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66 posters
Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6
Hole- Posts : 11122
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Hole- Posts : 11122
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Special version for the summer.
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Hole- Posts : 11122
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Possibly the izd. 180
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Gomig-21- Posts : 746
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Izdeliye-180 is the same as (K-77M) which is the same as R-77-1? So many names for these things it drives you crazy lol.
LMFS- Posts : 5165
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Gomig-21 wrote:Izdeliye-180 is the same as (K-77M) which is the same as R-77-1? So many names for these things it drives you crazy lol.
This should be izd. 180 aka K-77M. I wish we had a better picture, I can't see properly the strakes. I am not even 100% there can't be some RAM intakes there. There seems to be changes, besides the removal of the lattice fins.
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Stealthflanker- Posts : 1459
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LMFS wrote:Gomig-21 wrote:Izdeliye-180 is the same as (K-77M) which is the same as R-77-1? So many names for these things it drives you crazy lol.
This should be izd. 180 aka K-77M. I wish we had a better picture, I can't see properly the strakes. I am not even 100% there can't be some RAM intakes there. There seems to be changes, besides the removal of the lattice fins.
LMFS- Posts : 5165
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I just saw that latest picture too, so izd. 180 follows perfectly the drawings published by Butowski 
EDIT: that should be the Kh-38MLE with different wings
EDIT: that should be the Kh-38MLE with different wings
Last edited by LMFS on Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Begome- Posts : 158
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Just in case there was a misunderstanding: the R-77-1 is not the same as the R-77M; the former is an improvement on the R-77 with an active radar seeker and has now been ordered in large numbers, while the latter is still in development and is getting an AESA radar and two-pulse rocket motor. The R-77-1 is izdelie 170-1 while the R-77M is probably the izdelie 180.Gomig-21 wrote:Izdeliye-180 is the same as (K-77M) which is the same as R-77-1? So many names for these things it drives you crazy lol.
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GarryB- Posts : 40548
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Yes, R-77-1 is the Russian domestic production model of the RVV-SD, which is an upgrade of the original R-77 which was called RVV-AE for export.
This new model missile is R-77M with a more powerful solid rocket motor with two stages where the second stage can be delayed to extend range further.
There was a ramjet powered version developed in parallel to the R-77M to also be a long range missile called R-77PD but despite development being complete it was stopped... personally I think it was because a scramjet powered missile could use a similar but more bulky shape but have much better performance in terms of speed and range... for a similar price... still a mystery though...
There is a new big missile intended to replace the R-37M called Izd 810 as well...
This new model missile is R-77M with a more powerful solid rocket motor with two stages where the second stage can be delayed to extend range further.
There was a ramjet powered version developed in parallel to the R-77M to also be a long range missile called R-77PD but despite development being complete it was stopped... personally I think it was because a scramjet powered missile could use a similar but more bulky shape but have much better performance in terms of speed and range... for a similar price... still a mystery though...
There is a new big missile intended to replace the R-37M called Izd 810 as well...
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Placing aircraft weapons on the Su-57 fighter. Screenshot from the monitor shown in the video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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GarryB- Posts : 40548
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Can anyone translate the tabs along the bottom of that screen.... I am assuming this tab is for air to air dogfighting combat loadout.
What are the other tabs saying?
What I find interesting about this image is that they bother to make a longer ranged R-77 with small fins for internal carriage... but they can still only fit two per weapon bay.... rather strange... they have already said they can fit two R-37Ms and two of the new model AS-11 ARMs in each bay...
Maybe they have decided that it simply makes more sense to carry extra missiles in S-70 drones, or operate with Su-30s and Su-35s which can carry a lot more missiles much more efficiently than any stealth fighter could...
What are the other tabs saying?
What I find interesting about this image is that they bother to make a longer ranged R-77 with small fins for internal carriage... but they can still only fit two per weapon bay.... rather strange... they have already said they can fit two R-37Ms and two of the new model AS-11 ARMs in each bay...
Maybe they have decided that it simply makes more sense to carry extra missiles in S-70 drones, or operate with Su-30s and Su-35s which can carry a lot more missiles much more efficiently than any stealth fighter could...
Begome- Posts : 158
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Yes, it's, from left to right, "air-air", "air-surface", "air-radar", "air-ship", "unguided munitions", "fuel tanks".Can anyone translate the tabs along the bottom of that screen.... I am assuming this tab is for air to air dogfighting combat loadout.
limb- Posts : 1550
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I thought the R-77Ms and R-37Ms were already tested on the Su-57 around 2014-16. Is those missiles having teething problems one of the reasons the production date l of the Su-57 has been pushed back multiple times?
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limb wrote:I thought the R-77Ms and R-37Ms were already tested on the Su-57 around 2014-16. Is those missiles having teething problems one of the reasons the production date l of the Su-57 has been pushed back multiple times?
It's quite secret but both must have had delays or don't fit with the optimistics planed schedule like any big project.
