Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

owais.usmani wrote:

Lots of promises by Rogozin, lets see how many of them materialize in the said time frames.

These are not "Promises from Rogozin", but quite specific tasks planned for implementation.

Scorpius wrote:

owais.usmani wrote:

Lots of promises by Rogozin, lets see how many of them materialize in the said time frames.

These are not "Promises from Rogozin", but quite specific tasks planned for implementation.

Rogozin was already given specific set of tasks for implementation years ago and all of it was 5 years away then just as it is 5 years away from now

He can't do any worse than Musk, who in 2016 promised launches to Mars in 2018 and ever two years after that till 2026 because of the suitable launch windows.

GarryB wrote:He can't do any worse than Musk, who in 2016 promised launches to Mars in 2018 and ever two years after that till 2026 because of the suitable launch windows.

Then Russian government should fire Musk for failing to deliver on state ordes... Oh wait, Musk doesn't work for Russian government


Rogozin does

PapaDragon wrote:

Rogozin was already given specific set of tasks for implementation years ago and all of it was 5 years away then just as it is 5 years away from now

I do not know what exactly Rogozin did to you, but he is the only one in recent decades who is trying to clear up all the mountains of shit that have buried the space industry in Russia.
I just want to remind you that nowhere in the world have there been such people who would have the competence of Korolev, Glushko or Chelomey
So Rogozin is not the worst possible option. I would even call him the best administrator available in Russia today possible candidates for the post of head of Roscosmos.

If you do not agree with me, you can at any time name a real candidate who can be better than Rogozin now. If you can't do this , then all your remarks to Rogozin are a meaningless hait and should be ignored in the future.
Don't get me wrong - but I'm a proponent of constructive and informed criticism. There are too many brainless haters around.

Scorpius wrote:
I do not know what exactly Rogozin did to you, but he is the only one in recent decades who is trying to clear up all the mountains of shit that have buried the space industry in Russia.
I just want to remind you that nowhere in the world have there been such people who would have the competence of Korolev, Glushko or Chelomey
So Rogozin is not the worst possible option. I would even call him the best administrator available in Russia today possible candidates for the post of head of Roscosmos.

If you do not agree with me, you can at any time name a real candidate who can be better than Rogozin now. If you can't do this , then all your remarks to Rogozin are a meaningless hait and should be ignored in the future.
Don't get me wrong - but I'm a proponent of constructive and informed criticism. There are too many brainless haters around.

People also need to keep in mind that Roscosmos operates on a small fraction of NASAs budget, and has much less cash on a nominal basis than even ESA.

NASA 2020: 22.6B USD
ESA 2020: 6.68B Euros (7.92B USD)
Roskosmos 2020: 176B rulbes (2.77B USD)

ESA's operating budget dwarfs Roscosmos, but what do they produce for the money?

Does ESA maintain a manned LEO capability?
Does ESA maintain a robotic resupply capability (they did have one, but meekly gave it up...)
Is ESA building their own lunar-capable manned transport?
Is ESA building a new Cosmodrome?
Is ESA rebuilding/modernising its space industry from the ground up?
How many new rockets are ESA developing? (Ariane 6 and Vega, but they are nowhere near as ambitious as Roscosmos in this regard)
Is ESA working on a nuclear tug for interplanetary flights?

Compared to ESA, I think Roscosmos does fine. Rather than being "corrupt" and "inefficient" (the usual allegations from the Exceptionalist nations) I think they significantly outperform their Western counterparts on the basis of every <insert preferred currency unit here> spent.

Even if we apply a factor of 5 PPP adjustment (2.77 -> 13.85 billion dollars), Roscosmos does no less than NASA. Recall that the
US is outsourcing to Space-X and pals. So a factor of two real budget vs. the do-nothing ESA is quite something.

The trolls on this forum invoke launch accidents as proof of failure. This is not only certifiable retardation, it is also brazen
hypocrisy since by that metric Space-X, the ESA and NASA are all total failures.

Just for clarity, I have never seen the trolls show any comparative analysis of launch accident statistics to even try to
make a credible case. They just spout that accident = fail.

Russia, China ink memorandum on cooperation in creating lunar research station

https://tass.com/science/1263979

Don't get me wrong - but I'm a proponent of constructive and informed criticism. There are too many brainless haters around.

The constant irrational criticism of someone makes it appear personal, which means they are unable to be objective... you can see the same with democrats regarding Trump for instance... if Trump did it it must be wrong... without analysis or discussion...

Same with Putin haters... when they start their rants you just realise that is all it is...

Which is sad because there are things they do that are questionable and could be discussed, but not with these people...

You mean like...

Reporter: What are your plans for the future of the country?
Answer: Putin has to go!
Reporter: And then?
Answer: Putin has to go!
Reporter: Do you plan a tax relief?
Answer: Putin has to go!

