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Log inThe droplet cooling system is an advanced cooling system for which a technology demonstator has been tested on ISS but the concept is apparently not yet mature enough to be considered for the 1st generation TEM (so they will resort to a "conventional" cooling technology using gas passed through radiator panels).
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Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4812
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GarryB- Posts : 40073
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Very simply they wanted an unlimited powerful supply of electricity on board... solar is not reliable... especially in Earth orbit when it might not see the sun half the time or even at all depending on the orbit it happens to be on.
With water droplet cooling mechanism is for cooling the nuclear reactor, and could be used on longer ranged trips to power everything on board including the ion engines that are continually boosting the speed of the spaceship.
Of course, just because it has a nuclear reactor and Ion thrusters doesn't mean it can't use a nice powerful rocket to get it going quickly...
Gravity well acceleration works best with rocket fuel....
For those who don't know what that is... if your spaceship weighs 1,000 tons if you fly towards a large mass like a moon or a planet with your rocket engines running as you fall you get extra acceleration from your enormous mass... but running your engines all the way in close to the object and then all the way away from the object like a comet coming in from deep space and going around the sun and flying off back into deep space... the difference is that you get acceleration from running your rocket and ION engines, but as you leave the massive objects gravity field because you have burned off a lot of rocket fuel the pull to slow you down when you leave is less.
Due to relatively weak rocket propulsion all the objects that have gone on deep space missions used this technique multiple times to gain the speed needed to escape the gravity well of the sun....
Obviously because it deals with gravity and mass differential it works best with a rocket motor...
With water droplet cooling mechanism is for cooling the nuclear reactor, and could be used on longer ranged trips to power everything on board including the ion engines that are continually boosting the speed of the spaceship.
Of course, just because it has a nuclear reactor and Ion thrusters doesn't mean it can't use a nice powerful rocket to get it going quickly...
Gravity well acceleration works best with rocket fuel....
For those who don't know what that is... if your spaceship weighs 1,000 tons if you fly towards a large mass like a moon or a planet with your rocket engines running as you fall you get extra acceleration from your enormous mass... but running your engines all the way in close to the object and then all the way away from the object like a comet coming in from deep space and going around the sun and flying off back into deep space... the difference is that you get acceleration from running your rocket and ION engines, but as you leave the massive objects gravity field because you have burned off a lot of rocket fuel the pull to slow you down when you leave is less.
Due to relatively weak rocket propulsion all the objects that have gone on deep space missions used this technique multiple times to gain the speed needed to escape the gravity well of the sun....
Obviously because it deals with gravity and mass differential it works best with a rocket motor...
PapaDragon- Posts : 13420
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A sad clown running a burning circus...
Cosmonauts mock Russia’s space leader on Twitter, a robot calls them drunks
“Needless to say, you can see for yourself.”
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/10/cosmonauts-mock-russias-space-leader-on-twitter-a-robot-calls-them-drunks/#p3
There's a nasty, increasingly public battle that has engulfed a handful of former cosmonauts, a robot, and the current leader of Russia's space program, Dmitry Rogozin, in controversy.
The genesis of the dispute seems to be that some former cosmonauts have begun to speak out against Rogozin's leadership of Russia's space efforts—which has at times seemed self-serving—amid the rise of competitors like SpaceX and the decline of the country's aging infrastructure.
The most outspoken critic of Rogozin and Russia's space program has been Maxim Suraev, a Russian fighter pilot who served six-month stints on the International Space Station in 2010 and 2014. After retiring from the cosmonaut corps, Suraev was elected to the State Duma, the lower house of the Russian assembly.
For reasons that are not entirely clear, Suraev's criticism of the state of the Russian space program has escalated in recent weeks. For example, one week ago he tweeted an image comparing the interior of the Russian Soyuz vehicle with that of SpaceX's Crew Dragon spacecraft, developed for NASA, with the caption, "Needless to say, you can see for yourself."
Suraev has also tweeted a short video clip of SpaceX founder Elon Musk saying, "The trampoline is working," following the successful launch of the Demo-2 mission to the International Space Station in late May. This was a mocking reference to Rogozin's insult, in 2014, of NASA after he was sanctioned by the Obama administration in the wake of the Crimea invasion. Rogozin said NASA could get to space on a trampoline if it didn't want to work with the Russian space program.
In another notable swipe on Twitter, Suraev "apologized" to Soviet hero Yuri Gagarin, the first human to go into space, while sharing a short video of NASA testing the solid rocket booster for its Space Launch System rocket. The implication was that NASA's space program is moving forward, while Roscosmos is stuck in the past.
