Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #5

What happened to the plane's radar warning receiver? The RWR should have warned the pilots of enemy radar tracking.

ultron wrote:What happened to the plane's radar warning receiver? The RWR should have warned the pilots of enemy radar tracking.

If it was an AMRAAM they have an initial passive stage... With no backup ground radar the Su-24 probably had about 10 seconds from launch to impact to react. The F-16s were close, and he was showing them his tail, even in an Su-30SM you'd be hard pressed to react in time.

ultron wrote:What happened to the plane's radar warning receiver? The RWR should have warned the pilots of enemy radar tracking.

Not if they got an AMRAAM on their way.
That thing is lethal when fired and doesn't require initial radar lock.

The long range air defense radar at the air base should have tracked the F-16 well before it got close to the Su-24. Why didn't the long range radar warn?

I've been reading reports all day, and just noticed I haven't seen a single one mention that according to Turkey, the SU-24 was only in their airspace for 17 seconds.

ultron wrote:What happened to the plane's radar warning receiver? The RWR should have warned the pilots of enemy radar tracking.

Radio silence, of course, and no radars.

For days, I've been having bad feelings about Russian planes flying close to the Turkish border. Turkey is a sponsor of terrorism. If Russia lets Turkey gets away with it, another plane will be shot down, and another and so on.

OminousSpudd wrote:

Stealthflanker wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Seems Turkish/NATO fans atm are making coorinated efford on social networks to mock Russian civilian grade navigation equipment and create public opnion that "Russians sux and they got lost".

"No wonder Russia's Su-24 got 'lost' in Turkey, check out the Walmart-Grade GPS system in their attack jets:"

"2nd pic of a Russian Su-24 fighter jet using consumer grade Garmin GPS"

And so on and on, there are thousands and thousands of tweets and FB posts like this, naturally source is our beloved Foxtrotalpha; http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-russian-attack-jets-use-walmart-grade-gps-systems-1703048443

So what's that commercial grade GPS doing there ?

i believe (gonna check) later Su-24 got its own moving map display or inertial navigation.. plus they're in touch with towers.  That GPS however might serve as a "comparison check"

--
I have my own hypothesis though regarding this, related to maneuvering limitations (Su-24 is not really an agile fighter though) basically the Su-24 can't manuver quick enough to avoid Turkish airspace... so it crossed.

The Turkish fighter in other hand.. doing the CAP patrol, warned the Russian fighter not to enter. The Russians know this warning but simply unable to pull the G's.

Their mission must be very close to the border.

Now i wonder..where's the Su-30SM's.

What I said above, yes, Su-24M has in-built GLONASS and GPS functionality. But it is completely a pilot's prerogative to install some third-party hardware. You take a hit and have electronic failure? No problem, you have a backup, and it's not just a map. Maybe he simply got stick of glancing down half the time.

You guys are acting like every Su-24 pilot crew does this. Not so:

Project Canada wrote:I wish by tomorrow when I wake up Russia had already launched a crushing response to Terror Turkey

Same here, but unfortunately the chances of seeing part of Turkey flattened with Turkish blood spilled is low. The area where all this happened got hit hard by the VVS afterwards so hopefully a good number of those Turks and Turkmen suffered very excruciating deaths. I hope a gruesome fate follows for any Turk in Syria now.

OminousSpudd wrote:

ultron wrote:What happened to the plane's radar warning receiver? The RWR should have warned the pilots of enemy radar tracking.

If it was an AMRAAM they have an initial passive stage... With no backup ground radar the Su-24 probably had about 10 seconds from launch to impact to react. The F-16s were close, and he was showing them his tail, even in an Su-30SM you'd be hard pressed to react in time.

This is why Russia needs Awacs fully covering the actions on the side of Turkey border.
So it can warn Russian pilots of a missile launch.. but if there was ideal terrain and counter electronics present.. the missile could have been jammed. and the plane locked as a warning
as soon get close to Syrian border .

ultron wrote:The long range air defense radar at the air base should have tracked the F-16 well before it got close to the Su-24. Why didn't the long range radar warn?

Of course it did... You can see it for yourself in the MoD's radar data release. But so what? F-16s on supposed routine patrol just like any other freaking day. It was cold blooded murder, it's like walking down a street and having a guy pull a gun and blow three holes in you at 2 meters. Good luck surviving that, Rambo.

Why don't Russia simply use Smerch to blast rebel positions from city? With a range of 90 km, Smerch can cover the entire Latakia province. No Russian serviceman would have ever gotten hurt. I'm not a big fan of Putin's no ground forces policy. Ground forces is safer if they use artillery.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Militarov wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:Possible concern for the Russians.

