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Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

calripson

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Post n°251

Unforgivable

calripson Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:06 pm

Unforgivable recklessness or unforgivable security if it was (as I believe likely) sabotage. Every ship being built should have a 24/7 safety/security detail as well as every single person allowed on site being vetted as if they are visiting the white house. Fire preventive measure either trucks or ships with foam should be proximate to every project. The costs of all these measures are de minimis compared to this write off.

If these steps are not taken, this will not be the last "accident" of this type.

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Krepost

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Post n°252

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

Krepost Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:16 pm

At best: damaged/burned superstructure etc. will be replaced. Delay of 2 years.
At worst: ship will be written off, undamaged parts will be salvaged.

owais.usmani

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Post n°253

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

owais.usmani Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:50 pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrFrantarelli/status/1472148092350783488

medo

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Post n°254

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

medo Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:54 pm

Isos wrote:The ship yesterday before the fire. Actually it wasn't carrying the radars it seems. I guess the interior wasn't fitted to. They were probably still working on the wiring. So it's a good news since those electronics cos as much as the hull and the rest of the boat.

They also said the hull was not touched by the fire, only the upper structure which can be replaced pretty fast.

But what can make such big fire if the ship was empty ? No oil no kerosen for chopper, no weapons onboard. To burn the metal you need something to start the fire first.

It looks, ship was ready for painting, so there was paint and chemicals inside, which could burn. Good thing in this is, that it is modular and they could replace upper structure module with new one. It will take time, but it is not tragic. Russian NAVY already got new mine sweeper, which burned.

miroslav

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Post n°255

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

miroslav Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:40 pm

owais.usmani wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/MrFrantarelli/status/1472148092350783488

Unbelievable, that's it, the superstructure is gone.

Just when things started going good, just when you thing the production and manufacturing achieved a momentum, that the things are moving rapid... Russians manage to **** it up again.

This is way to many fires and accidents happening recently, especially since they desperately need new ships to take over the load of patrolling and force projection in the neighborhood.
The Pacific fleet is, at least conventionally, totally outnumbered by the USA, Japanese and Koreans every new ship is precious, especially ones that have USKS launchers and are multirole.

I work as an engineer so I understand that there is no way to prevent or to predict 100% accidents, but a fire that cant be put under control fast enough before id destroys a 100+ million investment... that just a sad joke for a country that claims the title of a global power.

Somebody needs to hang for this, seriously, at this point this is the only thing that will stop shit like this.

Lets face it, this is 99% human negligence, no way it JUST happened and it JUST went totally out of control on a crucial MOD project.

miroslav

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Post n°256

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

miroslav Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:45 pm

We should start a ne topic "Russian Navy Shipbuilding Accidents - Betting pool"

My money is on Admiral Nakhimov to be next in line.

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Hole

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Post n°257

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

Hole Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:15 pm

Yeah, thing like that can only happen in Russia. They even managed to loose one of their new LHD´s.

Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2 - Page 11 Ecydoh10

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°258

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

Big_Gazza Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:48 pm

miroslav wrote:We should start a ne topic "Russian Navy Shipbuilding Accidents - Betting pool"

My money is on Admiral Nakhimov to be next in line.

How about you go and censored

yourself?

marcellogo

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Post n°259

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

marcellogo Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:58 pm

miroslav wrote:We should start a ne topic "Russian Navy Shipbuilding Accidents - Betting pool"

My money is on Admiral Nakhimov to be next in line.

Actually, it would have more sense than an "United States of American Military Project Failure/cancellations- betting pool" as in such a case it would be a sure win 99 times on 100 cases... angel

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Krepost

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Post n°260

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

Krepost Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:32 pm

Preliminary findings:
The main gun was not installed yet.
Most of the radars and electronics were not there either.
The fire consumed the entire superstructure made of composites.
Hull seems intact.

flamming_python

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Post n°261

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

flamming_python Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:21 am

A flammable ship. Didn't know they still made those.

Caught fire from what, some oil rags and cigarettes?

Guess we should be glad it burned down in the shipyard with no-one on it, than out at sea or in combat.

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calripson

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Post n°262

No Kidding

calripson Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:52 am

flamming_python wrote:A flammable ship. Didn't know they still made those.

