Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #5

It's obvious that erdocoward will try to hide behind Nato from the start but he overcalculated.
He pissed off too much natocrazies and Odumbo could care less about him, and will not cry if something bad happen to turkey , bar yankee forces there.

Like i said NOONE will defend turks this time they pissed too many guys and tried get away with it.

When it'll obvious that Nato wil not support them at all they'll start loosing shyt fast.
Where are Nato condemnation of russian agression now - nowhere interesting isn't it ?


BTW. This conversation between Hollande and Putin about Turkey will be really interesting

Don't underestimate NATO's support for Turkey though. They have no problem cuddling with Islamic dictators.

NATO shot down a Russian aircraft, they're not friends, partners, or close associates. Russia isn't going to get any support from them, including the french.

I think the best bet is to deploy S-300/400's and shut down Syria's airspace to everyone but the RuAF and the SAAF. The precedent for engagement has been established by NATO, let them deal with the consequences.

that recent bombing isis oil fields ,trucks ,...campaign ,everyone has ""accidentaly"" avoided so far, done by russian expeditionary bombers , has had a big impact...
not only trucks were destroyed- but now nobody thats still alive wants to drive that stuff trough syria..... the flow of oil ,weapons ,money has stopped completely.
many turkish citizens were pulverized, ofcourse turkey couldnt cry foul because they would admit it is working with isis and their citizens are working with knowledge from their government, so they wanted retaliation.
this was bound to happen , they got ok from usa ,and from a country-turkey that has violated airspace of so many countries so many times, greece, armenia, iraq ,syria...you name it....so no surprise there.

I get you people talking about NATO distancing itself from Turkey when NATO blatantly declared that they Stand with Turkey on this incident.,

Zivo wrote:Don't underestimate NATO's support for Turkey though. They have no problem cuddling with Islamic dictators.

NATO shot down a Russian aircraft, they're not friends, partners, or close associates. Russia isn't going to get any support from them, including the french.

Nato is adversary of Russia this is beyond obvious and Turkey is regional enemy.

But what i'm saying is that noone in NATO will defend Turkey militarly this time.
Nobody expects Nato will start bombing Ankara for christ's sake .
Russia dont need their support, it just needs them out of the picture for the time being.
They'll not start WWIII over some crazy third world dictator who thinks that he can outmarts everyone.


And BTW. France will be out of Nato soon when this joke of a pres will lose and LePen daughter win.


P.S.to Project Canada
They can talk whatever they want it actually would be really strange if they suddenly shut up, and when Russia will actually bite Turkey they'll talk even more, they love to talk so let them talk

Project Canada wrote:I get you people talking about NATO distancing itself from Turkey when NATO blatantly declared that they Stand with Turkey on this incident.,

Wait until tomorrow. This was Stoltenberg's prelim. I think NATO is about to get into cool down mode after this. And I think the Russians will say all it's forgiven quite rapidly. And the...fuck. The "Turkmen" commander, is actually a Turkish citizen and Grey Wolf member. So it is Turks that killed those Pilots. Holy fvck this this couldn't get more obvious.

sepheronx wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Regular wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:[R73Ms entered production in late 90s and have been procured for RuAF since early 2000s in what numbers is questionable but they did and do obtain them, R27EA/EP have been obtained too, R77 was obtained in all variants apparently including -1 version lately. So its not like they still only have stocks of 30 years old USSR built missiles...many of them are probably even near expiration of their storage time.

I have highlighted the bold part and I appreciate this answer.
Thanks mate.

PS. it is not uncommon to upgrade/rebuild missiles, ie fit new seekers on old stocks or add new propulsion (we do it in NATO e.g for AIM-9L or -P stock).

Russia had to as R-77 was made in Ukraine and so they needed a newer missile without the PUkrainian's.  That said, R-77-1 is Vympals (well, united missile corporations) rendition with newer technology.  Things like Link 16 and all of that isn't anything special either as Russia has had comm system links between other aircrafts and air defense systems/radar for years.  As example a pair of MiG-31's flying at distances of lets say 100km apart, and 1 sees something 300km away, the other mig-31 will be able to see it and attack it too from the link from the one mig-31.  Such technology has existed for years and many newer jets have it.  Recent example is apparently the Su-30SM that snuck up on the American F-16's and surprised them in Syria and then the F-16's turned around.  They didn't use their radar (Su-30SM) but relied on other radar systems to be able to track them.  At least that is the claims I have heard.