Rogozin used to have a Twitter account—which was quite colorful and at times rather spiteful—but he deleted it earlier this year for reasons unknown. (It seems plausible that senior government officials told him to knock it off). However, after Suraev's criticism, Rogozin may have been using the Twitter account of "Fedor," a robot sent to the International Space Station in 2019, to respond.
This Twitter account was also deleted this weekend. But before the account was either deleted or banned from the social networking site, "Fedor" attacked Suraev and another astronaut he flew with, Alexander Samokutyayev, for being drunk on board the space station. These tweets are consistent with the manner in which Rogozin used the social networking site.
Samokutyayev, also a member of the Duma since his retirement as a cosmonaut, hit back on Monday, saying he was "outraged" by the accusations and that he and Suraev would investigate their origins. Rogozin has denied having anything to do with the Fedor Twitter account, but he also said perhaps the robot was really tweeting on its own.
If all of this doesn't make much sense, welcome to Russia's space industry under the leadership of Rogozin. Independent Russian space analysts warn the program is slipping into the "Dark Ages" under mismanagement, and Rogozin has been accused of enriching himself at Roscosmos' expense. The global space industry would be better off with a better-led Russian space program.
The last line says it all really, even US fanboys are no longer amused with this pathetic shitshow...
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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So you get your news from arstechnica and other US based publications rather than Russian about Russia?
Good to know. So we can use same sources against Serbia.
BTW, sure sounds like the others are butthurt cause Russia is still sending stuff to space (US Media).
Comparing it to a private company is a joke. What's even more of a joke is it sounds like former cosmonaut is either paid off or simply trolling if he is insulting former cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin by posting image of a NASA rocket. Cause that clearly is fucking smart.
Can't make everyone happy.
Serious question - why change something that has worked for so long? If the spacecraft works? Federation was in development but who knows.
Roscosmos has already laid out its plans. Federation (2024/6), Soyuz 6, Angara, etc. It isn't like they sit idle. Plus a major development is the new space center and localization of the major research and development houses in one area.
Sounds like others are trying to get political and see if they themselves get to replace Rogozin by attacking him. Yeah, he should keep his mouth shut like Trump, but so far he has now (guess he has no choice).
Good to know. So we can use same sources against Serbia.
BTW, sure sounds like the others are butthurt cause Russia is still sending stuff to space (US Media).
Comparing it to a private company is a joke. What's even more of a joke is it sounds like former cosmonaut is either paid off or simply trolling if he is insulting former cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin by posting image of a NASA rocket. Cause that clearly is fucking smart.
Can't make everyone happy.
Serious question - why change something that has worked for so long? If the spacecraft works? Federation was in development but who knows.
Roscosmos has already laid out its plans. Federation (2024/6), Soyuz 6, Angara, etc. It isn't like they sit idle. Plus a major development is the new space center and localization of the major research and development houses in one area.
Sounds like others are trying to get political and see if they themselves get to replace Rogozin by attacking him. Yeah, he should keep his mouth shut like Trump, but so far he has now (guess he has no choice).
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kvs- Posts : 15635
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Anyone touting Space X is a certifiable autistic. Musk's fanbois think his tin foil water cistern "Mars" rockets are real and not garbage.
Funny how some company that basically got NASA's tech for free is "leading edge" after it basically deploys this tech over a 20 year
period. Given all the tens of billions in subsidies to Space X it better deliver what minimum it has. But it does not follow that
it will be an interplanetary spacecraft leader. It never got any such tech and it really shows.
Funny how some company that basically got NASA's tech for free is "leading edge" after it basically deploys this tech over a 20 year
period. Given all the tens of billions in subsidies to Space X it better deliver what minimum it has. But it does not follow that
it will be an interplanetary spacecraft leader. It never got any such tech and it really shows.
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GarryB- Posts : 40073
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The best source of reliable information is from an opposition politician... I rather suspect this guy wants the job of fixing everything.
Musk had US subsidies and money thrown at him, but why would Russia waste money making the inside of their space vehicles look pretty?
You can bitch about trampoline and how out of date their rocket interiors look for for quite a while the US bought tickets to fly on them because they had no alternative... due to bad planning but not poor funding because they don't suffer from the latter...
Musk had US subsidies and money thrown at him, but why would Russia waste money making the inside of their space vehicles look pretty?
You can bitch about trampoline and how out of date their rocket interiors look for for quite a while the US bought tickets to fly on them because they had no alternative... due to bad planning but not poor funding because they don't suffer from the latter...
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miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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- Post n°357
Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3
miketheterrible Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:27 pm
Prior to Rogozin, they were sitting with just Proton and Soyuz and problems with Vostochney. Now they have more or less gotten a handle on Vostochney issue, building or planned of Soyuz 6, and other rockets, and a new space craft Federation. Only issue is Rogozins mouth.
