FVL.
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3880
Points : 3858
Join date : 2016-04-08
An RT Documentary about one of the boats that go inside the 22160's hanger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdGra6XTzls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdGra6XTzls
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6165
Points : 6185
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
SeigSoloyvov wrote:An RT Documentary about one of the boats that go inside the 22160's hanger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdGra6XTzls
do you mean only animation? I'd love to see the real one
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
They do show it inside the slip in one of the episodes, don't think they'd actually tested launch/recovery yet though, most of the episode was about the journey downstream.
I wonder how successful that latch is going to work out in practice, pretty nice in theory at least.
Bit disappointed protection is only vs 5.56mm, kinda expected 7.65mm or 12.7mm but only so much that can be done within relatively limited volume/weight limit.
I sure hope more of these get translated.
I wonder how successful that latch is going to work out in practice, pretty nice in theory at least.
Bit disappointed protection is only vs 5.56mm, kinda expected 7.65mm or 12.7mm but only so much that can be done within relatively limited volume/weight limit.
I sure hope more of these get translated.
GarryB- Posts : 40522
Points : 41022
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Yes, I saw that a few months ago, but without the english subtitles.
Laughed at about 44 seconds when that blank round went off in his ear... I can relate to that when rabbit shooting.
Looks rather good to me... would be excellent for anti piracy missions.
There was a very old computer game called Hokum or something that was set in and around SE Asia where you controlled a large boat with a dozen helicopters and it had a main gun for anti aircraft use. The boat was basically a mobile air base and you could sail it around whenever needed to support your current operation.
There were lots of helicopter types on board including Lynx, Cobras, Hokums, Mi-8s, and other types that could be flown on missions. You had a limited number of helos and weapons and fuel and had to manage your operations so you had enough to complete missions. You also had to move your base/ship, which had a single gun to defend itself from air or sea attack.
Perhaps it is time for an upgrade where you start out with a Bykov or similar class vessel with these speed boats and perhaps a few armed helos... Ka-29, Ka-226, Ka-52K and the like, but as you play you can upgrade... eventually commanding a Mistral or new Russian equivalent with 16 helicopters and of course landing ships and larger attack boats/inflatables...
I remember seeing another video showing them operating this little boat at sea including launching and taking it back on board while underway...
Protection above small calibre assault rifle would make it too heavy to do what it does... better to have a few remote operated versions with gun turrets that could be sent in first to deal with any MG positions... they could have heavier armour and lots and lots of ammo... and those sound tracking systems to find the source of incoming rounds so the firing positions can be engaged directly and quickly.
Laughed at about 44 seconds when that blank round went off in his ear... I can relate to that when rabbit shooting.
Looks rather good to me... would be excellent for anti piracy missions.
There was a very old computer game called Hokum or something that was set in and around SE Asia where you controlled a large boat with a dozen helicopters and it had a main gun for anti aircraft use. The boat was basically a mobile air base and you could sail it around whenever needed to support your current operation.
There were lots of helicopter types on board including Lynx, Cobras, Hokums, Mi-8s, and other types that could be flown on missions. You had a limited number of helos and weapons and fuel and had to manage your operations so you had enough to complete missions. You also had to move your base/ship, which had a single gun to defend itself from air or sea attack.
Perhaps it is time for an upgrade where you start out with a Bykov or similar class vessel with these speed boats and perhaps a few armed helos... Ka-29, Ka-226, Ka-52K and the like, but as you play you can upgrade... eventually commanding a Mistral or new Russian equivalent with 16 helicopters and of course landing ships and larger attack boats/inflatables...
They do show it inside the slip in one of the episodes, don't think they'd actually tested launch/recovery yet though, most of the episode was about the journey downstream.
I remember seeing another video showing them operating this little boat at sea including launching and taking it back on board while underway...
Protection above small calibre assault rifle would make it too heavy to do what it does... better to have a few remote operated versions with gun turrets that could be sent in first to deal with any MG positions... they could have heavier armour and lots and lots of ammo... and those sound tracking systems to find the source of incoming rounds so the firing positions can be engaged directly and quickly.
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
Points : 430
Join date : 2018-03-02
https://crimea-news.com/society/2018/11/26/462377.html wrote:Second ship of the project 22160 "Dmitry Rogachev" successfully finished artillery trials.
So this year RuN should get 2 Bykovs, 2 Karakurts, 1 Steregushchy ship.
Hole- Posts : 11116
Points : 11094
Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 48
Location : Scholzistan
First excursion.
walle83- Posts : 976
Points : 986
Join date : 2016-11-13
Location : Sweden
Hole wrote:First excursion.
Nice, but looking at the ships behind the Fleet is in desperate need of some larger new vessels.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
Points : 7341
Join date : 2016-11-06
They wont get anything larger than a Gorshkov for foreseeable future. Which is good imo.
Isos- Posts : 11599
Points : 11567
Join date : 2015-11-06
miketheterrible wrote:They wont get anything larger than a Gorshkov for foreseeable future. Which is good imo.
Not really good if they keep building 2 or 3 every 20 years.
