Why Mig-31 ? It's not a new model. I never said PESA sucjs. I'm just saying that most russian fanboys criticized stealth and AESA as shit and usekess technology but now russia use it everywhere. And guess who will be stelthy with aesa radar ? The mig-31 replacement.
Because it is doing the most important job in Russia and needs the best radar they can shoehorn in to it to get the job done of watching for bombers and their munitions and destroying them. It is why it had an electronically scanned radar before any western fighter.
Most Russian fanboys criticised Stealth and AESA for being fucking expensive, and in the case of stealth... it worked against radar and weapons of the time but over time new systems have been developed to render their enormous cost a total waste of time and money.
The F-117 is a great example... mediocre flight performance, and a payload of two laser guided bombs, and a flight range less than modern Russian cruise missiles.
They spent enormous money on a plane that can't operate during the day time, and certainly couldn't penetrate the defences of any country with a decent IADS... which is exactly what it was for.
In Desert Storm it hit a lot of targets that didn't need to be hit again like targets hit by other aircraft, but it still needed helicopters to fly in and take out certain large radar installations and other cruise missile attacks before it could start operating behind enemy lines... if they spent a quarter of what they spend on that aircraft on making their cruise missiles better they could have saved a fortune and actually had improved capability and not had to worry about losing aircrew.
I have yet to see evidence of where an AESA equipped aircraft has managed to defeat an aircraft with a conventional radar because it had an AESA radar and the other aircraft didn't, so how can you justify having to pay such an enormous difference in price to get something not really that much different in practical terms?
Most western aircraft operate using radar information from AWACS platforms, and most Russian aircraft get radar information from ground based radar and the IADS they operate within.
Stealth is OK if it is not so expensive that you can't afford to buy many... Poland will be getting 32 F-35s but I doubt they will even be able to afford to fly them at about 80 grand US per hour flying costs... which I fully support... they should ask for more in fact.
AESA is the way of the future probably for all radar including the new photonic designs, but you need to work out which material gives you the best power and performance at the most reasonable cost... something the west cares little about clearly.
Russia has a much tighter budget, and it is amusing you see that as a negative, because that is what is killing the west...
They disputed nothing. The plane sucked and buying more sukhoi is not good for Mig. Russian didn't even tried to deny.
Of course... they were rusted old crap so the Russian Air Force put them in service... because the RuAF like rusted old crap aircraft like the Su-35 and Su-57...
Their aids are limited and far less than what customer pay. They know how to make money, don't worry for them.
They have their customers by the balls... they "give" them aide for free and then dictate what they can or cannot buy with that money, but the shit they sell usually costs more than they give so the customer ends up paying for shit they don't need and probably don't want either... I am not worried about them at all... either of them... if you are a customer and take this shit then man up and grow some balls and say no to the poisoned charity. If you are the US arms producer, I wonder how you sleep at night knowing you are forcing your inferior crap down the throats of countries you call allies, and making your own tax payers pay top dollar for it...
But Russia and China are the bad guys...
Western product have a better quality.
It says so in their colour brochures...
That's proven in every field. But if you are happy with your chinese stuff, it's ok for me.
Hahahahaha.... love it... your 100 gender all inclusive homo loving superior western civilisation... all western stuff is quality and all chinese stuff is cheap crap... keep drinking the kool aide.... we have seen the wonderful influence the west has had on the world, and quite frankly we are not interested.
WWII was about the west defeating both Nazism and Communism all at once... history is what we write it to be right, so it makes sense that reality can be ignored or distorted to suit the current situation and requirement.
Like the one mounted on their ships and awacs.
But hang on, the Russians and Soviets have been working much longer than the west on longer wave radar technologies for anti stealth roles, but are you still claiming western long wave radars are better?
Mig-35, su57, corvettes, frigates, cruisers ... they are all getting aesa and stealth. So yeah they are replacing a big part of their radars with aesa and are using stealth everywhere they can. Something US did a long time ago.
Yeah, the Soviets have had supersonic anti ship missiles for decades... over half a century actually and some new US designs that have been planned for a while might get in to service.
MiG-35 and Su-35 are not stealth, but when the new radar designs they have been developing are ready of course they will get them you idiot, but they wont become stealthy and they don't need to.
The plan for the F-35 is to have internal weapons only for the start of the conflict and then as the enemy defences are weakened and all their aircraft and major SAMs are defeated they convert to non stealthy roles with external weapons.
Stealth is only intended for the start of a conflict and even then most platforms wont benefit very much from it anyway... stealthy AWACS anyone?