Interesting: Turkmen fighters showed off their Strela-2M (SA-7B) MANPADS, though it lacked 9B17 thermal battery.
https://twitter.com/ain92ru/status/669310645653938176

Various groups in Syria have them for years now. This one tho might be of Croatian origin (ex Yugoslavian stockpile).

Didn't we talked about this like a month ago...

PapaD: I think Turkish AF in Syrian Airspace might call it self Christmas Tree.

Maybe idk, did we O.o?

OminousSpudd wrote:

ultron wrote:The long range air defense radar at the air base should have tracked the F-16 well before it got close to the Su-24. Why didn't the long range radar warn?

Of course it did... You can see it for yourself in the MoD's radar data release. But so what? F-16s on supposed routine patrol just like any other freaking day. It was cold blooded murder, it's like walking down a street and having a guy pull a gun and blow three holes in you at 2 meters. Good luck surviving that, Rambo.

yes it was an attack that could have caught any plane off guard.. because it was
without warning.. Russia many times was just 5 km distance of american planes.
Any mig plane even from world war 2 could have scored a shut down of an F-22
if the plane pilot is not aware of the hostile intentions of the other operator..and is very close.
and stab in the back. While he is unaware will be attacked.

Why don't Russia simply use Smerch to blast rebel positions from city? With a range of 90 km, Smerch can cover the entire Latakia province. No Russian serviceman would have ever gotten hurt. I'm not a big fan of Putin's no ground forces policy. Ground forces is safer if they use artillery.

Because they are not precise enough.. the terrorist in northen latakia are in mountains with
lots of foliage that hide them.. very hard to fight there. Pilots needs to fly low to indentify
the terrorist positions and bomb..  What they can do now.. is burn the whole place ,mountains and all hills in Syria side with special flamable substances .. and cook alive the terrorist.
that will also get rid of the foliage so no cover..

and Syrian army have smerch.. there are videos posted recently used in some places that makes sense.

Good one Zivo

KiloGolf wrote:If true that's a big FU to the perpetrators of this trap

via @AlMayadeenNews The 2nd #Russian Pilot was rescued by #SAA after a special operation behind enemy lines
https://twitter.com/Ibra_Joudeh/status/669322820665610241

Although I was under the impression both pilots were shown on tape dead..

You beat me to it ....according to that report, the 2nd pilot is alive, they wouldn't 'rescue' a corpse....lets see if it gets confirmed.

#SAA Airborne forces found the 2nd pilot and escorted him for 2 hours before being transported to Khmeimim Air Base
https://twitter.com/Ibra_Joudeh/status/669325303869784064

Turkey's allies are leaving it out in the cold. The German vice-chancellor said that he stands with Russia and here is what one of the US generals just said: http://m.ria.ru/world/20151125/1327873974.html

Turkey's allies are leaving it out in the cold. The German vice-chancellor said that he stands with Russia and here is what one of the US generals just said

Nice of him, but it seems he's a retired general....they've got more leaway on what they can say publicly

Vann7 wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

ultron wrote:The long range air defense radar at the air base should have tracked the F-16 well before it got close to the Su-24. Why didn't the long range radar warn?

Of course it did... You can see it for yourself in the MoD's radar data release. But so what? F-16s on supposed routine patrol just like any other freaking day. It was cold blooded murder, it's like walking down a street and having a guy pull a gun and blow three holes in you at 2 meters. Good luck surviving that, Rambo.

yes it was an attack that could have caught any plane off guard.. because it was
without warning.. Russia many times was just 5 km distance of american planes.
Any mig plane even from world war 2 could have scored a shut down of an F-22
if the plane pilot is not aware of the hostile intentions of the other operator..and is very close.
and stab in the back. While he is unaware will be attacked.

Hopefully they learned a lesson on being more careful and providing fighter escorts to strike aircraft.

I think they'll definately need extra fighters and extra air defence would be desirable....the Moskva cruiser has been tasked to provide LR aircover, but that wouldn't be enough if a larger scale battle were to start


Moskva cruiser S-300 coverage

http://uploads.ru/5KycU.jpg

Cyberspec wrote:Good one Zivo

KiloGolf wrote:If true that's a big FU to the perpetrators of this trap

via @AlMayadeenNews The 2nd #Russian Pilot was rescued by #SAA after a special operation behind enemy lines
https://twitter.com/Ibra_Joudeh/status/669322820665610241

Although I was under the impression both pilots were shown on tape dead..

