Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5

Isos wrote:

Hole wrote:And some of the pilots would die on the way to the battle.

And some will be shot down by other f-22 ...

And they cannot transfer data to all allied and to their own legacy planes.

But learn to use what you are given... I would expect if the aircraft try to suffocate the pilots then ideally you would want either the lead singer of INXS or German pilots to fly these planes...

On the flip side there are 12 flying prototypes of the Pak-Fa. None are operationally ready. At most between 5-15 Russian pilots have ever touched its cockpit and the procurement of this craft will be a slow trickle that won't significantly alter the force projection capacity of the Russian air force for years to come.

Thus, they are not underestimating something that simply doesn't exist. The bulks are still legacy platforms for both nations, and as Stalin used to say, "quantity has a quality of its own". That's not to mention that American legacy platforms are upgraded rigorously.

What's there to undertimate?

I'll reserve some other comments for when MAKS19 officially ends today. You never know of last minute surprises - although rare.

Su-57 went into the series

http://take-off.ru/item/4189-su-57-poshel-v-seriyu

ATLASCUB wrote:On the flip side there are 12 flying prototypes of the Pak-Fa. None are operationally ready. At most between 5-15 Russian pilots have ever touched its cockpit and the procurement of this craft will be a slow trickle that won't significantly alter the force projection capacity of the Russian air force for years to come.

Thus, they are not underestimating something that simply doesn't exist. The bulks are still legacy platforms for both nations, and as Stalin used to say, "quantity has a quality of its own". That's not to mention that American legacy platforms are upgraded rigorously.

What's there to undertimate?

I'll reserve some other comments for when MAKS19 officially ends today. You never know of last minute surprises - although rare.

You got the quote wrong. It was Lenin who said that "quantity has a quality all its own". And as for American legacy platforms being
rigorously upgraded, put the crack pipe down.

Go ahead, list the significant upgrades to the F-15, F-18, F-22, etc. For any avionics upgrade, there is a similar one for any of the currently
deployed Russian jets.

And once again, the 1990s and early 2000s are being used to justify BS claims as if it is some Russian fail that Russia's GDP imploded
by 50% during the 1990s and there was no money for even training flights. Start your clock form 2005 or bugger off.

The only significant upgrades F-22 have had is a bunch of them went off the assembly line straight into refit to get a slightly less out-dated processor replacement, changed the RAM covering, software upgrades that enabled new weapons & new radar modes.
They cancelled other upgrades like adding an IRST, Helmet Mounted Sight, improved datalink & actually decent processor power.

The big homecoming for the Su-57E comes with 0 export partner.

1. Blackmail and pressure works
2. CATSAA works.

The U.S has Europe, both West and East on lockdown. The Gulf countries are blackmailed, timid and will only do small buys of non-significant equipment - thus locked down. The U.S has become, on $$ terms, the biggest exporter of arms to India. They've successfully penetrated Russia's most lucrative market. If it weren't for the fact that in the segments Russia is still relevant there the U.S is completely non-competitive, it would have lost those too. That is, light firearms, tanks, air defense and subs. Even the fighter aircraft market is disputed and we know pricing isn't close between the two, with a legacy inventory favoring Russia. That's how bad it's.

The North African states who would be willing to spend some money have already done so and will not be spending any significant amount for the foreseeable future (Algeria/Egypt) - Libya was well, destroyed. Central Asian states live off Russian handouts more or less - as does Belarus and Armenia. Latin America is dead... specially after what the U.S has done to Venezuela - nobody wants a piece of that. Bolivia is peanuts.

Iran was banned from purchasing arms by a Russian signature. That worked out well.

China got its own and it's in it for intellectual property theft (engines, avionics, radars, missiles) and balancing the trade sheet. Vietnam and Indonesia are small buyers who won't be rushing to buy any time soon.

The moment the U.S ditches their little project in Syria, the moment the Turks/U.S will make up again. At most it seems, a small order of Su-35's for the outgoing F-4 Phantoms. Wild speculation.

Tough market out there. Nice flying shows tho...

PhSt wrote:

Blackmail and pressure works

Nice. perhaps Russia should start blackmailing countries into buying Russian arms or Russia will nuke them.

Perhaps.

ATLASCUB wrote:

1. Blackmail and pressure works
2. CATSAA works.

No it doesn't. It just shows how desperate and uncompetitive you really are...all the BS talk about free markets, free trade, rule of law,,,bla bla.. exposed as a giant sham for everybody to see

It was always a giant sham. Why act like it was ever anything else but just now?

In any case, it doesn't change reality. And it does work. You're contradicting yourself in that very same sentence.  A piece of paper written in the American legislature and threats do work. Obviously controlling the world's financial system and having the world's reserve currency helps.

Reality is you no longer have the economic resources to carry out megalomaniac plans...no amount of hissy fits, chest beating and whistling in the dark will change that

Welcomed change.

The nature of competition between major powers still stays the same. After all these centuries.

Chinese, India and Turkey still ignoring threats of sanctions after a s-400 purchase. Plans of Syria and Venezuela foiled. Threats working my ass.

