2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Hole wrote:If all these drone strike videos would be real there would be no more armenian army and the azeris could ride into Erevan on horsebacks. From the experience in Idlib and Libya I would say that half of the videos are fake. There were something like 20 successful strikes and they are shown now from every possible angle + videos from azeri or turkish maneuvers.

There are likely over 800KIA as it stands. Probably twice as much WIA.

The damage is now exclusively done by UCAV. On the ground ARM are good, damn fucking good. The moment someone figures out the UCAV issue, the strike back will be hard.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Hole wrote:If all these drone strike videos would be real there would be no more armenian army and the azeris could ride into Erevan on horsebacks. From the experience in Idlib and Libya I would say that half of the videos are fake. There were something like 20 successful strikes and they are shown now from every possible angle + videos from azeri or turkish maneuvers.

There are likely over 800KIA as it stands. Probably twice as much WIA.

The damage is now exclusively done by UCAV. On the ground ARM are good, damn fucking good. The moment someone figures out the UCAV issue, the strike back will be hard.

UCAV has radio link between operator and aircraft. Jam the radio, the aircraft crashes.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/11/europe/turkey-analysis-erdogan-intl/index.html

To rescue its economy, Turkey may join China-Russia camp, but that will entail shelving pan-Turkism & ending support for Azerbaijan vs. Armenia. Time will tell!

Yes good idea about jamming. A detector needed to record frequency?  To set jamming frequency?  But someone said  AAA , not used effectively now. Can help them with targeting practice. Optics and range finders. Have the Armenians any light prop driven planes? Simply arm with machine gun, and send to Hunt UCAV, mix with them, over operational area. Their SAM, useless, or shoot down own UCAV. My guess is that, the Azeri drone, operated by no more than a dozen controllers at a time. Meaning, on any attack, no more than a dozen  flying together. Hardly a swarm. Save BM for now. A bit of overkill. Use only if Azer attack vital economic target, in retaliation. The simple way to neutralise advancing armour, just use good anti - Tank, plenty of it. Use from hidden fox hole. Prepared earlier, but may be vacant, until they advance by armour. Their UCAV, can not identify . Their camera sees in IR. keep yourself cool. Give them something hot to look at.......by

nomadski wrote:Yes good idea about jamming. A detector needed to record frequency?  To set jamming frequency?  But someone said  AAA , not used effectively now. Can help them with targeting practice. Optics and range finders. Have the Armenians any light prop driven planes? Simply arm with machine gun, and send to Hunt UCAV, mix with them, over operational area. Their SAM, useless, or shoot down own UCAV. My guess is that, the Azeri drone, operated by no more than a dozen controllers at a time. Meaning, on any attack, no more than a dozen  flying together. Hardly a swarm. Save BM for now. A bit of overkill. Use only if Azer attack vital economic target, in retaliation. The simple way to neutralise advancing armour, just use good anti - Tank, plenty of it. Use from hidden fox hole. Prepared earlier, but may be vacant, until they advance by armour. Their UCAV, can not identify . Their camera sees in IR. keep yourself cool. Give them something hot to look at.......by

Fly fucking planes, IRST should allow to take out the TB’s. Get every crop duster up in the air pop out the AK’s and shoot.

By the time russians should have figured out the frequencies used by turkish drones. Their Krashuka and other EW/ELINT systems are constantly monitoring them in Syria and Libya.

The best solution is still to target their operation center which Russia should be tracking.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Hole wrote:If all these drone strike videos would be real there would be no more armenian army and the azeris could ride into Erevan on horsebacks. From the experience in Idlib and Libya I would say that half of the videos are fake. There were something like 20 successful strikes and they are shown now from every possible angle + videos from azeri or turkish maneuvers.

There are likely over 800KIA as it stands. Probably twice as much WIA.

The damage is now exclusively done by UCAV. On the ground ARM are good, damn fucking good. The moment someone figures out the UCAV issue, the strike back will be hard.

Shouldn't Manpads do?

Recent videos show that drones are hitting opportunistic targets and not supporting Azeri operations. It could mean that Azeris want to consolidate their gains.

Not sure about strike back, Armenians could be too exhausted.. whole geography of the area favours defenders, it's impossible to disperse troops and tunneling happens. Azerbaijan has advantage in artillery systems as well.

Babak Taghvaee - Μπάπακ Τακβαίε - بابک تقوایی (B)
·
3h
My article about how #Russia has left #Armenia alone after #Azerbaijan's invasion in #Artsakh/#NagornoKarabakh & its reasons. #Russia has 18 MiG-29 fighter jets, over 40 T-72B3 & T-90 tanks & SAM systems such as S-300V4 in Armenia but never used them to confront Azerbaijan

Smh
Azeris - cursing Russia because of ceasefire
Armenians - cursing Russia for not helping

Regular wrote:Smh
Azeris - cursing Russia because of ceasefire
Armenians - cursing Russia for not helping

It's classic post-soviet state of mind: something wrong? F*&king Russians did it.

