Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #13

There are an enormous number of problems that need to be solved to create a missile design... different solutions have different effects so you need to choose your solutions carefully.

One of the first AAMs the Soviets got their hands on to examine during the Cold War was the Sidewinder and it was a revelation... not because it was super advanced and powerful... actually the most important thing they learned was the value of simple modular design.

The contemporary missile of the Soviet forces was the AA-1 Alkali... and it was a mess of wires and bits and pieces all over the place... in comparison the Sidewinder was like someone separated each component and made it a piece and all the pieces were attached together to make the missile... super simple.

It meant each piece could be made separately and then assembled... faulty seeker... take it off and replace it... no problem. Wing gets damaged... make another one and use it to replace it.

Looking through the design in more detail they found the American seeker was inferior, the rocket motor was inferior, so they used their own versions of those... the servo motors for control surfaces were smaller and better so they copied them, but it was the gyros that really impressed them most... free spinning little fly wheels that were tiny compared with the cumbersome box of electronics the Russian models were using... so they copied those too.

The problem was that going from building a complex and messy missile to modular simple design needs to come from the design stage and that meant the Soviet pilots were not going to benefit from what they had learned for at least a decade, so the obvious decision to get better missiles faster was to replicate the US missile using mostly Soviet parts to create something they could get in to service as quick as possible... I suspect a few western countries are thinking of doing the same with Pantsir missiles as we speak... in panic over the drone threat... just normal drones and not swarm drones mind you.

These Israeli weapons will be looked at and will be assessed in terms of performance... and for Russia they will want to know what ideas they are using and what sort of performance they would expect for other weapons. I doubt they will replicate anything completely but a few features, a few smart design choices, and of course not just the weapon makers but also the air defence personnel will want to know about them too.

You need to be pro active and not just wait for them to get something right before you respond... you need to be looking at their solutions and actions to keep your counters and tactics up to date and effective.

Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
1h
Video of that Russian 40 vehicle convoy arriving in Ain Issa with Typhoon-K MRAPs, BTR-82A, Tigr-M, Ural-4320, KamAZ-5350, and civilian semi-trailer trucks. 50


https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/status/1192523481579167746


Video in the link. Some stuff being carried on the trucks is visible but I can't guess what is it. Any idea ? Looks like ammunition but I suspect it is stuff for building up their new base.

Isos wrote:
Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
1h
Video of that Russian 40 vehicle convoy arriving in Ain Issa with Typhoon-K MRAPs, BTR-82A, Tigr-M, Ural-4320, KamAZ-5350, and civilian semi-trailer trucks. 50


https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/status/1192523481579167746


Video in the link. Some stuff being carried on the trucks is visible but I can't guess what is it. Any idea ? Looks like ammunition but I suspect it is stuff for building up their new base.

It would be all kinds of things, it's standard to box everything you can in similar packages that way if there was an ambush the enemy won't know what truck to hit. Etc RPG an ammunition truck and cause a massive explosion.

There are videos of angry kurds throwing stones at Turkey and Russia conboys.. it will not be surprising
the idea came from those cowards that run away and left the kurds alone on their own When Turkey threatened
to fight them.. So either US or Israel have to be behind of all this new initiative..  The kurds were even jumping
on top of Russian trucks and destroying the communication equipment above..  

Russia will have to talk seriously with Kurdish leaders and give them an ultimatum , that they need to control their population before it goes out of control ,that if any of their soldiers harmed ,they will be held accounted and Russia will leave them alone on their own with Turkey army to fight them..

Prohibit them from targeting Russian and Turkey convoys..  Perhaps this is the reason why Russia is using now choppers to open the way for the trucks patrol .. because any civilian that try to get close to the convoy will receive 10 tons of sand in their face..when choppers fly above them..  Still it is important that russia take firm control of Kurds actions ,or else Kurds could provoke Turkey Army into a fight and Kurds will be the ones to blame.. later..  So far if it was by me i will deport all Syrian Kurds to Turkey and kick them from all Syria..
I don't like traitors and opportunistic thieves , that cooperated with US to destroy Syria and now they are lamenting the consequences of their treasonous actions / That their Kurdistan project will never in a million years happen.. even after they were warned a million of times that Americans were fooling them.. they did not listen ,now they had to run towards Russia and Syrian army for protecting them..  So is great that KARMA pay them back the suffering their thievery of stealing Syria its land will have now.. all they fought in decades to gain their independence will be reversed.. Since Syria will not negotiate anything less than total submission to the Syrian Government and ARmy..  and disarmament of those western paid 5thj column that seek to sabotage any agreement for Syria and Kurds to get together.. If Russia did not interfere to protect Kurds.. it will have been a total massacre of kurds.. with US ,France and EUROPE doing nothing.. as they do nothing to Israel when attack palestinians..

