Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #5

flamming_python wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:As i said, i doubt russia will purposefully target them.

Who do you think they're targetting? This shit could be about to get way out of hand.

I'm not worried about Erdogan's reaction, I'm worried for the permenant rift it will cause to Turkish-Russian relations on a people level; if we start killing each others citizens, no matter under which circumstances.
At the moment, there is still every chance to recover and condemn the people who ordered the aircraft shot down for the backstabbers/murderers that they are.

FP, man come on, Turkish led Tow team ambushes Russian Mil Mi 8 and you tell me that? The Turkish AF says they don't know that they were aiming at a Russian pair of bombers? I mean COME ON, why are you trying to give them the benefit of doubt?

Please man, it's not even a "shot in the dark" case, since they admit covering the SU's for at least 5 minutes, they thus heard the pilots speaking prior contact oh and the bombing run was within 5 miles of the Turkish border, so they also knew that the SU's were done bombing.

Rodinazombie wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:As i said, i doubt russia will purposefully target them.

Who do you think they're targetting? This shit could be about to get way out of hand.

I'm not worried about Erdogan's reaction, I'm worried for the permenant rift it will cause to Turkish-Russian relations on a people level; if we start killing each others citizens, no matter under which circumstances.
At the moment, there is still every chance to recover and condemn the people who ordered the aircraft shot down for the backstabbers/murderers that they are.

They are not purposefully targeting turkish troops.  If they are amongst the so called rebels when they get hit, thats their problem.

Now you seem to be changing tack and talking about killing turkish civilians, thats a whole different ball game. On that not i agree russia has to be very careful, the last  thing it needs is to give erdogan and the west a propaganda coup by bombing a bus full of turkish civilians or something like that.

Turkish civilians cooperating with rebels or terrorists (pick your poison) are liable to getting blown to bits. The same Russian civilians engaged with the Novorossians were blown to bits by you know who.

Now, are we living in real world or are we in la la land. It's called consequences.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:As i said, i doubt russia will purposefully target them.

Who do you think they're targetting? This shit could be about to get way out of hand.

I'm not worried about Erdogan's reaction, I'm worried for the permenant rift it will cause to Turkish-Russian relations on a people level; if we start killing each others citizens, no matter under which circumstances.
At the moment, there is still every chance to recover and condemn the people who ordered the aircraft shot down for the backstabbers/murderers that they are.

They are not purposefully targeting turkish troops.  If they are amongst the so called rebels when they get hit, thats their problem.

Now you seem to be changing tack and talking about killing turkish civilians, thats a whole different ball game. On that not i agree russia has to be very careful, the last  thing it needs is to give erdogan and the west a propaganda coup by bombing a bus full of turkish civilians or something like that.

Turkish civilians cooperating with rebels or terrorists (pick your poison) are liable to getting blown to bits. The same Russian civilians engaged with the Novorossians were blown to bits by you know who.

Now, are we living in real world or are we in la la land. It's called consequences.

Im talking about real civilians here, that arent assisting the war effort. Russia should be csreful not to target them by mistake.

But 'civilians' that are helping terrorists and their ilk are fair game. Like the people driving oil trucks for isis for instance.

flamming_python wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:As i said, i doubt russia will purposefully target them.

Who do you think they're targetting? This shit could be about to get way out of hand.

I'm not worried about Erdogan's reaction, I'm worried for the permenant rift it will cause to Turkish-Russian relations on a people level; if we start killing each others citizens, no matter under which circumstances.
At the moment, there is still every chance to recover and condemn the people who ordered the aircraft shot down for the backstabbers/murderers that they are.

It seems that Turkish MSM have been ordered to play the tune of "evul Russian planes bombing and oppressing poor and innocent Turkoman civilians" for a while now. This is obviously a clear case of psy-ops that Turkey is conducting, and this is one of the main reason why Turkish people are not too friendly to the Russians. The other psy-ops is constant harping on about "illegal" Russian violations of Turkish airspace being an act of war and so on. This is clearly a last ditch attempt to prevent Russians flying along Syria-Turkey border and to set up a no-fly zone there. We all know that the Russian aircraft are there not to bomb civilians but armed islamist groups and their positions (nobody would waste ammo on killing civilians while not achieving any tactical military goals).