Even the latest Russian manpads Verba.. have networking shared radar technology
So Russia special forces can shoot at any plane without any visual distance of it , in fire and forget mode and the Ground Radars lead the missile to its target.. Verba manpads is like a
portable mini Tor defenses. and their guidance use triple radioelectronic guidance and optics.
nothing but revolutionary.  Probably thats how Novorosiya created a no fly zone in easter ukraine so easily.

But yes Russia have Inter networked radar technology.  The only problem with Russian airdefenses in Syria however is that half of the territory is occupied by terrorist.. so it cannot
create a bullet proof defense.. if depends only on long range defenses  and any airforce present to defend the airspace. and to make things worse RUssia only have one airport..so it cannot have a strong airforce to counter a major scale attack of NATO.. a bullet proof defense should have short range Pantsir ,spread in every place in Syria with mobile Buks and Tors defenses and with S-400s and with Antennas and Radars covering every part of Syria..and with Kret counter electronic jammers in every part of Syria to jam enemy signals..and AWACS support. and that backed by a strong big airforce..but such a network of defense is impossible to implement in Syria because most of its territory is occupied by terrorist.. So it have huge holes that can allow NATO or ISrael to penetrate defenses. In Crimea is a different story.. every corner is covered.. with something either EW or air defenses..and Huge ground Radars from Russia look at crimea airspace..

So to defend Syria airspace better.. Russia simply needs to capture more land ,a lot more ,
specially the borders of Turkey and Israel..to fully enclose the Syria airspace.. it will never be as powerful however as Russia can do in main land because Russia cannot deploy all its best technology there and allow NATO to capture its signals. For example Russia have no defense against ballistic nukes in Syria that comes from space. only in moscow.. and probably few other cities.  neither Turkey have such defenses. or anyone in Europe. unless it have Aegis ,Thaad .combo.

It is pretty easy how to handle turk slime balls.

Deploy at least two S-300, Panzir-S1 against incoming cruise missiles if they dare to retaliate along with TOR, BUK-M1 and all necessary things to prevent, avoid (dummies) and keep on salving. Russian jets should then start flying more often across turkish border provoke F-16's in the sky and as soon something starts start shooting S-300. Nothing NATO can do about it. No fly zone is the holy grail against NATO.

kvs wrote:

ult wrote:

Indeed, the F16 was loitering waiting for the chance to pounce.   No way was this anything innocent and baloney
about "Turkey defending its air space" is retard-spew.

Good catch.. was hunting and waiting Russia gets a little close to attack.
But Syrian airforce have been attacked even 30km deep inside Syria territory..
so is a limited war... and now they targeting Russia.

I'm pretty sure that as we speak, things are happening. If not tomorrow, we may see a response by the end of this week.

Russia works on responsive actions over warplane downing by Turkey

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-11/25/c_134851347.htm

KiloGolf wrote:I'm pretty sure that as we speak, things are happening. If not tomorrow, we may see a response by the end of this week.

Hitting oil, hitting Turkmens, hitting JAN. They don't even need to hit Turkey. That' will happen in due time.

Closing about this Stoltzenberg fool, did you guys notice how this guy looks , walks and talks on that video.

He looks teriffied, can't even walk straight and said from paper with trembling voice, probably on some drugs.

BTW. He said:  NATO ALLY Turkey , not MEMBER , typical freudian slip LOL

KoTeMoRe wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:I'm pretty sure that as we speak, things are happening. If not tomorrow, we may see a response by the end of this week.

Hitting oil, hitting Turkmens, hitting JAN. They don't even need to hit Turkey. That' will happen in due time.

The occupied Cyprus forces are fair game. These are conventional Turkish Armed Forces.
They have daily re-supply routes, weekly ships going in and out. That area is not part of NATO and is right next to the Russian air base.

Werewolf wrote:It is pretty easy how to handle turk slime balls.

Deploy at least two S-300, Panzir-S1 against incoming cruise missiles if they dare to retaliate along with TOR, BUK-M1 and all necessary things to prevent, avoid (dummies) and keep on salving. Russian jets should then start flying more often across turkish border provoke F-16's in the sky and as soon something starts start shooting S-300. Nothing NATO can do about it. No fly zone is the holy grail against NATO.

