Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #9

KoTeMoRe wrote:...

This is do or die. If the news are real and the VKS has cremated a battalion worth of beardies, the pinch on the guys on the ground is going to be felt overtime.
Yes the attack was "advertised" but once again, you don't have control on the ground, you rely on different people to fight and spot and give intel. It's do or die.

Well online chatter in last couple of hours has been positive, hopefully lines held. I just hope I didn't jinx it.

crod wrote:

There should have been ... support helis at the ready...

You and so many others ,with a logical thinking ,could write thousands of sentences about
Russia operations in Syria ,starting with the  .. THere should have been this and that..

and this happens because of the enormous level of incompetence that exist in Russia
leadership ,that seems to not have their heads in the place it should be , and are taking
so many decisions without thinking on the consequences and potential risks.

After all you heard Putin claiming ,
Russia achieved its goals already in Syria..  



So the incompetence of Russia leadership killed their serviceman.

Any sane person ,with a clue of what they doing in the Syrian war.. will have ...

1)NEVER SEND a WOMEN into the FRONT LINE ,that could face major
risk to be captured dead or alive.  Why not? Because if the women is captured
it could send as a major propaganda for the terrorist to humiliate Russia , ISIS
or Alqaeda could have been raped the women day and night while filming it on cameras
and upload it online just to destroy Russia image in the world ,that have a weak
army that cannot even defend their womens servicemen from Alqaeda and ISIS.
They even were using their real photos Id's , so they can be identified and later american media
harass their families.    

2)Never will have send a chopper alone ,in the Syrian war to do any mission without any backup
plan in case people need to be rescue , or their chopper totally destroyed with crew inside once
it crash.. To not allow the bodies of the Russian soldiers and the women translator to be captured by turning all into dust. Also to protect the electronic warfare the hellicopter possibly
had ,from being taken by the terrorist and sent back to Americans to reverse engineer it.

3) I will have used instead a cargo plane to deliver humanitarian aid and NOT a very slow chopper.   A cargo plane will have allowed at very least the chance of the crew some of them
to jump the plane with parachutes , and it could have allowed the Russian crew to crash the plane away of the terrorist zones gliding..  THis is what is called Calculated risk.

When you do things Right. You always takes into account the possible consequences
of any action and have a plan B or Plan C or plane D ,in case things does not happen the way
you expected. This is called Common Sense.

But what the Russian Government lead by Mr PUTIN qualify more are pure IDIOCY.
Because of the way that Mi-8 was shutdown , being completely Alone , with a female inside
and their bodies allowed to be captured ,and humiliated. it shows the Russian Government
and Russia army have no fucking clue of what they were doing , when they were sending
that humanitarian chopper to the front line to a very risky place.  

So what next now to do? The general who gave the order to send a women to the dangerous
mission and with a chopper without escort ,should be fired from the army ,and Putin at the same time step down.. if he had any dignity left. Because it should have been His Government
responsibility to fully warn , their military general,of how important is not only to win the war..
but to do it , in a very honorable way.  And the Mi-8 shut down with their bodies captured ,
and no single Russian Airforce anywhere near to destroy the chopper or rescue the bodies or at least destroy everything , is anything but honorable. It only sends a signal to the world ,that the
Russian airforce is not as strong they claim and can be defeated and humiliated even by Alqaeda fighters with american supplied cheap weapons.  

Russia needs to create more or less safe corridors for its airforce to fly , so that if in case
their planes or chopper shutdown ,they can fall in zones that Syrian army controls or very near
so that is easy to capture. and always it needs to have planes dedicated only to escort other planes or choppers and to rescue survivors or totally finish downed planes and the dead bodies of the crew. This is to not allow the terrorist to have a field day world wide  with Russian serviceman dead bodies propaganda.

I still think Russia will win the war , and have achieved a lot of things make no mistake.
But is unnaceptable that they fail so much in very simple procedures , that should
always be done.. that is have a Plan B , or Plan C in case something goes wrong ,to minimize
the damage. this is not rocket science.. this is something that should be normal reasoning
in any Russian Government leadership or military.

PapaDragon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:...

This is do or die. If the news are real and the VKS has cremated a battalion worth of beardies, the pinch on the guys on the ground is going to be felt overtime.
Yes the attack was "advertised" but once again, you don't have control on the ground, you rely on different people to fight and spot and give intel. It's do or die.

Well online chatter in last couple of hours has been positive, hopefully lines held. I just hope I didn't jinx it.

yeap. lets hope they can consolidate what they have now and prepare for further advances.

Vann7 wrote:

crod wrote:

There should have been ... support helis at the ready...