You beat me to it ....according to that report, the 2nd pilot is alive, they wouldn't 'rescue' a corpse....lets see if it gets confirmed.

#SAA Airborne forces found the 2nd pilot and escorted him for 2 hours before being transported to Khmeimim Air Base
https://twitter.com/Ibra_Joudeh/status/669325303869784064

really good news for Russians morale.. there is help "from above" that people use
to call it luck..

and this should be a lesson for the people blaming the Syrian army "incompetence"
and its special forces.. they have done things behind enemy lines.. that are worth of a movie..
like the rescue of 3 journalist taken prisoners by the supposed "moderate FSA" . there was a group of no less than 200 jihadist transporting the kidnapped journalist to another zone..
and 50 special forces of the Syrian army..deep inside enemy lines, rescue her from them alive and without any harm.. and wiping all 200 terrorist. Is that is not impressive..the nothing it is.. Syrian special forces train in Russia with Russian special forces.. same training..

and they have LOTS and LOTS of successful reports of entering a village controlled by terrorist.. killing one leader.. and leaving without being killed.

For what its worth, i dont think the turks will do shit now for a long while, they know they have fucked up big time and the russians are ready to unload a whole world of hurt on them, unless of course they have the 'backing' of the USA, then we may see more fun and games.

The USA may well pretend to throw turkey to the wolves simply to tempt russia into escalating the conflict, and thus turning it into a full blown proxy war against russia but using turkey rather than ukraine like it originally tried to. Thats why russia shouldnt allow itself to be drawn in too far, it must act and think rationally and be very careful to not let the americans turn this to their advantage.

You just know some idiots like mccain will be spunking on their tv sets right now and dreaming about afghanistan number two for russia and getting rid of assad at the same time. Futile dreams i know, but those nutjobs dont think rationally.

Put a bullet in Erdogan's head. Problem solved. We don't want a neo Ottomanist in Ankara.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:Turkey's allies are leaving it out in the cold. The German vice-chancellor said that he stands with Russia and here is what one of the US generals just said: http://m.ria.ru/world/20151125/1327873974.html

Europe can stop for real the war in Syria and Ukraine too. Europe is the world major economy
and if European Union united they become the real Super super super power of the world..
IF most of Europe developed countries United.. it can force Obama ,and its government to stop.
they can do it.. they have all the tools in the world to do it.. it will be painful to split from americans.. economy wise.. but you bet they will retreat in Syria if see their allies abandoning them.. and joining Russia.  Is better to experience a major economy collapse for opposing United States..policies than to allow US and Turkey to continue with their games suporting ISIS and alqaeda to destroy entire nations.. and start a world war 3. The refugee crisis consequences of Americans policies, should be  warning to European nations of how their own destruction will happen if they continue following US policies..

An alliance between Most Europe ,including france and Germany and Russia to fight ISIS.. rejecting US alliance.. will truly end the terrorism in the world..
World Opinion is really powerful and combined with constructive actions.. and it can stop wars and change the future.. Once the americans see themselves Isolated They will retreat
and really make peace with RUssia and Syria.

and turkey will stand not a chance isolated from the world.
it will be impossible for Erdogan to survive in turkey on his position if the European Union
fully expose turkey support to ISIS in public and warn with major economic isolation if they do not stop its illegal war against Syria and stop supporting terrorism. Not even internet will work in turkey if they isolated from the world. it will be like North Korea.

With the Moskva cruiser headed towards the coast of Syria, you know what this means right guys? It's time to bring Debaltsevo to Northern Cyprus and southern Turkey!

magnumcromagnon wrote:With the Moskva cruiser headed towards the coast of Syria, you know what this means right guys? It's time to bring Debaltsevo to Northern Cyprus and southern Turkey!

yes i hope russia will liverate northern Cyprus so as all Greek-dominated Cyprus to be united with Greece

Very good refreshing report and summary of the Syrian conflict and US and its gulf allies
negative role in the conflict since 2011. and where is the world today ..

Turkey’s actions show desperation and despair of regime change camp

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/323353-regime-change-camp-desperation/

Occupied regions of Latakia (specifically Turkmen and Akrad mountains) are getting hit hard right now. Hopefully some Turkish wives and kids will be left without husbands and fathers.

LINK:
https://twitter.com/amiralabbas/status/669388160476905472
https://twitter.com/ivansidorenko1/status/669388012980187136

And the other Su-24 pilot is safe after a six hour op behind enemy lines conducted by SAA and apparently Russian Spetsnaz.

LINK:
https://twitter.com/dimsmirnov175/status/669353842329427968