There are 50 ethno- linguistic enclaves in the Caucases. They exist in several cross border areas. The way to stop ethnic conflict, by Russia or international community, is to stop military advances by one ethnic group, into another ethnic group area. Stop ethnic conflict. Ethnic cleansing.

Then these regions have time to find solutions. Over the long term. Decide on forming alliances etc. No enclave, should be subject to limitations on free trade or movement, unless it occupies another enclave. Or engages in offensive war. A law of the enclaves.

An enclave can decide to subject itself to national law, or it's own law. Or another state law. Since these fractured societies , can be moved slowly, into greater unions. If at all. But greater unions are possible, due to national formation, then this will be peaceful process..

This fracturing, seems to be a consequence of geography. Exists across all regions, with geographic choke point, where many civilizations meet. The Balkans. Holy Land..... Narrow land bridges between larger bodies.....City states may only be possible, in such locations.....

Well, a lot of people in here are similar to these shitty former Soviet states by blaming Russia for not intervening anyway.

We see again, that a mere political or religious dictat, lacking in political science and foresight and subject to internal political pressure, can bring about a worsening of the crisis.

I talk about neutrality, saving human lives, avoiding refugees, a balance of forces. Saving all of us from expansionism. A gateway for trade. And some talk about liberating Islamic lands !  (  they will end up with Neo - Ottoman  Turks , shoving their spears up Iranian Muslim assets, breaking Iran up), at the expense of ethnic cleansing of Armenians from ancestral land, they live on. And some don't know what to say or do.


https://en.mehrnews.com/news/164574/Karabakh-part-of-Islamic-world-must-be-liberated-cleric

Mindstorm wrote:
1) radar structure is absolutely not compatible with those integrated in C-300 systems even of the outdated type operative in Armenia soil (and anyway not in the are Nagorno-Karabakh area)

This video clearly shows that Armenian S 300 were effectively targeted and destroyed

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1314859119363395584?s=20

Kalashnikov produces its own loitoring munition that they say is very cheap. They say it has a range of 70km and 1kg warhead. Maybe they should buy 200-300 of them as a deterrance against an invasion.




Wiki says 1000km for IAI Harop loitoring munition used by Azerbaijan. I wonder its true range. Generally if you want more than 200km range you need satellite datalink because ground based stations loose signal after 200km. Maybe it's truely 1000km but not if stays within a certain radius. Harop is more than 2m long so quite possible.

Fire after ceasefire: https://www.bbc.com/russian/media-54502413

Aliev: https://lenta.ru/news/2020/10/11/save/



In Nagorno-Karabakh, a request was made to Armenia for recognition of independence
https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5f82e6c59a7947fc2ad1699b

Where does Iran stand on Armenia’s conflict with Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh?

Isos wrote:

Wiki says 1000km for IAI Harop loitoring munition used by Azerbaijan. I wonder its true range. Generally if you want more than 200km range you need satellite datalink because ground based stations loose signal after 200km. Maybe it's truely 1000km but not if stays within a certain radius. Harop is more than 2m long so quite possible.

Or being autonumous. Which Harop does. It has its own program, if it detects radar emission. it will home in. Otherwise it may continue loiter or return to base.

The 1000 km range is perhaps the range without the loitering. If it loiters then the range is shorter as the fuel would be conserved for hours loitering in the sky "waiting" for target.

RTN wrote:

Mindstorm wrote:
1) radar structure is absolutely not compatible with those integrated in C-300 systems even of the outdated type operative in Armenia soil (and anyway not in the are Nagorno-Karabakh area)

 This video clearly shows that Armenian S 300 were effectively targeted and destroyed

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1314859119363395584?s=20

I would provide a timestamp if you want to point to a specific moment in a video that is minutes long.

Stealthflanker wrote:

Isos wrote:

Wiki says 1000km for IAI Harop loitoring munition used by Azerbaijan. I wonder its true range. Generally if you want more than 200km range you need satellite datalink because ground based stations loose signal after 200km. Maybe it's truely 1000km but not if stays within a certain radius. Harop is more than 2m long so quite possible.

Or being autonumous.  Which Harop does. It has its own program, if it detects radar emission. it will home in. Otherwise it may continue loiter or return to base.

The 1000 km range is perhaps the range without the loitering.  If it loiters then the range is shorter as the fuel would be conserved for hours loitering in the sky "waiting" for target.

It's also used for optical targeting. And I asked the range for that role.

The SEAD programmed can be fooled by fake radars spreed all over the battlefield. The auto discrimination btw real and fake radars must quite poor.