Replacing old radars by new aea ON old stuff won't happen because it would be too much expensive. But the new designed stuff have aesa and stealth.
See and that is where you really don't understand the Russians. It is mass production and wide deployment that will make AESA elements affordable and much more useful than if they were only fitted to a few platforms.
That is why their corvettes have UKSK launchers... because all their upgraded and new build platforms will have the same... it is called standardisation... and really something NATO knows very little about... what is the standard NATO 5.56mm rifle for instance... even the ammo from different countries has a slightly different loading...
Again mig-31 is not a new design neither are su35, mig 35 or tu-160. Su57, pakda, mig-41 are and they will use stealth and aesa radars.
Why do you think the MiG-41 will be stealthy? And how stealthy do you think it could possibly be with an enormous radar scanning for aircraft and incoming weapons flying very low and very high... it will probably track hypersonic missiles flying at more than 40km altitude and also ballistic missiles outside of the atmosphere too... and cruise missiles hugging the terrain... what part of that do you see as being stealthy or needing to be stealthy?
Tu-160 will launch missile from 2000km away. It doesn
Actually closer to 5,000km, and possibly rather more in the near future.. but if you agree the White Swan doesn't need to be stealthy then why do you think the MiG-41 interceptor needs to be stealthy?
T-64,T-72, t-80 and t90 never had APS neither.
They can be fitted with them if they felt they needed them, the T-55s of the naval infantry had them and tested both Drozd and Drozd-2 in Afghanistan during the 1980s.
Abrams will use israeli proven trophy or iron fist. But it's not the topic for tanks.
Era, nera are add on. US and nato tank can have them if they want and they are gettig them. An abrams is already protected against russian rounds in the front without them.
US and NATO tanks needed them all along because Soviet weapons could penetrate NATO tanks... something they only worked out after the cold war ended and they got to test some of the things the Soviets had in service. If the Abrams was protected against Russian rounds why are they now adopting APS systems? If Abrams rounds were good enough why have they updated their tank gun ammo several times and Germany introduced a longer gun for their tanks?
Israel still attack Syria and SAA.
They do, but they don't climb the fence and get into Syria like they used to, they often climb the fence to the next door neighbour that has a lot of big bushes to hide in and they throw water bombs and rocks from there and then scamper back to their own property immediately afterwards.
It seems that these bullies who used to climb the fence and hit the neighbours kids with impunity are not liking the neighbours kids big uncle living there because he would kick the shit out of them if they climbed the fence and tried to beat up his little nieces and nephews again.
SAA has even better than mig 21, the mig-29. And they intercept nothing.
Which just goes to show who the aggressor actually is. Syria is interested in defending itself because it has other problems right now. Israel is a bunch of
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who will bomb and attack anyone they please... well they used to be able to do as they pleased... now it is much harder and they only have themselves to blame for that.
And those israeli slow missile hit their targets.
They seem to get lucky occasionally when they launch enough...
Or are you a fanboy that things an air defence system either stops everything or it is useless...
Israeli are not replacing f-16i and f15 with f-35. They only ordered 50 to replace old f16A and b.
Maybe in your head it's different but reality is reality.
And now they have them they probably only want 10 for airshows and parades.
My claims were for airborne aesa radar. Western use EO and IR cameras in they pod since long time ago they have experience with them. Russia never used airborbe aesa radar and russian fanboys still think they will do better with their first one.
Their materials are better and should offer significantly better performance with fewer problems.
No I claim russia is following the US path after 20 years. They introduce aesa and stealth everywhere they can now just like US 20 years before.
No they are not. The Su-57 would probably not even count as stealth in the US because they have not compromised the entire design to get the smallest possible RCS that they can. And the AESA radars the Russians will introduce will be much better performing, lighter, and cheaper... the F-22 doesn't even have high off boresight AAMs for goodness sake... the standard Soviet Fighters of the late 80s and 90s all had helmet mounted cueing systems and high off boresight AAMs.
Indians are stupid. They don't know what they want. The deal was 126 rafale to be produced in india with off-sets, and rafales to be build in india. But they also wanted Dassault to be responsible of the quality, so if the rafale build by indian suck then dassault pays the reparation. French told them to go fuck themseleves. And then ended up buying rafales directly from dassault.
You could argue that, but then you could say the French entered an aircraft in a 10 billion dollar aircraft competition that they could never have delivered for anything like 10 billion... even 25 billion would have been a push and that would be French built planes not more expensive locally built ones.
It is just annoying to read how US stealth and aesa suck but when Russia uses the exact same tech 20 years after it becomes a wonderful technology.
