Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

PapaDragon wrote:
Sarmat doesn't have NATO designation yet

If you are talking about SS-18 Satan it's the coolest name for a weapon ever given

GarryB wrote:the devil is part of the western religious delusion...

The-thing-next-door wrote:

GarryB wrote:the devil is part of the western religious delusion...

Western? How much do you even know about Russian culture?


The point I was making is that it is a really stupid name for a missile in Russian service and even in Soviet service it was still stupid considering who its targets were.

GarryB wrote:Hey dickhead... how Orthodox Christian as Stalin... or the other Soviet leaders that followed him?

Communism was Athiest... probably its best feature in my opinion.

GarryB wrote:Show me a 2,000 year old book on mixing paint or building a house or keeping bees that makes sense in this day and age... what... none?

GarryB wrote:

This looks pretty official to me... and notice  the wing root location for weapon locations 6 and 5 which it states can carry one izd 760 missile, which is the R-74M2.

No other missile type there can be carried in that location in that weapon category at the moment.

I would think because of the size an shape restraints that such a missile could eventually be carried in twins or triples on external hard points 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 in the future... possibly in tandem triples depending on the length.

Hole wrote:Blurry pic of the Su-57 with... something

LMFS wrote:There is a patent that explains every detail of how the system works, if you have any doubt about that. In general is IMHO not advisable to listen too much to Western paranoia about the alleged shortcomings of the Su-57. If we were talking about a Western plane and we had all the information about those bays that we have for the Sukhoi, including a detailed patent available for many years now, nobody in their right mind would question that those bays exist and work as intended, but since presumption of guilt is what rules for Russia, here we are, 10 years discussing whether the plane's bays are fake or real...

LMFS wrote:Well, the video of the of the side bays is completely conclusive to me, but I think you are answering yourself: they are clearly and for some reason not interested in showcasing the bays of the plane. US is designing NGAD right now, properly assessing the ultimate capabilities of the Su-57 lays at the very core of getting its needed dimensions and layout right. So if they ignore how many AAMs it can potentially carry, how fast it can release them etc., that is a bigger interest for Russia than showing off.

• 8-12 air to air missiles is what this board has estimated for internal load, F-35 went from 4 to 6.

• The su-57 in terms of protection has a 360 radar coverage combined with 360 UV coverage with the option of QWIP IRST for 180 degree coverage, F-35 in comparison has 120 radar degree coverage with 360 degree infrared coverage. So I assume that the Su-57 will have more precision to deal with incoming air to air missiles. U.S. aviation fans love to argue that infrared is better than UV missile warning systems but I see disadvantages and even advantages one has over the other so there's that. Both can also passively sense radio transmissions but in my opinion the Su-57 does that better with 2,236 modules or even more(These past 10+ years I take it that they have upgraded the radars) + GaN EW system Himalayas
  

• The F-35 is said to later use a 100 kilowatt DIRCM which I take it can physically destroy an air to air missile and there is this MSDM Miniature Self-Defense Munition which will use midget missiles against incoming air to air missiles. AFAIK the Su-57 DIRCM can only currently blind infrared sensors towards incoming adversary air to air missiles, suppress link 16 data transmission with L-band radars use its maneuverability and passive/active radar capabilities to give it enough time to avoid the incoming air to air missiles host radars. 2014 rostec stated GaN MMICs for himalayas, khlibiny-m and tarantula, su-57 got its EW systems in late 2014, Su-35 tested its new ones in 2016 and Su-34 received its in 2017 AFAIK they are only used for UHF and NGJ for EA-18 growlers cover UHF and VHF which is external so automatically the Su-57 is assumed being better at air to ground missions against SAMs. The possibility of ROFAR will give the 2nd version Su-57 the possibility to suppress MADL datalink on adversary air to air missiles and even the host radars of incoming  air to air missiles can be suppressed. Based on the responses here we do not know if the aircraft has a miniature missile defense in its 1st version or 2nd version and we do not know if they will upgrade the energy levels to destroy missiles for the 2nd version DIRCM.....But its more than likely guaranteed that the Su-57 does not have to physically destroy a missile if its able to leave that missile completely in the dark.
  