Caught fire from what, some oil rags and cigarettes?

Guess we should be glad it burned down in the shipyard with no-one on it, than out at sea or in combat.

I don't think I would feel very comfortable as a sailor on a ship whose superstructure burns like a plastic model.

flamming_python

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Post n°263

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

flamming_python Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:04 am

calripson wrote:

flamming_python wrote:A flammable ship. Didn't know they still made those.

Caught fire from what, some oil rags and cigarettes?

Guess we should be glad it burned down in the shipyard with no-one on it, than out at sea or in combat.

I don't think I would feel very comfortable as a sailor on a ship whose superstructure burns like a plastic model.

Yup

I think there are going to be a lot questions being asked in the coming days among the higher-ups. And the costs of this whole debacle unfortunately may not be limited to just replacing the superstructure of one burned-out vessel

miroslav

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Post n°264

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

miroslav Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:09 am

I don't think you understood the nature of the message I wrote or the slight sarcasm in it, I want the Russian Navy to as strong as it can be, I'm a fan (for the lack of a better word).

The point is that the attitude "well it's just the superstructure, the hull is intact" is the king of attitude that the RN cant allow, they don't have 20+ modern operational ocean going frigates in service, it's just not viable.

The status of the hull in definitely unknown but it can be reasonably assumed that it too sustain damage.

As far as the USN and the fire on their LHD, that is an unfair comparison for two reasons:
1. The fire was a result of sabotage.
2. THEY HAVE SHIT LOADS OF THEM IN SERVICE, AND SHIT LOADS OF MONEY FOR MANY MANY MORE and many destroyers to escort them anywhere in the world.

Same goes for the failed projects, yes they have them, Russia has them too, not an issue... but US Dep. Of Defense has huge sums of many to finance a huge number of projects in the hops of some of them making into service. Including making failed super destroyers like the Zumwalt.

Point is Russia needs to be smarter then the US in how it plans it's fleet building and security, I think we can all agree on that.

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Arkanghelsk

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Post n°265

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

Arkanghelsk Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:32 am

These conventional systems dont make any difference.

Russia is about to win the 3rd missile crisis with new weapon systems. The ultimatum to NATO is not going to be enforced by gremyashiy but by poseidon and burevestnik, zircon and s500.

As for the superstructure , it is well known that they are fiberglass structures. It is lighter and more stealthy then metal which is highly reflective. They are flammable, but in combat situation really wont make a difference if your on the receiving end of 500kg warhead.

Anyway noone got hurt, they should get back to work

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flamming_python

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Post n°266

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

flamming_python Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:41 am

Arkanghelsk wrote:As for the superstructure , it is well known that they are fiberglass structures. It is lighter and more stealthy then metal which is highly reflective. They are flammable, but in combat situation really wont make a difference if your on the receiving end of 500kg warhead.

Didn't even take combat to take out this vessel utterly, as it seems

ALAMO

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Post n°267

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

ALAMO Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:27 am

flamming_python wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:As for the superstructure , it is well known that they are fiberglass structures. It is lighter and more stealthy then metal which is highly reflective. They are flammable, but in combat situation really wont make a difference if your on the receiving end of 500kg warhead.

Didn't even take combat to take out this vessel utterly, as it seems

You are switching on the drama mode much too often my friend Laughing

Just an accident, a quite common in the shipbuilding business. Some of them are an effect of negligence, some of them just happen. The industry is a risky business, that is why they are insured Laughing

Good that no one is dead.
I remember we had an explosion on the slipway once, as the shift was painting the cargo bays and had not done proper ventilation after. Another shift was welding some shit on the deck, and the remaining gases from painting just cooked off. Fatal casualties occurred. Ships burned several times either. Yards are very dangerous places, first of all. They are using different processes involving flammable materials, explosive gases etc. Those things are just a part of this business.

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flamming_python

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Post n°268

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

flamming_python Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:38 am

ALAMO wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:As for the superstructure , it is well known that they are fiberglass structures. It is lighter and more stealthy then metal which is highly reflective. They are flammable, but in combat situation really wont make a difference if your on the receiving end of 500kg warhead.

