Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5

A Su-57 with a band-aid.

Hole wrote:

A Su-57 with a band-aid.

That's is so, so...so RUSSIAN !

This is some sort of modification of the inlet.

Hole wrote:This is some sort of modification of the inlet.

Looks like an area repainted and they forgot to take the masking tape off

Why the first one has a different nose tail ? From the 1st protypes maybe ?

Isos wrote:Why the first one has a different nose tail ? From the 1st protypes maybe ?

 
Pointed Tail is for parachute for Spin Test and other that may be risky from recovery pov so need a chute should the need arise

Looks like an area repainted and they forgot to take the masking tape off

Except there are no squares in the painted pattern so having a square of masking tape does not make sense.

There are vents located right there for the engine, so it might be an alternative design of air intake to reduce RCS or something... I don't think it is just paint masking because as I said... the paintwork does not include squares in its design...

Source: the contract for the supply of 13 Su-57 for the Russian VKS is planned to be signed in 2020


Part of the aircraft will receive engines of the second stage, the source said.




MOSCOW, January 16. / TASS /. The second contract for the production and supply of Su-57 fighter jets, involving the transfer of 13 such machines to the Aerospace Forces (VKS), is scheduled to be signed in 2020, a source in the aircraft industry told TASS on Wednesday. Under the first contract, two fifth-generation aircraft will arrive in 2019-2020.

"In 2020, it is planned to sign the second contract for the production and delivery of 13 Su-57 fighters to the troops, some of which will be received by the engines of the second stage," the agency’s source said. "The term of the new contract will be five years in advance," he added.

The source said that "in accordance with the contract signed in 2018, this year one Serial Su-57 with the engines of the first stage will be transferred to the VKS, the second aircraft with the same engines - in 2020".

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6003231

Good to see that the second stage engine will not take as long as the first to be ready.

I realy hope they will sign other deals after 2020 and before 2025. If This means 15 fighters in 2025 thats

[quote="Hole"]




The ventilation is gone. Maybe they are tesing the difference between with and without for the new engines.

From the side of bmpd, let us point out that this information corresponds to the information known to us, according to which the State Armaments Program for 2018–2027 provides for the delivery of only 15 serial (actually pre-serial) Su-57 (T-50) fighters. The contract for the first two of them (T-50S-1 and T-50S-2) was concluded in 2018.

As our blog has repeatedly noted, the actual mass production of the Su-57 for the combat units of the Russian Aerospace Forces will be deployed no earlier than 2026 - apparently within the framework of the new and promising State Armaments Program for 2026-2035.

Initially, the former State Armaments Program for 2011-2020 was optimistic about the purchase of 60 T-50 serial fighters (with the delivery of the first two in 2015), but later its revised version included the purchase of only 12 T-50 serial fighters, with the delivery of the first two (T -50S-1 and Т-50S-2) in 2017.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3496286.html

George1 wrote:

   From the side of bmpd, let us point out that this information corresponds to the information known to us, according to which the State Armaments Program for 2018–2027 provides for the delivery of only 15 serial (actually pre-serial) Su-57 (T-50) fighters. The contract for the first two of them (T-50S-1 and T-50S-2) was concluded in 2018.

   As our blog has repeatedly noted, the actual mass production of the Su-57 for the combat units of the Russian Aerospace Forces will be deployed no earlier than 2026 - apparently within the framework of the new and promising State Armaments Program for 2026-2035.

   Initially, the former State Armaments Program for 2011-2020 was optimistic about the purchase of 60 T-50 serial fighters (with the delivery of the first two in 2015), but later its revised version included the purchase of only 12 T-50 serial fighters, with the delivery of the first two (T -50S-1 and Т-50S-2) in 2017.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3496286.html

...its not even two fu@#ing planes a year!!.Why so low?

Vents on one side and not on the other so they can directly test and measure the difference on the same aircraft with the same engines operating in the same conditions and environment.

dino00 wrote:

George1 wrote:

   From the side of bmpd, let us point out that this information corresponds to the information known to us, according to which the State Armaments Program for 2018–2027 provides for the delivery of only 15 serial (actually pre-serial) Su-57 (T-50) fighters. The contract for the first two of them (T-50S-1 and T-50S-2) was concluded in 2018.

