2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

Chinese Ultron retard.

No, Pashin is pro west. He was sucking up and even promised EU that he was planning to leave CSTO.

You are a special kind of stupid

miketheterrible wrote:Chinese Ultron retard.

No, Pashin is pro west. He was sucking up and even promised EU that he was planning to leave CSTO.

You are a special kind of stupid

And Russians are gullible enough to believe western propaganda. Pushinyan kicked out the corrupt oligarchs who are Russian. He did it for Armenia which has been plagued by Russian oligarchs for 30 years. Russians try to keep its neighbors poor and dependent. Armenia is doing what Azerbaijan did to Russia. Kick out the Russia oligarchs and become prosperous.

Anyway, Pushinyan is stepping down and Biden / Harris building US military base in Armenia.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/11/russian-peacekeepers-arrive-to-armenia-for-nagorno-karabakh-live

franco wrote:

Pacense wrote:How Armenia is supposed to sustain that small territory they were allowed to keep, in the future, without full recognition of it by Azerbaijan is beyond my comprehension.

I also dont see how the lost of a territory, no matter how poor it is (although we already read it here it has some minerals) from a Indo-European+Eastern Orthodox Christian nation, to a Turkish+Muslim nation, is a win to Russia.

The area being returned was originally Azeri land taken from them in the last war 30 years ago. NK is actually a small enclave of Armenian's in mountainous terrain surrounded by Azerbaijan people and territory. During the last war the Armenian's had taken control of all the Azeri land separating Armenia proper and the NK. This land minus a corridor is being returned to Azerbaijan.  

you are mistaken dude.. this are not "Azeri lands" , azerbaijan did not exist as an independent nation
before the soviet union. the father creator of azerbaijan was the soviets.. and those lands that today azerbaijan live and not in conflict.. those were iranian/persia lands ,that they lost in war to russian empire.. and if you go even earlier in history ,those lands of nagorno karabah were rightfully lands
of armenia ,one of the oldest countries in the world with more than 2500 years of history.  the first country in the world to convert to christianity..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maps_of_the_Armenian_Empire_of_Tigranes.gif


So if aliev wants to restore the nagorno karabah lands to its historical owners..as he claimed on the media , then he will need to demand all azeris to return to iran.. because thats from where they belong.. those lands that azerbaijan are , are lands that persian empire stole from armenia ,and russian empire took back ,but then soviet gave it muslim again because they saw the orthodox christians as a threat to the soviet union ,that removed orthodox churchers from all russia. those were armenians lands for far far far more years than azerbaijan have of history ,less than 100 years..  armenians in fact had lands all the way to turkey and they lost hose lands with the invasions of the muslim and mongols and the turkey genocide also was all about to remove armenians from turkey ,so they migrated to the higher elevated mountains for protection.. if you dig deep inside of azerbaijan territory all the way to baku ,you will find lots of history of armenia , of their belonging.. those are armenian lands and period.. not turkey ,azeris or iranian lands.. armenia was first there ..even before europe was europe.. armenian ancestors lived there and they always rejected islam.. this is why they were attacked by every muslim empire in the zone...

Neither russia ,neither armenia officially recognized nagorno karabah as armenian land for the obvious reasons to avoid a war with azerbaijan that claimed those lands why? because stalin gave it to them..     this is not different than when nikita krushev passed crimea to ukraine.. all that was done for political reasons ,to win elections in moscow.. but the soviet union will have NEVER passed those lands to azerbaijan if azerbaijan was not part of soviet union territory. neither crimean will have been given to ukraine if it was a nation independent of soviet union.   azeris only play with history ,to justify the stealing of armenia lands... and they follow russia advices of not declaring their lands theirs officially to not provoke the muslim to attack armenia..  notice how the same thing happens with taiwan.. they don't officially recognize taiwan as an independent nation china will not allow it.. they are part of china under united nations.. and participate in olympics as an autonomous zone of china.. so is just lip service to avoid a war..

imagine if china started a war against taiwan to capture those lands that are officially their territory?
will you support that? so is ridiculous this entire azerbaijan vs armenia conflict. at least in china case ,taiwan was indeed chinese land.. but the invaders are the azeris ,because those were armenian lands ,way before islam exist and even before europe was europe ,when was ruled by seminaked natives.. before the roman empire times.