You and so many others ,with a logical thinking ,could write thousands of sentences about
Russia operations in Syria ,starting with the  .. THere should have been this and that..

and this happens because of the enormous level of incompetence that exist in Russia
leadership ,that seems to not have their heads in the place it should be , and are taking
so many decisions without thinking on the consequences and potential risks.

After all you heard Putin claiming ,
Russia achieved its goals already in Syria..  



So the incompetence of Russia leadership killed their serviceman.

Any sane person ,with a clue of what they doing in the Syrian war.. will have ...

1)NEVER SEND a WOMEN into the FRONT LINE ,that could face major
risk to be captured dead or alive.  Why not? Because if the women is captured
it could send as a major propaganda for the terrorist to humiliate Russia , ISIS
or Alqaeda could have been raped the women day and night while filming it on cameras
and upload it online just to destroy Russia image in the world ,that have a weak
army that cannot even defend their womens servicemen from Alqaeda and ISIS.
They even were using their real photos Id's , so they can be identified and later american media
harass their families.    

2)Never will have send a chopper alone ,in the Syrian war to do any mission without any backup
plan in case people need to be rescue , or their chopper totally destroyed with crew inside once
it crash.. To not allow the bodies of the Russian soldiers and the women translator to be captured by turning all into dust. Also to protect the electronic warfare the hellicopter possibly
had ,from being taken by the terrorist and sent back to Americans to reverse engineer it.

3) I will have used instead a cargo plane to deliver humanitarian aid and NOT a very slow chopper.   A cargo plane will have allowed at very least the chance of the crew some of them
to jump the plane with parachutes , and it could have allowed the Russian crew to crash the plane away of the terrorist zones gliding..  THis is what is called Calculated risk.

When you do things Right. You always takes into account the possible consequences
of any action and have a plan B or Plan C or plane D ,in case things does not happen the way
you expected. This is called Common Sense.

But what the Russian Government lead by Mr PUTIN qualify more are pure IDIOCY.
Because of the way that Mi-8 was shutdown , being completely Alone , with a female inside
and their bodies allowed to be captured ,and humiliated. it shows the Russian Government
and Russia army have no fucking clue of what they were doing , when they were sending
that humanitarian chopper to the front line to a very risky place.  

So what next now to do? The general who gave the order to send a women to the dangerous
mission and with a chopper without escort ,should be fired from the army ,and Putin at the same time step down.. if he had any dignity left. Because it should have been His Government
responsibility to fully warn , their military general,of how important is not only to win the war..
but to do it , in a very honorable way.  And the Mi-8 shut down with their bodies captured ,
and no single Russian Airforce anywhere near to destroy the chopper or rescue the bodies or at least destroy everything , is anything but honorable. It only sends a signal to the world ,that the
Russian airforce is not as strong they claim and can be defeated and humiliated even by Alqaeda fighters with american supplied cheap weapons.  

Russia needs to create more or less safe corridors for its airforce to fly , so that if in case
their planes or chopper shutdown ,they can fall in zones that Syrian army controls or very near
so that is easy to capture. and always it needs to have planes dedicated only to escort other planes or choppers and to rescue survivors or totally finish downed planes and the dead bodies of the crew. This is to not allow the terrorist to have a field day world wide  with Russian serviceman dead bodies propaganda.

I still think Russia will win the war , and have achieved a lot of things make no mistake.
But is unnaceptable that they fail so much in very simple  procedures , that should
always be done.. that is have a Plan B , or Plan C in case something goes wrong ,to minimize
the damage. this is not rocket science.. this is something that should be normal reasoning
in any Russian Government leadership or military.

Ok idiot.

1. don't ever make assumptions about casualties before knowing stuff exactly. There was no woman on that helicopter according to Ru. MO. The pictures we saw were from a placeholder driving license card on new wallets. I can also point out that the Pilot had bought a Rels wallet.

2. Pick your stance or pick your meds. It's full fledged civil war with a very unforgiving tendency to flare up no matter the circumstances. There can also be errors made by the guys who're fighting. It's not some kind of drill, things that go wrong have a tendency to really go wrong.

Seems divine retribution is ongoing. We live near Belbek and last evening and night was quite noisy. Been the same off and on all day this day.

auslander wrote:Seems divine retribution is ongoing. We live near Belbek and last evening and night was quite noisy. Been the same off and on all day this day.

They're hitting the lines in front of the theatre. Kafr Halab and Idlib are being indiscriminately bombed. It's a real mess. And the IS has SVBIEDed the fuck out of JaF operating base. Over 30 killed including commanders.

IMO it's about time Russia deploy ground forces to fight jihadists. ASVK can knock dead a jihadist from more than a km away. Back that up with Zoopark 1M counter battery radars, Msta-S, Smerch to target and destroy any rebel artillery. Kornet can knock dead jihadist tanks from more than 8 km away.