Roscosmos has a lot changing actually. Like I said, new space center outside of Moscow which is also acting as a Technopark.
Roscosmos has a lot changing actually. Like I said, new space center outside of Moscow which is also acting as a Technopark.
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4812
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arstechnica ?? GTF outta here.
Damn but you talk shit sometimes. That shit website caters for Murican flag-waving Russophobe dickheads - just read the comment section to understand who their target audience is.
What decline? Vostochny is brand new, Plesetsk is military-run and doesn't struggle for coin, and Baikonour is owned by the Kazakhs (who seem to be allergic to the concept of spending money on the upkeep of facilities, but that's not Russias problem or fault).
As for the BS from Suraev, it just proves that when ex-Cosmonauts become politicians they are not above acting just as stupid and venal as any other idiot.
Big deal if manned Dragon interior (and their stupid "space suits") all look like they been designed by some Italian faggot. Function trumps appearance and apparently the Dragon capsule suffered extensive damage on re-entry that was unexpected, so maybe the stark and utilitarian Soyuz is still technically a superior and more reliable workhorse. Musk has one mission under his belt. I'll congratulate him in 20 twenty years if he manages to avoid a fatal accident during that time, otherwise colour me unimpressed that he's repeated a capability that the US had with Apollo some 50+ years ago.
BTW wasn't Rogozins twitter account closed by the Twitterati as a result of some sanctions-related nonsense? Not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Finally this POS:
Wow.. a Murican tech website for idiots shitcans the Russian space program and we are supposed to think this is an authoritative put-down of both Rogozin as a manager, and Russia as a space-faring nation???? Rogozin is "enriching himself"??? GTF outta here (again). That is sheer BS, on a par with "Putins stolen billions", and you're a friggin idiot for buying into this crap.
Damn but you talk shit sometimes. That shit website caters for Murican flag-waving Russophobe dickheads - just read the comment section to understand who their target audience is.
amid the rise of competitors like SpaceX and the decline of the country's aging infrastructure
What decline? Vostochny is brand new, Plesetsk is military-run and doesn't struggle for coin, and Baikonour is owned by the Kazakhs (who seem to be allergic to the concept of spending money on the upkeep of facilities, but that's not Russias problem or fault).
As for the BS from Suraev, it just proves that when ex-Cosmonauts become politicians they are not above acting just as stupid and venal as any other idiot.
Big deal if manned Dragon interior (and their stupid "space suits") all look like they been designed by some Italian faggot. Function trumps appearance and apparently the Dragon capsule suffered extensive damage on re-entry that was unexpected, so maybe the stark and utilitarian Soyuz is still technically a superior and more reliable workhorse. Musk has one mission under his belt. I'll congratulate him in 20 twenty years if he manages to avoid a fatal accident during that time, otherwise colour me unimpressed that he's repeated a capability that the US had with Apollo some 50+ years ago.
BTW wasn't Rogozins twitter account closed by the Twitterati as a result of some sanctions-related nonsense? Not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Finally this POS:
Independent Russian space analysts warn the program is slipping into the "Dark Ages" under mismanagement, and Rogozin has been accused of enriching himself at Roscosmos' expense. The global space industry would be better off with a better-led Russian space program.
Wow.. a Murican tech website for idiots shitcans the Russian space program and we are supposed to think this is an authoritative put-down of both Rogozin as a manager, and Russia as a space-faring nation???? Rogozin is "enriching himself"??? GTF outta here (again). That is sheer BS, on a par with "Putins stolen billions", and you're a friggin idiot for buying into this crap.
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4812
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miketheterrible wrote:Prior to Rogozin, they were sitting with just Proton and Soyuz and problems with Vostochney. Now they have more or less gotten a handle on Vostochney issue, building or planned of Soyuz 6, and other rockets, and a new space craft Federation. Only issue is Rogozins mouth.
Roscosmos has a lot changing actually. Like I said, new space center outside of Moscow which is also acting as a Technopark.
When people are deeply invested in a particular narrative, they become unable to effectively process any facts that undermine their cherished preferences. PD proves this on a regular basis whenever his pet hate is discussed. Sheesshh.. did Rogozin run over his dog or something?
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kvs- Posts : 15635
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Big_Gazza wrote:miketheterrible wrote:Prior to Rogozin, they were sitting with just Proton and Soyuz and problems with Vostochney. Now they have more or less gotten a handle on Vostochney issue, building or planned of Soyuz 6, and other rockets, and a new space craft Federation. Only issue is Rogozins mouth.