   As our blog has repeatedly noted, the actual mass production of the Su-57 for the combat units of the Russian Aerospace Forces will be deployed no earlier than 2026 - apparently within the framework of the new and promising State Armaments Program for 2026-2035.

   Initially, the former State Armaments Program for 2011-2020 was optimistic about the purchase of 60 T-50 serial fighters (with the delivery of the first two in 2015), but later its revised version included the purchase of only 12 T-50 serial fighters, with the delivery of the first two (T -50S-1 and Т-50S-2) in 2017.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3496286.html

...its not even two fu@#ing planes a year!!.Why so low?

No money and not prepared to fund with debt like the US?

``No money and not prepared to fund with debt like the US?``

30 billion euros Budget Surplus in 2018, reserves of 468 billion dollars as 1 january 2019, its not money. I dont understand, 6 billion euros of development for fifteen planes

I know they have other things more important...go Russia i cant hate you

dino00 wrote:``No money and not prepared to fund with debt like the US?``

30 billion euros Budget Surplus in 2018, reserves of 468 billion dollars as 1 january 2019, its not money. I dont understand, 6 billion euros of development for fifteen planes

I know they have other things more important...go Russia i cant hate you

Been thinking about this and I am fairly certain that Su-57 is encountering same issues as various AK rifle replacements over the years: original still gets the job done gloriously.

Think about it. There are two potential enemy types Russia could face realistically:

1) Non-peer enemies without airforce or one so weak that current Russian aircraft can easily erase from existence

2) Near-peer or peer enemies against which fighter aircraft won't matter too much because situation will quickly escalate into nuclear war

So why accelerate procurement of expensive new fighter jets when current ones get the job done at fraction or the cost in all possible scenarios?

They will need Su-57 but later down the road. They could dump extra money into getting them quickly and in larger numbers but what's the rush?

Believe the engines are not ready yet.

Engines were expected to be ready for mass production for 2021-22 if I remember correctly. So this procurement would be, if mixed as stated, a bit curious. On the other hand, 15 planes is more than one squadron. Maybe one plane per year with first stage engines between 2019 and 2021 and then 2-3 planes per year with izd. 30 from 2022 to 2025? That would mean three planes for training and preparation of manuals etc. (Kubinca?) plus one fully operational sqdn., any idea which one should be the first one to be equipped with the Su-57?

Still think they could ramp the production up a bit within the current state arms program but what papadragon says is true; maybe it is better to wait for more info on PCA/NGAD before producing PAK-FA in bigger numbers. And of course early operational experience is best done with a controlled amount of units rather than having to face unexpected reliability problems on dozens of planes. So the number looks low but in perspective it may be the most rational approach.

LMFS wrote:...And of course early operational experience is best done with a controlled amount of units rather than having to face unexpected reliability problems on dozens of planes...

Which is precisely what happened with Su-35 acquisition so they had to spend years getting random crap on the first batch fixed

Also, Russia knows that USSR lost Cold War solely due to economic, not military component

Looks like they learned their lesson and are stockpiling cash this time while only buying weapons they actually need

NationalInterest 19.12.2018 forecasts 12 Su-57 doubleplusungood misprints rectify

BusinessInsider 6.7.2018 minitrue malquoted Eurasia has always been planning to buy 25 Su-57s rewrite fullwise upsub antefiling

Perhaps their various encounters with F-22s and F-35s via Syria and sending the F-22s to Europe over the Ukraine issue has made them realise that Su-35s and Mig-35s will be more than enough to deal with the wests super planes which really are not that good.

Been thinking about this and I am fairly certain that Su-57 is encountering same issues as various AK rifle replacements over the years: original still gets the job done gloriously.

Would agree with this but would also add that there are a whole new generation of weapons being developed for the Su-57 too that are probably not ready yet either, and these new systems and items will transform the future performance of the aircraft as a weapon system too.

Added to this that these are not just multirole fighters... I believe the french called their Rafale Omnirole, where it is not just a fighter or a bomber but can perform lots of different roles on the battlefield at one time... Frontal Aviation had fighters carrying two bombs and two AAMs so they flew in and dropped their bombs and then climbed up and became fighter cover for the next wave of fighters dropping light bombs... the Su-57 will be even more so... it will be recon and Sead and ground attack, and communications link, and combat management support... just as an example an Su-57 might fly a mission in Syria and as it flys it collects up high resolution images of the battlefield below it and the air space above... that data in real time could be passed to command via datalink so local terrain maps can have information added about the ground positions of the enemy... a satellite uplink of the same data to send to Moscow command centres, while any communications could be detected from ground units. Friendly forces on the ground might communicate to the aircraft and ask for an aerial picture or that a target be scanned and identified, or to be protected from enemy air attack... the fighter might detect UAVs that it can jam or attack with high energy radar bursts from its AESA radar, or it might link up with friendly UAVs in the area and pass that data back to HQ with its superior power data links (via wing mounted L band AESAs or satellite links).