Bad people in Aleppo city shot down an Orlan 10 drone.

https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1/status/760470974273875969

auslander wrote:Seems divine retribution is ongoing. We live near Belbek and last evening and night was quite noisy. Been the same off and on all day this day.

Belbek? Are Backfire bombers stationed there by any chance?

KoTeMoRe wrote:
They're hitting the lines in front of the theatre. Kafr Halab and Idlib are being indiscriminately bombed. It's a real mess. And the IS has SVBIEDed the fuck out of JaF operating base. Over 30 killed including commanders.

That would be Jaish all Fatah right? I do love tango on tango stuff in such auspicious times.

Don't know if Backfires are here or in Simferopol, and that's if they are in Krimu. No one has positively said locally. Still busy, though, and it's 18:00 local time.

PapaDragon wrote:

auslander wrote:Seems divine retribution is ongoing. We live near Belbek and last evening and night was quite noisy. Been the same off and on all day this day.

Belbek? Are Backfire bombers stationed there by any chance?

KoTeMoRe wrote:
They're hitting the lines in front of the theatre. Kafr Halab and Idlib are being indiscriminately bombed. It's a real mess. And the IS has SVBIEDed the fuck out of JaF operating base. Over 30 killed including commanders.

That would be Jaish all Fatah right? I do love tango on tango stuff in such auspicious times.

Yes, Idlib is getting hot for Beard on Beard encounters.

About time to give jihadists a surprise. Tu-22M3s operating from Latakia. Now that would be something

not good news. On the other hand i can only hope the SAA etc can hold out because if they do the terrorists will have lost a shit load of fighters. Then the SAA etc can crack on with taking Aleppo before turning towards other areas.

jihadists advance in Aleppo amid bid to lift siege

In Ramouseh district, several Army troops were reported dead when the hardline militants in Sukkari district detonated a tunnel under a building used as a barrack.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/field-report-jihadists-aleppo-advance-amid-bid-lift-siege-map-update/

The problem is that the Jihadist dogs can play as dirty as they could to score points, civilian deaths caused by their actions wont discredit them cause American MSM will turn a blind eye anyway, but God forbid SAA killing Terrorists posing as civilians cause MSM will Bitch about it for weeks!! Please just once I want the whole area under Jihadist pigs leveled to the ground with every single Terrorist cockroach dead

d_taddei2 wrote:
In Ramouseh district, several Army troops were reported dead when the hardline militants in Sukkari district detonated a tunnel under a building used as a barrack.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/field-report-jihadists-aleppo-advance-amid-bid-lift-siege-map-update/

Rebels offensive on Ramouseh was successfully repelled. The rebels is reported to suffer heavy casualties.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-rolls-back-jihadist-gains-southern-aleppo/

Do you have something like the cancerous political correctness in favor of US politics or something?

The link you gave says JIHADI, you are calling them rebels. There are no rebels in syria there are only terrorists and mercenaries and these things go hand in hand in ME. They only attack there for what the master pays. They always claim to to israel, never attack Israel, they say they want to bring sharia law in all ME why not attack Mecca and seize the capital to send a message?

Please people stop this madness with political correctness and pure propaganda.

There are no mercenaries in Syria because mercenaries, by definition, have no ideology. If they have an ideology they believe in, they are not mercenaries even if they receive regular payments for fighting.

Would Jihadi fighters switch sides and start fighting alongside Shias and Christians against other Sunnis if Assad gave them more money? They wouldn't. A true mercenary wouldn't even think for a second.

sepheronx wrote:The Russians knew the risks. They are fighting a conflict that is difficult all around, with very incompetent ally and enemies with lots of weapons.  Yet, in the entirety of this conflict, they lost few (21 now?) and as much as it is sad, they knew that casualties will happen and always do. Happened for US, France, Canada, etc everywhere.  Sad but realities of a war.  If it was just planes, doubt any would face issue besides the Su-24 incident.  But when helicopters and guys on the ground appear, then it is bound to happen.

Yes, unfortunately, you are right. Most of the human loses are from helicopters in military campaigns like this.

And this is still a war, where the islamic side has very low level of antiaircraft weapons (because their allies fear to give them the guns to avoid loses in their own aircrafts).

But still helicopters are fragile. This is why I talk about a review of the entire concept of helicopter.

There is a way to avoid these casualties in helicopters in the future, and it is to make the helicopters unmanned, avoiding also, of course, the transport of people in contested areas, except maybe for wounded soldiers. Russia (and surely the rest of the countries) will go for it, for their next generation of helicopters. Today makes not sense to begin a new project of helicopter that tries not to be unmanned. The first unmanned helicopters should come around 2030.

