Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

sepheronx wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

sepheronx wrote:...............

I am not saying Kurds, but Turks, US and their terrorist buddies Al-Sham and FSA will start moving west.

....................

Seph, Turks did not do anything here on their own. They were allowed to do it by Russia. And Turks know it. They will be busy with Kurds up there for a long time.

Anyone goes west he is fried. Al-Sham and FSA can and do try it all the time. So far no joy. And there will be none. That is Russian real estate now.

Just wait and see. Notice how US took Ukraine easily? And that is native Russian lands. Russian pilot dies, Russian authorities state they will never forget or forgive Turkey over this, and then they did. After a simple apology.  At that point, the Russian people should have had mass demonstrations against Putin for being such a fucking bitch, but nope.  No, Turkey didn't get Russian approval. They don't need to. Russia rolls over. Medvedev was more of a man than Putin was. He at least fought US mercs and Georgians.

Notice how the US took Ukraine easily?
Er... No? Russia for all intents and purposes has come out on top, NATO has a banana republic to manipulate, Russia has the Donbass, which keeps the junta's hands tied. Russia also has Crimea, with complete authority over it as a federal subject. Navy, air, land now form a bastion in the Black Sea that Russia could not utilize to its fullest extent when it was under Ukraine, not to mention production structure.

Putin for being such a fucking bitch Which is why the US is absolutely pissing themselves? Russia has outmaneuvered them in every situation AND avoided the war that they so desperately crave. Lets see: Europe's fucked economically, and it's suicidal to boot, I give it a maximum of ten years before it descends into anarchy/civil war/fractures, so goodbye NATO, for what that pathetic alliance is worth. The US has nothing but a giant military attempting to prop up it's failing petro-dollar, and is acting more and more irrational as time goes on. They're 80's USSR on fricken steroids right now, except not willing to back out, and with a massive Achilles heel. They are also running out of options with their bloated military, as most potential consumable target nations have buffed their militaries considerably since Desert Storm, and attacking them will only unveil just how much of a paper tiger the US is (heavy losses, both equipment and actual casualties, as well as pin-popping their prima-dona: "Air Superiority"). Russia is rapidly outpacing them in the technological department, while not over spending on procurement, simply because the US MIC is corrupt beyond repair.

Motherland doesn't even have to do anything at this point. Time is well and truly on our side, literally grab popcorn and watch as the US plays its last few cards ineffectively, namely being hybrid warfare and sanctions, and then implodes melodramatically.

Russia fucked up because they didn't deal with Turkey after Su-24 being shot down. They talked tough but were far too quick to forgive. No money, no arrest and such for the people responsible. Nothing. But they forgave them after two of their own were murdered.

Except Turkey lost how many personnel to magical unicorn MANPADS and ATGMs? I know, I know, we can only speculate they were from Russia, but that's the whole idea. Add some sanctions to the mix, and suddenly Duh-dogan realizes how insecure his little Ottoman Empire is.

Medvedev was more of a man than Putin was. He at least fought US mercs and Georgians.

While simultaneously favoring economic and military deals with Western nations, deals that had repercussions right up to this day.  

Look, I want more than anyone else for Russia to flex a bit of muscle and give the US a smack in the face it won't soon forget, and I know that time will come, but for now it's a matter of playing the waiting game. There is no point in acting hurriedly or irrationally if time is on your side, just let the US stew and stew, and when the time is right you'll have some nice tasty American soup.

You make a good argument but at the time Medvedev made economic deals, it was being pushed by everyone else anyway so he just takes the blame.  But at least he showed enough strength for NATO to start second guessing themselves.

On the rest, you make a fair point.  But a lot of it is "time will tell" and I just have the fear that Turkey and US will use this as pretext to invade fully and take Assad out.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Maybe US and Turkey though are using this as a pretext to target Assad.  Saudi Arabia has jets in Turkey ready to be used as well (F-15's).  So I imagine that they will be targeting Assad.  Now if that happens, what will Russia do?  They got S-400's and bunch of advanced jets, yet they will not use them it seems.

If they wont defend SAA, then at least they should be supplying more advanced weapons to SAA to help fight off the invaders.  IEL MiG-29's, Su-27's and more air defense systems.  Maybe even help build up mini IADS around pockets to protect SyAF and installations.  They must be ready at all costs.

It is the possibilities here and the other groups are very sure in getting rid of Assad.  When that happens, it will be an Anti-Russian country and Russia will lose more bases and influence.