Russia needs to capture more territory and totally capture syrian-turkey border from the mediterranean to north aleppo at least and seal Turkey border to full seal north west of Syria from turkey. and then control all south of Syria to seal that airspace from Israel.
that is the real important place in the whole conflict.. Eastern Syria is mostly empty and have Iraq as border so Turkey cannot operate there.

so is not only about hardware but geographic location is as important. very big flat terrain is ideal for airdefenses to see all.. Mountanous zones not. planes can hide behind mountains and hug terrain in non flat territory. Aside Russia in so short time cannot implement a network of defense like the one they have in Russia. Big Ground radars and Awacs and ground electronic warfare in all borders is also important. and anti ballistics high altitude defenses like s-500 or the others to cover space attacks.

Zivo wrote:Russia works on responsive actions over warplane downing by Turkey

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-11/25/c_134851347.htm

Once RUssia close turkey border.. even if done 50km from Turkeyborder.. moving temporarily Syrian borders. All terrorist groups ill collapse its supply lines.. that will be BIG TROUBLE.
very huge problems for the terrorist logistics and in a month two or 3 they will lack of food
and ammunition and collapse..

So it will be on the interest of Russia to keep any confrontation with Turkey ,at the minimun
level possible for now. and only shot down a turkey plane if Russian pilot life at risk. So Turkey will try to provoke RUssia into a war.. only to justify a major interference of Russian airforce operation. and interrupt and stop the defeat of the terrorist.

i think it will be a good time for Russia to hire the 30,000 chechens volunteers kadyrov was offering to make them secure and close the turkey border.. as much i dont like their fanatism.. they can still be very useful. for RUssia.  or get volunteers in big numbers 30,000 from former soviet states if possible ,to help with capturing all northern latakia border and holding it..
that will allow Russia to deploy there Counter Electronic equipment next to turkey border
and Short range air defenses.. and radars looking deep inside turkey and any altitude.

Rate of posting is quite high on this thread(obviously).We were at page 27-28 before it all started.

KiloGolf wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:I'm pretty sure that as we speak, things are happening. If not tomorrow, we may see a response by the end of this week.

Hitting oil, hitting Turkmens, hitting JAN. They don't even need to hit Turkey. That' will happen in due time.

The occupied Cyprus forces are fair game. These are conventional Turkish Armed Forces.
They have daily re-supply routes, weekly ships going in and out. That area is not part of NATO and is right next to the Russian air base.

WW2 mines tend to get lost...

"We will make a request to the travel agencies to find out the number of Russian tourists in Turkey in order to be ready to implement any measures proposed by the Russian government," head of the agency Oleg Safonov was quoted by Tass.

A major tourist agency Natalie Tours, headquartered in Moscow, said in an online statement that it had cancelled booking tours to Turkey from all its offices in Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus from Tuesday due to "unstable political situation and measures taken by the Russian state to guarantee its citizens' security."

Russians are the second largest tourist group visiting Turkey, according to official data. Nearly 4.5 million Russians visited Turkey last year, accounting for 12 percent of all tourists there.

This is what Russia needs...^^

And if possible a world wide ban of traveling to turkey .. once Turkey economy suffer a deadly recession it will be easier to desintegrate the popularity of Erdogan. and pressure him to change
its illegal war in Syria and support for terrorist.

Turkey is pretty clearly Satan's right hand man in intl affairs.

http://ukrainianpolicy.com/turkey-warns-russia-it-will-blockade-bosphorus/

Fortrus also has an interesting article linking Turkey, the Bosphorus and the Ukraine.

Lada's Ray's https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com blog reckons Putin will play a long game with the 3 headed snake aka Terdogan, and will want to keep Turdkey stable for a while (Strange idea, but she's good on lots of stuff).

Maybe Russia needs to grab the bull by the horns. By that I mean secure the Bosphorus. Thats a big big exercise. But, its no good trying to placate a terrorist who isn't trusted by anyone in the World.

It wouldn't be hard to send Turdkey into utter, utter meltdown. Pretty soon people would be talking about which bit "belongs" to whom.

Possible concern for the Russians.

Interesting: Turkmen fighters showed off their Strela-2M (SA-7B) MANPADS, though it lacked 9B17 thermal battery.
https://twitter.com/ain92ru/status/669310645653938176

KiloGolf wrote:Possible concern for the Russians.

Interesting: Turkmen fighters showed off their Strela-2M (SA-7B) MANPADS, though it lacked 9B17 thermal battery.
https://twitter.com/ain92ru/status/669310645653938176

Actually this was worse. The Trail from the missile that hit the SU-24 on tape and the plane almost made it to SAA controlled territory. The Turks indeed shot it so it could fall in Turkmen territory.