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NASA is crawling back to Russia because Musk can not send enough Muskonauts to the ISS in his death traps. Or maybe the murican astronauts are refusing to be used as lab rats.
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47 posters
Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3
Hole- Posts : 11097
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kvs
kvs- Posts : 15808
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Hole wrote:NASA is crawling back to Russia because Musk can not send enough Muskonauts to the ISS in his death traps. Or maybe the murican astronauts are refusing to be used as lab rats.
Most likely the latter. People with a clue would not risk dying in some Armani space suit to give conman Musk photo-ops.
kvs- Posts : 15808
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Russia and China have signed an agreement (MOU) for construction of a base on the Moon.
Meanwhile "wunderkind" Musk is twattering about developing an anti-matter rocket engine.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13455
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I'm sure that the memorandum will be amazing
Maybe Chinese will break out the fancy paper?
Will Trampoline Man be putting X on the signature or will he do the fancy fingerprint move?
It's special occasion after all
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4851
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kvs wrote:Hole wrote:NASA is crawling back to Russia because Musk can not send enough Muskonauts to the ISS in his death traps. Or maybe the murican astronauts are refusing to be used as lab rats.
Most likely the latter. People with a clue would not risk dying in some Armani space suit to give conman Musk photo-ops.
More likely they don't want to have to board the vehicle while it is in the process of fuelling? Memories of the AMOS-6 launch pad explosion in 2016 during fuelling when a helium bottle exploded?
Maybe they don't want to fly in a capsule that has previously exploded during tests in 2019 of the emerg escape rockets on a recovered capsule? The finding was a propellent leak caused the incident, but what corrective measures were taken and how effective will they be? A failure of this magnitude (that would have killed the entire crew) should have mandated a full design review and additional safeguards followed by several tests, but it all seems to have been swept under the mat in a bipartisan desire to accelerate progress (for political and ideological purposes).
I have long suspected that NASA has been forced to down-grade their safety protocols to permit Musks rockets and capsules to be used, and I have seen nothing to make me change my mind. Musks serial flying/exploding silos only reinforce my doubts...
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4851
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kvs wrote:Meanwhile "wunderkind" Musk is twattering about developing an anti-matter rocket engine.
LOL!! Thats just so epically Muskian... Antimatter? /chortle /scoff
What a friggin con-man...
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Vann7- Posts : 5385
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Hole wrote:NASA is crawling back to Russia because Musk can not send enough Muskonauts to the ISS in his death traps. Or maybe the murican astronauts are refusing to be used as lab rats.
perhaps..
or it could be because the timing is not right , and another spaceX failure ,and now with humans ,could be fatal for their entire space program and they likely will like to regroup and re-check all their
space rockets to make sure they will be ready for the job and so this will take months them in revising
all their rocket program. This is a cautious move , and Russia did the same when their progress exploded , they paused for months their rockets program to re-check all their production and quality controls and make sure it was all right .
Russia needs to speed up their space program and not allow NASA to recover their pace in space.
and invest heavily in their space program . There will be no reward and no fame or glory for the second best or third best in space.
Russia and China have signed an agreement (MOU) for construction of a base on the Moon.
indeed and in the year 2050 or 2035 , and by the time they do that it will not matter at all if US do it first. it will be the west that will take all the credit and all the investment and scientific talent .
kvs- Posts : 15808
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It's not perhaps, you moron. It is a cold, hard fact.
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Vann7- Posts : 5385
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kvs wrote:It's not perhaps, you moron. It is a cold, hard fact.
perhaps.. but the moron king , the biggest failure and most incompetent president
ever in the history of Russia is none less than your hero , the master chief fool vladimir putin. It is
thanks to him that Russia is an outdated country and so disrespected in the world . Because of
that dumb president , that that is incredibly incompetent , insecure and weak. And you all will be
cursing him ,when that imbecile cause the destruction of Russia. it will be worse than soviet union the collapse if that moron allowed to continue in power in Russia.
