Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

Once the 6 ships for the BSF are completed, the shipyard is expecting further orders of the class for a slightly modified version more suitable for colder seas (Baltic for example

Ah cool

Are these ships also affected by Ukrainian engine clusterf**k?

Still haven't found a clear answer but the CoDaD references seem to be newer -> domestic diesels?

PapaDragon wrote:
Are these ships also affected by Ukrainian engine clusterf**k?

Not directly. These ships use diesels only.
However, the Kolomna plant (that makes diesels) now has to supply diesels to many classes of ships (including the Buyans who's diesels came from Germany).

The fact that the shipyard announced a few days ago that the first ship will be completed by 2017, means that there are no delays (at least for the first unit).

Further news on this class:

The 5th unit will be laid down end of 2016/beginning of 2017.

https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160901/1475815092.html

GunshipDemocracy wrote:........

Costs could eventually explain but but unification is not less important for logistics. Do you have periods of shipbuilding and costs of both classes somewhere?

First Patrol ship was laid down well over a year ago, nearly two. First 22800 (Buyan's successor) several months ago. Both will be coming on line almost at the same time.

TheArmenian wrote:Once the 6 ships for the BSF are completed, the shipyard is expecting further orders of the class for a slightly modified version more suitable for colder seas (Baltic for example). That's what the company director mentioned a while ago.

Main facts to keep in mind about this class of patrol ships
-These 22160 ships have range (6000 nm) and endurance of larger frigates that are twice their size.
-Their modular design enables to carry mission suitable armament.
-They are going to be the most low-observable (stealthy) ships in the Ru Navy.
-They will have low operational cost and carry a modest sized crew.

so blue waters corvettes in short... hope decent aad i asw will be foreseen

PapaDragon wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:........

Costs could eventually explain but but unification is not less important for logistics. Do you have periods of shipbuilding and costs of both classes somewhere?

First Patrol ship was laid down well over a year ago, nearly two. First 22800 (Buyan's successor) several months ago. Both will be coming on line almost at the same time.

well simar ships, possible similar armament but two types. Only difference I see 22800 are not foreseen for North Fleet (buoyancy I guess)

GunshipDemocracy wrote:


well simar ships, possible similar armament but two types. Only difference I see 22800 are not foreseen for North Fleet (buoyancy I guess)

North Fleet is exactly what 22800 were designed for. In fact first 5 ships will be going to North Fleet.

Source: three patrol ship of project 22160 will be part of the Russian Navy in 2017-2018


http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3593412


Source: the second of three ships of project 22160 can get rocket complex "Caliber"


http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3593415



so now pls show me 3 major different characteristics making need for two types of such ships?

PapaDragon wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

well simar ships, possible similar armament but two types. Only difference I see 22800 are not foreseen for North Fleet (buoyancy I guess)

North Fleet is exactly what 22800 were designed for. In fact first 5 ships will be going to North Fleet.

I´ve re-checked and unfortunately you´re right earlier this year in Tv Zvezda was videa about 22800 where they claimed 22800 do not have good buoyancy for northern fleet theater.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:.........................


Source: the second of three ships of project 22160 can get rocket complex "Caliber"


http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3593415

so now pls show me 3  major different characteristics making need for two types of such ships?

They are same type and there is no difference between two ships. They are saying that second ship will be getting Kalibr containers. Remember, missile launchers on these ships are not integrated into the hull. Missiles are stored in interchangeable shipping containers in the back. Look at the pic.

They are saying that second ship will be getting those containers. Nothing is stopping them from throwing same containers on first ship as well later on. First one will probably be getting containers with Uran missiles.  

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

well simar ships, possible similar armament but two types. Only difference I see 22800 are not foreseen for North Fleet (buoyancy I guess)

North Fleet is exactly what 22800 were designed for. In fact first 5 ships will be going to North Fleet.

I´ve re-checked  and unfortunately you´re right earlier this year in  Tv Zvezda was videa about 22800 where they claimed 22800 do not have good buoyancy for northern fleet theater.