So if i was to bet.. there will be more hostilities towards Russian military patrols .
Including road side bombs ,possibly with Russians killed and CIA and US military that never dare to confront Russia directly in a open fight behind this..  Kurds will risk losing everything every inch of land they illegally occupy of Syria ,if they continue their attacks on Russian military.. now it is stones ..but we know how the west will try use this to target Russian military or even ambush it rocket grenades ,with the same TOW weapons
they received from US.  All Kurdish leaders who betrayed Syria need to be hanged in public to send a message to
any other kurd who dares to join any western operation to sabotage the peace deal of Russia and Turkey.. so they don't massacred.

update.....
the interesting part of all this . is that there was Jews Press in the right place.. taking photos and video
to show it to the whole world.. of how Russian military is hated by Kurds..

https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/status/1192880676506345472/photo/3

photos taken by a jew.. his name is on the picture.. Delil Souleman .. is a jewish name..
how surprising..     Jews organizing the the Rock throwing events against Russian military in Syria.

here is the bastard who organized the stone throwing event.... from AFP media..

https://twitter.com/delilsouleman

It have to be an organized event ..because how he knew they were going to throw stones
and in that particular place?   there were many children there ,to maximize the negativity
against Russia in case people die , a mysterious grenade fall on civilians.. then russian soldiers will be blamed
for it.. even if the was made by NATO.

Jews are highly predictable.. their moves..
So seems the biggest losers..Long Term in the Syrian war ,Americans and Jews ,still can
handle their defeat in Syria and trying to see if they can do something ,even if it is symbolically
for anti Russian propaganda..  They will now do headlines. .Russians rejected in Syria ..
They are truly Butthurt over their defeat in Syria and this is why they are organizing groups of resistance
in North of Syria , against Russia and Turkey patrols.. yet this will not do anything other than to try
to feed international media with propaganda of Russia in Syria. there is no way the jews and US will influence
anyone anymore in the zone after their betrayal with kurds.. they can't have both ways.. either Lose Turkey from NATO or lose Kurds support.. and so naturally they chosen to backdown and not face Turkey army..

Russia will have to be very careful with major attacks with weapons or road side bombs. .drones used at night to supervise the road ,of no mines deployment..

https://www.nordicmonitor.com/2019/11/russia-might-have-planned-to-bomb-erdogans-palace-after-downing-of-su-24-warplane/

I don't know if it is a reliable source.

Turkish authorities were concerned that the Russians might have planned to blow up the palace of Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, in the aftermath of the downing of a Russian SU-24 jet by a Turkish F-16 on November 24, 2015, a secret intelligence document obtained by Nordic Monitor suggests.

According to communication picked up by the Signal Intelligence Directorate of Turkey’s National Intelligence Organization (MITSIB), the Russians planned to fly warplanes with a heavier payload than usual.

The conversation between a Syrian brigadier general identified only as Adnan and another person was recorded on December 3, 2015. The two talked about an upcoming meeting on December 30, 2015 between a Russian general identified as Sergei and another unidentified officer from the Syrian government forces. The meeting was scheduled to be held at the Russian-operated Hmeimim Airbase southeast of the city of Latakia, and the Russian general was expected to come from Syria’s Kessab region, located in northwestern Syria’s Latakia Governorate.

The topic of the discussion would be loading Russian SU-22 and SU-34 warplanes with the heavier payload, and the Russian general was expected to inform the Syrian side about targets on which it would be used, according to the intelligence.

More chatter picked by MITSIB from conversations among Syrian government forces was found to be related to the first intelligence and included in the same memo. The second communication quoted a conversation as follows: “We will load ammunition on this one that will go out; barrel bombs will be added as well and all will go to Erdoğan’s palace.”

There are no russian Su-22. And I doubt that the russian air force would use "barrel bombs."

Hole wrote:There are no russian Su-22. And I doubt that the russian air force would use "barrel bombs."

A clear fiction piece referring to banana republic military junk as if Russia can't make its own bombs. Western MSM
"journalist" chauvinism is boundless. Much like their IQ is infinitesimal.

Nordic Monitor is anti ERdogan Turkish NGO that also oppose Russia  .
Likely a CIA operated NGO , and they were kicked from Turkey..
That is trying to create tensions between Turkey and Russia..

