Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #5

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Paradoxially, it was the British who saved Hinduism from utter destruction. Had Muslims remained the rulers of India, Hinduism would now either be gone completely (like Hinduism and Buddhism in Afghanistan) or at least reduced to a small persecuted minority - like Hindus in Pakistan
India owes a lot to the British. They were worse than Hindu rulers but still better than Muslims.

Riiiight, who cares about a few millions of Indians killed for the benefit of England...
And PLEASE DO READ INDIAN MEDIA and their reports on Russia/Russian actions...I've seen better from NATO's own media...
But, whatever you feel the truth is - is certainly the truth you perceive, so no point in arguing over that...please continue...

Neutrality wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Plane got struck 4km inside Syrian AS. By any means the Turks wanted that plane down, they would have known that the plane would be hit IN Syria in every case, so basically this was murder. I think the pilot must have shat his pants when ordered to fire the SU down. And it was done BEFORE the plane would be out of Turkmen Killzone.

flamming_python wrote:The position the plane was when the missile impacted it - is not the same as the position that the plane was when the missile was launched against it. A fighter jet can cover several kilometres in that time.

This is pretty elementary stuff; but Putin made no mention of it - he mentioned only where the plane was when it was hit, and where it crashed.

Then this act reveals Turkish intentions. If we're aware of this then the Turks are too. For some reason they were dead set on taking it down.

That's right, they were.

And if they made warnings first, then that indicates that they wanted to send a message, a firm one.

Of course, our side was wrong in ignoring these warnings and not heeding more caution in their flight paths. A fighter escort also should have been assigned, as Turkey has made warnings about intercepting violations before.

So now they've sent their message, it's time to send ours.

Firebird wrote:I agree. The Su was to attack ground positions of terrorist bums. It wasnt expecting to defend itself against SAM batteries and perhaps F-16s while striking ISIS. Otherwise itd have SU-35s alongside it. And Turdkey softened up by Tu160s.

I don't think WW3 will start if Russia takes on the home base of those F-16s. Article 5 is only brought up when there's "unprovoked attack".
I know it's a risk, but no different that bringing down a Russian jet that is not over your territory... Turkey carried out a provocation so this scenarion will be a "provoked attack".

This is the kind of reports that is needed..
to help Russia create an international coalition and pressure Turkey to stop its illegal war.

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/323252-turkey-isis-syria-russian-plane-su24/

Exposing Turkey and Saudis in the fight against Syria.. and the their undercover
support for ISIS.. this is what needs to be done..  Get international support..

Once Putin get 98% support of Russians and very strong support from Europe .
it will be impossible for Turkey to continue its war.. if Isolated in world opinion.. and
americans presure obama to declare sanctions against turkey..  Once its economy sink
big time and turkey start losing billions and investors and no tourism.. the turkey
population will turn against him.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/15/did-russias-intervention-derail-turkeys-plan-to-invade-syria/

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/201598#.VlRr0V7LIuc

Some random articles. I reckon Erdocunt wanted to invade Syria and was shitty because Russia has stopped him. He's also been rumbled ie found out as an ISIS creator. Finally, many Turks hate him - see the protests. And thats also a protest against Turkey - NATO alliance.

So he's turned into another Sucktievilli expecting NATO to dig him out and thereby cloud the issues.

KiloGolf wrote:

Firebird wrote:I agree. The Su was to attack ground positions of terrorist bums. It wasnt expecting to defend itself against SAM batteries and perhaps F-16s while striking ISIS. Otherwise itd have SU-35s alongside it. And Turdkey softened up by Tu160s.

I don't think WW3 will start if Russia takes on the home base of those F-16s. Article 5 is only brought up when there's "unprovoked attack".
I know it's a risk, but no different that bringing down a Russian jet that is not over your territory... Turkey carried out a provocation so this scenarion will be a "provoked attack".

The quicker Russia strike, the less it would look like an "unprovoked attack".
Turdkey is threatening the interests of the free world by attacking a UN backed anti terror operation.

Strike fast. Strike hard.

Firebird wrote:Strike fast. Strike hard.

I agree!