According to Tonoyan Russia cut off military hardware sale to Armenia, or else Armenia would have won. Russia orchestrated Armenian defeat solely for Russia to have military base in Azerbaijan as part of ceasefire agreement. This is why Russia has lost Armenia in its sphere of influence for good.

https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/js8ix6/russia_cut_off_weapons_sales_to_us_during_the_war/

Tai Hai Chen wrote:Two things are certain after this conflict.

1. Armenia reduces reliance on Russia, which did nothing when Azerbaijan shelled Armenia proper. US base in Armenia to be set up by Biden / Harris to defend Armenia from Turkics.

and

2. Armenia vastly increases its own military capability. Wing Loong 10 here we come.

Your 1st point makes impossible your 2nd point.

If US set up a base in Armenia then Armenia will need to buy for at least 1 billion $ worth of equipment from US firms. They will go bankrupt and US will go away because turkish economy + Bosphorus are more important than empty Armenia for them.

Isos wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:Two things are certain after this conflict.

1. Armenia reduces reliance on Russia, which did nothing when Azerbaijan shelled Armenia proper. US base in Armenia to be set up by Biden / Harris to defend Armenia from Turkics.

and

2. Armenia vastly increases its own military capability. Wing Loong 10 here we come.

Your 1st point makes impossible your 2nd point.

If US set up a base in Armenia then Armenia will need to buy for at least 1 billion $ worth of equipment from US firms. They will go bankrupt and US will go away because turkish economy + Bosphorus are more important than empty Armenia for them.

Turkey is US lackey. While US has military bases in Georgia and Azerbaijan, they neighbor Russia. Armenia has Georgia and Azerbaijan as buffers while being very close to Mozdok. US military base in Armenia is serious threat to Russia.

Armenia is rich in minerals. That + lots of US foreign aid is more than enough to buy F-16. Hell, they could probably trade in their Su-30SM for F-16C Block 50 right now if they want to.

I was wondering if Georgia was allowing flights now.

"Georgia now opens its airspace to Russian heavy military transport aircraft en route to Armenia. So the Georgians not letting these through all this time was not due to their 2008 conflict with Russia, but on Azerbaijan's orders."

franco wrote:I was wondering if Georgia was allowing flights now.

"Georgia now opens its airspace to Russian heavy military transport aircraft en route to Armenia. So the Georgians not letting these through all this time was not due to their 2008 conflict with Russia, but on Azerbaijan's orders."

I'm surprised Georgia allows Russian flights through. I though Georgia is at war with Russia.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:According to Tonoyan Russia cut off military hardware sale to Armenia, or else Armenia would have won. Russia orchestrated Armenian defeat solely for Russia to have military base in Azerbaijan as part of ceasefire agreement. This is why Russia has lost Armenia in its sphere of influence for good.

https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/js8ix6/russia_cut_off_weapons_sales_to_us_during_the_war/

that report comes from radioliberty.. a US ngo

anyway russia was arming armenia during the conflict.. so those claims are false..
thats how they got torns and pantsirs and electronic warfare.. armenia was shuting down more drones
lately.. perhaps if there is anything of true of those claims it is that russia did not sold it.. but give it away for free.. Armenia received a lot of help of russia. and still was defeated , pashinyan even uploaded in twitter a picture of brand new tors defenses not long ago.. so those claims are totally false disinformation ,seeking to anger armenians more of what they already are (and deserve to be angered) with russia . Putin preffered to sacrifice armenians interest than have to go to war with azerbajian.. which is perfectly fine.. russia can do that..

but what is very wrong is for putin ,to create alliances all over the world ,that he knows russia will have problems to help ,with paper promises alliances, of protecting them if their territory attacked and later do nothing about it..