Kiko wrote:Russia, China ink memorandum on cooperation in creating lunar research station

https://tass.com/science/1263979

Number of people taking this seriously in Russia and the world combined is about the same as number of people on this forum doing the same

That number is even lower in China

Russia and China can't even put together an airplane but Rogozin expects people to believe that they will somehow build lunar station?

All this in a time when Roskosmos is canceling almost complete and long overdue projects so they could focus on trying to copy SpaceX?

How many missions beyond Earth's orbit has Russia sent over the past two decades? How many scientific missions have they managed to complete by themselves? Have they ever sent even a bacteria beyond Earth orbit? Forget human...

They have absolutely nothing to snow for and they think that it will be Chinese who will want to drag their dead weight to the Moon now when Chinese are finally rounding up their space program?

Remember your complaints about CR-929? Well that will be the good old days compared to this

Russia has even less to offer to China in space sector than it does to aircraft one and once they have that they will drop them like turd on a concrete

Chinese know that Roskosmos is ran by a shaved monkey who was stupid enough to refuse a practically free ride on Artemis program (something Chinese would kill for) and who would torch entire Russian space program over his butthurt ego and are in no hurry to spend any more time with them than absolutely necessary

PapaDragon wrote:All this in a time when Roskosmos is canceling almost complete and long overdue projects so they could focus on trying to copy SpaceX?

What projects are being cancelled?    If you are referring to Yenisei/Don being revised for methalox and reuseability then you know as well as I do that such is not a cancellation, but you choose to lie about it for political traction.  That doesn't say much for your honesty...

How many missions beyond Earth's orbit has Russia sent over the past two decades? How many scientific missions have they managed to complete by themselves? Have they ever sent even a bacteria beyond Earth orbit? Forget human...

Russia has launched a number of successful BEO missions (see below), though most have been joint missions with ESA.  It was Russian rockets and escape stages that propelled said spacecraft out of Earth orbit, so they absolutely have the capability.  The only failure was Phobos Grunt, and that can be attributed to a shoe-string budget that was simply insufficient and forced design compromises that proved fatal in practise. This is clear evidence that Russia has a solid capability in BEO missions, providing the budget is adequate.

• Mars Express
  Venus Express
  Exo-mars TGO
  Spectk-RG
  

They have absolutely nothing to snow for and they think that it will be Chinese who will want to drag their dead weight to the Moon now when Chinese are finally rounding up their space program?

Nothing to show except several spacecraft delivered safely to destinations...  You are an armchair expert in the practise of denial.

The big picture is that China will want Russia in their corner rather than them being a lowly service provider working for peanuts to deliver US glory.  Chinese & Russian flags side by side on mission penants and PR releases is a powerful statement, even more so in the current period of Chinese economic ascent and challenge to the US-led hegemonic world order.

Russia has even less to offer to China in space sector than it does to aircraft one and once they have that they will drop them like turd on a concrete

Russia is an invaluable partner to Chinese efforts to push back against stifling US hegemonical pressures.  You're being myopic if you cannot see that.  China and Russia each has their own strengths and weaknesses, and they will greatly compliment each other if they work together.  it is win-win for them both, and a major finger in the eye to the accursed Muricanz.

Chinese know that Roskosmos is ran by a shaved monkey who was stupid enough to refuse a practically free ride on Artemis program (something Chinese would kill for) and who would torch entire Russian space program over his butthurt ego and are in no hurry to spend any more time with them than absolutely necessary

The Chinese are not interested in riding on Artemis as they know the US only offered such in order to tie Russia down into a lunar program that the US controls.  Any similar offer to China would be nothing but a ploy to prevent China from stretching its wings and being seen to as a real challenger to US (wet) dreams of space hegemony.

Your frenzied hatred of Rogozin is really wearing thin.  Reading your screeds is like reading the Putin-hate spewing from Tsavo Lion or the uber-clown Vann7.  

Yenisei is not being cancelled.   The LNG fueled rocket, the Amur is a totally different project.   I doubt Rogozin ever stated that
Amur will replace the Yenisei.   But journalist swine are highly likely to put words in the mouths of Rogozin and others.   This
thread demonstrates this fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amur_(launch_vehicle)

https://www.space.com/russia-announces-reusable-rocket-amur

https://spacewatch.global/2020/10/russia-wants-super-heavy-launcher-based-on-amur/

Russia wants super-heavy launcher based on Amur

Luxembourg, 8 October 2020. – Russia has ambitions to develop a super-heavy launch vehicle, based on the Amur rocket, a Roscosmos official told the news agency Tass.
An upgraded reusable first stage of Russia’s advanced Amur methane-fueled rocket can be used to develop a super-heavy carrier rocket, Roscosmos Executive Director for Long-Term Programs and Science, Alexander Bloshenko, told Tass this week.