Hmm... this is a bit odd to me:

Russia May Use Electronic Jamming Systems to Protect Its Pilots in Syria

Russia will have to resort to electronic warfare in Syria to protect its pilots and prevent incidents similar to the downing of Russia’s Su-24 jet on Tuesday, according to Lieutenant-General Evgeny Buzhinsky; they will include both ground-based systems and equipment installed on special aircraft.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151124/1030665306/russia-syria-electronic-warfare.html#ixzz3sPvixYq1

So, to retaliate, we will start doing what we should have been doing all along? It makes me wonder if Russia calculated that an incident like this would provide a perfect reason to escalate its involvement in Syria.

Vann7 wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Judging from that video on which you can see the moment of impact, isn't it obvious that the plane was flying well over Syrian air space?

Plane got struck 4km inside Syrian AS. By any means the Turks wanted that plane down, they would have known that the plane would be hit IN Syria in every case, so basically this was murder. I think the pilot must have shat his pants when ordered to fire the SU down. And it was done BEFORE the plane would be out of Turkmen Killzone.

This also suggest that the Russian Electronic warfare is not as good as we believed.. at least
not in old planes.. and the so called bubble of 300km of area denial not working?

In any case best advice i can give to Putin is patience.. is what won World war 2..and what will
world war 3.. patience and dedication and commitment to achieve your objectives.

WTF does this have to do with EW? It's a passive missile that tailed an old tactical bomber with insufficient coverage, even IF the plane could have avoided the first AIM-120, the Turks say they had two (2) F-16's engage the SU. Wtf is this area of denial non-sense what in world do you guys drink, radiator coolant?
The SU was tracked from the ground, there was nothing really that could have been done, except provoke an escalation sending SU 30's shooting down F-16, then getting shot back and forth until VVP dropped the A-thingie and started a nuclear fireball in Anatolia. Turks got away with this, let's see what happens to the next Turkish shipment of crap from Turkey to Syria.

BKP wrote:Hmm... this is a bit odd to me:

Russia May Use Electronic Jamming Systems to Protect Its Pilots in Syria

Russia will have to resort to electronic warfare in Syria to protect its pilots and prevent incidents similar to the downing of Russia’s Su-24 jet on Tuesday, according to Lieutenant-General Evgeny Buzhinsky; they will include both ground-based systems and equipment installed on special aircraft.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151124/1030665306/russia-syria-electronic-warfare.html#ixzz3sPvixYq1

So, to retaliate, we will start doing what we should have been doing all along? It makes me wonder if Russia calculated that an incident like this would provide a perfect reason to escalate their involvement in Syria.

Putin did invite that maggot Erdocunt to the opening of the new huge mosque in Moscow.
Putin isnt dim, not by a long way. Some of us foresaw a possible Turdkey atrocity. And look at how Russia extended the mil support in Syria recently. Erdocunt and his like arent normal, they are powercrzed lunatics who should be boiled alive.

The initial reaction of the Finnish mainstream media seems that Russia is responsible for shooting down of it’s aircraft because of it’s “careless behavior” and on the other hand the media is sure that Russia will not retaliate in any kind and that everything will be solved through diplomacy.

So they seem sure that Russia will not do anything.

The reaction in the social media has been pretty disgusting with people mocking and making fun of the photo of the dead Russian pilot.

Karl Haushofer wrote:The initial reaction of the Finnish mainstream media seems that Russia is responsible for shooting down of it’s aircraft because of it’s “careless behavior” and on the other hand the media is sure that Russia will not retaliate in any kind and that everything will be solved through diplomacy.

So they seem sure that Russia will not do anything.

The reaction in the social media has been pretty disgusting with people mocking and making fun of the photo of the dead Russian pilot.

one word to them .. Le Bataclan

Russia also has the option of bombing Turkish installations in occupied Cyprus, which is not in NATO.

Federation council offers to stop flights to Turkey
http://ria.ru/politics/20151124/1327593844.html

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
Seems that Russians are content with selling hardwarre to India. They did not even ask for Indian assistance.

India´s best interest is to play for multipolar world as equal to other powers. with west it never achieves this status. there is also no need to complin about India or China. so far relations seem to be mutually beneficial.

flamming_python wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Plane got struck 4km inside Syrian AS. By any means the Turks wanted that plane down, they would have known that the plane would be hit IN Syria in every case, so basically this was murder. I think the pilot must have shat his pants when ordered to fire the SU down. And it was done BEFORE the plane would be out of Turkmen Killzone.

flamming_python wrote:The position the plane was when the missile impacted it - is not the same as the position that the plane was when the missile was launched against it. A fighter jet can cover several kilometres in that time.

