S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

ahmedfire wrote:

Vann7 wrote:Today 23 jan 2020 ,saw a report .. i think was on RT..
on the Russian military ,someone in the military was claiming
they detected with s-400s radars.. (FIVE) F-35 planes flying over iraq.. providing
protection to the american base ,when iran launched its ballistic missile attack.. on them..

The news was about Russia positioning a new S-400 air defense near iraq border..
and how they detected F-35s due to the proximity with iraq..  and they were very happy
of the performance of their radars..

unfortunately by accident clicked in the wrong button and throw me out of the page..
and when try to return is gone.. the report.. so can't post the link.. lost it..
but this is basically the most important info
on the today report by russian military.. they moved s-400s to near iraq borders..
and they detected 5x F-35s flying near their bases providing cover ..

if anyone find the report.. feel free to post it..  russia have now s-400s near iraq
and detected and tracked five f-35s .. there.. claims the russian military.

by s-400s being close to iraq border will also help russia  to fully see the air space of iraq ,without valleys
or mountains obstacles.. and detect dangerous drones of nato ,threatening iranian positions and pass
the information to them.. or directly link their radars images over iraq to iran..

This was said by the Russian Foreign Minister ,It seems the system was deployed in  Qamishli Airport " about 900 km from Tehran ".

‘Russian S-400 tracked F-35 jets near Iran-Iraq border’

The F-35 jets have not hurt Iranian airspace, so the distance was more 350-500 km.

Seems plausible, old yugoslavian AD-systems tracked F-117 jets from 50-60 km. Why should a S-400 system not track F-35 from 400 km? F-35 jets are due to their size subject to Rayleigh scattering. That's funny because if a fighter has a RCS of 0,00000000001 m^2 it's no difference to 0,1 m^2, because of Rayleigh scattering ;D LOL!

The headline said Russian radars tracked F-35s near the Iraq/Iran border so based on that map... not knowing how far north on the border they were suggests detection at 350km (7 units to the northern border) or more further south... there are ten units per 500km so therefore each unit is 50km range... so the detection range is at least 350-500km... which is not to suggest they can't detect them at greater ranges... just that that was the range they were detected at... being on the border they could hardly fly into Iranian airspace if they were protecting US bases.

All this story about C-400's deployment is a complete nonsense.

Federation' Aerospace Defense command can know in real time the models, the mouvements and the overal mission of enemy aircraft, UAVs and missiles at thousands of km from the border (often even during the preparation before the take-off...) thanks to ground and space based early warning network.

For those kind of systems RCS reducing solutions in-built in the so called "VLO aircraft" have practically no effects at all.

Obviously in order to eleminate the menaces you must still guide interceptor/fighter aircraft in the area or employ air defense system's radar and missiles but the task become obviously significantly easier.

GarryB wrote:The headline said Russian radars tracked F-35s near the Iraq/Iran border so based on that map... not knowing how far north on the border they were suggests detection at 350km (7 units to the northern border) or more further south... there are ten units per 500km so therefore each unit is 50km range... so the detection range is at least 350-500km... which is not to suggest they can't detect them at greater ranges... just that that was the range they were detected at... being on the border they could hardly fly into Iranian airspace if they were protecting US bases.

There was no mention of the S-400. They probably meant the container radar.

Mindstorm wrote:

All this story about C-400's deployment is a complete nonsense.

Federation' Aerospace Defense command can know in real time the models, the mouvements and the overal mission of enemy aircraft, UAVs and missiles at thousands of km from the border (often even during the preparation before the take-off...) thanks to ground  and space based early warning network.

For those kind of systems RCS reducing solutions in-built in the so called "VLO aircraft" have practically no effects at all.

Obviously in order to eleminate the menaces you must still guide interceptor/fighter aircraft in the area or employ air defense system's radar and missiles but the task become obviously significantly easier.

Indeed there is already a Early Warning Radar (Voronezh-DM 77Ya6-DM) with a 10,000km range in service, so it's a moot point but let the plebs duh-bait.

There was no mention of the S-400. They probably meant the container radar.