Y Yeah let's give more weapons to a military group that needs a total overhaul on its core. Let's not actually try and deal this differently than the SAA tried before.

I understand the SAA is generally incompetent but they still have an air force that could use some newer aircraft to help secure their borders a bit better and give them a possible edge over potential enemy (Turkey and US). The IADS is wishful thinking but still an idea.  The US cannot be trusted, not even 1% of trust. So it is ideal to prepare for the worst.  Those MiG-23's and older MiG-29's are just not going to cut it.  Give an inch, the US and Turks will take a mile.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

KoTeMoRe you bastard, you kept me lying awake in bed for a good half-hour trying to relate Shrodinger's cat to Russia. I'm still not 100% clear on what you mean.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

KoTeMoRe you bastard, you kept me lying awake in bed for a good half-hour trying to relate Shrodinger's cat to Russia. I'm still not 100% clear on what you mean.

It's easy really; In this forum there's so much schizophrenia about Russia, that it is like Schrodinger's cat. Weak and powerful. Stupid and cunning. Defeated yet winning. one thing and its opposite in the same time.  
Basically this conflict has to be seen in the trends that are impacted.

The Trend is this. By May 2015, the US administration was saying that there was no more future for Assad and militarily is was bleak. Here we are 15 months later and Assad is having a laugh at the US, Turkey AND the Kurds. Meanwhile the US has gone from train and equip folks to send its factions to fight each other. This would be another Afghanistan...we're like decades away from Afghanistan. Decades.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

KoTeMoRe you bastard, you kept me lying awake in bed for a good half-hour trying to relate Shrodinger's cat to Russia. I'm still not 100% clear on what you mean.

It's easy really; In this forum there's so much schizophrenia about Russia, that it is like Schrodinger's cat. Weak and powerful. Stupid and cunning. Defeated yet winning. one thing and its opposite in the same time.  
Basically this conflict has to be seen in the trends that are impacted.

The Trend is this. By May 2015, the US administration was saying that there was no more future for Assad and militarily is was bleak. Here we are 15 months later and Assad is having a laugh at the US, Turkey AND the Kurds. Meanwhile the US has gone from train and equip folks to send its factions to fight each other. This would be another Afghanistan...we're like decades away from Afghanistan. Decades.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

KoTeMoRe you bastard, you kept me lying awake in bed for a good half-hour trying to relate Shrodinger's cat to Russia. I'm still not 100% clear on what you mean.

It's easy really; In this forum there's so much schizophrenia about Russia, that it is like Schrodinger's cat. Weak and powerful. Stupid and cunning. Defeated yet winning. one thing and its opposite in the same time.  
Basically this conflict has to be seen in the trends that are impacted.

The Trend is this. By May 2015, the US administration was saying that there was no more future for Assad and militarily is was bleak. Here we are 15 months later and Assad is having a laugh at the US, Turkey AND the Kurds. Meanwhile the US has gone from train and equip folks to send its factions to fight each other. This would be another Afghanistan...we're like decades away from Afghanistan. Decades.

On Wednesday morning, Turkey abruptly launched an all-out military assault on Syria, sending in tanks, troops, and engaging in airstrikes, in concert with airstrikes from the United States, to the northern portions of Syria near the Turkey-Syria border under the guise of combating ISIS forces. At this time, the military operations seem focused around Jarablus.

According to the BBC, “A dozen Turkish tanks and other vehicles have rolled across the Syrian border after heavy shelling of an area held by so-called Islamic State (IS). Military sources told Turkish media 70 targets in the Jarablus area had been destroyed by artillery and rocket strikes, and 12 by air strikes.”

For those who may be wondering exactly what the Turkish goal might be, two points must be mentioned in regards to Turkey’s actions which should go some length to demonstrate that the Turks are still focused on destroying the Syrian government as well as preventing the establishment of a Kurdish enclave either in Syria orTurkey.

First, the Turkish military is acting as the frontal assault for “moderate” rebel forces like the FSA who are marching in directly behind the Turkish military to hold territory conquered by the Turks. Any association with the Free Syrian Army, a gaggle of Western-backed extremistsindistinguishable from ISIS, should be a major warning sign to any informed observer that the goal is not to aid in the destruction of terrorist forces in Syria or to assist the Syrian government in its goal to do so. Second, the Turkish invasion was accompanied by American airstrikes which clearly indicates that the Turks are operating closely with the United States, which has been chomping at the bit to either directly destroy the Syrian government via military invasion or to create “buffer zones” and “safe zones” in the country to act as forward operating bases for future terrorist proxy operations.