This is pretty elementary stuff; but Putin made no mention of it - he mentioned only where the plane was when it was hit, and where it crashed.

Then this act reveals Turkish intentions. If we're aware of this then the Turks are too. For some reason they were dead set on taking it down.

That's right, they were.

And if they made warnings first, then that indicates that they wanted to send a message, a firm one.

Of course, our side was wrong in ignoring these warnings and not heeding more caution in their flight paths. A fighter escort also should have been assigned, as Turkey has made warnings about intercepting violations before.

So now they've sent their message, it's time to send ours.

You guys don't get this do you, there's no reason to fire to tactical bomber that strays for a short span, in high alt on your airspace while you've been following him, for about an hour bombing inside your neighbour where it has the permission to do so. The way the Turks did this (Let's assume the SU flies at 300m/s) and trying to get back to Bassel al Assad IAP, that means that you know he does not pose a threat to Turkey and that it's doing those strikes routinely, you so check out of that last pass, those 10 seconds to "justifiy" launching an AIM 120 20 km away from border knowing the plane even if you fire during that 10 second timeframe will be way out the Turkish AS and far out. So the launch would have to be done somewhere at the limit of the border if not when the SU was already in Syrian AS (20km+4= 24km/(900m/S)=25/30 seconds to impact). I'm sorry but this has all the hall marks of a premeditated murder. 25 seconds to trail = 22km, thus if AIM fired from T(Entry) until T1 (Exit) the missile should have travelled 15 seconds (13,5km) so it couldn't hit at 4 km (5 sec flight for the missile) inside the Syrian AS but probably at 8/9 km (9/10 second flight).

It simply doesn't add up as a reaction, the missile has been launched when the plane was still in Syrian territory, crossed, then it got nicked. This is simply an ambush.

Karl Haushofer wrote:The initial reaction of the Finnish mainstream media seems that Russia is responsible for shooting down of it’s aircraft because of it’s “careless behavior” and on the other hand the media is sure that Russia will not retaliate in any kind and that everything will be solved through diplomacy.

So they seem sure that Russia will not do anything.

The reaction in the social media has been pretty disgusting with people mocking and making fun of the photo of the dead Russian pilot.

Well, your average Finn doesn't like the Russian military. The end.

Are many/most people actually fun making of the pilot? I don't really follow Finnish social media, but I find that hard to believe. But in any case, welcome to the internet.

And I suggest you stop following HS, Iltasanomat and Iltalehti, they are very russophobic. Reading them just makes you angry. On the other hand, YLE is pretty good, I'd say it's quite neutral and objective (and undramatic).

"The dead pilot shown on video tried to fly his parachute into regime territory. Our fighters "shot him dead from a distance." - FSA Commander (unknown)

PKK Kurds.. to Russia
we regret for your pilot. Give us manpads and we will create a nice NFZ for Erdogan in S Turkey..

Militarov wrote:"The dead pilot shown on video tried to fly his parachute into regime territory. Our fighters "shot him dead from a distance." - FSA Commander (unknown)

This would be the moderate free syrian army right? The one that doesnt shoot unarmed opponents yeah?

Cnts

https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/669160478199955456

Video showing TOW attack on helicopter (on the ground). Allegedly that is helicopter previously mentioned in posts here. Ignore the guys profile, you will get cancer.

Militarov wrote:"The dead pilot shown on video tried to fly his parachute into regime territory. Our fighters "shot him dead from a distance." - FSA Commander (unknown)

I think this is actually a fair game since those pilots were their enemies.

However Turkey shooting down a Russian aircraft is an act of war and Russia must respond.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Militarov wrote:"The dead pilot shown on video tried to fly his parachute into regime territory. Our fighters "shot him dead from a distance." - FSA Commander (unknown)

I think this is actually a fair game since those pilots were their enemies.

However Turkey shooting down a Russian aircraft is an act of war and Russia must respond.

Attacking pilot or paratrooper in the air is aganist Geneva convention however. Its considered as a warcrime.