• stealth is debatable as in no chance in hell we will get RCS estimates, avionics including upgrades lean to the Su-57s favor so next are weapons
  

• F-35 has shown an image of the HAWC missile, and currently working on fielding the SiAW missile to be twice as fast and twice as long range as the AGM-88 so a 300km by mach 4 air to ground missile to be stored internally on the F-35(which was presented in 2018). Russia announced twice a kinzhal like missile is being developed to fit in the Su-57 and the Kh-58UShKE Missile introduced in 2007 is only mach 0.6 short and 55km range less than the SiAW while having the same dimensions. So with the announcement of new weapons for the 2nd version of Su-57, the only hope U.S. fan boys have is that in the passed 10-15 years all Russian rockets scientists have done is stroke their dicks and do nothing. But of course that is wishful thinking and they are quick in denial with my sources so we will wait later to see the obvious.
  

• AIM-260 JATM is mach 5 and 200km, other states half length and same range as AIM-120, current k-77m is 193kms and ramjet version will be even longer. Wonder if new air to air missiles are being developed for the 2nd version aircraft.
  

GarryB wrote:

I can't possibly image something so against the Russian (after Soviet one) praxis than twin and triples on external points.

I agree to a point, but bare in mind that this missile is the small compact internal carriage missile... so it is not the R-3 /13 or R-73... it is the R-60 equivalent weapon as used on the MiG-23 which did get an external twin pylon mount, because it was small and light so a twin mount made sense, while the small size and light weight of the missile meant taking up a weapon pylon it was easy enough to mount more than  one on the pylon available.

When I say small I don't mean physically small like the R-60 actually was... it was about 45kg in one version, but compact with small fins and control surfaces...

So having two side by side on a missile pylon wouldn't take up a lot of space like a twin mount R-27 would for instance.

Graphic rendering is different showing two missiles in two different spaces, not one in four different ones.
So I would read it as two missiles in each of 2&4 and two in each of the 1&3 rows.

I am assuming the green dots will be the normal loadout, presumably the green external pylons only carried when stealth is no longer an issue so a standard load out of two IZD 760 short range IR guided AAMs in the wing root internal weapon bays and four R-77M long range AAMs in the four main weapon bay positions will be the standard weapon layout... of course with the 30mm cannon and 150 rounds of ammo too.

They already fired r-74 from the weapons bay. Well, it looks like they did. And they also have this small r-77 on the top which seems to be for the small weapons bay.

I find that display of those three missiles rather confusing... the top missile seems to have the rear grid fins of the R-77... is it a 9M100?

The middle missile looks like an R-73 but seems rather too big compared with the R-77 below it.

And the R-77 below it has interesting body fins but standard rear grid fins which I thought they were getting rid of...

It's just a shame that here the Su-57 is entering serial production and we haven't seen a single conclusive video of any of the weapons bays functioning or firing any missiles. I'm not sure what the strategy is with that?! One would think that if Sukhoi wanted to showcase the fighter to its fullest limit, they would be showcasing the fighter firing away from every single bay and every single direction. Really can't understand what the strategy is for not showing the weapons testing? Why hide it so adamantly like that?

I suspect there are some details they want to keep secret for a while, but when they start pushing export sales of the aircraft they will likely have more details about weapon options if only for export...

Isn't that optical pods to observe weapon separation?

Could be, or could also be a targeting pod, for testing air to ground ordinance perhaps...

   Both can also passively sense radio transmissions but in my opinion the Su-57 does that better with 2,236 modules or even more(These past 10+ years I take it that they have upgraded the radars) + GaN EW system Himalayas

With wingroot mounted L band AESA arrays the Su-57 can in theory detect HATO datalink communications which also work in L band...

The F-35 is said to later use a 100 kilowatt DIRCM which I take it can physically destroy an air to air missile and there is this MSDM Miniature Self-Defense Munition which will use midget missiles against incoming air to air missiles. AFAIK the Su-57 DIRCM can only currently blind infrared sensors

100 kilowatt lasers.... that is very impressive... but apart from appealing to fan boys on the internet what advantage does it offer above blinding the incoming missiles apart from using enormous levels of energy?

...F-35 so I decided to just break the ice here and compare its features and to what the Su-57 has.

The main problem I see is that claims for the F-35 seem to exceed reality... it is stealthy, but the Su-35 and Su-30 seem to track it just fine... it will be getting super DIRCMs... but with a 100Kw laser why would it need any other type of weapon... it could just blow missiles and enemy aircraft out of the sky with this laser couldn't it?

And proposed new ARM that is not that much superior to an ARM the Russians could have in service for 13 years already... and self defence AAMs... but again... with that laser.... why?