For its part, the Syrian government has condemned the Turkish invasion. As ABC News reports,

Syria’s government has denounced Turkish military incursion, describing it as Turkey’s “blatant violation” of Syrian sovereignty.

In a statement reported by state-run news agency SANA on Wednesday, the government says that “any move to combat terrorism on Syrian territories should have been coordinated with the Syrian government and army.”

The statement also calls for an immediate end to the Turkish “aggression,” which it says is being carried out under the pretext of fighting terrorism.

It says: “Fighting terrorism cannot be undertaken by ousting Daesh and replacing it with other terrorist organizations directly backed by Turkey.” Daesh is the Arabic language acronym for IS.

The YPG has likewise condemned the Turkish involvement in Syria, labeling it a “blatant aggression in Syrian internal affairs.”

Turkey’s move raises even more questions now regarding the nature of its recent “failed” coup as well as its relationship with Russia and the United States. A troubling new dimension has also been added to the Syrian crisis as the Turks have now officially invaded a sovereign country in an already volatile region. Undoubtedly, we will be watching these events closely.

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

KoTeMoRe you bastard, you kept me lying awake in bed for a good half-hour trying to relate Shrodinger's cat to Russia. I'm still not 100% clear on what you mean.

It's easy really; In this forum there's so much schizophrenia about Russia, that it is like Schrodinger's cat. Weak and powerful. Stupid and cunning. Defeated yet winning. one thing and its opposite in the same time.  
Basically this conflict has to be seen in the trends that are impacted.

The Trend is this. By May 2015, the US administration was saying that there was no more future for Assad and militarily is was bleak. Here we are 15 months later and Assad is having a laugh at the US, Turkey AND the Kurds. Meanwhile the US has gone from train and equip folks to send its factions to fight each other. This would be another Afghanistan...we're like decades away from Afghanistan. Decades.

But are you not concerned that this will drag Russia down with it?  I mean, Turkey and US are flooding terrorists into Syria, especially after this move, and then if one thinks they stop in the north, they are only fooling themselves.  These terrorists will end up in Aleppo and Latakia.  Then what will happen if they attack Russian base outright? Will Russia bomb them? What if they are being supported by US and Turkey airforce in the attack (meaning that they are not bombing Russians but supplying protection to the terrorists attacking the Russians)?  Essentially, what my concern is, US and Turkey will use this as a pretext to get rid of Assad, and then Russia is forced out of Syria altogether.  And what will be end result? Wasted money and death of 21+ service men of Russia for nothing.  No accomplishment or anything.

I think you guys are not seeing what this move for what it really was.  What makes this different than before, is that Turkey and US are now providing actual military support to the terrorists.  They even threatened to shoot down Russian and Syrian planes too.  So if they are willing to go that far, then they are willing to go far enough to strike Russians indirectly in Syria.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

KoTeMoRe you bastard, you kept me lying awake in bed for a good half-hour trying to relate Shrodinger's cat to Russia. I'm still not 100% clear on what you mean.

It's easy really; In this forum there's so much schizophrenia about Russia, that it is like Schrodinger's cat. Weak and powerful. Stupid and cunning. Defeated yet winning. one thing and its opposite in the same time.  
Basically this conflict has to be seen in the trends that are impacted.

The Trend is this. By May 2015, the US administration was saying that there was no more future for Assad and militarily is was bleak. Here we are 15 months later and Assad is having a laugh at the US, Turkey AND the Kurds. Meanwhile the US has gone from train and equip folks to send its factions to fight each other. This would be another Afghanistan...we're like decades away from Afghanistan. Decades.

But are you not concerned that this will drag Russia down with it?  I mean, Turkey and US are flooding terrorists into Syria, especially after this move, and then if one thinks they stop in the north, they are only fooling themselves.  These terrorists will end up in Aleppo and Latakia.  Then what will happen if they attack Russian base outright? Will Russia bomb them? What if they are being supported by US and Turkey airforce in the attack (meaning that they are not bombing Russians but supplying protection to the terrorists attacking the Russians)?  Essentially, what my concern is, US and Turkey will use this as a pretext to get rid of Assad, and then Russia is forced out of Syria altogether.  And what will be end result? Wasted money and death of 21+ service men of Russia for nothing.  No accomplishment or anything.