One of the best methods for improving the image of Russia in Turkey and to halt the widening of any rifts between the people would be for Turkey to stop the concerted psy-ops campaigns I have mentioned above within their MSM (same thing could also be applied to Ukraine, as you are probably well aware). But such actions would not be advantageous to sultan Erdogan, so we are left with what we have.

zg18 wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:Anyone think erdogan will have the balls to do anything now he knows he is on his own and russia has its finger on the trigger?

Part of me thinks not, but this clown may just be stupid enough to try something out of desperation. Ukraine will have been a picnic compared to what could happen here.

Putin is having him on his sights and is showing him he is ready for showdown. Erdogan perhaps read the situation wrongly and underestimated Russia`s resolve in Syria.

New T-90A image in Aleppo

Just a few questions -

The T90A is in service with the Morskaya Pekhota OR with the SAA ??

The T90 has the Shtora installed. Is it effective against TOW systems ?? or other SACLOS systems in general ?? I always thought it was for the F&F weapons.

Militarov wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:Gents, couple of quick questions.

1) someone said that russia has officially announced that they have part of an artillery brigade in syria, i dont recall this being announced or shown, can we track down the link to it and find any real evidence of it existing?

2) do we have any footage of the t-90s being used yet, or just a few photos that surfaced a few days ago?

Cheers all.

Militarov wrote:"Saakashvili: 'Always feel great respect for Turkey, and today this respect was further strengthened."

"З великою повагою завжди ставився до Туреччини , а сьогодні це ще більше зміцнилося. Всегда с большим уважением... "

And shared this photo

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12308439_1073983669298680_5151807258730856280_n.jpg?oh=5c19a8ca1ac9b72b13a7aaa0c659ef95&oe=56AF2423

Source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1073983669298680

I hope he too will answer for his crimes oneday.

"A still from a televised Russian military briefing on 17 November 2015 shows a close-up of a map of the military situation around the Syrian towns of Sadad and Mahin (Mheen). It shows four Mi-24 and one Mi-8 helicopters at Al-Shayrat Air Base and the 5th unit (presumably battery) of the 120th ABR (presumably artillery brigade) located at a Syrian army base to the south. Source: Russia Today"



"A still from televised television footage broadcast on 11 November 2015 shows three Msta-B towed howitzers deployed in Syria, purportedly on the Tadmur front. (Federal Agency News). Although some SAA units affiliated with the 18th Armoured Division were also marked on the map in a smaller typeface, the artillery unit is almost certainly Russian. Syria is not known to have a 120th brigade, while the Russian Army's 120st Artillery Brigade is based at Yurga and known to be equipped with Msta-B guns. Msta-Bs were first spotted in Syria in September when Russia was building up its military presence in Syria, but it was unclear if the guns were operated by Russian personnel or had been donated to the SAA."



And this is confirmed photo from month ago. But if you refered to MSTA-S that some people mentioned its just rumons and 97% false info at least at this point.

When its about T90, nothing for now only few photos we already shared, seems tho that T72Bs have seen some combat.

Is it possible for a Mod to move this into the Russian help for Syria thread? It is very interesting and it definitely is really OT here.

Franco posted this last night in the Su-24 shot down thread. Important enough to be here methinks