Roscosmos has a lot changing actually. Like I said, new space center outside of Moscow which is also acting as a Technopark.
When people are deeply invested in a particular narrative, they become unable to effectively process any facts that undermine their cherished preferences. PD proves this on a regular basis whenever his pet hate is discussed. Sheesshh.. did Rogozin run over his dog or something?
His pollution of this forum is based on pure vicarious achievement. Space X is not a Serbian company working from Serbia. It's a crappy American grifter
operation and its "advancements" are ho hum. This includes the Armani "spacesuits" which clearly cannot be used for space-walks. They are a pure movie prop.
And Russia is supposed to be bowing in awe at this trash.
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kvs- Posts : 15635
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miketheterrible wrote:Prior to Rogozin, they were sitting with just Proton and Soyuz and problems with Vostochney. Now they have more or less gotten a handle on Vostochney issue, building or planned of Soyuz 6, and other rockets, and a new space craft Federation. Only issue is Rogozins mouth.
Roscosmos has a lot changing actually. Like I said, new space center outside of Moscow which is also acting as a Technopark.
Even with the rotten contractor problems, Vostochny has been built for less money than any similar scale and complexity facility in the precious west.
America can't even build high speed rail in California because magically the contractors run out of money. To the average moron this may sound
plausible, but for people with a clue about project planning it is a transparent attempt to cover up massive corruption. The ultimate budget
can be planned to within 90% easily and construction contracts are supposed to specify the exact prices to be paid for everything. There is
nothing about California that would result in total surprises about the construction environment. It's not like some parts of Russia where
there are subsurface "lakes" that can sink infrastructure or its vast permafrost zone that makes construction of railways a serious challenge.
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George1- Posts : 18461
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Soyuz MS-16 reentry vehicle with three crew members onboard lands in Kazakhstan
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LMFS- Posts : 5119
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The court arrested the head of the Vostochny space center Bobkov in the case of abuse of power
https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp%3Frid%3D1%26nid%3D540516%26lang%3DRU
https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp%3Frid%3D1%26nid%3D540516%26lang%3DRU
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4812
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LMFS wrote:The court arrested the head of the Vostochny space center Bobkov in the case of abuse of power
https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp%3Frid%3D1%26nid%3D540516%26lang%3DRU
Good. Find these dirty corrupt bastards and throw the book at them. The bigger they are, the harder they must fall. Oh, and make sure they are stripped of their assets to compensate the state/public.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13420
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Big_Gazza wrote:...Good. Find these dirty corrupt bastards and throw the book at them. The bigger they are, the harder they must fall. Oh, and make sure they are stripped of their assets to compensate the state/public.
Amen to that!
And remember to start from the very top and work your way down
kvs- Posts : 15635
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LMFS wrote:The court arrested the head of the Vostochny space center Bobkov in the case of abuse of power
https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp%3Frid%3D1%26nid%3D540516%26lang%3DRU
This is what gives Russia bad PR. The exposure and elimination of rot. In the west they figured out that they can
look squeaky clean and "best in the world" by hiding such rot or legalizing it.
Following the western playbook, this clown should have retired and quietly forked over whatever money was left
in exchange for a slap on the wrist. If he is connected to powerful elements, then he does not even get a slap
on the wrist. None of this is even raided in the fake stream media which focuses the attention of the proles on
"Russian election meddling" or some other chimp shit.
But the real trick with western "squeaky clean" management is that every big boss makes super big money that
is pure legalized corruption. So there is no point even violating the law if you make out like a bank robber anyway.
In Russia, they are under the delusion that managers should get sane salaries.
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miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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- Post n°367
Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3
miketheterrible Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:56 am
Well, in the end, it's good. Cause it prevents over inflated prices and sends those responsible to jail. While it should be a reminder to all you are not an untouchable.
kvs- Posts : 15635
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miketheterrible wrote:Well, in the end, it's good. Cause it prevents over inflated prices and sends those responsible to jail. While it should be a reminder to all you are not an untouchable.
I agree. Authorities doing their jobs catching crooks is the right approach, acting as their roof is grotesque.
One of the reasons the US has an income distribution that would put any banana republic to shame is because it legalized
all the rot. CEOs rake in bonuses even if the company is sinking in red. This is not normal. And something that
should be remembered when the NATzO sycophants bleat about Russian not being a "normal" country.
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I think you said you are in Ontario so you may not know this story but here in Alberta, we have a perfect example - the privatization of Enmax Energy.