I think you guys are not seeing what this move for what it really was.  What makes this different than before, is that Turkey and US are now providing actual military support to the terrorists.  They even threatened to shoot down Russian and Syrian planes too.  So if they are willing to go that far, then they are willing to go far enough to strike Russians indirectly in Syria.

If these terrorists were to flood Aleppo and Latakia, they would have done it by now. And they tried. For about 4 years they tried. Let me explain you something, attacking Russian bases needs such a capability from these guys that it is simply not possible or feasible as it is now. Supported by Turkish airforce to attack where? There's a NFZ and I have yet to see Turkish jets crossing the border, given there was no fight for Jarabulus.

They are also using direct cover for one of their parties against ANOTHER one of their parties. It's very simple, this trend will have two consequences. Kurds going rogue the moment the Turks push too hard and the US having to sort them out...do you see where in this a couple of crates are going to be missing from SAA/Russian inventory...

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

KoTeMoRe you bastard, you kept me lying awake in bed for a good half-hour trying to relate Shrodinger's cat to Russia. I'm still not 100% clear on what you mean.

It's easy really; In this forum there's so much schizophrenia about Russia, that it is like Schrodinger's cat. Weak and powerful. Stupid and cunning. Defeated yet winning. one thing and its opposite in the same time.  
Basically this conflict has to be seen in the trends that are impacted.

The Trend is this. By May 2015, the US administration was saying that there was no more future for Assad and militarily is was bleak. Here we are 15 months later and Assad is having a laugh at the US, Turkey AND the Kurds. Meanwhile the US has gone from train and equip folks to send its factions to fight each other. This would be another Afghanistan...we're like decades away from Afghanistan. Decades.

But are you not concerned that this will drag Russia down with it?  I mean, Turkey and US are flooding terrorists into Syria, especially after this move, and then if one thinks they stop in the north, they are only fooling themselves.  These terrorists will end up in Aleppo and Latakia.  Then what will happen if they attack Russian base outright? Will Russia bomb them? What if they are being supported by US and Turkey airforce in the attack (meaning that they are not bombing Russians but supplying protection to the terrorists attacking the Russians)?  Essentially, what my concern is, US and Turkey will use this as a pretext to get rid of Assad, and then Russia is forced out of Syria altogether.  And what will be end result? Wasted money and death of 21+ service men of Russia for nothing.  No accomplishment or anything.

I think you guys are not seeing what this move for what it really was.  What makes this different than before, is that Turkey and US are now providing actual military support to the terrorists.  They even threatened to shoot down Russian and Syrian planes too.  So if they are willing to go that far, then they are willing to go far enough to strike Russians indirectly in Syria.

If these terrorists were to flood Aleppo and Latakia, they would have done it by now. And they tried. For about 4 years they tried. Let me explain you something, attacking Russian bases needs such a capability from these guys that it is simply not possible or feasible as it is now. Supported by Turkish airforce to attack where? There's a NFZ and I have yet to see Turkish jets crossing the border, given there was no fight for Jarabulus.

They are also using direct cover for one of their parties against ANOTHER one of their parties. It's very simple, this trend will have two consequences. Kurds going rogue the moment the Turks push too hard and the US having to sort them out...do you see where in this a couple of crates are going to be missing from SAA/Russian inventory...

You are running on the pretext that the Kurds are going to fight them.  They will not be.  They were condemned by their own people and following what US is telling them, to leave.   There are a few pockets fighting Turkey, but that is it. Once they are dealt with, Turkey will expand further and then set sights on Assad.  They may not attack Russian soldiers and equipment, but will prevent them from providing any aid by supporting a no fly zone and thus forcing Russia to stick to the ground and not do anything while Assad falls.

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

KoTeMoRe you bastard, you kept me lying awake in bed for a good half-hour trying to relate Shrodinger's cat to Russia. I'm still not 100% clear on what you mean.

It's easy really; In this forum there's so much schizophrenia about Russia, that it is like Schrodinger's cat. Weak and powerful. Stupid and cunning. Defeated yet winning. one thing and its opposite in the same time.  
Basically this conflict has to be seen in the trends that are impacted.