What is also interesting about them.. is that they also dedicated to spread
a lot of rumors of ERdogan exporting jihadist groups to China..
whether is true or not.. it looks more like a
So CIA/Soros funded NGO operation....

you can read their bio.. under [Who we are].. seems to be a "3 man news"
disinformation/tension creation operation.
http://www.nordicrmn.org

If they were mounting a strike on Turkey it would be much cheaper and easier to fly an Iskander missile battery in to Syria and use that... they would certainly never use Su-22s or so called barrel bombs... for that sort of mission.

That is media code that is supposed to suggest something more evil or more powerful than standard bombs... which they aren't... they are makeshift weapons used by countries that don't mass manufacture bombs.

As mentioned... this Nordic Monitor is grasping at straws and using smoke and mirrors to distract and confuse... you know... the normal thing in western media these days when they don't have anything truthful or accurate to not write.

Instant News Alerts
@InstaNewsAlerts
JUST IN: Israeli media reporting a Russian submarine was detected a mere 8 miles off the coast of central #Israel. This reportedly happened around 3 months ago.

Some funny comments that will trigger some members here :

Larne Gabriel
@larne737

@InstaNewsAlerts
Probably followed by a USN Virginia class submarine with a hot Torpedo locked and loaded


Adam Erwin
@0rangeandwhite
·
1h
I’d venture a guess and say nuclear. Those old Russian diesel boats sound like a dryer full of billiard balls falling down the stairs; so to make it remotely close to the coast like that it would have to be semi quiet. Quieter than the stuff the IDF runs but not USN quiet.

More about israel/russia :


Syrian_MC
@Syrian_MC
·
31m
The Russian Israeli ties are going into the drain

And we’re not talking about any published information.

Those old Russian diesel boats sound like a dryer full of billiard balls falling down the stairs;..

Their Kilo SSKs r even quieter than SSNs & r being called "black holes" in the West:
https://thediplomat.com/2019/10/new-russian-attack-sub-enters-sea-trials/

A lot of silencing went into the Kilos. The hull is described as having the approximate shape of a drop of water and greatly reducing water resistance over older, World War II–era submarine designs. The propulsion plant is isolated on a rubber base so it doesn’t touch the hull, preventing vibrations from turning into noise that can be heard outside the boat. The ship has a rubbery anechoic coating to deaden noise emanating from the submarine, ..
The 636.3 class was an all-around upgrade. The dimensions of the submarine are essentially the same, but the bow has been reshaped to improve hydrodynamic flow. It features improved quietness due to further isolation of the machinery, moving other machinery to areas where they would make less noise. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-kilo-class-submarine-why-russias-enemies-fear-the-black-18140

Israel knew the rules and they tried to play silly buggers... actively using notification protocols to get the Russians to send one of their planes into a conflict area so they could use it as cover for their withdrawal from an attack is the height of cowardice... and trying to blame the Syrians for it is just cheap drama BS too.

Fuck Israel.

Russia was communicating and cooperating with them and they got screwed... Israel is to blame, but even from a moral perspective they were supporting terrorists so why should Russia continue to cooperate with those liars?

Isos wrote:More about israel/russia :


Syrian_MC
@Syrian_MC
·
31m
The Russian Israeli ties are going into the drain

And we’re not talking about any published information.

Russian-Isreal relations were never good to start with just at best "Workable" the downing of that plane just made it nose dive, in the end it doesn't change anything, however.

things will get hotter in very small time.. just yesterday israel bombed damascus..
apparently in the secure zone of the embassies where russian have their embassy too ?
and they target the lebanesse embasy ,killing people there ,supposedly..

to so such level of precision attack ,you need people in the ground or drones to guide the missile
to the right place or perhaps was tv guide.. and they knew were to hit..

im wondering what is russia military doing wrong ,that can't block israel attacks..
this are not thousands or hundreds of missiles that russia need to intercept.. but instead a dozen of them..
or less ,something that should be easy for s-300.

im starting to think. those s-300s ,tors and pantsirs are not as good as advertised and  the russian military are totally powerless to defend syria from israel attacks..  to know that israel is bombing near russian embassy it should be of major concern..

seems as if the probability of interception of russia setup defenses for syrian army are from 30% to 40%
vs israel airforce attacks. like 1 missile of 3 intercepted. there have to be a major flaw in russian tactics and air defenses..
such level performance is close to mediocre.. imagine if the missile had nukes..  then russia will
be indeed doomed ,because just 1 missile that enter will be a disaster if armed with a powerful nuke.

in a mass scale attack of the likes that nato can do... 300 -600 cruise missiles.. if russia air defenses
in syria are indicative of what they can do ,then they are totally doomed vs a surprise first strike major mass scale cruise missile attack.

not that american or israel defenses are that good either.. probably much worse.. and more weak..
since israel iron dome fails more than half of interceptions too..
so looks like the only way for effective defense will be to go in the offence and  not wait enemy to attack first.
not even allow enemy to try.
also there are claims that russia captured an sling missile that failed to hit syria airforce planes in damascus..
and sent to moscow for reverse engineering.. israel media are the one saying that.. if any of this is true..
and now the submarine rumor.. then looks like israel and russia relations are in a major new level of tensions
and now they posturing and provoking each other.. with chest beating..to see who is the most tough .
of ...you do this and we do that..