imagine if you have a friend that encourage you to defend and fight their hostile neighbors..
and he promise you ,that if your neighbors attack you and try to remove you from your house ,
that they will come to your help.. but when the hostilities began your friend do nothing and leave you
mostly alone dealing with the agressors..? this is a big mistake of russian foreign policy. putin had to warn all their allies ,armenia ,syria ,venezuela ,cuba ,nicaragua and others,..that he don't have the stomach to fight nato or turkey and that if they get in troubles.. they will be on their own.. that way they can take better decisions and better alliances that could truly defend them.. syria and armenia are victims of putin's games ,of sacrificing their allies and use them as guinea pigs.. and people should have the right to be upset with putin.. and armenia will do right to make an alliance
with nato for protection. and kick russia from there.. they will do a favor to putin ,will save them a ton of money in budget and will teach the russian government that is a mistake to try to be the bodyguard of the orthodox christian world. when russia power projection capabilities are very limited.

https://caucasus.liveuamap.com/en/2020/11-november-russian-ministry-of-defense-published-map-of

Tai Hai Chen wrote:Protest in Armenia getting bigger by the minute. Pushinyan is done. Pushinyan will be replaced by a pro west man. I can see Belarus and Armenia out of Russian sphere by next year.

Wrong again Chicken Little, protestors were destroying Soro's Foundation offices in Yerevan.

https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1326254237391720449

Keep twisting the facts to suit your narrative, your hero Pussynian was a Pro-West cum dumpster.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

franco wrote:I was wondering if Georgia was allowing flights now.

"Georgia now opens its airspace to Russian heavy military transport aircraft en route to Armenia. So the Georgians not letting these through all this time was not due to their 2008 conflict with Russia, but on Azerbaijan's orders."

I'm surprised Georgia allows Russian flights through. I though Georgia is at war with Russia.

this is to save face the georgian government for the critisizm of georgians for siding with azerbaijan..and their criminal cooperation with azerbaijan , after allowing turkey flights with alqaeda
fighters to constantly fuel the war against armenia.. what russia should do now .is tell them no thanks.. and start full scale sanctions of georgia for cooperating with the attacks on armenia by terrorist from idlib..and declare full sanctions on georgia ,so the citizens , kick their government
from power ,to incite a coup there. and in fact if russia was provoked into a fight , with azeris ,they should have do a naval blockade on georgia in retaliation for they opening the airspace to attack armenia.

Absolute gangster move by Russia.
26 years not being able to get into NK and finally there.

For everyone saying why should Russia get involved? Well now Russia has a tripwire in Artsakh.
Pash as a collateral damage...this is so cold.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
Turkey is US lackey. While US has military bases in Georgia and Azerbaijan, they neighbor Russia. Armenia has Georgia and Azerbaijan as buffers while being very close to Mozdok. US military base in Armenia is serious threat to Russia.

Armenia is rich in minerals. That + lots of US foreign aid is more than enough to buy F-16. Hell, they could probably trade in their Su-30SM for F-16C Block 50 right now if they want to.

Russia would destroy those su-30 and bomb the shit out of Armenia before it happens.

Armenia is a poir and empty country. They don't have the money for allowing a US base there.

A US base would in Armenia would be an easy target for both Russia and Iran. The first hour of a conflict it would be reduced to dust.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Absolute gangster move by Russia.
26 years not being able to get into NK and finally there.

And 2000 peacekeepers is too much for peacekeeping activities in such small territory. That's clearly an invasion of NK.

They need to bring 1 buk system and 4 pantsir to deny the airspace to drones.

Isos wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
Turkey is US lackey. While US has military bases in Georgia and Azerbaijan, they neighbor Russia. Armenia has Georgia and Azerbaijan as buffers while being very close to Mozdok. US military base in Armenia is serious threat to Russia.

Armenia is rich in minerals. That + lots of US foreign aid is more than enough to buy F-16. Hell, they could probably trade in their Su-30SM for F-16C Block 50 right now if they want to.

Russia would destroy those su-30 and bomb the shit out of Armenia before it happens.