The Trend is this. By May 2015, the US administration was saying that there was no more future for Assad and militarily is was bleak. Here we are 15 months later and Assad is having a laugh at the US, Turkey AND the Kurds. Meanwhile the US has gone from train and equip folks to send its factions to fight each other. This would be another Afghanistan...we're like decades away from Afghanistan. Decades.

But are you not concerned that this will drag Russia down with it?  I mean, Turkey and US are flooding terrorists into Syria, especially after this move, and then if one thinks they stop in the north, they are only fooling themselves.  These terrorists will end up in Aleppo and Latakia.  Then what will happen if they attack Russian base outright? Will Russia bomb them? What if they are being supported by US and Turkey airforce in the attack (meaning that they are not bombing Russians but supplying protection to the terrorists attacking the Russians)?  Essentially, what my concern is, US and Turkey will use this as a pretext to get rid of Assad, and then Russia is forced out of Syria altogether.  And what will be end result? Wasted money and death of 21+ service men of Russia for nothing.  No accomplishment or anything.

I think you guys are not seeing what this move for what it really was.  What makes this different than before, is that Turkey and US are now providing actual military support to the terrorists.  They even threatened to shoot down Russian and Syrian planes too.  So if they are willing to go that far, then they are willing to go far enough to strike Russians indirectly in Syria.

If these terrorists were to flood Aleppo and Latakia, they would have done it by now. And they tried. For about 4 years they tried. Let me explain you something, attacking Russian bases needs such a capability from these guys that it is simply not possible or feasible as it is now. Supported by Turkish airforce to attack where? There's a NFZ and I have yet to see Turkish jets crossing the border, given there was no fight for Jarabulus.

They are also using direct cover for one of their parties against ANOTHER one of their parties. It's very simple, this trend will have two consequences. Kurds going rogue the moment the Turks push too hard and the US having to sort them out...do you see where in this a couple of crates are going to be missing from SAA/Russian inventory...

You are running on the pretext that the Kurds are going to fight them.  They will not be.  They were condemned by their own people and following what US is telling them, to leave.   There are a few pockets fighting Turkey, but that is it. Once they are dealt with, Turkey will expand further and then set sights on Assad.  They may not attack Russian soldiers and equipment, but will prevent them from providing any aid by supporting a no fly zone and thus forcing Russia to stick to the ground and not do anything while Assad falls.

AlfaT8 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

KoTeMoRe you bastard, you kept me lying awake in bed for a good half-hour trying to relate Shrodinger's cat to Russia. I'm still not 100% clear on what you mean.

It's easy really; In this forum there's so much schizophrenia about Russia, that it is like Schrodinger's cat. Weak and powerful. Stupid and cunning. Defeated yet winning. one thing and its opposite in the same time.  
Basically this conflict has to be seen in the trends that are impacted.

The Trend is this. By May 2015, the US administration was saying that there was no more future for Assad and militarily is was bleak. Here we are 15 months later and Assad is having a laugh at the US, Turkey AND the Kurds. Meanwhile the US has gone from train and equip folks to send its factions to fight each other. This would be another Afghanistan...we're like decades away from Afghanistan. Decades.

But are you not concerned that this will drag Russia down with it?  I mean, Turkey and US are flooding terrorists into Syria, especially after this move, and then if one thinks they stop in the north, they are only fooling themselves.  These terrorists will end up in Aleppo and Latakia.  Then what will happen if they attack Russian base outright? Will Russia bomb them? What if they are being supported by US and Turkey airforce in the attack (meaning that they are not bombing Russians but supplying protection to the terrorists attacking the Russians)?  Essentially, what my concern is, US and Turkey will use this as a pretext to get rid of Assad, and then Russia is forced out of Syria altogether.  And what will be end result? Wasted money and death of 21+ service men of Russia for nothing.  No accomplishment or anything.

I think you guys are not seeing what this move for what it really was.  What makes this different than before, is that Turkey and US are now providing actual military support to the terrorists.  They even threatened to shoot down Russian and Syrian planes too.  So if they are willing to go that far, then they are willing to go far enough to strike Russians indirectly in Syria.

If these terrorists were to flood Aleppo and Latakia, they would have done it by now. And they tried. For about 4 years they tried. Let me explain you something, attacking Russian bases needs such a capability from these guys that it is simply not possible or feasible as it is now. Supported by Turkish airforce to attack where? There's a NFZ and I have yet to see Turkish jets crossing the border, given there was no fight for Jarabulus.