I would probably be worried about how to improve weapons systems and bring critical thinking to the US other than teaching kids in public schools about gay history and supporting 3rd world shithole mass immigration I doubt this is going to help the US in the long run if they want to stay technologically competitive.

thegopnik wrote:Chinese, India and Turkey still ignoring threats of sanctions after a s-400 purchase. Plans of Syria and Venezuela foiled. Threats working my ass.

I would probably be worried about how to improve weapons systems and bring critical thinking to the US other than teaching kids in public schools about gay history and supporting 3rd world shithole mass immigration I doubt this is going to help the US in the long run if they want to stay technologically competitive.

The new PC totalitarianism is destroying the scientific and mathematical base in the west. Females are being promoted into key
positions because supposedly 51% should be females. Their actual merit is not considered. I know first hand that females do not
like hard mathematics and science since they dropped out quickly out of university courses in the first two years and only a few
persisted into the 3rd and 4th year. The PC "solution" is to dilute the testing (aka learning) level since naturally it must be male
"structured" testing and curriculum that is causing female students to drop out. What a freaking, retarded joke!

In fact, this PC nonsense is going overboard and if 70% females dominate a field, then that is some sort of compensation for injustices
in the past. Too bad that technological development and the economy could care less about what happened in 1850.

thanks kvs for adding this as well. There was a listing for countries that are the best for math solving problems and 1st place was Moscow state university, 2nd place MTI from the US, 3rd place China, 4th place Poland and 5th place Israel(couldn't find this source since someone posted it on 4chan awhile ago). I see eastern European names like Robert Ruszkowski being the senior designer of the F-35 and the CEO for the X-47B project(saw another eastern European last name for being the head computer programmer as well), Frank Jaworski being Raytheon's project manager and someone with a Hungarian name Sepula being the head chief for photonics research, noshir gowadia a traitor with indian origin that designed the engine of the B-2, heard there was a Chinese designer of the black widow project, etc.

Reduce or get rid of Asian/European immigration with no offense other means of mass immigration that do not support the same values as Asians/Europeans that brought them to be rich civilizations this will bring another decline other than just the educational system. Math and Science should be a must for the youth along with other subjects that will help them become productive members of society. You have people fleeing California to move to Texas because they cant deal with the taxes over there. Asian/Eastern European nations + Israel get the right idea.

ATLASCUB wrote:On the flip side there are 12 flying prototypes of the Pak-Fa. None are operationally ready. At most between 5-15 Russian pilots have ever touched its cockpit and the procurement of this craft will be a slow trickle that won't significantly alter the force projection capacity of the Russian air force for years to come.

Thus, they are not underestimating something that simply doesn't exist. The bulks are still legacy platforms for both nations, and as Stalin used to say, "quantity has a quality of its own". That's not to mention that American legacy platforms are upgraded rigorously.

Just no, the actual situation between the two air forces are absolutely not comparable:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f79/20/10/89/96/usaf_p10.gif

Actually almost all the fighters of the Usaf (USN is just different thank to the Super Hornet) were built during the two Reagan and the Bush Sr. presidency while some of the planes Russia are actually replacing were built after them.

Su-27SM purchases, as an example, began in 2004 i.e. it is a F-22 contemporary, not a legacy plane at all.

But US have already build more than 300 f-35. They are not yet combat capable but they exist and will be operational. And many more will come in the next decade.

The U.S has Europe, both West and East on lockdown.

Aw get real... Russia never had much chance of selling important stuff to the west or their new bitches in eastern europe... which is fine because it would only be pointed right back at Russia even if they did buy anything.

Turkey has been told it can't have the F-35s they bought and likely will be cut out of the programme to make them too, which means what alternatives are there for the next decade or so... Russian or Chinese.


How long before France and Germany disagree over their new 5th gen fighter and go their separate ways... same with their next gen tank...

CATSA basically is the US saying it is us or them... and so far several countries are saying mind your own fucking business.

Your comments about 76 not being very many... it is a huge number for a gas station country that doesn't make anything.

America throwing its weight around massively weakens its ties to everyone and it is only that that gives it the power it has... as countries drop the US dollar it funding will dry up and it will have to start earning money itself... which will be a serious culture shock for governments who don't understand what a balanced budget even is... now that Russia can supply decent modern equipment that will work well even against the last remaining super power America is in the shit... they might view themselves as aliens from the planet krypton here to police the world but the enemy can now buy kryptonite by the ton from Russia and they are scared.

You are right, they still have low down dirty tricks, but as they isolate themselves it is going to be harder and harder for them and soon even their bitches like the UK will turn on them... because they will have to... US dollars wont be worth the paper they are written on and the paper they will be written on had better be two ply extra absorbant considering where it will be going.

But US have already build more than 300 f-35. They are not yet combat capable but they exist and will be operational. And many more will come in the next decade.

And the absolute best US standard models with Israeli extras wont even enter Syrian airspace because they fear being shot down by Syria... they were better off with F-16s.

GarryB wrote:

So let them think the F-35 is brilliant and they only need 189 F-22s and everything is fine... let them stew in their ignorance... it is fine.