Armenia is a poir and empty country. They don't have the money for allowing a US base there.

A US base would in Armenia would be an easy target for both Russia and Iran. The first hour of a conflict it would be reduced to dust.

Armenia doesn't need to be rich to become a US base. The problem is that then Armenia finds itself into a gang-bang with everyone in the region shitting upon them.

Isos wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
Turkey is US lackey. While US has military bases in Georgia and Azerbaijan, they neighbor Russia. Armenia has Georgia and Azerbaijan as buffers while being very close to Mozdok. US military base in Armenia is serious threat to Russia.

Armenia is rich in minerals. That + lots of US foreign aid is more than enough to buy F-16. Hell, they could probably trade in their Su-30SM for F-16C Block 50 right now if they want to.

Armenia is a poir and empty country. They don't have the money for allowing a US base there.

That's what everyone said about Israel, which is even smaller than Armenia. US prints as much money as it wants. Now Israel is one of the most heavily armed countries with hundreds of fighter jets. Greece too. Armenia can be armed with hundreds of F-16 on US dime.

Isos wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Absolute gangster move by Russia.
26 years not being able to get into NK and finally there.

And 2000 peacekeepers is too much for peacekeeping activities in such small territory. That's clearly an invasion of NK.

They need to bring 1 buk system and 4 pantsir to deny the airspace to drones.

if russia wanted to have soldiers in nagorno karabah.. they only had to ask armenia and they will have
them there long time ago.. that way nagorno not bombed for russia "peace keepers " there ,block azerbaijan from attacking nagorno..  so try a better argument next time..  this is not a "victory" to russia. but a major set back in the zone.. Turkey and azerbaijan forzed putin into surrender nagorno karabah..this is what happened. and russia image in the world is seen as a clear defeat not only because their allies lost territory ,that all armenians consider is theirs.. but also because russian air defenses ,that were used to help armenia ,most of them were destroyed including s-300s ,torns and pantsirs.. so this is not a victory but a partial defeat to russia.. don't be surprised if in the next
6 to 10 months the conflict start again. and russian soldiers bombed , but this time nato will be there to help azerbaijan in a more direct way.. so putin will have american forces in azerbaijan in little time
and possible patriot defenses or israel air defenses aiming at all russian planes flying towards iran direction to bring supplies to syria.. eventually russia air space bridge to syria will be cut by nato in baku.. so this is really a major set back to russia.. and tactical retreat.. one of their biggest fears of nato in the caspian sea will become a reality now.

and again you are in delusion if you believe  (1 buk  = 4 missiles)  + (4 pantsirs = 4 x 12? = 48 missiles) can't protect russian forces there.. they can't... not mentioning russian positions will be at
cheap artillery range but also sniper rifle range..of azerbaijan soldiers.. so effectively erdogan predictions turned to be true... he warned putin ,that he will get another idlib.. and this is exactly what russia got in nk.. with the major huge difference ,that in NK it will not be russia the one that control the airspace. as they do in syria. instead it will be turkey and israeli drones..  so russia will be in a major disadvantage in nk.. in a purely defensive war ,that is ,where russia only intercept misssiles but don't punish the aggressors .
you all will be for a major big ugly surprise when russian peacekers get stomped there by azeris ,israelis and turkey by their artillery and drones..and later they will blame it on idlib rebels..
indeed putin face now a major complicated security problem in armenia that will never end ,until azerbaijan and turkey defeated in a full war. NATO will be in the sidelines providing all kinds of modern weapons to kill russians  . So putin worse days still yet to come.

Pashinyan is given until midnight to resign. We shall see what happens.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Absolute gangster move by Russia.
26 years not being able to get into NK and finally there.

For everyone saying why should Russia get involved? Well now Russia has a tripwire in Artsakh.
Pash as a collateral damage...this is so cold.

Told ya'

Modern geopolitics is one cold nasty bitch

All those Ex-Soviet states assume that old USSR emotional approach that they all complained about still applies when it suits them and that something is owed to them by Russia/World/God/Cosmos

They just can't wrap their heads around the fact that they are not as important and indispensable as they think they are

PapaDragon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Absolute gangster move by Russia.
26 years not being able to get into NK and finally there.