Reported Russian Land Forces In Syria

The land forces committed to Russia’s Syrian operation include:
• A battalion tactical group of the 810th Marines Brigade (Sevastopol) which consists of the 542nd Marines Assault Battalion and the brigade’s command and control elements – approximately 580 men
• 162nd Separate Reconnaissance Battalion of the 7th Guards Air Assault Division (Novorossiysk) – approximately 320 men
• Reconnaissance battalion of the 74th Guards Motor Rifle Brigade (Yurga, Siberia) – approximately 440 men
• A battalion tactical group of the 27th Guards Motor Rifle Brigade (Moscow) consisting of two motor-rifle companies reinforced by one tank company – approximately 300 men
• One Spetsnaz battalion probably of the 3rd Spetsnaz Brigade (Tolyatti, Saratov Province); it is possible that this battalion originates from the 22nd Guards Spetsnaz Brigade (Rostov-upon-Don) – 230 men
• A sniper team of the ‘Senezh’ Brigade, SOF Command (Solnechnogorsk, Moscow Province) – unidentified number of men
• Six 2A65 Msta-B towed howitzers from the howitzer battery of the 8th Artillery Regiment (Simferopol, Crimea) – seventy men
• Eighteen 2A65 Msta-B howitzers from the howitzer battalion of the 120th Artillery Brigade (Kemerovo, Siberia) – 270 men
• Four 9A52 Smerch vehicles forming two MLRS batteries which might originate from the 439th Guards Rocket Artillery Brigade (Znamensk, Astrakhan Province) – 50–60 men
• Six TOS-1A Solntsepek heavy flamethrower vehicles from one heavy flamethrower company of the 20th NRBC regiment (Nizhniy Novgorod) – thirty men
• An electronic-warfare (EW) company with six R-330B UHF jamming stations, three R-378B HF jamming stations and six 1L29 SPR-2 Rtut-B radio-proximity-fuse jamming/initiation stations, most probably from the 64th Motor Rifle Brigade (Khabarovsk) – approximately sixty men
• A long-range jamming (EW) company most likely of the 17th EW Brigade (Nizhneudinsk, Irkutsk Province) with one set (two vehicles) of 1RL257 Krasukha-4 aviation fire-control radar-jamming stations – approximately twenty men.
The overall size of the Russian force’s land component in Syria appears to be approximately 2,400 men. There are signs that Russian artillery assets are already involved on an ad hoc basis in providing fire support for the Syrian army 4th Assault Corps’ operations near Aleppo and there are some reports of Russian artillery fire near Homs and Hama.

"First pics of S-400 in Syria." by tv Zvezda.





http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201511261535-m6hb.htm

Akula971 wrote:

zg18 wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:Anyone think erdogan will have the balls to do anything now he knows he is on his own and russia has its finger on the trigger?

Part of me thinks not, but this clown may just be stupid enough to try something out of desperation. Ukraine will have been a picnic compared to what could happen here.

Putin is having him on his sights and is showing him he is ready for showdown. Erdogan perhaps read the situation wrongly and underestimated Russia`s resolve in Syria.

New T-90A image in Aleppo

Just a few questions -

The T90A is in service with the Morskaya Pekhota OR with the SAA ??

The T90 has the Shtora installed. Is it effective against TOW systems ?? or other SACLOS systems in general ?? I always thought it was for the F&F weapons.

"Shtora-1 passive protection system is electro-optical jammer that disrupts semiautomatic command to line of sight (SACLOS) antitank guided missiles, laser rangefinders and target designators of various kinds. The system protects the tank against guided missiles, using both the semi-active command to line of sight (SACLOS) guidance, by an IR source that mimics the flare on the back of missiles, as well as laser beam riders and laser-homing weapons. It should be effective against missiles such as the TOW, HOT, AT-4, AT-5 and Sagger (Malyutka). The Russian system also has some capability to counter laser-guided munitions and ATGMs (Such as Hellfire, Kornet etc). The jammer, which is designated the TShU1-7, introduces a spurious signal into the guidance circuitry of the incoming ATGW through the use of coded pulsed infra-red jamming signals continuously generated. It is claimed to be effective against Western ATGWs such as the TOW, HOT, MILAN and Dragon as well as Eastern ATGWs such as the AT-3 'Sagger'.

Sources: http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3009.html and http://defense-update.com/products/s/shtora-1.htm

When its about who operates them we do not know, but i assume its the Russians.

Russia just canceled "Turkish stream", Nuclear Power Plant project currently U/C under review.

zg18 wrote:Russia just canceled "Turkish stream", Nuclear Power Plant project currently U/C under review.

Link?

And I see that some people are saying that it's S-300. But we can't tell that based on the picture of the launcher.

Yes, it's 5П85СЕ2, but it's used for both S-300PMU-2 and S-400 as we can see here.



http://ivan-59.livejournal.com/467448.html

Notoriously the units in the far east have been spotted using the MAZ chassis instead of BAZ, like in Kamchatka, as it was rumored that BAZ had some problems with the rate of production and they couldn't keep up.

wilhelm wrote:Link?

http://sputniknews.com/world/20151126/1030796887/turkish-stream-russia.html?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FdNP1KpYiGH&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=ah7A&utm_campaign=URL_shortening

Also , Russo-Turkish investement fond has halted it`s activities, possible ban of charter flights between two countries.

zg18 wrote:

wilhelm wrote:Link?

http://sputniknews.com/world/20151126/1030796887/turkish-stream-russia.html?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FdNP1KpYiGH&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=ah7A&utm_campaign=URL_shortening

Also , Russo-Turkish investement fond has halted it`s activities, possible ban of charter flights between two countries.