Meanwhile while putin brags about Russia agriculture and banana records that nobody fucking care ,
China is making world headlines ,stealing the show of NASA mars mission with their own one , that
sent to mars an orbiter ,taking the most detailed ultra high resolutions images ever in color of mars ,
and soon in a couple of months , the lander phase will start ,with the first ever rover of china in mars .
something that not even soviet union could do and NASA claims they doing . So whatever is the true , China is now officially either the first nation or the second one to send a rover to mars and Putin's the biggest disgrace for Russia space program ,that by the time that moron send any mission beyond earth orbit ,it will be too little and too late and nobody will give a shit ,when everyone else is dominating in space exploration missions.
Enjoy the images of a nation with true leadership in space doing what Russia should have been doing ,but don't do ,because of their miserable incompetent and outdated president.
China is making history while Putin busy ,making sure ,Russia is a more irrelevant nation in space than ever .
China will beat NASA in their space race and send humans first ,while your hero ,putin ,will continue sinking Russia into the biggest waste of a country of its engineering and scientific talent. Will not surprise me if more Russian cosmonaut defect from Russia space program.. but also its engineers too and look for a job position at China space program or NASA . That will be actually a good thing to happen, to finally expose the disaster that is Putin's development of Russia ,as a modern nation.
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4851
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As much as I value interplanetary exploration (and I've been a space exploration buff since 1976 and the Viking 1&2 landings on Mars), I recognise that you cant eat pictures from Mars, and they won't keep you warm, or your kids clothed. Mars has been thoroughly mapped by the US, so what is to be gained in a real practocal sense?
Sweet fuck-all.
I'd rather Putin focus on rebuilding Russias practical space-based capabilities than send robots to places that have already been explored. In fact, I'd rather he spend his efforts repairing the catastrophic damage of the USSRs collapse, the Yeltsin-era Oligarch decade of collapse and rape, and to rebuild Russia's economy so she can extend a raised index finger to the US and their feckless Eurofaggot satrapies and tell them to shove their "exceptionalism" where the sun doesn't shine.
Where Russia has spent cash on space science they have focused on areas that are not yet explored, where their efforts can actually add to the sum of human knowledge, not just replicate what others have done before. Spectkr-R and Spektr-RG come to mind - world class missions that eclipsed what came before. Spectr-M and UV will push the envelope as well. The new Luna misions are eminantly sensible given the global rekindling in interest in the Moon.
I don't criticise China BTW in their efforts. Seeing a Communist non-Western non-Causcaisan power landing a rover on Mars (before the Eurofaggots) will be a great political statement and well worth pursuing. Given that China is working to bruise the exceptionalists ego, I see no piit to Russia spending its science cash to replicate their efforts.
Final point: I'm becoming more convinced each day that vann7 lives in Lvov. Its the only plausible answer to why he pukes his endless hatred of Putin and all things Putinesque. I doubt that even Azov's PR officers could be this dedicated to shitting Russia and her achievements.
Sweet fuck-all.
I'd rather Putin focus on rebuilding Russias practical space-based capabilities than send robots to places that have already been explored. In fact, I'd rather he spend his efforts repairing the catastrophic damage of the USSRs collapse, the Yeltsin-era Oligarch decade of collapse and rape, and to rebuild Russia's economy so she can extend a raised index finger to the US and their feckless Eurofaggot satrapies and tell them to shove their "exceptionalism" where the sun doesn't shine.
Where Russia has spent cash on space science they have focused on areas that are not yet explored, where their efforts can actually add to the sum of human knowledge, not just replicate what others have done before. Spectkr-R and Spektr-RG come to mind - world class missions that eclipsed what came before. Spectr-M and UV will push the envelope as well. The new Luna misions are eminantly sensible given the global rekindling in interest in the Moon.