Such flexibility and multirole capability needs a lot of testing... there is currently no urgent reason to get large numbers into service, so taking their time and getting it right first time makes a lot of sense.

Look at the O2 suffocation issues with US aircraft at the moment and it is not a new issue....

Personally I would be asking what is so special about the F-35 that is getting it rushed into service if it can't even operate safely over Syria... why would anyone be mass producing large numbers of fighter aircraft in this economic and military environment...

PapaDragon wrote:

LMFS wrote:...And of course early operational experience is best done with a controlled amount of units rather than having to face unexpected reliability problems on dozens of planes...

Which is precisely what happened with Su-35 acquisition so they had to spend years getting random crap on the first batch fixed

Also, Russia knows that USSR lost Cold War solely due to economic, not military component

Looks like they learned their lesson and are stockpiling cash this time while only buying weapons they actually need

Bingo, give that man a cigar...

The Russia military and government clearly believes that mass production of the Su-57 is not essential for national defense and that Su-35S will suffice.   They will churn out a small group of Su-57 and perfect the design and the system integration and the engines, but will not commit to large numbers. The investment in new 5G technology won't be wasted, and I'd bet that the new Izd-30 will find their way into the Su-35 as an evolutionary upgrade.

I'd say this decision reinforces the view that Russia expects that advances in radar tech and signals technolgies will prove to be a breaker of stealth tech, and that VLO is to a large degree a bit of a cul-de-sac.  Expensive to develop and maintain, and very effective against low-tech adversaries and developing nation militaries, but defeatable by advanced peer-militaries like Russia.  Its still worth Russia investing in VLO for a new stratetic bomber as it will enhance surviveability when operating outside an NATOstani IADS, but for their fighters operating in a defensive stance within their own unparalleled multi-layered IADS?  I have every expectation that stealth will fail in such an environment.

GarryB wrote:Personally I would be asking what is so special about the F-35 that is getting it rushed into service if it can't even operate safely over Syria... why would anyone be mass producing large numbers of fighter aircraft in this economic and military environment...

Corporate profit and Pentagonian cock-stroking... nothing more.

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Riiiiiight....  

The "Su-57 has been cancelled" meme really wasn't entirely inaccurate after all. I mean, not really, but...

So, let's assume the second stage engine will actually be ready by around 2022. If that timeframe turns out to be correct, why only 15 by 2027 (!!!)?

Of course, on the hand, it's quite likely we won't be seeing proper 6th generation planes anytime soon, from any country. Possibly not until the late-to-mid 2030s, atleast when it comes to operational planes, so there'll still be time to procure Su-57s in numbers after the mid-2020s...

Big_Gazza wrote:Expensive to develop and maintain, and very effective against low-tech adversaries and developing nation militaries, but defeatable by advanced peer-militaries like Russia. Its still worth Russia investing in VLO for a new stratetic bomber as it will enhance surviveability when operating outside an NATOstani IADS, but for their fighters operating in a defensive stance within their own unparalleled multi-layered IADS? I have every expectation that stealth will fail in such an environment.

This seems to sum-up Russia's "philosophy" very well.

Kimppis wrote:The "Su-57 has been cancelled" meme really wasn't entirely inaccurate after all. I mean, not really, but...

It was and is utter bullshit, I don't know how we can still fall for these cheap propaganda tricks. MoD decides how many they need and when, regardless what the idiots in the Western echo chamber say this is a extremely long term program that continues as planed.

Numbers given today for 2027 are useless. No one knows what can happen. Eco situation can get better, production can be cheaper than expected so they order more of them.

Just look how the engine came ahead of the schedule.

They can also make huge advance in radar tech that allows a mig-35 to detect stealth fighters at 400km and r-77M able to track it from 20km. That would mean no stealth su-57 programme anymore but rather more upgraded su-35 and mig-35.