Thanks.

Moar T90A shots.

ult wrote:"First pics of S-400 in Syria." by tv Zvezda.





http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201511261535-m6hb.htm

Whoa, link doesn't work anymore, I was looking at Zvezda's twitter feed and It just dissapeared

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:What if it really was carrying aid and humanitarian workers?

Yeah because Russia never supplied any genuine humanitarian aid to the rebel-controlled areas of the Donbass - don't you know; it were always concealed missiles and tanks

flamming_python wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:What if it really was carrying aid and humanitarian workers?

Yeah because Russia never supplied any genuine humanitarian aid to the rebel-controlled areas of the Donbass - don't you know; it were always concealed missiles and tanks

Russia has announced its humanitarian aid which was inspected by OSCE, turks have not and have supplied terrorists and traded with oil with terrorists such things russia has never done and they did not supply weapons to terrorists that are terrorising a different country but citizens of its own country that are protecting themselfs against nazis of the west. So don't play here a bullshit you try to pin here down. There are no parallels at all.

Russian MFA has recommended citizens of RF to leave Turkey

http://tass.ru/politika/2476009

flamming_python wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:What if it really was carrying aid and humanitarian workers?

Yeah because Russia never supplied any genuine humanitarian aid to the rebel-controlled areas of the Donbass - don't you know; it were always concealed missiles and tanks

If the Turks are so concerned that legitimate humanitarian aid is being targeted, they can invite an international monitoring mission (which includes Russian and Syria) to operate on the Syria-Turkey border in order to inspect all trucks. That would also help to stop smuggling of artifacts, weapons, fighters, and oil by terrorist groups operating in Syria. Sounds fair?

Werewolf wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:What if it really was carrying aid and humanitarian workers?

Yeah because Russia never supplied any genuine humanitarian aid to the rebel-controlled areas of the Donbass - don't you know; it were always concealed missiles and tanks

Russia has announced its humanitarian aid which was inspected by OSCE, turks have not and have supplied terrorists and traded with oil with terrorists such things russia has never done and they did not supply weapons to terrorists that are terrorising a different country but citizens of its own country that are protecting themselfs against nazis of the west. So don't play here a bullshit you try to pin here down. There are no parallels at all.

That's not the point.

Yes the situations are different but there are parallels here too, and my point was that supplying humanitarian aid or supplies to civilians could well be what's going on too, aside from everything else.

I agree with the inspections and so on. It's just that just because they weren't done, it doesn't automatically incriminate everyone there as terrorists. Russia is reacting badly and this could completely poison relations far more than just 2 dead Russian servicemen.

flamming_python wrote:
That's not the point.

Yes the situations are different but there are parallels here too, and my point was that supplying humanitarian aid or supplies to civilians could well be what's going on too, aside from everything else.

I agree with the inspections and so on. It's just that just because they weren't done, it doesn't automatically incriminate everyone there as terrorists. Russia is reacting badly and this could completely poison relations far more than just 2 dead Russian servicemen.

Frankly russia does not have to give a shit about relationship between turkey and russia. It is a bad relationship anyway not to mention the defacto islamist government under erdogan sympathizing and right out and openly advocating to everyone ISIS is reality and everyone should accept it as an established and inevitable state.

There is no chance to avoid such events without established monitoring of things either they aggree on monitoring or they are subject to be targeted especially when using well known terrorist routes.

I concluded I understand Erdogan less and less.

He's literally surrounded by enemies from all sides - Greece, Russia, Armenia, Syria, Iraq and Kurds inside and outside of Turkey, Ataturkists. He has moderately good (but not cordial) relations with Israel and Georgia

Does he really think he can become an omnipotent Sultan? In a week the Syrian Express may start delivering stuff to Rojava, if Mr. Putin decides to.

6 Turkish owned cargo ships seized by Russia

https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/669896486625353728

Erdogan didn`t think properly about shooting down Russian warplane, Putin is taunting him for a fight and openly mocking him