I don't criticise China BTW in their efforts. Seeing a Communist non-Western non-Causcaisan power landing a rover on Mars (before the Eurofaggots) will be a great political statement and well worth pursuing. Given that China is working to bruise the exceptionalists ego, I see no piit to Russia spending its science cash to replicate their efforts.
Final point: I'm becoming more convinced each day that vann7 lives in Lvov. Its the only plausible answer to why he pukes his endless hatred of Putin and all things Putinesque. I doubt that even Azov's PR officers could be this dedicated to shitting Russia and her achievements.
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Tingsay- Posts : 183
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Yep, vann7 just made me realize just how overrated space can really be.
Did the moon landing stop global warming? No
Did it cure Cancer? No
Eliminate poverty? No
Did USSR's first satellite in space prevent it's collapse? Lol no
Did Yuri gagarin's first man in space achievement made Western Dorks move over to Russia's sphere of influence? haha no
Did Laika's achievement make the West respect the Soviets and start moving over to Soviet High-tech BizNiZ? ahahahaha
Ironically, the thing that a lot of space enthusiasts look down on, Low-Earth Orbit is at the moment really the only part of space that has a tangible economic and practical impact on the land dwelling creatures known as Humans.
Did the moon landing stop global warming? No
Did it cure Cancer? No
Eliminate poverty? No
Did USSR's first satellite in space prevent it's collapse? Lol no
Did Yuri gagarin's first man in space achievement made Western Dorks move over to Russia's sphere of influence? haha no
Did Laika's achievement make the West respect the Soviets and start moving over to Soviet High-tech BizNiZ? ahahahaha
Ironically, the thing that a lot of space enthusiasts look down on, Low-Earth Orbit is at the moment really the only part of space that has a tangible economic and practical impact on the land dwelling creatures known as Humans.
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kvs- Posts : 15808
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Tingsay wrote:Yep, vann7 just made me realize just how overrated space can really be.
Did the moon landing stop global warming? No
Did it cure Cancer? No
Eliminate poverty? No
Did USSR's first satellite in space prevent it's collapse? Lol no
Did Yuri gagarin's first man in space achievement made Western Dorks move over to Russia's sphere of influence? haha no
Did Laika's achievement make the West respect the Soviets and start moving over to Soviet High-tech BizNiZ? ahahahaha
Ironically, the thing that a lot of space enthusiasts look down on, Low-Earth Orbit is at the moment really the only part of space that has a tangible economic and practical impact on the land dwelling creatures known as Humans.
Geo-stationary orbits are actually valuable too. That is where the key weather and communications satellites sit and Russia is finally trying to move
into this market.
As for the western obsession with Mars, it is idiotic. Mars is cast like some second Earth. It is a glorified moon. One third the gravity of Earth and
12% of its volume. It has also bled off most of its water to space thanks to the fact that its gravity is too low to stop thermal escape at the
high altitudes. Much like the Earth has bled off most of its Helium to space because it is so light (the lighter hydrogen comes from the breakdown
of H2O). Sure there is some water left, but there is more under the Sahara per square meter.
In terms of practical technology, people should not be so dismissive of "blue sky" science. This the routine brain fail of right wing zealots who think
that science is all commie waste and corporate profits are holy. Primary science really does "trickle down" into practical technology even if various
clowns think that such technology germinates inside snot-nosed teenage "entrepreneur" garages.
So sending planetary atmosphere observation missions is worth something since it improves the technology for both civilian and military spectral
sensors on Earth. The same tech also applies works to observe the Earth's atmosphere. But even the Mars rovers have value since they facilitate
the development of robotics and "AI" to drive said robotics. That is why the US is doing these missions in my opinion.
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GarryB- Posts : 40415
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or it could be because the timing is not right , and another spaceX failure ,and now with humans ,could be fatal for their entire space program and they likely will like to regroup and re-check all their
Yeah, you seem all choked up about the potential people killed in Americas PR bullshit pissing around.... but now that NASA is raising prices to actual cost a lot of business that Musk took from the Russians will likely head straight back so this has all been a complete waste of time and money.... though so far not of human lives. His management prowess makes me wonder how much longer that will be though.