US Stealth and AESA radars do suck... the former is eye wateringly expensive and the latter is based on an inferior technology base that limits its performance potential... and was also expensive too.
The US military budget could be 500 billion and its aircraft inventory could be brand new F-16 and F-15 aircraft, and nothing would be different except the US debt would perhaps be 18 trillion instead of 22... but the US wants the best 10,000 dollar toilet seat they can buy... and good on them... they are destroying themselves better than Russia or China ever could.
Justification that 187 F-22 can do the work of 700+ F15 A to D is just ludicrous, if it would hold any ground they would have been permanently deployed some of them in almost one between Kadena, Lakenheath and Incirklik or Ahmad al-Jaber not at Langley or Eglin.
I remember in the late 80s when the cold war was still officially going they said they wanted 1,500 F-22s. With the end of the cold war of course in the 1990s they said 750 would do and that was the plan because that was what they needed... but when they realised there was nothing to justify even F-15s let alone F-22s they stopped production and decided to build what they thought would be the F-16 to the bigger more expensive plane because there was really no other international platform that could threaten even legacy aircraft (ie Su-27 was a simple aircraft at that time with inferior radar to the F-15) so the F-35 started development... and two things destroyed it. First was the demand that it replace everything... land based fighters, conventional sea based fighters and vertical takeoff sea based fighters. This required a lot of internal space for a huge lift fan but also puffer jets around the place for control in the hover which ruined the design balance.
To put it short they were probably over-engineered and deliberately pushing too much above the tech possibilities of their time, resulting in something having over the top performance but at expense of reliability and operational flexibility.
If only...
The second thing that killed it was the idea to make it congress proof was to spread the locations where parts were built to economically depressed areas in states where the senator had sway over the pentagon and funding for military programmes. So for instance the job of making the tires would go to a place where they never had factories before.... everything had to be imported... the factory built, workers trained, material imported from other places and production requires the final products being sent to all sorts of different places... the logistics was terrible, but the chance funding would be cut was zero and the chances funding would be increased to solve problems was pretty much 100%.
This model was first used on the C-17 and it was enormously successful... despite being fairly ordinary, and enormously expensive, the pentagon found that even when they didn't ask for any that the committee that provided money for production would order more, so they didn't bother asking for any fairly quickly but they kept production going for as long as they could because it got them re-elected to have high paying skilled jobs in depressed areas...
The results were bad... despite being very very expensive it wasn't because they were made of top quality components or were particularly well made, they were often badly made of cheap materials.... not something to learn from at all. And while funding was thrown at them, problems persisted and were covered over rather than solved...
And not, a simple modernization program of existing airplane is not a viable option: their frames are just too old and overused to allow such a refurbishing, let alone to enhance their performances in order to match those of existing 4+ and 4++ planes.
With talk of the failure of the f-35 programme, they often suggest new build F-15 and new build F-16s with newer technology... basically copying the Russians with their continuing to use the Su-35 and MiG-35 together with their Su-57, which was their model all along to not depend on a few more expensive stealthy fighters to replace the workhorses.
And he has said that the Russians are not as far behind and you try to make out, they understand AESA radar technology and chose not to introduce it the way the US has introduced it.
That totally ignores the arguement of Europe... America is right and they do everything the right way, so there is the American way and the wrong way... it is funny to say the US adopted stealth and AESA radar 20 years ago, and so the Russians are just catching up now, but as the post above from marcellogo states the US was going for an all stealth fighter fleet made of F-22s to begin with and when that became too expensive they went for a new stealth fighter to replace all 4th gen fighters in the form of the F-35, but now that they are clearly not that good and expensive they are not planning to put 4th gen fighters into production... so if you are trying to argue that the Russians are behind... it is pretty clear they were right all along and ahead of the US because Su-35s and MiG-35s are being exported and produced for domestic use, while their stealth fighter is starting production and should be able to be produced and exported for a decade or more... so who is ahead of whom?
This same manuel was considered useless by the soviet.
No, it wasn't. Of course it wasn't considered a new bible like in the US where penetrating airspace to murder people is considered more important than anything else.
And it wasnt about stealth but about mathematics and physics of signal refraction.
It was a math model to predict signal refraction and reflection... without which stealth design was hit and miss... you make a scale model and you direct radar waves at it and you measure the results... and then you build another model and repeat. You don't understand how the waves reflect and refract so it is all based on guesses and making scale models is slow when you have no basic understanding of how it all works.
With the Soviet paper they could build a model and use a computer to test thousands of shapes and designs... early computers required simple shapes with flat fractal surfaces, but later faster computers with more power and more memory meant curves could be processed.