Hopeless: why the Pentagon intends to leave about 500 troops in Syria
https://russian.rt.com/world/article/686003-ssha-siriya-500-voennyh

They r in their last throws! Those oil wells can be attacked by Iranian drones &/ Russian CMs from the Caspian & Med. Seas.
OTH, how will they smuggle that oil if all the roads/pipelines must pass over territories they don't control?

GarryB wrote:If they were mounting a strike on Turkey it would be much cheaper and easier to fly an Iskander missile battery in to Syria and use that... they would certainly never use Su-22s or so called barrel bombs... for that sort of mission.

That is media code that is supposed to suggest something more evil or more powerful than standard bombs... which they aren't... they are makeshift weapons used by countries that don't mass manufacture bombs.

As mentioned... this Nordic Monitor is grasping at straws and using smoke and mirrors to distract and confuse... you know... the normal thing in western media these days when they don't have anything truthful or accurate to not write.

Russia has Iskanders in Armenia already, no need for any in Syria.

Russia does have the Bastion-P system in Syria though, and as we've found out recently Onyxes have land-attack capability too.

GarryB wrote:Israel knew the rules and they tried to play silly buggers... actively using notification protocols to get the Russians to send one of their planes into a conflict area so they could use it as cover for their withdrawal from an attack is the height of cowardice... and trying to blame the Syrians for it is just cheap drama BS too.

Fuck Israel.

Russia was communicating and cooperating with them and they got screwed... Israel is to blame, but even from a moral perspective they were supporting terrorists so why should Russia continue to cooperate with those liars?

Well Israel at least held up its side of the bargain. The entire border with the occupied Golan Heights has been secured by the SAA last year, in return for a buffer zone guaranteed by Russia against any Iranian presence.

Funny how Israel joined the swelling ranks of countries in the Middle East eager to use jihadists as proxy armies though.

Vann7 wrote:things will get hotter in very small time.. just yesterday israel bombed damascus..
apparently in the secure zone of the embassies where russian have their embassy too ?
and they target the lebanesse embasy ,killing people there ,supposedly..

to so such level of precision attack ,you need people in the ground or drones to guide the missile
to the right place or perhaps was tv guide.. and they knew were to hit..

im wondering what is russia military doing wrong ,that can't block israel attacks..
this are not thousands or hundreds of missiles that russia need to intercept.. but instead a dozen of them..
or less ,something that should be easy for s-300.

im starting to think. those s-300s ,tors and pantsirs are not as good as advertised and the russian military are totally powerless to defend syria from israel attacks.. to know that israel is bombing near russian embassy it should be of major concern..

seems as if the probability of interception of russia setup defenses for syrian army are from 30% to 40%
vs israel airforce attacks. like 1 missile of 3 intercepted. there have to be a major flaw in russian tactics and air defenses..
such level performance is close to mediocre.. imagine if the missile had nukes.. then russia will
be indeed doomed ,because just 1 missile that enter will be a disaster if armed with a powerful nuke.

in a mass scale attack of the likes that nato can do... 300 -600 cruise missiles.. if russia air defenses
in syria are indicative of what they can do ,then they are totally doomed vs a surprise first strike major mass scale cruise missile attack.

not that american or israel defenses are that good either.. probably much worse.. and more weak..
since israel iron dome fails more than half of interceptions too..
so looks like the only way for effective defense will be to go in the offence and not wait enemy to attack first.
not even allow enemy to try.
also there are claims that russia captured an sling missile that failed to hit syria airforce planes in damascus..
and sent to moscow for reverse engineering.. israel media are the one saying that.. if any of this is true..
and now the submarine rumor.. then looks like israel and russia relations are in a major new level of tensions
and now they posturing and provoking each other.. with chest beating..to see who is the most tough .
of ...you do this and we do that..

Israel reportedly warns Russia 15 minutes before attacks. That's not the same as seeking approval, but they do warn - which is enough time to warn the Syrians and make sure their own air defenses are active.

Damascus did shoot down some Israeli missiles or bombs that night, but it seems they were decoys.