Human exploration and operations on the Moon and on Mars and further afield is useful to humanity because it is all about efficiency and reuse... on earth we have an abundance of energy and resources and food and air that we are horribly wasteful. On the moon or Mars or in space that is not an option and new technology and materials to improve efficiency and to remove pollution from the air we have to breathe and dangerous chemicals from the water we drink will be useful for cleaning things up here on earth.
I suspect the more we look around this universe hopefully the more we will appreciate where we came from and maybe look after it a bit better because right now there is no plan B. If suddenly 1,000 trillion tons of Methane is released into earths atmosphere by melting tundra in Siberia and the far north of Canada and the temperature goes up 10 degrees C then serious and probably irreversible changes might do rather more damage in a year than Covid has managed.... but if the Covid situation is anything to go by the west will spend most of its energy trying to prove it was all Chinas fault or all Russias fault or perhaps it is something Iran or North Korea did...
The Muppets in power in the west are useless, and the rest of the world has been sidelined by the west so there is probably little they could do anyway...
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https://www.roscosmos.ru/30365/
Roscosmos cosmonaut Anna Kikina became the prototype for Barbie doll
The most popular doll in the world continues to inspire girls to their wildest dreams and clearly shows that each of them can become whoever they want! Barbie presents a doll, which this time embodied the image of Anna Kikina - the only woman in the Roscosmos cosmonaut corps.
Who said that conquering the vastness of the Universe is not a woman's business? This year marks 60 years since the day when man first flew into space. On the eve of the big date and as part of the “You Can Be Whoever You Want” campaign, Barbie reminds us that any dream can come true - you just need to believe in yourself and move forward.
A striking example of this is the story of Anna Kikina, an engineer girl who once dared to take a bold step and try her hand at astronautics. Today Anna is a role model for many: she is both strong and feminine, bold and gentle, wise and with an excellent sense of humor - a bright personality in which professionalism and warmth are harmoniously combined.
The Barbie cosmonaut doll is produced exclusively in the image of Anna Kikina in two versions of costumes: in a training suit and an Orlan-type space suit. The doll is presented in a single version and is not intended for sale. It was not by chance that the Barbie brand chose Anna Kikina as a role model - the girl inspired him with her talents, success and personal qualities. By the example of Anna and other outstanding women, role models, Barbie shows that girls can become whoever they want.
“As a child, I had no dream of becoming an astronaut. But if I had a Barbie astronaut doll, then the idea of becoming an astronaut would probably have arisen in my head even then, - says Anna Kikina in her interview. - The Barbie-cosmonaut in his way not only demonstrates to the child the profession, but also gives the understanding that everyone who does not miss it and will prepare for the implementation of their ideas has a chance to become an astronaut. It is not necessary that every girl playing with such a Barbie wants to become an astronaut. The most important thing is that they all know that they have a choice, they have the right to choose - any profession that they like. "
Barbie Astronaut is a doll with a story. In 1963, Valentina Tereshkova became the first woman in the world to be in space, and two years later the first Barbie cosmonaut was dedicated to her flight. The new Barbie continues the mission of its predecessor and aims to inspire girls around the world to reach their potential. She teaches you to believe in yourself, expand your boundaries and not be afraid to seek your calling. Barbie has already mastered over 200 professions, including a doctor, pilot, electric train driver, and even a presidential candidate.
Barbie teaches girls that the main beauty and strength of a woman is not only appearance, but also the inner core, knowledge, self-sufficiency, combined with the ability to overcome any obstacles on the way to dreams and self-realization. Barbie dolls have long ceased to be just toys. Today it is a symbol of inner strength and self-confidence, inspiring girls around the world to reveal their limitless potential. From princess to president, from doctor to subway driver, from zoologist to astronaut - in the You Can Be Whoever You Want program, Barbie embraces a more progressive view of society, where a new generation of girls can choose any profession and develop into any area.
lancelot- Posts : 3113
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None of what was used in the Apollo missions was used later.
