Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #5

OminousSpudd wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

Regular wrote:I'm not really into aviation, but how does Russia compare to ECM and AA capability? Is R-77 comparable to AMRAMM?

The AIM-120C (C5 or C7) combined with what they Turks have (i.e. Link 16 on F-16C/D, ground and AEW&C Wedgetail) is better than anything Russians have operational. One generation ahead actually.

There is no AA-12 in broad RuAF service (if at all), they are stuck with old, possibly Ukrainian-made AA-10 which at best can be compared to AIM-7E/F.

I don't even...

KiloGolf wrote:[R73Ms entered production in late 90s and have been procured for RuAF since early 2000s in what numbers is questionable but they did and do obtain them, R27EA/EP have been obtained too, R77 was obtained in all variants apparently including -1 version lately. So its not like they still only have stocks of 30 years old USSR built missiles...many of them are probably even near expiration of their storage time.

zorobabel wrote:From October:

Revealed: Turkish helicopters violated Armenian airspace twice this week for 2-4 minutes. Excuse is "bad weather."

Wow, Turkey really pissing on Putin's face, murdering Russians for doing exactly what they did.

zorobabel wrote:From October:

Revealed: Turkish helicopters violated Armenian airspace twice this week for 2-4 minutes. Excuse is "bad weather." http://t.co/SZ6Dbbmn1E

Wow, Turkey really pissing on Putin's face, murdering Russians for doing exactly what they did.

ultron wrote:One of the pilots is alive? Any rescue attempt?

Zivo wrote:

ultron wrote:One of the pilots is alive? Any rescue attempt?

Both pilots are deceased.

The story about Turkey working to rescue the pilots is Turkish propaganda.

Kadmos45 wrote:It doesn't matter what USSR did or didn't back in the 70's or 80's, we've got late november 2015,situation is different now and Russia response will be what Putin commands good or bad.

Whether the response wil be weak or strong, it will have nothing to do with ancient geopolitical situation.

sepheronx wrote:Russia had to as R-77 was made in Ukraine and so they needed a newer missile without the PUkrainian's.  That said, R-77-1 is Vympals (well, united missile corporations) rendition with newer technology.  Things like Link 16 and all of that isn't anything special either as Russia has had comm system links between other aircrafts and air defense systems/radar for years.  As example a pair of MiG-31's flying at distances of lets say 100km apart, and 1 sees something 300km away, the other mig-31 will be able to see it and attack it too from the link from the one mig-31.  Such technology has existed for years and many newer jets have it.  Recent example is apparently the Su-30SM that snuck up on the American F-16's and surprised them in Syria and then the F-16's turned around.  They didn't use their radar (Su-30SM) but relied on other radar systems to be able to track them.  At least that is the claims I have heard.

KiloGolf wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Russia had to as R-77 was made in Ukraine and so they needed a newer missile without the PUkrainian's.  That said, R-77-1 is Vympals (well, united missile corporations) rendition with newer technology.  Things like Link 16 and all of that isn't anything special either as Russia has had comm system links between other aircrafts and air defense systems/radar for years.  As example a pair of MiG-31's flying at distances of lets say 100km apart, and 1 sees something 300km away, the other mig-31 will be able to see it and attack it too from the link from the one mig-31.  Such technology has existed for years and many newer jets have it.  Recent example is apparently the Su-30SM that snuck up on the American F-16's and surprised them in Syria and then the F-16's turned around.  They didn't use their radar (Su-30SM) but relied on other radar systems to be able to track them.  At least that is the claims I have heard.

From my old readings I am aware back in the day, PVO aircraft had their own datalink, long before we got crazy about it in NATO. In this case, in Syria, I feel it is imperative for Russia to deploy a full squadron of <whatever modern> and at least 3 A-50s, few tankers too, so as to have one airbone at all times. It would also help greatly to have their carrier around, right now the Su-33 seems to be badly needed.

If this turkish crime goes unanswered I predict they will escalate with something else, in few months.

KiloGolf wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Russia had to as R-77 was made in Ukraine and so they needed a newer missile without the PUkrainian's.  That said, R-77-1 is Vympals (well, united missile corporations) rendition with newer technology.  Things like Link 16 and all of that isn't anything special either as Russia has had comm system links between other aircrafts and air defense systems/radar for years.  As example a pair of MiG-31's flying at distances of lets say 100km apart, and 1 sees something 300km away, the other mig-31 will be able to see it and attack it too from the link from the one mig-31.  Such technology has existed for years and many newer jets have it.  Recent example is apparently the Su-30SM that snuck up on the American F-16's and surprised them in Syria and then the F-16's turned around.  They didn't use their radar (Su-30SM) but relied on other radar systems to be able to track them.  At least that is the claims I have heard.

From my old readings I am aware back in the day, PVO aircraft had their own datalink, long before we got crazy about it in NATO. In this case, in Syria, I feel it is imperative for Russia to deploy a full squadron of <whatever modern> and at least 3 A-50s, few tankers too, so as to have one airbone at all times. It would also help greatly to have their carrier around, right now its Su-33 seems to be badly needed, compared to the MiG-29K.

If this turkish crime goes unanswered I predict they will escalate with something else, in few months.

BigBiz of other place wrote:
Info from some sources.
Turkey didn't provide solid evidences of border violation at NATO's board meeting. Audio records have 2 warnings, not 10 as was firstly reported by Turkey.
Some NATO members consider that the plane was shoot down over Syria.
Jens Stoltenberg's announcement about the incident was his personal view, not coordinated with other members.
http://lenta.ru/news/2015/11/24/nato2/

Zivo wrote:Turkey's statement to the UN. It'll piss you off.

Kadmos45 wrote:It doesn't matter what USSR did or didn't back in the 70's or 80's, we've got late november 2015,situation is different now and Russia response will be what Putin commands good or bad.

Whether the response wil be weak or strong, it will have nothing to do with ancient geopolitical situation.

zorobabel wrote:A perfect outcome for me:

SAA control of all of western Syria. The expulsion of all Turkmen from nothern Latakia. The establishment of a Kurdish autonomous region stretching from Afrin to the Iraq border in the east ruled by the PYD (PKK friendly). Clandestine support the PKK. The establishment of permanent Russian bases throughout northern Syria within several kilometers of the Turkish border.