They are also using direct cover for one of their parties against ANOTHER one of their parties. It's very simple, this trend will have two consequences. Kurds going rogue the moment the Turks push too hard and the US having to sort them out...do you see where in this a couple of crates are going to be missing from SAA/Russian inventory...

You are running on the pretext that the Kurds are going to fight them.  They will not be.  They were condemned by their own people and following what US is telling them, to leave.   There are a few pockets fighting Turkey, but that is it. Once they are dealt with, Turkey will expand further and then set sights on Assad.  They may not attack Russian soldiers and equipment, but will prevent them from providing any aid by supporting a no fly zone and thus forcing Russia to stick to the ground and not do anything while Assad falls.

WTF, Seph are you drinking something or has your account been jacked, there's no F'ing way the Kurds would run away like that regardless of what there spineless higher-ups or uncle sam says.
The Turks are trying to prevent the Kurds in the west and east form liking up there's no way in hell they would go for Assad unless they're suicidal.
"No fly-zone" against Russia, i would like to see them try.

PapaDragon wrote:
Simple. Turks will park their asses between two Kurdish zones and start going wide instead of pushing too much south.

Those who think that ''FSA will flood Aleppo and Latakia'' forget that nothing stopped them from doing so already. Border was wide open for years. Problem is that they get slaughtered when they pushed too close.

Turks will not touch Russian assets or their proxies ever again. Su-24 disaster aftermath showed as much. Now they know from Turkmen experience what will be the consequences. Only this time there are real Turks on the ground to fry.

If someone has issues with Turkish presence in Syria he can complain to Kurds.  

As for Russia complaining about ''Turkey going too far'' it's called diplomatic maneuvering. They will most certainly not say ''we are totally OK with this and it was partially our idea''.

par far wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Simple. Turks will park their asses between two Kurdish zones and start going wide instead of pushing too much south.

Those who think that ''FSA will flood Aleppo and Latakia'' forget that nothing stopped them from doing so already. Border was wide open for years. Problem is that they get slaughtered when they pushed too close.

Turks will not touch Russian assets or their proxies ever again. Su-24 disaster aftermath showed as much. Now they know from Turkmen experience what will be the consequences. Only this time there are real Turks on the ground to fry.

If someone has issues with Turkish presence in Syria he can complain to Kurds.  

As for Russia complaining about ''Turkey going too far'' it's called diplomatic maneuvering. They will most certainly not say ''we are totally OK with this and it was partially our idea''.

And what do you think they will use that space(Northern Syria for), I will tell you, to cause problems for Russia, I say, start arming the Kurds with heavy weapons and let them go at Turkey but this won't likely happen(which is just fucking stupid), if the Kurds are armed with heavy weapons and going after Turkey, than Russia, will have more chips to play with. They are trying to set up another Israel in Northern Syria, don't let that happen, at any cost. Arms the fucking the Kurds and tell them to go fight against, Turkey and you will have a your own region in Syria(with friendly terms with the Assad government), you just have to tell the Kurds to fight and when they are done fighting, you can tell them to fuck off(they won't be able to do anything because most of them, will be killed off anyways.

sepheronx wrote:

par far wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Simple. Turks will park their asses between two Kurdish zones and start going wide instead of pushing too much south.

Those who think that ''FSA will flood Aleppo and Latakia'' forget that nothing stopped them from doing so already. Border was wide open for years. Problem is that they get slaughtered when they pushed too close.

Turks will not touch Russian assets or their proxies ever again. Su-24 disaster aftermath showed as much. Now they know from Turkmen experience what will be the consequences. Only this time there are real Turks on the ground to fry.

If someone has issues with Turkish presence in Syria he can complain to Kurds.  

As for Russia complaining about ''Turkey going too far'' it's called diplomatic maneuvering. They will most certainly not say ''we are totally OK with this and it was partially our idea''.

And what do you think they will use that space(Northern Syria for), I will tell you, to cause problems for Russia, I say, start arming the Kurds with heavy weapons and let them go at Turkey but this won't likely happen(which is just fucking stupid), if the Kurds are armed with heavy weapons and going after Turkey, than Russia, will have more chips to play with. They are trying to set up another Israel in Northern Syria, don't let that happen, at any cost. Arms the fucking the Kurds and tell them to go fight against, Turkey and you will have a your own region in Syria(with friendly terms with the Assad government), you just have to tell the Kurds to fight and when they are done fighting, you can tell them to fuck off(they won't be able to do anything because most of them, will be killed off anyways.