None of the engines, none of the launchers, none of the capsules, nothing. It was just a tremendous waste of money to get a couple of Moon rocks.
None of the engines, none of the launchers, none of the capsules, nothing. It was just a tremendous waste of money to get a couple of Moon rocks.
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kvs- Posts : 15808
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lancelot wrote:None of what was used in the Apollo missions was used later.
None of the engines, none of the launchers, none of the capsules, nothing. It was just a tremendous waste of money to get a couple of Moon rocks.
Every rocket program has been afflicted with this disease. Russia has been trying hard over the last 10+ years (but the concept goes back decades) to
introduce "mass" production economies of scale with the Angara rocket. It is an assembly line for identical URM components which are then packaged into
different payload lifting configurations.
The USSR could have gone down the URM route in the early 1960s, but the same red director personality conflicts that led to the N1 farce stopped this
from happening. The US could have pushed the URM approach given its supposed care for costs, but clearly it was engaged in the national prestige
no costs spared approach.
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limb- Posts : 1550
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How do you combat the claim that SpaceX has world's best rocket engines.
There are dozens of videos like this extolling the merlin and raptor as the future of rocket engine design. I see cold hard numbers that the RD-180 has pretty pathetic TW ratio compared to spacex engines.
There are dozens of videos like this extolling the merlin and raptor as the future of rocket engine design. I see cold hard numbers that the RD-180 has pretty pathetic TW ratio compared to spacex engines.
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owais.usmani wrote:https://www.roscosmos.ru/30365/
...Roscosmos cosmonaut Anna Kikina became the prototype for Barbie doll
Some positive PR never hurts, hopefully they send it to production instead of remaining just a collectable because it looks pretty damn cool:
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limb wrote:How do you combat the claim that SpaceX has world's best rocket engines.
There are dozens of videos like this extolling the merlin and raptor as the future of rocket engine design. I see cold hard numbers that the RD-180 has pretty pathetic TW ratio compared to spacex engines.
I'm not wasting effort on debunking the fuktarded nonsense from Musks fan-boi arse-lickers. SpaceX have nothing they can teach Russian rocket engine builders.
Edit: On second thoughts, I can't let this Space-ex shit fuckery lie unchallenged...
Focusing on TW ratio is pointless. Isp is far more important and RD series engines shit all over the Merlins. RD series are more efficient at extracting energy from a unit mass of propellent as they are closed-cycle engines while Merlins are just simple gas generators. The cost is a heavier engine to accomodate the additional turbine stages and extra piping.
Raptor is a better engine of course, but its not revolutionary, despite the yabbering of the Musk junkies. Given that one engine failed to restart on flying-garbage can SN8 I think we can say that it ain't living up to its grossly-inflated reputation. The sensible thing to do would be to withhold judgement until Russia has its own reuseable methane engine so taht we can compare specifications and service history. Until then, spruking for Raptor is just a load of frenzied self-congratulatory masturbation.
Last edited by Big_Gazza on Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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limb wrote:How do you combat the claim that SpaceX has world's best rocket engines.
There are dozens of videos like this extolling the merlin and raptor as the future of rocket engine design. I see cold hard numbers that the RD-180 has pretty pathetic TW ratio compared to spacex engines.
Thrust to weight is a fanboi masturbatory irrelevance. The Isp is all that matters. Isp directly affects the size of your fuel tanks. T/W is not in the same
city let alone the same ballpark.
The engine in any rocket is a very small part of the mass of the rocket which is mostly fuel.
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kvs- Posts : 15808
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Big_Gazza wrote:
I'm not wasting effort on debunking the fuktarded nonsense from Musks fan-boi arse-lickers. SpaceX have nothing they can teach Russian rocket engine builders.