Old Tarantul and Nanuchka missile ships routinely operate in North Sea. Karakurts will have better buoyancy than both. I think that somebody on TV did not double check the data.

PapaDragon wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:.........................


Source: the second of three ships of project 22160 can get rocket complex "Caliber"


http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3593415

so now pls show me 3  major different characteristics making need for two types of such ships?

They are same type and there is no difference between two ships. They are saying that second ship will be getting Kalibr containers. Remember, missile launchers on these ships are not integrated into the hull. Missiles are stored in interchangeable shipping containers in the back. Look at the pic.

They are saying that second ship will be getting those containers. Nothing is stopping them from throwing same containers on first ship as well later on. First one will probably be getting containers with Uran missiles.  

My bad I was not specific enough but as I am b#tching about 22800 I meant why build 2 types of boats (22160 and 22800) with similar displacement , same number of VLS cells ? i am just trying to understand why double logistics effort?

GunshipDemocracy wrote:......................

My bad I was not specific enough but as I am b#tching about 22800 I meant why build 2 types of boats (22160 and 22800) with similar displacement , same number of VLS cells ? i am just trying to understand why double logistics effort?

They are not really similar. 22160 has 1300-1800 tons and 94 meters while 22800 has 800 tons and 60 meters. That is twice the size.

And Karakurts are dedicated warships that are built in half the time it takes to build Patrol ship which would be auxiliary vessel in real war.

Patrol ships have very small crew and operating costs and huge endurance. They are supposed to relieve rest of the fleet from trivial work like lengthy pirate hunting and ''diplomatic'' visits to foreign ports.

There was time when Peter the Great battlecruiser was sent to hunt pirates off the Somali coast because no other ship with that endurance was available. Can you imagine that insanity?

You still gonna get killed the same by both but if I was a Somali pirate & I saw PtG I'd be a lot more scared than if I saw a 22160

So here's a thing: The model with the containerised Calibr has the helipad forward of the stern where the containers are.

The model at the recent military show has the helipad right at the stern (is it shorter than the earlier model?)


Does possibly look like there are still covers there in the drawing & it does have a highlight with missiles (uran?), containers, mini-sub & towed sonar (?) there.

Where is the Igla launcher? Its supposed to have 1 of the Gibka launchers like on Buyan-M but I haven't been able to identify it in any pics yet.

TheArmenian wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Are these ships also affected by Ukrainian engine clusterf**k?

Not directly. These ships use diesels only.
However, the Kolomna plant (that makes diesels) now has to supply diesels to many classes of ships (including the Buyans who's diesels came from Germany).

The fact that the shipyard announced a few days ago that the first ship will be completed by 2017, means that there are no delays (at least for the first unit).

No, they (21361s) have Chinese engines.

631-635 have MTU
636-639 will have Chinese diesel engines.

22160 will have Kolomna diesels (16D49)

Everything else (CODAG, CODAD with MTU, etc.) are just options for export.

Thanks for the clarification Artjomh.

Where have you been? I look forward to hear more from you on this thread.

Fifth unit of the class will be laid down during October.

https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160922/1477582989.html

5th now due to be laid down on 25th Nov.
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3806478
Name will be Виктор Иванович Великий which translates as Victor the Great.
Apparently not royalty but this guy https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9,_%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80_%D0%98%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87 Hero of the Soviet Union as wharf commander at Nov 1943 Soviet landings at Kerch.

hoom wrote:5th now due to be laid down on 25th Nov.
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3806478
Name will be Виктор Иванович Великий which translates as Victor the Great.
Apparently not royalty but this guy https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9,_%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80_%D0%98%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87 Hero of the Soviet Union as wharf commander at Nov 1943 Soviet landings at Kerch.

Great news, can't wait to see first one complete, they are lookers definitely.


Also, thank you hoom for posting something in Naval treads that is not related to Kuznetzov butthurt war, I really appreciate it.

Yeah, I wish they'd at least get around to launching the first one so we can get a decent look at it.
I'd like to think they are doing near full fit-out before launch so that in-service comes shortly after but I'm not hopeful.