The only reported test were kh-59mk2 in syria from internal bays and r-77-1 and kh-31 externally.
limb- Posts : 1550
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So when it comes into service around 2021, its primary stealthy AA and AS armament wont be available? If it has to do air superiority it will be unstealthy?Isos wrote:limb wrote:I thought the R-77Ms and R-37Ms were already tested on the Su-57 around 2014-16. Is those missiles having teething problems one of the reasons the production date l of the Su-57 has been pushed back multiple times?
It's quite secret but both must have had delays or don't fit with the optimistics planed schedule like any big project.
The only reported test were kh-59mk2 in syria from internal bays and r-77-1 and kh-31 externally.
limb- Posts : 1550
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This means its confirmed that the Su-57 can only carry 4 R-77s in internal bay? Thats a shame. F-22 still has more BVR ammo.George1 wrote:Placing aircraft weapons on the Su-57 fighter. Screenshot from the monitor shown in the video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
x_54_u43- Posts : 336
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limb wrote:This means its confirmed that the Su-57 can only carry 4 R-77s in internal bay? Thats a shame. F-22 still has more BVR ammo.George1 wrote:Placing aircraft weapons on the Su-57 fighter. Screenshot from the monitor shown in the video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
1. There are more missile types coming for Su-57, very likely increasing its MRAAM capacity.
2. F-22 wishes it could carry the type of munitions that the Su-57 could carry.
3. This may be only current capacity available to the Su-57 as for current program. Su-57M or later serial versions could very easily carry more, there is space. Very much like the F-35 only getting the ability to carry six AIM-120s later on.
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GarryB- Posts : 40548
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I thought the R-77Ms and R-37Ms were already tested on the Su-57 around 2014-16. Is those missiles having teething problems one of the reasons the production date l of the Su-57 has been pushed back multiple times?
Even if the Su-57 never carries either missile in combat it would not effect its production.
The Su-57 is a stealth aircraft hunter, so it will likely carry R-77Ms because of their better radar sensitivity... besides who knows what missiles they are carrying at any time... what makes you think there are any teething problems with either missile?
It's quite secret but both must have had delays or don't fit with the optimistics planed schedule like any big project.
I have not read anywhere about problems with either missile... the R-37M is in operational service with MiG-31s which will be its primary user...
So when it comes into service around 2021, its primary stealthy AA and AS armament wont be available? If it has to do air superiority it will be unstealthy?
What makes you think the R-77M is not ready for service?
If they are testing performance in Syria for an air to surface missile then it is in service... they are just testing its performance on a real actual target...
This means its confirmed that the Su-57 can only carry 4 R-77s in internal bay? Thats a shame. F-22 still has more BVR ammo.
F-22 has no IRST or L band AESA antenna in its wing so when the four internal medium or long range AAMs are fired from the Su-57, the F-22 probably wont even know what is happening...
3. This may be only current capacity available to the Su-57 as for current program. Su-57M or later serial versions could very easily carry more, there is space. Very much like the F-35 only getting the ability to carry six AIM-120s later on.
This could be export configuration... for all we know they might only have two wiring points and suspension points in each bay so it is limited to two weapons.
Further development could lead to a frame that could be attached to connect the wiring for twin launch pylons for each weapon point currently in each bay, which would mean 8 weapons per bay instead of four.
But as I mentioned... the Su-57 is intended to operate with Su-35s and S-70s above S-350s, S-400s and S-500s, so carrying a few extra missiles might not be considered worth the extra weight and complication...
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Isos- Posts : 11602
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Kh 58 ?
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Isos wrote:Kh 58 ?
Yes
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I don't see the IIR optic under the nose. The one they presented had it.
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x_54_u43 wrote:limb wrote:This means its confirmed that the Su-57 can only carry 4 R-77s in internal bay? Thats a shame. F-22 still has more BVR ammo.George1 wrote:Placing aircraft weapons on the Su-57 fighter. Screenshot from the monitor shown in the video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
1. There are more missile types coming for Su-57, very likely increasing its MRAAM capacity.
2. F-22 wishes it could carry the type of munitions that the Su-57 could carry.
3. This may be only current capacity available to the Su-57 as for current program. Su-57M or later serial versions could very easily carry more, there is space. Very much like the F-35 only getting the ability to carry six AIM-120s later on.
I'm betting they'll create the successor to Hellducks, and probably call them Su-62/64. If they have the same side-by-side seating, then surely it'll be wider allowing it to have more fuel and or weapons stored.
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Hole- Posts : 11122
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Isos wrote:I don't see the IIR optic under the nose. The one they presented had it.
The one with optics is an even newer version.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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Hole wrote:Isos wrote:I don't see the IIR optic under the nose. The one they presented had it.
The one with optics is an even newer version.
I guess it's not ready then if they buy this one.
IIR would be need because modern radar have a narrow beam and could detect the missile and turn off. The iir will catch the hot signature of the radar even turned off.