Didn't even take combat to take out this vessel utterly, as it seems

You are switching on the drama mode much too often my friend
Just an accident, a quite common in the shipbuilding business. Some of them are an effect of negligence, some of them just happen. The industry is a risky business, that is why they are insured
Good that no one is dead.
I remember we had an explosion on the slipway once, as the shift was painting the cargo bays and had not done proper ventilation after. Another shift was welding some shit on the deck, and the remaining gases from painting just cooked off. Fatal casualties occurred. Ships burned several times either. Yards are very dangerous places, first of all. They are using different processes involving flammable materials, explosive gases etc. Those things are just a part of this business.

And I'm glad no-one died ALAMO

Now the question is about recalling this whole class for major rework, because these ships are major liabilities, and we don't need potentially dozens of dead sailors from even one accident.

Probably not just this class, if this fiberglass shit is prevalent.

Flammable materials are present during operation as well. The question is not about what flammable materials are present and the danger of fires starting, but about why does the whole bloody thing burn down.

ALAMO

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Post n°269

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

ALAMO Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:07 am

Fiberglass in not flammable. In theory Laughing

That is why I suppose it was something that burned and melted it. It is about 500degC to make it to the melting point, so nothing really fancy is needed.
I suspect the paint to be the cause here.

GarryB

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Post n°270

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

GarryB Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:17 pm

So many people who can't take bad news... get over it.

As shown by American and Chinese ship fires fires happen.

This ship did not have its fire fighting system active so of course it is going to burn why do you think they fit these ships with fire fighting systems and equipment... because they burn...

There was no one killed and it sounds like the engine and rear area of the ship is fine... I would say take out the engine and put it in a new ship and just get over this little mishap.

Sounds like it wasn't fitted with its radar and main electronics... I suspect the cylinders they were worried about would mean there was a lot of wielding going on still which suggests structural work was being done unless they were air compressor cylinders and they were painting.

Either way grow a pair, work out what happened and take steps to make sure it does not happen again and either repair and complete the ship or get it out of there and lay down another one.

Arrow

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Post n°271

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

Arrow Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:10 pm

Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2 - Page 11 64350aadf796

Arkanghelsk

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Post n°272

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

Arkanghelsk Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:42 pm

Fiberglass itself is technically not flammable, I know those minesweeper of the 12700 class are vacuum infused fiberglass hulls.

Fiberglass offers a host of advantages over metal or wood that are obvious. Lightness, ease of repair, for military setting they are not reflective. Above all, they are quickly manufactured due to the less tool and labor intense requirement of building fiberglass moulds. Only thing is they could be highly toxic and irritating to skin and lungs.

I would think this could be the result of leaving paint materials lying around like gel coat which work very well on fiberglass.

most common gelcoats are thermosetting polymers based on epoxy or unsaturated polyester resin chemistry. They are also really flammable. Also could be acrylic urethane based paints. Any spark nearby with large amount of these resins, epoxy, or paints around would result in large fire. Especially if work was recently done without proper setting procedure.

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PapaDragon

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Post n°273

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

PapaDragon Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:48 pm

It seems that not even main gun was installed. Good news? Wrong

That would indicate that ship was hilariously behind schedule even though it was supposed to be delivered next year

Theory (solid one) making rounds is that management ordered this fire to hide incompetence, regular occurrence in Russian construction business

Arkanghelsk

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Post n°274

Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

Arkanghelsk Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:04 pm

PapaDragon wrote:
It seems that not even main gun was installed. Good news? Wrong

That would indicate that ship was hilariously behind schedule even though it was supposed to be delivered next year

Theory (solid one) making rounds is that management ordered this fire to hide incompetence, regular occurrence in Russian construction business

In khabib nurmagomedov words:

This is numba wan bullsh*t

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calripson

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Post n°275

Sabotage

calripson Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:08 pm

The perfect time to create an incident like this is when flammable coatings/paint are being applied - a simple gel capsule containing the correct catalyst left in a container calculated to dissolve and ignite in a few hours. Why those material would be left next to the ship and unattended at night is beyond me other than pure laziness. Why there isn't a 24/7 security detail also beyond me. Why they aren't working 24 hour shifts for a ship laid down in 2013 also beyond me.

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Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

Unforgivable

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Re: Project 20380(5): Steregushchy Corvette #2

No Kidding

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Sabotage

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