UCAV has radio link between operator and aircraft. Jam the radio, the aircraft crashes.

Not how most drones work.

The radio link is generally a datalink that sends information from the drone to the operator so they can see the video footage the drone is collecting, and allowing the drone operator to change flight waypoints or turn the camera to select targets etc, but most of the time the drones fly by themselves on preprogrammed flight paths.

Most drones will return to base if their datalink is jammed or lost... and if you could track them would be a good way to find where they were being launched from.

Few proper sophisticated drones are manually flown by the operator.

Yes good idea about jamming. A detector needed to record frequency? To set jamming frequency? But someone said AAA , not used effectively now. Can help them with targeting practice. Optics and range finders. Have the Armenians any light prop driven planes? Simply arm with machine gun, and send to Hunt UCAV, mix with them, over operational area. Their SAM, useless, or shoot down own UCAV. My guess is that, the Azeri drone, operated by no more than a dozen controllers at a time. Meaning, on any attack, no more than a dozen flying together. Hardly a swarm. Save BM for now. A bit of overkill. Use only if Azer attack vital economic target, in retaliation. The simple way to neutralise advancing armour, just use good anti - Tank, plenty of it. Use from hidden fox hole. Prepared earlier, but may be vacant, until they advance by armour. Their UCAV, can not identify . Their camera sees in IR. keep yourself cool. Give them something hot to look at.......by

If you are going to use EW then use it to locate the signals from the operators and strike those positions with artillery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjN0lU2B_os

Most drones will return to base if their datalink is jammed or lost... and if you could track them would be a good way to find where they were being launched from.

Well they use GPS most of the time for that so jamming GPS will make them go in random directions.

Most of the hand jammer that looks like a rifle have a range of 1-2km which isn't enough.

Where Azeris are making advances, to regain lost territory , then I think Armenia should withdraw forces, and international community, should not help defend them.

Where Armenia are defending their own ethnic area, then international community, should help them to defend this area.

So to help protect both communities, defensive posture, should be encouraged. Defensive weapons. Some weapons, by nature are more defensive. By being short range. Anti - aircraft or Anti - Tank or small arms. Capable to be used, in local defence.

Targeting deep inside other's territory, although seems initially efficient. Expands the war, to beyond immediate fighting area. Also the world community, should avoid arming any side with weapons that give any side a great offensive advantage. Such as missiles or planes.

The solution remains a political solution. The fractured nature of the caucases, is an oddity. A product of geography. A busy passageway for different peoples. Like the Holy land. The reason the Jews or Palestinians became refugees. Red Sea pedestrians. Or people in Caucases, being subject to emigration or expulsions. It is like, trying to pitch a tent, in a busy passageway of shopping centre.

So this fragmentation, should be accepted, to large extent. In these regions. Greater or total autonomy for ethnic groups. Together with international cooperation, to maintain these populations in peace.

Regular wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Hole wrote:If all these drone strike videos would be real there would be no more armenian army and the azeris could ride into Erevan on horsebacks. From the experience in Idlib and Libya I would say that half of the videos are fake. There were something like 20 successful strikes and they are shown now from every possible angle + videos from azeri or turkish maneuvers.

There are likely over 800KIA as it stands. Probably twice as much WIA.

The damage is now exclusively done by UCAV. On the ground ARM are good, damn fucking good. The moment someone figures out the UCAV issue, the strike back will be hard.

Shouldn't Manpads do?

Recent videos show that drones are hitting opportunistic targets and not supporting Azeri operations. It could mean that Azeris want to consolidate their gains.

Not sure about strike back, Armenians could be too exhausted.. whole geography of the area favours defenders, it's impossible to disperse troops and tunneling happens. Azerbaijan has advantage in artillery systems as well.

Hi reg,

Well there are three phases going on.

Two are intertwined one is a stand alone.

Tools.

°PF-98/AN-2
°Harop/Harpy
°Orbiter/Heron
°TB-2's


1. AN-2's/PF-98 scout up, get shot.
2. Swarms of Drones are sent in to open a fray, usually smaller Orbiters and Harop's Harpy's. about 10/15% get shot, the rest do damage.
3. TB-2's follow up. I suspect only one was shot so far, they do damage, moderate on Tanks, more on light vehicles and artillery.
4. Bigger Herons pass up after the TB-2's to do actual BDA.

Pure SUAV's are israeli and they are in couple with the Orbiters given you cannot do BDA once the SUAV is gone.
They are until now followed up by TB's which are larger and quiter but also (were) actually easier to detect...

Turks are trying to afford the Azeris enough room to have a secure perimetre so they can move up asap. Problem is that they are not using too many TB-2's, I think about 12 of them In comparison with the about 24 in Syria and over 40 in Libya.