My understanding of the story is that they moved some of the radars that operate with the S-400 to new positions further east to get a better view over Iraq and Iran... not necessarily to spy on Iraq or Iran or to help either, but to monitor US operations in the region... particularly their stealth aircraft which get deployed to the middle east (F-22 and F-35 were both reportedly there at given times).

They could not possibly hand over information precise enough to get a target lock for Iran, but knowing enemy stealth aircraft are in the air and their general position means Iran can use its radar assets to determine if it can detect and track such targets which is invaluable information...

No doubt they would also detect air launched munitions which could also be information passed on to Iran... ie... you are under attack right now... have you detected it?

If you don't know you are under attack you cannot defend yourself properly and effectively... if Russia can give Iran some warning... even about weapons coming from Israel then that would make Iran safer...

Russia has no interest in being the worlds police, but passing on warnings of attacks by belligerant unfriendly countries like the US, UK, and France makes perfect sense for them and can lead to situations where otherwise not so friendly countries like Turkey can consider better relations with Russia when possible... 10 years ago there is no way Turkey would even consider S-400...

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Mindstorm wrote:

All this story about C-400's deployment is a complete nonsense.

Federation' Aerospace Defense command can know in real time the models, the mouvements and the overal mission of enemy aircraft, UAVs and missiles at thousands of km from the border (often even during the preparation before the take-off...) thanks to ground  and space based early warning network.

For those kind of systems RCS reducing solutions in-built in the so called "VLO aircraft" have practically no effects at all.

Obviously in order to eleminate the menaces you must still guide interceptor/fighter aircraft in the area or employ air defense system's radar and missiles but the task become obviously significantly easier.

Indeed there is already a Early Warning Radar (Voronezh-DM 77Ya6-DM) with a 10,000km range in service, so it's a moot point but let the plebs duh-bait.

Voronezh DM is a radar working on decimeter waves to detect RV at very high altitudes. This radar can not detect objects at low altitude horizons. For detecting cruise missiles and aircraft at distances up to 3000km there is a special Container radar. It works at a frequency of about 30 Mhz and its beam is reflected from the ionosphere. These are non-horizontal radars.

Voronezh DM is a radar working on decimeter waves to detect RV at very high altitudes. This radar can not detect objects at low altitude horizons. For detecting cruise missiles and aircraft at distances up to 3000km there is a special Container radar. It works at a frequency of about 30 Mhz and its beam is reflected from the ionosphere. These are non-horizontal radars.

That would be funny because AFAIK there are no containers in Syria so if container did detect these F-35s then they did so from Russian territory... so they are detecting F-35s from thousands of kms...

Possible

They already detected the launch of a US target missile used by Israeli in the middle of Mediteranean with radars in southern russia. Possibly the same as the one that detected the f-35.

S-400 in east Syria is not a proven fact but rather a made up claim by some biased media.

Isos wrote:They already detected the launch of a US target missile used by Israeli in the middle of Mediteranean with radars in southern russia. Possibly the same as the one that detected the f-35.

S-400 in east Syria is not a proven fact but rather a made up claim by some biased media.

Not necessarily the missile could detect Votonezh radar. In contrast, the F-35 from the territory of Russia only OTH Container radar.

Hello again, comrades !!!!!!





S-400 current deployment

according to this, there are 57 battalions, although according to other sources there would be 60 or 61

The the discordance may be in the distribution of the launchers.

For example, in 183º Kaliningrad with 4 battalions, received 24 TEL´s (no 32). which were distributed in 4 battalions of 6 launchers each

The other 8 probably are in 18º in Crimea, that also received 24 in 4 batt. of 6

Also Rogachevo (33º ZPR) could have now 2 batt. as S-300 has been sent to Tiksi (414º ZPR)

Then this is 60 batt. abd other for training, 61

Anyway the previous plan until now was 56 batt. x 8 = 448

0ther regiments as Kamchatka has 3 batt. x 4 launchers, so is probable the total number of launchers can be rigth

Also , after Crimea return to Rusia, the number of regiments have been increased in 2 aditional, with 5 or 6 not planned battalions

More new information about this is welcome


By the wat, West Command (6º Air Army and Kaliningrad) has only 9 ZPR regiments (first column)
The other 9 regiments (second column) are part of Moscow Central Command of PVO (1º Army PVO y PRO)

Not necessarily the missile could detect Votonezh radar. In contrast, the F-35 from the territory of Russia only OTH Container radar.