“Designers have already put forward proposals on using the methane-fueled rocket’s first stage to create a carrier with an increased lifting capacity. It will weigh over 440 tonnes and be able to deliver 17 tonnes of payload into low orbit. The same stage could potentially be used as a side core of a super-heavy rocket,” Bloshenko was quoted.

Russia’s State Space Corporation Roscosmos and the Progress Space Rocket Center signed a contract for the Amur-SPG space rocket center to design the new Amur methane-fueled rocket, Tass reported. The rocket will be launched from the Vostochny spaceport in the Russian Far East.

Nothing here about cancellation of the Yanisei. It sounds like it could be, but the current production philosophy in Russia is URMs, URMs and more URMs.
The Angara is the transition to such a paradigm. The Soyuz-5 will be deployed, then they can choose what get more to orbit. Any SHLV based on
the Amur is going to be substantially weaker than the Yanisei. Bloshenko's statement is basically rumination and not policy.

Big_Gazza wrote:.........Russia has launched a number of successful BEO missions (see below), though most have been joint missions with ESA
...

• Mars Express
  Venus Express
  Exo-mars TGO
  Spectk-RG
  

 

Every single one was ESA's, not most

All Russia did was to take someone else's payload, install it on their granddaddy's rocker, launch granddaddy's rocket and deliver someone elses's payload to granddaddy's old target zone

Big_Gazza wrote:...Chinese & Russian flags side by side on mission penants and PR releases is a powerful statement, even more so in the current period of ...

PR releases is all they will deliver same as with commercial aircraft

Big_Gazza wrote:...Chinese economic ascent and challenge to the US-led hegemonic world order....

Chinese want to be part of US world order not to challenge it

Anyone who thinks otherwise is buttfuck retarded

Big_Gazza wrote:...Russia is an invaluable partner to Chinese efforts to push back against stifling US hegemonical pressures. ....
.... finger in the eye to the accursed Muricanz...

Thank you, Tzavo

Chairman Winnie the Pooh appreciates your efforts

Big_Gazza wrote:...The Chinese are not interested in riding on Artemis as they know the US only offered such in order to tie Russia down into a lunar program that the US controls.  

China has their man in the White House now and in 4-8 years when Joe smooths over the situation the Chinese will be hopping on that seat to Artemis while Russia will be left sucking it's own dick and making threats on Twitter about all the stuff they will do better than their waifu Musk 5 year from then

Magical 5 years, always 5 years...

PapaDragon wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:.........Russia has launched a number of successful BEO missions (see below), though most have been joint missions with ESA
...

• Mars Express
  Venus Express
  Exo-mars TGO
  Spectk-RG
  

Every single one was ESA's, not most

Spektr RG is not ESA, but purely Russian space observatory operating 1.5 million km away from earth.
Yes, they did install eRossita equipment, but it is just a payload. Complete idea of the spacecraft, planning, implementation and etc. was Russian.
Also, they successfully implemented Spektr-R mission recently.

PapaDragon wrote:
All Russia did was to take someone else's payload, install it on their granddaddy's rocker, launch granddaddy's rocket and deliver someone elses's payload to granddaddy's old target zone

launching spacecraft to the space is not the same thing like delivering payload via trucks. It is not just load-deliver-unload.

P.S. people from Balkan destroy every single forum

Artemis is Americas show... offering to take Russia and China too was because they were not sure they could do everything for themselves...

Russia recognised that straight away and rejected the offer before they got any offer from China.

Russias space programme is fine, they are developing infrastructure and designing new machines and systems.

America, while spending more than ten times more is also outsourcing the basic stuff and paying rather more for the privilege than they would if they just did it themselves as shown by the recent unsubsidised prices for commercial payloads to space.

I would suspect the immense hike in US prices means they are no longer prepared to subsidise everyone elses access to space, which makes Russian options much more competitive... the irony is that for this to work they needed to price them out of the market till they left the market... the fact that they are putting the prices back up shows how much it was hurting them, so all that work will likely shift back to Russia... so much for private enterprise being the solution... only if you can afford to take enormous loses till the rivals are eliminated and then jack the prices up because there is now no competition.

All they succeeded in doing was make Musk look like a fool with all his promises now clearly broken and the cost of getting to space for the US more expensive than ever before.

The one thing the Americans are experts in is PR and being a show pony... and they took some hook line and sinker.

Ned86 wrote:
Spektr RG is not ESA, but purely Russian space observatory operating 1.5 million km away from earth.
Yes, they did install eRossita equipment, but it is just a payload. Complete idea of the spacecraft, planning, implementation and etc. was Russian.
Also, they successfully implemented Spektr-R mission recently.

Well said, and I'd also observe that Russia provided instruments on both the Venus Express (*1) and Exo-Mars TGO (*2) missions, so again they are not just a "transport contractor" like some seem to insist.