And like you say if they don't plan anything new bigger than gorshkov, they should at least upgrade both kirov, all Slava and all udaloy with uksk and better elecrtonics as well Oscar 2. Two shorter and kalibr carrier borei would be cheap since boreis are pretty cheap in geeneral.
flamming_python- Posts : 9523
Points : 9581
Join date : 2012-01-30
Isos wrote:miketheterrible wrote:They wont get anything larger than a Gorshkov for foreseeable future. Which is good imo.
Not really good if they keep building 2 or 3 every 20 years.
And like you say if they don't plan anything new bigger than gorshkov, they should at least upgrade both kirov, all Slava and all udaloy with uksk and better elecrtonics as well Oscar 2. Two shorter and kalibr carrier borei would be cheap since boreis are pretty cheap in geeneral.
They justify not upgrading most of the Kirovs, Slavas, Udaloys and Sovremmenyjs by saying that the upgrades will cost as much as new ships.
That's fine - so where are the new ships?
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6165
Points : 6185
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
flamming_python wrote:
They justify not upgrading most of the Kirovs, Slavas, Udaloys and Sovremmenyjs by saying that the upgrades will cost as much as new ships.
That's fine - so where are the new ships?
now close your eyes and start recalling - turbines delayed by 4 years, poliment by 5-6? , 2007 global crisis + downgrade of economy, 2008 I NATO war against Russia, 2013 II NATO war againt Russia. + add internal situation and you can see that there was significant improvement to me.
Till 2027 8 standard 22350 has chance to be accepted + perhaps M launched.
Till 2027
3 11356
8 22350
+23 2028X
+18 2163X
+18 MRK 22800
I wish they finally decided to build 22160 in armed version as cheaper alternative to 20386.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6165
Points : 6185
Join date : 2015-05-17
Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
walle83 wrote:Nice, but looking at the ships behind the Fleet is in desperate need of some larger new vessels.
true, but fisr things first. 3-4,000 km defensive preimeter along Russian borders is set. Then building can start. From relatively small ships.
GarryB- Posts : 40522
Points : 41022
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
And when the US pulls out of the INF treaty Russian land forces can add to that defensive screen on the cheap... and hopefully export the technology to allies around the region too.
I think it was Ironsightsniper that suggested Iskanders on ships in the semi ballistic anti ship role, I didn't like the idea because it lacked range (ie 500km) and upgrading it to longer range in the naval model would lead to accusations from the US about breaching the inf treaty.
With the INF treaty gone then both land based and ship and sub based intermediate range missiles make a lot of sense... especially with hypersonic terminal gliders.
I suspect that is the real reason the US wants out of the INF treaty... the US Navy seems to be leading their hypersonic glider programme and fitting them to Mk-41 launchers means an already widely deployed launch system for the new weapon.
Wonder what will happen to their enormous fleet of carriers when they introduce that and Russia does the same.
I think it was Ironsightsniper that suggested Iskanders on ships in the semi ballistic anti ship role, I didn't like the idea because it lacked range (ie 500km) and upgrading it to longer range in the naval model would lead to accusations from the US about breaching the inf treaty.
With the INF treaty gone then both land based and ship and sub based intermediate range missiles make a lot of sense... especially with hypersonic terminal gliders.
I suspect that is the real reason the US wants out of the INF treaty... the US Navy seems to be leading their hypersonic glider programme and fitting them to Mk-41 launchers means an already widely deployed launch system for the new weapon.
Wonder what will happen to their enormous fleet of carriers when they introduce that and Russia does the same.
Tingsay- Posts : 183
Points : 185
Join date : 2016-12-09
With the INF in danger of not being renewed, I can't be the only one concerned that the fairly large group of crusie missile boats (Karakurts/Buyans-Ms/Gepard) is gonna lose a lot of the ground they stand on.
Bykov must be armed better and then mass produced! If not, then order more Gremys or Derzkiis.
Bykov must be armed better and then mass produced! If not, then order more Gremys or Derzkiis.
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4890
Points : 4880
Join date : 2014-08-25
Location : Melbourne, Australia
GarryB wrote:And when the US pulls out of the INF treaty ....
... the Euro-peons will clench up with a pained and disgruntled look, just like a 50-dollar whore taking it up the arse when she wasn't expecting it.
Crude analogy I know, but its so apt.
In all seriousness, this should initiate a veritable shit-storm of outrage from the collective satrapies of Eurotrashland.
Lets see how the NATO talking-heads try to spin this. The US had to leave the INF because of Russian aggression... because... err... well.... /silence
Hole- Posts : 11116
Points : 11094
Join date : 2018-03-24
Age : 48
Location : Scholzistan
Already happened. See NATO. "Russia has 60 days to comply…"
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
It was rumored but didn't see a confirmation before so didn't post https://vk.com/wall-72814627_102858
Bykov has had a flag raising in Sevastopol today 8th. (pic at link is from Navy day I believe)
Bykov has had a flag raising in Sevastopol today 8th. (pic at link is from Navy day I believe)