Don't know of any missile big enough to carry a radar antenna big enough to detect the long wave radar signal of Container... it simply would not be practical...

Neither Voronezh or Container are direct line of site radars... the former is optimised to detect high flying ballistic missiles while container should be able to see both high and low flying threats.

https://twitter.com/charly0153/status/1225731171428052992

I believe that there are many people who think that Israeli planes enter Syria when and where they want to attack in the country and that is not the case. Normally Israelis launch from beyond Syrian airspace. Last time yesterday

Fear of S-300/400 perhaps?

Some sources say that during the recent attack, Israel struck targets in Syria. He also destroyed one of the Buk and Pancyr vechicles. Israel's attacks are very weak and they are still able to hit the targets. SAA intercept only foru missile. Great Syrian anti-aircraft defense performance...

Arrow wrote:Some sources say that during the recent attack, Israel struck targets in Syria. He also destroyed one of the Buk and Pancyr vechicles. Israel's attacks are very weak and they are still able to hit the targets.

No information known to me, or public elsewhere. Some photos are in web, but older photos. Most Pantsir struck by missile were deactivated or out of missiles in the past.

Problems are following points...

Damascus is really very near to Israel border. Israel can hit at every time, every place in Damascus and South Syria with surprise.

Syrians can't hit an israeli warplane over Israel, they would claim that Syrians attacked first peacefully jets, provoking a big and heavy "retaliation". Syrians know this problematic situation, that's why never fired something in israeli airspace, if only by mistake. And only intercepting incoming missiles is  a bit more complex and difficult, than threating the attacking jets with AD.

Russia is more or less an ally of Israel. Love it or not! A high perecentage of Israelis are emigrants from former USSR. Russian language is 3. biggest spoken language in Israel with 1,23 million people. Putin and Netanyahu are really big buddies. So Russia tries to balance both, syrian and israeli interest...Russia allow Israel from time to time to attack iranian targets in Syria. Israel informs Russian Military in advance of the strike. So casualties are low, publicity is gigantic...win, win for everybody except Iran. Netanyahu is the maker, Russia the fair broker, Syria and other arabs can still hate jews like they do, since decades. Only Iran is pissed ;D but Iran is not really a true ally of Russia...whatever you hear in media. They are more constant, than an erratic Erdogan, but Iran is a THEOCRACY (okay with democratic elements)....sooner or later they will push against Russia.

Last point is...Syria has good russian AD systems, but not the most modern devices and only the export version! This is what most people don't understand!!! The Buk-M2E  system is not 100 % the Buk-M2 version. On the other side IAF jets are much better, than their american counterparts, because human factor is a extreme important factor for Israel...if they lose to many pilots, soldiers, they will lose any conflict fast, because Israel is much smaller than any neighbour with 9 million people living there. So Israel upgrades EVERYTHING they buy so extreme, to push the survivability of their soldiers. Israel ordered only 50 of F-35 but the version "Adir" is much better than any other F-35 ;D the only country USA allowed to kick out the shitty combat system and installed an indigenous system.

owais.usmani wrote:https://twitter.com/charly0153/status/1225731171428052992

I believe that there are many people who think that Israeli planes enter Syria when and where they want to attack in the country and that is not the case. Normally Israelis launch from beyond Syrian airspace. Last time yesterday

Fear of S-300/400 perhaps?

They fear all the syrian air defence as proven even s200 destroyed a f-16 and pantsirs and buks always destroy Israeli missiles.

The thing is that israeli planes can shot outside of the syrian airdefences and they have the numerical advantage as well as the money. Syrian modern air defence systems and air force are too low in numbers to compete.

Arrow wrote:Some sources say that during the recent attack, Israel struck targets in Syria. He also destroyed one of the Buk and Pancyr vechicles. Israel's attacks are very weak and they are still able to hit the targets. SAA intercept only foru missile.