And the absolute best US standard models with Israeli extras wont even enter Syrian airspace because they fear being shot down by Syria... they were better off with F-16s.

Common give me a break... you claim 189 F-22 is not enough for Americans..
but is far better than the ZERO!!!! stealth planes that Russia have in service.
you can do better than that Garryb..  I support Russia military and hope they do
great.. but to mock the few hundreds of stealth planes Americans have..
while Russia have NONE..    Is not a serious argument. you are simply no different
that F-16 net trolls.. if you consider US airforce with 189 f-22 "not enough" versus
what Russia have..zero now and 65 in 10 years..

So lets see F-22 189 is not enough now , but 65 Su-57 in 2028 is good enough ?

and Russia only have a ~100 Su-35's still outgunned by US f-22s..
And about 200 very old migs-29 and similar number in su-27 /30 that will be no match
for F-22. or F-35..

End of story US airforce is far stronger and superior than what Russia have..
Russia could be save in mother land ,thanks to S-400s.. but in a fight in open sea ,the
Russian airforce wil be in a major one side combat ,with them losing..Those F-22 and F-35 will be snipping from distance ,see fist and hit first.. Russia airforce is the weakest part of Russia military ,,but at least Putin have very nice Olympic stadiums.. for football..

, In the future 5-10 years they have plans for 65.. stealth planes,still behind those 189.. in short Russia airforce will be in a major disadvantage vs US airforce in the middle of pacific for example.. it will be one side battle in US airforce favor..  Su-57 could end being better than F-22.. but numbers that Russia plans to have up to 2028 ,are too few --> 65,  and i don't see how 65 are better than 189 f-22s + 300 F-35. by 2028 US have plans to build twice the number they have now.. So those 65 Su-57 sukhois plane will be facing more than 600+ stealth planes.. a total rape in the ass.

Only chance Russia airforce can compete is in a preventive surprise attack .. and sink US aircraft carriers.. so they can't deploy their planes fast enough , and perhaps hit F-22s bases with hypersonic missiles ,before they take off.. but in a more or less fair fight ,it will be a one side battle in US airforce favor.

Russia has also a fair number (I believe more than 90, and receiving more) of Su-30SM (that will be further modernised), and several modern built Su-27SM3 (4++ generation). Furthermore, if needed, a large part of the about 300 su-27 in service have quite a bit of life still in them and can be modernised to a 4++ generation standard.

They are also going to order mig-35, possibly in a decent number.


What is your obsession for stealth?

F22 and F35, because of their design philosophy  priviledging too much stealth have a huge problem in mission availability, and, especially far from the US, are not able to sustain a high rate of operations compared  to F16 and F15.

Maintenance and repairing operations for f22 and F35 are also much more time consuming, so, in case of a real war, US could use them only for occasionally, having  to rely for the bulk of the operations  on their 4th generation aircrafts.

Lastly, F22 and F35 are particularly effective only when supported by a huge amount of additional assets, including AWACS.

Do you believe that in case or open war Russia  or China would not target these important  and much more visible platforms?

First russia has 6000 nuks. So no one will attack them unless if it is some small battles in isolated accidents like in Syria with turkish attack on su24. For that they need the best they have but not in huge numbers.

Second, if US is stupid enough to attack them they will loose many assests like many carriers, the small amount of B2 they have and bases around the world. That would reduce their strenght and China would take the oportunity to grab as much land as they can in the Pacific. So even if they win against Russia they will be weak and will face a more pwerfull and agressive China. This is not something they can handle.

Third, their allies are letting them alone. Against Iran only UK abd EAU are sending ships in their ops. Turkey hares them. Asian countries prefers dialogues and stong eco ties with China rather than military confrontations. Australia is doubting about US capacities ...

~100 su57 is enough. Specially for Russia who doesn't bet on air supremacy but on big land operations with its air defence denying the enemy's air force the airspace above the battles.

Vann7 wrote:[...]

Cute attempt at trolling, to one who doesn't understand that the United States is heavily out-matched in the world.

Russia only has to defend Russia. The United States has to defend military bases across the entire world. In Eurasia, the Russians outnumber the Americans, even if you count their allies (if their planes can even fly anymore).

Isos wrote:
~100 su57 is enough. Specially for Russia who doesn't bet on air supremacy but on big land operations with its air defence denying the enemy's air force the airspace above the battles.

I don't think that 100 would be enough, because it's the platform of the future and if older aircraft are phased out, you need Su-57. Around 250 Su-57 should serve RuAF well.

6000 nukes is good, but a big war without using ballistic nukes is still possible. What will happen if in the Baltic the nazi scum will treat Russians like shit and start killing them in pogroms? Will Russia just watch? And if Russia will intervene you have a war between NATO and Russia. And don't argue with suicide, because stupidity of mankind is endless and it happened so many times in history. The problem is not USA,western europe or Russia, the real problem is the insanity and stupidity of east european nationalists and NAZIs. Poland and the Baltics are playing at the moment a really bad game...and nobody knows how the future will look.

So better to have Su-57 than not! Better to have more Su-57 than less! That means not to waste money like USSR