But you guys keep ignoring my statement.  The Kurds will NOT be fighting Turks or US.  US is backing Turks, and US controls the Kurds.  Their leader already agreed to withdraw.

sepheronx wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Russia is the new Schrodinger's cat. Total Success!

KoTeMoRe you bastard, you kept me lying awake in bed for a good half-hour trying to relate Shrodinger's cat to Russia. I'm still not 100% clear on what you mean.

It's easy really; In this forum there's so much schizophrenia about Russia, that it is like Schrodinger's cat. Weak and powerful. Stupid and cunning. Defeated yet winning. one thing and its opposite in the same time.  
Basically this conflict has to be seen in the trends that are impacted.

The Trend is this. By May 2015, the US administration was saying that there was no more future for Assad and militarily is was bleak. Here we are 15 months later and Assad is having a laugh at the US, Turkey AND the Kurds. Meanwhile the US has gone from train and equip folks to send its factions to fight each other. This would be another Afghanistan...we're like decades away from Afghanistan. Decades.

But are you not concerned that this will drag Russia down with it?  I mean, Turkey and US are flooding terrorists into Syria, especially after this move, and then if one thinks they stop in the north, they are only fooling themselves.  These terrorists will end up in Aleppo and Latakia.  Then what will happen if they attack Russian base outright? Will Russia bomb them? What if they are being supported by US and Turkey airforce in the attack (meaning that they are not bombing Russians but supplying protection to the terrorists attacking the Russians)?  Essentially, what my concern is, US and Turkey will use this as a pretext to get rid of Assad, and then Russia is forced out of Syria altogether.  And what will be end result? Wasted money and death of 21+ service men of Russia for nothing.  No accomplishment or anything.

I think you guys are not seeing what this move for what it really was.  What makes this different than before, is that Turkey and US are now providing actual military support to the terrorists.  They even threatened to shoot down Russian and Syrian planes too.  So if they are willing to go that far, then they are willing to go far enough to strike Russians indirectly in Syria.

If these terrorists were to flood Aleppo and Latakia, they would have done it by now. And they tried. For about 4 years they tried. Let me explain you something, attacking Russian bases needs such a capability from these guys that it is simply not possible or feasible as it is now. Supported by Turkish airforce to attack where? There's a NFZ and I have yet to see Turkish jets crossing the border, given there was no fight for Jarabulus.

They are also using direct cover for one of their parties against ANOTHER one of their parties. It's very simple, this trend will have two consequences. Kurds going rogue the moment the Turks push too hard and the US having to sort them out...do you see where in this a couple of crates are going to be missing from SAA/Russian inventory...

You are running on the pretext that the Kurds are going to fight them.  They will not be.  They were condemned by their own people and following what US is telling them, to leave.   There are a few pockets fighting Turkey, but that is it. Once they are dealt with, Turkey will expand further and then set sights on Assad.  They may not attack Russian soldiers and equipment, but will prevent them from providing any aid by supporting a no fly zone and thus forcing Russia to stick to the ground and not do anything while Assad falls.

WTF, Seph are you drinking something or has your account been jacked, there's no F'ing way the Kurds would run away like that regardless of what there spineless higher-ups or uncle sam says.
The Turks are trying to prevent the Kurds in the west and east form liking up there's no way in hell they would go for Assad unless they're suicidal.
"No fly-zone" against Russia, i would like to see them try.

But it isn't about what you guys think you know, but about the possibilities.  What if Turkey does attempt this?  What will Russia do? You think Russia will step in? Because they didn't when Russian pilot died (A Russian died).  I am starting to lose trust in Putin and well, reasons are this situation now and this article: http://russia-insider.com/en/must-watch-russian-analyst-mikhail-khazin-explains-how-putin-has-broken-away-international-elite-and  Russia has too many people within the government that have openly talked against Putin and still managed to keep their jobs.  If he was really good at what he does, he would have dealt with these internal issues.  He would have retaliated against Turkey and not forgiven them so quickly, and they wouldn't have allowed Turkey to venture into Syria.  These Kurds issue could have been resolved by Syria and Russia without needing someone else to openly invade territory and flood it with terrorists.

Read this: http://theduran.com/turkeys-illegal-invasion-syria-proves-erdogan-no-friend-russia/