Actual target was the son of an Islamic Jihad member (Iranian Palestine-based proxy group), or rather the guy's home and he wasn't home.

I guess either the Russians don't have any AD in Damascus (and nothing I've ever read indicates they do), or they just decided that this guy wasn't worth the trouble of protecting. Which is pretty much the understanding between Russia and Israel - Russia has no reason to protect any Iranian assets in Syria.

Anyway relations with Israel aren't particularly valuable for Russia. Far more valuable are relations with Damascus.
But Russia doesn't want Syria to get dragged into a war against a foe that it's not ready to face. Hence why it keeps open dialogue with countries like Israel and Turkey and avoids escalation. For this reason, relations with Israel serve a purpose.

Russia has Iskanders in Armenia already, no need for any in Syria.

Iskander has already been spotted the first year of their intervention in Syria. Rumors says it was even used (probably tested with or two live fire).

IMO it is deployed with tactical nuks to prevent any stupid act from nearby air forces. There was only 1 launcher (with two missiles).

Isos wrote:

Russia has Iskanders in Armenia already, no need for any in Syria.

Iskander has already been spotted the first year of their intervention in Syria. Rumors says it was even used (probably tested with or two live fire).

IMO it is deployed with tactical nuks to prevent any stupid act from nearby air forces. There was only 1 launcher (with two missiles).

Maybe it was tested operationally against terror factions, why not. They can at least test destructive power and different warheads.

But as for equipping it with nukes - what the hell for? Russia already has missiles and launch platforms capable of reaching any point in the planet. Exposed Iskanders far from Russian territory are just obvious, vulnerable, expensive hardware in this context.

Iskanders are valuable first-strike, decapitation weapons. That's why they're along Russian borders, protected by masses of Russian AD and so on. I haven't heard of any Iskanders deployed in Syria, maybe they were there briefly but now?
If Russia wants to do a first-strike against say Israel, submarines are the way to go. Kinzhals too.

Iskander has already been spotted the first year of their intervention in Syria. Rumors says it was even used (probably tested with or two live fire).

ur sources?

IMO it is deployed with tactical nuks to prevent any stupid act from nearby air forces.

FYI, the US has nukes in Turkey.
Russia can always use her Tu-95/160s & naval Calibers, if it ever comes to that.

Funny how Israel joined the swelling ranks of countries in the Middle East eager to use jihadists as proxy armies though.

The old saying... the enemy of my enemy is my friend... which is obviously a crock of shit, but the obvious result you can get from it is to get your enemies fighting each other and let it be a blood bath because when people die on both sides it is good for you because none of the blood shed is yours... so let it continue forever if you can manage that...

[quote="flamming_python"]

GarryB wrote:Israel knew the rules and they tried to play silly buggers... actively using notification protocols to
Anyway relations with Israel aren't particularly valuable for Russia. Far more valuable are relations with Damascus.
But Russia doesn't want Syria to get dragged into a war against a foe that it's not ready to face. Hence why it keeps open dialogue with countries like Israel and Turkey and avoids escalation. For this reason, relations with Israel serve a purpose.

the assad castle is near the embassies.. so russia will have reasons to protect assad there.
because losing asssad in a bombing attack could create major huges problems in the stability
of syria. so seems there is something really bad with russian tactics ,and air defenses setup in syria.

sometimes journalist from rt goes to damascus and russia have acussed israel of only
warning 2 minutes before any attack.. so is not enough time.. israel interference in syria,
is all about scaring russia to abandon support of syria. this is why they bombing at times so close
to russian base... as it happened during the shotdown of the cargo plane..

russia simply damage israel interest of destroying syria.. and on top he arms with major weapons syria..
so they will have reasons to sabotage russia liberations operations in syria..

Tsavo Lion wrote:

Iskander has already been spotted the first year of their intervention in Syria. Rumors says it was even used (probably tested with or two live fire).

ur sources?

IMO it is deployed with tactical nuks to prevent any stupid act from nearby air forces.

FYI, the US has nukes in Turkey.
Russia can always use her Tu-95/160s & naval Calibers, if it ever comes to that.

There were satelitte pictures of a launcher in hmeimim. You will find them in this thread I think. It was few years ago.

Iskander nuks will need 1-2 minutes to hit israel or turkey. Tu-95 and kalibr from the caspian or mediteranean 2-3 h and we don't know if those kalibr in kilo subs patroling in med. are nuks armed.

Russia sets up helicopter base in northern Syria after U.S. exit

https://www.euronews.com/2019/11/14/russia-sets-up-helicopter-base-in-northern-syria-after-us-exit