(*1)
Ultraviolet and Infrared Atmospheric Spectrometer (SPICAV/SOIR) - JV with France & Belgium

(*2)
Atmospheric Chemistry Suite (ACS), a 3-channel IR spectrometer
Fine-Resolution Epithermal Neutron Detector (FREND), a hydrogen detector

American astronauts to again use Russian Soyuz rocket to reach ISS as NASA can’t rely on ‘unstable’ US tech – Moscow space chief
11 Mar, 2021

After the US bought a seat on a Russian spacecraft to send a NASA astronaut to the International Space Station, the chief of Russia's Space Agency Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin claimed that American spaceflight is still “unstable.”

From 2011 to last year, the US relied on Russia's Soyuz launch system to send its astronauts to live on the ISS, with America not having its own capability. In May 2020, Crew Dragon, a reusable spacecraft made by Elon Musk's private company SpaceX, took two Americans to space for the first time on a US-made vehicle in nine years.

However, despite this progress, it appears that NASA will still need help from Moscow.

Revealed by Roscosmos on Wednesday, in late 2020 the Americans asked for a spot for astronaut Mark Vande Hei on Soyuz MS-18, due to go to the ISS on April 9. According to a press release, the request was made very late and interrupted the Russian flight program, but the company accepted it as a way to “confirm its commitment to joint agreements and the spirit of joint use of the International Space Station.”

“The tradition of international crews, which has existed for more than twenty years, will be continued again,” the statement said.

Before 2011, there was an agreement between Russia and the US to share seats on each other's spacecraft. Last year, NASA reported that it would be negotiating with Roscosmos to bring back this crossover system. However, according to Rogozin, this latest agreement isn't a swap-over.

“Flights to the ISS are unstable,” Rogozin wrote on Facebook. “There was an urgent need for them to find insurance and send their man on our ship, to make sure their segment on the space station isn't left unattended. The talk of swapping seats has nothing to do with this at all,” he clarified, noting that the agreement was made with Axiom Space, a NASA contractor and private space company which has plans to eventually sell human spaceflight experiences to tourists who want to visit the ISS.

“It's convenient for them, and we don't care. We'll invest the proceeds in new developments.”

In 2014, when he served as deputy prime minister, Rogozin famously joked that the US should use a trampoline to send its astronauts to space after sanctions that targeted the Russian space industry. In 2020, after the success of SpaceX, Musk quipped, “the trampoline is working!”

However, Musk was not to have the last laugh. Following the latest US request for a seat, Rogozin wrote on Facebook: “Apparently, the trampoline only works so-so.”

https://www.rt.com/russia/517842-usa-use-soyuz-sputnik/

He just can't keep his fat stupid mouth shut, can he?

Beggar bragging with pittance and last cold leftovers from someone else's party

Everyone knows he will soon be eating those words alongside big helping of shit but he just keeps on yapping like a retard

Maybe he practices for when he has to accuse Chinese of being backstabbing assholes when they jump on Artemis program and he is stuck with his flacid little dick demanding to be swallowed by his fat stupid piehole?

Big_Gazza wrote:

Ned86 wrote:
Spektr RG is not ESA, but purely Russian space observatory operating 1.5 million km away from earth.
Yes, they did install eRossita equipment, but it is just a payload. Complete idea of the spacecraft, planning, implementation and etc. was Russian.
Also, they successfully implemented Spektr-R mission recently.

Well said, and I'd also observe that Russia provided instruments on both the Venus Express (*1) and  Exo-Mars TGO (*2) missions, so again they are not just a "transport contractor" like some seem to insist.

(*1)
Ultraviolet and Infrared Atmospheric Spectrometer (SPICAV/SOIR) - JV with France & Belgium

(*2)
Atmospheric Chemistry Suite (ACS), a 3-channel IR spectrometer
Fine-Resolution Epithermal Neutron Detector (FREND), a hydrogen detector

For those that may want to know, Fourier transform spectrometers measuring in the IR bands are the primary tool to
determine the chemical composition of atmospheres.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_spectroscopy

This is no off the shelf ho-hum scientific tech. It is bleeding edge.

PapaDragon wrote:
He just can't keep his fat stupid mouth shut, can he?

And what can the Americans say? What, will they impose sanctions on Russian enterprises of the space industry or ban the launch of satellites on Russian rockets? Oh, wait - they've already done it. So don't give a fuck about the opinion of the Americans - Rogozin can joke as he pleases. There is no relationship that can be ruined.

PD is spreading the typical knee-jerk NATzO fanboi BS about how once some western partner has a finger in a Russian space project,
then that project is totally owned by the western partner. Because Russians are all mud hut dwelling primitives that couldn't wipe their
asses without western magical knowhow.

Yeah...