For everyone saying why should Russia get involved? Well now Russia has a tripwire in Artsakh.
Pash as a collateral damage...this is so  cold.

Told ya'

Modern geopolitics is one cold nasty bitch

All those Ex-Soviet states assume that old USSR emotional approach that they all complained about still applies when it suits them and that something is owed to them by Russia/World/God/Cosmos

They just can't wrap their heads around the fact that they are not as important and indispensable as they think they are

In fact they were just bad at learning history: they will bite each other's throats again, and Russia will come to the empty lands. As it was three hundred years ago. They never learned anything *sigh*.

So Russia sending in peacekeepers is a gangster move, eh?

Wow, such BS it is right off the meter. If Russia did not take any action there would have been no NK and local Armenians left.
As usual we see the demented double standards applied to Russia. Pussynians whoring for Russia's enemies is supposedly
a total non-issue and certainly not a "gangster move", but Russia securing a peace deal when Pussynian's Armenia did precisely
fuck all to save NK is in the wrong.

Seriously, put the crack pipe down. What is it with you Blakanoids. You want Turkish rule so badly, do you?

That kind of makes sense.

Please to all : stop to portray the conflict and elaborate your lines reasoning putting on the opposing side of the Azerbijani Forces (with the active support of Turkey and injection of Syrian radical mercenary troops) Armenia Armed Forces; it could happen authomatically but remain an enormous idiocy.


The opposing force of the Azerbaijani Army and theirs foreign supporters was the self-proclaimed Repubblic of Artsakh's armed Forces ; the Armenian Army remained in Armenian territory.

1st ,2st, 3st, 4st, 5st Army Corps of Armenian Army do not moved a single element over the Armenian border to attacks the Azeri forces (that was obviously terribly stretched and vulnerable during theirs offensive).

The reason is that formally the same Armenia lack any legal ground to begin an operation in what is universally considered Azeri territory and ,therefore, a direct attack on Azerbaijan' Forces acting within theirs internationally recognized terroitory would have been equivalent to an open and active act of aggression and invasion against a sovereign state in its territory.

The result would have been an instantaneous total comdemnation by part of United Nation, the forced alienation of the foreign nations backing them and likely economical e geopolitical insultaion ; moreover Azerbaijani could have gained the possibility , as nation object of a military aggression condemed by United Nation to call in legally Turkey forces ,while Armenia would have lost chances to request Federation's intervention at the senses of the ОДКБ treaty being legally the aggressor.

Therefore Armenian Armed Forces could have very easily mass attacked and dispersed the Azeri's Army already stretched and wekeaned attacking lines, very likely causing immense and unbearable lossses on the Azeri forces and almost certainly also overturning completely the inertia of the conflct, but that would have caused Turkey to intervene directly in the conflict after a formal request by part of Azerbaijan -with undeniable legal basis - while contemporaneously losing the life insurance represented by ОДКБ mutual obligation.

The following military situation would have jeopardized probably the same existence of the Armeniana state.


Anyway is important to compare the two sided for what them was : the Armenian Army (with support of Turkey and middle East foreign mercenary groups) against the self-proclaimed Republic of Artsakh's Army (with several fortified positions and support of Armenia).

There's no way Pashinyan can stay in power business as usual. Napoleon had to abdicate after losing Franco Prussian war. Argentine government had to resign after losing Falklands war. Cypriot government had to resign after losing northern Cyprus. Eyes on new Armenian government post Pashinyan. It's most likely something like the new Ukrainian government post Euromaidan.

I wouldn't be surprised Georgia, Armenia, Ukraine become EU member states within the next few years. They hate Russia because Russia is dictator where Putin is president for life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia%E2%80%93European_Union_relations

@Mindstorm:

Absolutely true, but you see, the thread is clogged with BS and trolls are partying. It has got difficult to even read the news posted here.

Thanks to everyone contributing with reason and facts