Oh yes sure

This provide a clear picture of the bottom level by now reached by isreali propaganda machine; if even only one eighth of the batteries of Бук or Панцирь (for not say of outdated SAM models much less mobile and easy to detect and target from its emissions) claimed to have been destroyed by IAF in all those years of attacks would be true, Syrian AD would by now not own a single laucher

The much less shining reality is that IAF neither 35 years ago, neither 25 years ago, neither 15 ,neither 5 and even today has ever managed even only to destroy the almost fixed emplacements of C-200, and that thanks purely to masking, decoy and diversion systems and passive hardening meausres present at those syrian AD sites !!!! (all at the technological level of end of '80 years in ПВО СССР)

Those few, slightly modernized, C-200s batteries that downed an F-16 and an F-15 of IAF the last time IAF attempted to penetrate Syrian air space -after that the Federation had modernized some of Syrian soviet era SAM systems-, continue quietly to shot from theirs fixed positions at IAF since decades ....and someone is still so patsy to swallow all those jokes about destroyed batteries of Бук or Панцирь at each stand-off attack of IAF from Lebanon or Jordan airspace ? Oh please

Simply IAF has been FORCED by very few batteries of relatively modern export version of medium range and short air defense systems and a quick modernization of some of the outdated SAM batteries to give-up completely air raids foreseeing penetration of Syrian air space, this mean that on average one of those IAF stand-off attack cost several times the cost in damage it is capable to produce on the ground and the cost of the air defenses in the area even when those air defenses do not neutralize entirely the attack.

Obviously there is an assymetry in the economical potential of Syria and Israel ,but wanting to examine the tactical and strategical implication of the situation of those attacks in Syria, taking in consideration perfectly peer opponents, IAF would find itself widely on the losing side.

The best the IAF can achieve today is hit one or two empty buildings or a handful of fighters/civilians because even the best air defence system in the world can´t protect every single soldier/civilian. The rest is pure propaganda BS. They claim they hit something very important and all of the western MSM falls in line because an israeli politician/general would never lie! Even to believe for a second that one of these guys could lie would be anti-semitic!

Rumor has it that Russia has deployed S-400 to Cuba

Edit: I think there is a mix up but apparently talks are that Russia is possibly planning to reinstate an old Airforce Base in Cuba to place the S-400

miketheterrible wrote:Rumor has it that Russia has deployed S-400 to Cuba

Edit: I think there is a mix up but apparently talks are that Russia is possibly planning to reinstate an old Airforce Base in Cuba to place the S-400

I found nothing about that. Only a stupid article in the aviation geek club talking about s-400 in Cuba and how US would respond.

Any source ? Pretty useless to send s-400 there. Better to send some 20 TELs with 6 kalibr each with nuk wareheads .

Isos wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:Rumor has it that Russia has deployed S-400 to Cuba

Edit: I think there is a mix up but apparently talks are that Russia is possibly planning to reinstate an old Airforce Base in Cuba to place the S-400

I found nothing about that. Only a stupid article in the aviation geek club talking about s-400 in Cuba and how US would respond.

Any source ? Pretty useless to send s-400 there. Better to send some 20 TELs with 6 kalibr each with nuk wareheads .

Why do you need TELs? Shipping container Kalibrs exist for a reason. Nudol with 3,500km range based in Cuba covers New York City, D.C. and the entirety of Texas, combine that with S-500 and you'll have a big stick to talk softly with. While were at it add Murmansk-BM with 5,500-8000km range combined with Tirada-2, Krasuhka-2/4, should be a adequate wake up call for D.C.

Putting up S-400 systems in Cuba is a stupid idea. Either place nuclear IRBMs or don't bother.

Why?

Nobody will fake an IRBM attack since that means nuking a city or military base. But faking up the shootdown of a civilian jet is a
no brainer. Expect yanqui maggots to stage such false flag events to get their way.

I agree with you KVS. Strategic or none strategic weapons should be placed in Cuba with let's say some S-300 AD systems that were replaced. S-400 can go elsewhere.

Well if they are going to be reactivating a Soviet base there for Russia to operate from then S-400 would be part of the air defences the air base would be equipped with to protect it. That would be perfectly normal... just like Russia deployed S-400 to Syria to protect Russian forces there too.

As to how the US might react... who gives a fuck... if they want Russia to stay out of Cuba then they can get the fuck out of Europe.