A few years ago, Enmax was owned by the province. It was one of the main suppliers of our energy. It was paid for not only by us tax payers twice (tax money as well as paying for its service, admin fees, ect) but also given constant bailout money to fund projects like energy station at US/AB border. Anyway, what was promised to high heaven for its partial (half) privatization, was lower prices and removal of admin charges. I warned people at work and such that it was not only a bad idea, they wouldn't follow through with any of their claims.
Low and behold, that year (three months later?), After partial privatization, they had the most expensive Christmas party in companies history (something around $5M that year), they also have out somewhere around $10M in golden parachute payments to a couple of CEO's.
So what they did? Jack up prices for gas/electricity and also up admin fees.
So we switched to direct energy which didn't have admin fees or other additional costs, and it's rates were cheaper.
A few years ago, Enmax was owned by the province. It was one of the main suppliers of our energy. It was paid for not only by us tax payers twice (tax money as well as paying for its service, admin fees, ect) but also given constant bailout money to fund projects like energy station at US/AB border. Anyway, what was promised to high heaven for its partial (half) privatization, was lower prices and removal of admin charges. I warned people at work and such that it was not only a bad idea, they wouldn't follow through with any of their claims.
Low and behold, that year (three months later?), After partial privatization, they had the most expensive Christmas party in companies history (something around $5M that year), they also have out somewhere around $10M in golden parachute payments to a couple of CEO's.
So what they did? Jack up prices for gas/electricity and also up admin fees.
So we switched to direct energy which didn't have admin fees or other additional costs, and it's rates were cheaper.
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Russia to launch Nauka research module to orbital outpost in April 2021
https://tass.com/science/1219229
https://tass.com/science/1219229
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PapaDragon wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:PapaDragon wrote:Well that was the whole purpose of those camerasSeigSoloyvov wrote:...Right....You know I remember when Putin put up those live video feeds during an election where you could literally watch people stuffing ballots into the box after voting hours when the stations where closed....
Sure and I doubt Putin would have lost anyway, but sitting there pretending Russia doesn't have its own fair share of voter Fraud is moronic
I doubt anyone said that there wasn't any voter fraud
There is always something funky, it's the human naturefranco wrote:...Yes but deflecting from the serious issues that America has in it's system towards others prevents fixing the system... that should be your priority.
Exactly
This reminds me of all those arguments about Roskosmos where people try to justify their fuckups by pointing at something that SpaceX did wrong
Other people's failures are no excuse for your own
It goes for everything regardless if it's space programme or elections or anything else
Obvious fact is that USA has problem with shoddy voting system and election theft, they need to fix it before it gets even worse instead of ignoring it (and it got this bad in the first place because they were ignoring it for so long thinking it's the perfect infallible system, nothing is perfect)
Give one example of a real fuckup by Roscosmos, sunshine. I dare you.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13420
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kvs wrote:Give one example of a real fuckup by Roscosmos, sunshine. I dare you.
Phobos Grunt, Angosat and fuckton of Proton launches
And if you want to do this dance again take it to space tread
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kvs- Posts : 15635
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PapaDragon wrote:kvs wrote:Give one example of a real fuckup by Roscosmos, sunshine. I dare you.
Phobos Grunt, Angosat and fuckton of Proton launches
And if you want to do this dance again take it to space tread
Hilarious, delusional BS, sunshine.
1) Phobos Grunt was one of the technical failures that you will get with any sort of such activity. Calling it a fuckup is
for morons like you. Is Columbia a fuckup? How about the US Mars mission where they used inches instead of centimeters
causing terminal impact with the surface?
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-oct-01-mn-17288-story.html
2) Angosat is yet another technical failure which happens to all countries that engage in satellite activity.
But for internet experts of your sort it is proof of Russian failure. You are an ignorant pinhead who thinks that
it is physically possible to have an incident free activity involving complex machinery, electronics, programming and
process procedures. I guess you think that you could produce computer code without any bugs without trying.
3) Proton launches: you are showing your credentials as a BS artist. You obviously refer to the one spectacular
"failure" where the a key sensor was deliberately hammered upside down. In your Russia hating dictionary the word
sabotage and the concept of personal responsibility do not exist. Why is the obvious sabotage of some clown a
Roscomos fuckup, numbskull. I know your pre-teen response: because every part of the rocket is checked in detail
after it is assembled...
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Fuck ups exist. I rather these fuckups happen with a satellite and or lander, than it does with people onboard
*Cough* challenger *cough*
*Cough* challenger *cough*
kvs- Posts : 15635
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miketheterrible wrote:Fuck ups exist. I rather these fuckups happen with a satellite and or lander, than it does with people onboard
*Cough* challenger *cough*
Calling accidents "fuckups" is tendentious BS. It shows malice.
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