The usual barely educated Dunning-Kruger "experts" who know better.
Even Wikicrappia gets it right:
The most important metric for the efficiency of a rocket engine is impulse per unit of propellant, this is called specific impulse (usually written I s p {\displaystyle I_{sp}} I_{sp}). This is either measured as a speed (the effective exhaust velocity v e {\displaystyle v_{e}} v_{e} in metres/second or ft/s) or as a time (seconds). For example, if an engine producing 100 pounds of thrust runs for 320 seconds and burns 100 pounds of propellant, then the specific impulse is 320 seconds. The higher the specific impulse, the less propellant is required to provide the desired impulse.
The specific impulse that can be achieved is primarily a function of the propellant mix (and ultimately would limit the specific impulse), but practical limits on chamber pressures and the nozzle expansion ratios reduce the performance that can be achieved.
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limb- Posts : 1550
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kvs wrote:limb wrote:How do you combat the claim that SpaceX has world's best rocket engines.
There are dozens of videos like this extolling the merlin and raptor as the future of rocket engine design. I see cold hard numbers that the RD-180 has pretty pathetic TW ratio compared to spacex engines.
Thrust to weight is a fanboi masturbatory irrelevance. The Isp is all that matters. Isp directly affects the size of your fuel tanks. T/W is not in the same
city let alone the same ballpark.
The engine in any rocket is a very small part of the mass of the rocket which is mostly fuel.
The raptor still has more isp than the RD-180.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Raptor
Musk's claims are being passed off as established fact.
Isp (vac.) 380 s (3,700 m/s), goal
Musk's claims are being passed off as established fact.
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limb wrote:The raptor still has more isp than the RD-180.
Thats due to the propellent. For a given technology level, methalox engines will have higher ISP. Hydrolox will be greater still. You can't really compare Isp for dissimilar propellent combinations.
Raptor is lightweight because it uses more modern production methods since its a brand new engine with no manufacturing legacy. RD series have decades of legacy and established engineering methodolgies and these have institutional inertia so won't change quickly. I'd expect a future new generation Russian methalox engine to be very similar.
Bottom line is its unreasonable to compare RD/Raptor specifications line-by-line when the engines are of entirely different generations. Space-ex fuktardz do it cuz they are mostly ignorant twats who have never studied any STEM disciplines and whose main personal proficiencies are drinking Bud and watching NBA.
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Nomad5891- Posts : 62
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You basically use 3 paragraphs of text to ultimately admit the Raptor engine is better engine than RD series...Big_Gazza wrote:limb wrote:The raptor still has more isp than the RD-180.
Thats due to the propellent. For a given technology level, methalox engines will have higher ISP. Hydrolox will be greater still. You can't really compare Isp for dissimilar propellent combinations.
Raptor is lightweight because it uses more modern production methods since its a brand new engine with no manufacturing legacy. RD series have decades of legacy and established engineering methodolgies and these have institutional inertia so won't change quickly. I'd expect a future new generation Russian methalox engine to be very similar.
Bottom line is its unreasonable to compare RD/Raptor specifications line-by-line when the engines are of entirely different generations. Space-ex fuktardz do it cuz they are mostly ignorant twats who have never studied any STEM disciplines and whose main personal proficiencies are drinking Bud and watching NBA.
Better thrust to weight- check
Better isp - check
More eficient and ecologic propellent usage - check
More modern production methods used- check
Ah, but RD series are different generation and it is not fair to compare it...right...Sorry to break it for you but thats the whole point of having something from the "next generation" - it is in most cases better than the previous generation. I say most cases as we also have the F35 case, which is a big, fat exception to this rule
It amuses me how far one can go in its denial of a simple fact.
And dont get me wrong, I am sure at some point Russians will develop a better methalox engine. And RD170 and RD180 were piece of an art rocket engines, revolutionary for their times that still today are very, very capable engines.