Out of this, Russia has been following a very good strategy with the use of aircrafts. They are using the right tactics and the best type of aircrafts to avoid casualties today in these circumstances.

eehnie wrote:

sepheronx wrote:The Russians knew the risks. They are fighting a conflict that is difficult all around, with very incompetent ally and enemies with lots of weapons.  Yet, in the entirety of this conflict, they lost few (21 now?) and as much as it is sad, they knew that casualties will happen and always do. Happened for US, France, Canada, etc everywhere.  Sad but realities of a war.  If it was just planes, doubt any would face issue besides the Su-24 incident.  But when helicopters and guys on the ground appear, then it is bound to happen.

Yes, unfortunately, you are right. Most of the human loses are from helicopters in military campaigns like this.

And this is still a war, where the islamic side has very low level of antiaircraft weapons (because their allies fear to give them the guns to avoid loses in their own aircrafts).

But still helicopters are fragile. This is why I talk about a review of the entire concept of helicopter.

There is a way to avoid these casualties in helicopters in the future, and it is to make the helicopters unmanned, avoiding also, of course, the transport of people in contested areas, except maybe for wounded soldiers. Russia (and surely the rest of the countries) will go for it, for their next generation of helicopters. Today makes not sense to begin a new project of helicopter that tries not to be unmanned. The first unmanned helicopters should come around 2030.

Out of this, Russia has been following a very good strategy with the use of aircrafts. They are using the right tactics and the best type of aircrafts to avoid casualties today in these circumstances.

Overexposure in such a campaign is alas unavoidable. They just can't get the right manpower.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

auslander wrote:Seems divine retribution is ongoing. We live near Belbek and last evening and night was quite noisy. Been the same off and on all day this day.

They're hitting the lines in front of the theatre. Kafr Halab and Idlib are being indiscriminately bombed. It's a real mess. And the IS has SVBIEDed the fuck out of JaF operating base. Over 30 killed including commanders.

So after Kafr Halab, they're bombing Kafr Naha and Al Atarib.

VKS still in the house...



Video: https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1/status/760779862424576001

RBK and secondary deton. And fuel burning. BBQ time...

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:There are no mercenaries in Syria because mercenaries, by definition, have no ideology. If they have an ideology they believe in, they are not mercenaries even if they receive regular payments for fighting.

Would Jihadi fighters switch sides and start fighting alongside Shias and Christians against other Sunnis if Assad gave them more money? They wouldn't. A true mercenary wouldn't even think for a second.

Retard the only definition of mercanary is they work for money that does not make them impartial to politics or ideologies. They are paid huge amount of money, that is the definition of mercanairy. They constantly switch the terrorist groups from Al-CIAda, FSA, ISIS and all the other founded, paid and organized terror groups who belong to Israel, USA, Turkey, Qatar and Saudis. They are the financers.

Indication that reserves are on the move...



Hit less than 30 minutes ago around al Hatarib...

Russian Foreign Ministry Rules Out Offensive on Syria's Aleppo

Russia's deputy foreign minister ruled out any plans Moscow's offensive on the Syrian city of Aleppo and underscored that Russia's goal in the region was confined to conducting a humanitarian operation only.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Russia has no intentions of launching an offensive on Syria's Aleppo and is carrying out a purely humanitarian operation, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said Wednesday.

"There are no plans of an offensive in Aleppo neither by Syrian forces, nor through airstrikes by the Russian Aerospace Forces," Ryabkov told reporters. "Absolutely false and harmful interpretations of our actions are voiced by certain circles in Washington."

Wtf is this?? Is Russia saying okay we will stop bombing Terrorists and let them take over SAA controlled areas in Aleppo to please America?

https://www.facebook.com/syrian.reporters/videos/1130052390373666/

Guess who?

Project Canada wrote:

Russian Foreign Ministry Rules Out Offensive on Syria's Aleppo

Russia's deputy foreign minister ruled out any plans Moscow's offensive on the Syrian city of Aleppo and underscored that Russia's goal in the region was confined to conducting a humanitarian operation only.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Russia has no intentions of launching an offensive on Syria's Aleppo and is carrying out a purely humanitarian operation, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said Wednesday.

"There are no plans of an offensive in Aleppo neither by Syrian forces, nor through airstrikes by the Russian Aerospace Forces," Ryabkov told reporters. "Absolutely false and harmful interpretations of our actions are voiced by certain circles in Washington."

Wtf is this?? Is Russia saying okay we will stop bombing Terrorists and let them take over SAA controlled areas in Aleppo to please America?

More like no Russian boots on the ground, just letting the SyAA get on with it, starving them out of Aleppo as it would cost to many lives to take the city street by street. Plus boots in the air, lots of humanitarian boots and a few advisors.

The longer it goes on the more terrorists will die trying to save their buddies inside as desperate messages come over the airways. Good time of year for a seige, lots of water needed!

Good plan.