If such a vessel is successful and capable, let us hope the mod decides to order more and ha e other shipyards doing work on it. Enough of these shipyards making their own types.

miketheterrible wrote:If such a vessel is successful and capable, let us hope the mod decides to order more and ha e other shipyards doing work on it.  Enough of these shipyards making their own types.

These are anti piracy/patrol vessels not dedicated warships. Only certain fleets need them, the Northern fleet doesn't require this class of ship. These are suitable for the BSF sure. The mainfleet's will get Karakuts which is more proper for them.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:If such a vessel is successful and capable, let us hope the mod decides to order more and ha e other shipyards doing work on it.  Enough of these shipyards making their own types.

These are anti piracy/patrol vessels not dedicated warships. Only certain fleets need them, the Northern fleet doesn't require this class of ship. These are suitable for the BSF sure. The mainfleet's will get Karakutswhich is more proper for them.

Buyan/Karakurt is exactly the role these ships will have in case of war with added bonus of having full sized AA system.

PapaDragon wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:If such a vessel is successful and capable, let us hope the mod decides to order more and ha e other shipyards doing work on it.  Enough of these shipyards making their own types.

These are anti piracy/patrol vessels not dedicated warships. Only certain fleets need them, the Northern fleet doesn't require this class of ship. These are suitable for the BSF sure. The mainfleet's will get Karakutswhich is more proper for them.

Buyan/Karakurt is exactly the role these ships will have in case of war with added bonus of having full sized AA system.

In case of war anything that can be used will be used that however doesn't change what I said. Karakuts are being built to serve that purpose these ships are again Anit-piracy/patrol ships. Yes they can be used in time of war for war it's still a warship.

Just Russia will not build 20 of these, if that was the case ZERO reasons to build Karakuts or another ship. so the idea Russia would mass produce every specialized ship it makes is silly. This ships serves a limited purpose within the navy so its not going to be produced in mass numbers Frankly I'd be surprised if you see more then ten of these.

bonus of having full sized AA system

Thats one of the reasons I'm keen to see one launched: The export version pamphlet offers Sthil-1 which would give these very solid capability but most sources indicate the ones being built will have only a single Ghibka turret & not even any AK-630.

Edit: Uh I was failing to read the front part of the quoted sentence
I guess I'm over-eager to see one of these new classes other than 11356 using Sthil-1 since its an AA system with decent range & which definitely actually works.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:If such a vessel is successful and capable, let us hope the mod decides to order more and ha e other shipyards doing work on it.  Enough of these shipyards making their own types.

These are anti piracy/patrol vessels not dedicated warships. Only certain fleets need them, the Northern fleet doesn't require this class of ship. These are suitable for the BSF sure. The mainfleet's will get Karakutswhich is more proper for them.

Buyan/Karakurt is exactly the role these ships will have in case of war with added bonus of having full sized AA system.

In case of war anything that can be used will be used that however doesn't change what I said. Karakuts are being built to serve that purpose these ships are again Anit-piracy/patrol ships. Yes they can be used in time of war for war it's still a warship.

Just Russia will not build 20 of these, if that was the case ZERO reasons to build Karakuts or another ship. so the idea Russia would mass produce every specialized ship it makes is silly. This ships serves a limited purpose within the navy so its not going to be produced in mass numbers Frankly I'd be surprised if you see more then ten of these.

I never said they will be replacing anything. They are anti-piracy vessels and that is the role they will be performing.

But in case of war they will be going after same targets as Buyans and Karakurts (land targets in 90% cases, Syria style)

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:If such a vessel is successful and capable, let us hope the mod decides to order more and ha e other shipyards doing work on it.  Enough of these shipyards making their own types.

These are anti piracy/patrol vessels not dedicated warships. Only certain fleets need them, the Northern fleet doesn't require this class of ship. These are suitable for the BSF sure. The mainfleet's will get Karakuts which is more proper for them.

I mistaken the ship of course. Was thinking of another one.

These ships have the option (apparently) of Shtil-1. If that is the case, then this is one hell of a border patrol ship.