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Moderately surprised that the US hasn't brow-beaten Panama into banning Russian ships from the canal given the amount of fuss they make over Russian ships refueling at Ceuta 
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Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2
hoom- Posts : 2352
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JohninMK
JohninMK- Posts : 15649
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Short video of passing through the lock at link. Interesting comment there about why the other ships are not in a little convoy with her. Heading for Venezuela on her own?
https://twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1141288422780395520
https://twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1141288422780395520
JohninMK- Posts : 15649
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Here they come, Elbrus and Kama in the lock in the Panama Canal
JohninMK- Posts : 15649
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Verified account @YorukIsik
51m51 minutes ago
Nikolay Chiker, rescue tug of the Russian Navy #ВМФ Northern Fleet transits Panama Canal, currently under the Bridge of Americas.
George1- Posts : 18522
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PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
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I have been thinking about this deployment/circumnavigation by Gorshkov: could it be that this mission is test run or proof of concept that modern frigate or it's derivative can be used in a same role that was previously reserved for destroyers and cruisers?
Escort missions for larger vessels and long range deployments?
Isos- Posts : 11602
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Frigates have been always able to that but with only 32 air def missiles and 16 cruise missiles and shorter legs it's not going to replace destroyers and nuclear cruiser.
This trip is a test to know what they need if they want to navigate around the world with modern ships.
This trip is a test to know what they need if they want to navigate around the world with modern ships.
JohninMK- Posts : 15649
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Looks like no trip to Venezuela, on route to Jamaica then probably Cuba.
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Verified account @YorukIsik
4h4 hours ago
#RussianNavy to Jamaica: #ВМФ ships #СФ Admiral Gorshkov FFG 454 & tugs Elbrus and Nikolay Chiker are sailing the Caribbean Sea likely en route to Kingston. They are approximately 250nm of Kingston, Jamaica.
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Verified account @YorukIsik
4h4 hours ago
#RussianNavy to Jamaica: #ВМФ ships #СФ Admiral Gorshkov FFG 454 & tugs Elbrus and Nikolay Chiker are sailing the Caribbean Sea likely en route to Kingston. They are approximately 250nm of Kingston, Jamaica.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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Venezuela crisis has ended since 1 month. If Bolton doesn't tweet about them anymore they can sleep peacefully without any Gorshkov by their side 
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3910
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Isos wrote:Frigates have been always able to that but with only 32 air def missiles and 16 cruise missiles and shorter legs it's not going to replace destroyers and nuclear cruiser.
This trip is a test to know what they need if they want to navigate around the world with modern ships.
Hardly the Russian has been sending ships across the globe for years maybe not warships sure but doesn't change much.
They are simply trooping the colors and can actually afford to send the ship out on long-range cause they can.
They are also showing off the ship, it's a PR move just mixed with giving the crew some experience. Since most crews in the Russian navy have never sailed that far away from home.
JohninMK- Posts : 15649
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Scrub my Jamaica idea, looks straight to Cuba
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7h7 hours ago
#RussianNavy to Cuba?: #ВМФ ships #СФ Admiral Gorshkov FFG 454 & tugs Elbrus and Nikolay Chiker are sailing the Caribbean Sea towards Cuba. They are approximately 200nm south of Cayman Islands.
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Verified account @YorukIsik
7h7 hours ago
#RussianNavy to Cuba?: #ВМФ ships #СФ Admiral Gorshkov FFG 454 & tugs Elbrus and Nikolay Chiker are sailing the Caribbean Sea towards Cuba. They are approximately 200nm south of Cayman Islands.
hoom- Posts : 2352
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Just because its going to Cuba first doesn't mean it won't visit Venezuela.
GarryB- Posts : 40543
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Well compared with a Sovremmeny class destroyer... this frigate is pretty well armed... the Sov had two single armed launchers for basically BUK based sams with a total of 48 missiles on board with two launchers with 24 missiles each, plus a total of 8 ready to fire supersonic anti ship missiles that only had a range of 120km, plus it had two good 130mm twin barrel guns with a lot of rounds of ammo plus 4 single 30mm gatling gun CIWS guns and torpedos...
The Gorshkov frigate has one 130mm gun, plus two UKSK launchers for 16 ready to fire anti ship missiles or land attack missiles or anti sub missiles, plus a total of 32 launch tubes for up to 32 9M96 SAMs but for each tube you could alternatively have four 9M100 CIWS missiles as well... so you could have 26 tubes loaded with various combinations of 150km and 50km range SAMs, plus the remaining 6 tubes loaded with 24 short range CIWS missiles for a total of 50 ready to fire missiles if you wanted them. There is also two Kashtan mounts with 24 missiles each for CIWS and of course four 30mm gatling guns and torpedoes.
So really to be fair apart from having one less 130mm gun turret, which is compensated for by having double the main missile load capacity and the flexibility of having anti ship, anti sub, and land attack missile choices for those tubes it is probably rather better armed... the original SA-N-7 missile was rated out to about 35km, and the small sized 9M96 reaches 50km... so it is a lot better off compared with cold war destroyers.
I suspect they will decide whether to send it to venezuela... it might raise tensions where they want things to just calm down...
The Gorshkov frigate has one 130mm gun, plus two UKSK launchers for 16 ready to fire anti ship missiles or land attack missiles or anti sub missiles, plus a total of 32 launch tubes for up to 32 9M96 SAMs but for each tube you could alternatively have four 9M100 CIWS missiles as well... so you could have 26 tubes loaded with various combinations of 150km and 50km range SAMs, plus the remaining 6 tubes loaded with 24 short range CIWS missiles for a total of 50 ready to fire missiles if you wanted them. There is also two Kashtan mounts with 24 missiles each for CIWS and of course four 30mm gatling guns and torpedoes.
So really to be fair apart from having one less 130mm gun turret, which is compensated for by having double the main missile load capacity and the flexibility of having anti ship, anti sub, and land attack missile choices for those tubes it is probably rather better armed... the original SA-N-7 missile was rated out to about 35km, and the small sized 9M96 reaches 50km... so it is a lot better off compared with cold war destroyers.
I suspect they will decide whether to send it to venezuela... it might raise tensions where they want things to just calm down...
JohninMK- Posts : 15649
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Capt(N)
@Capt_Navy
2h2 hours ago
The task group of ships of the #ВМФ #СФ
#Russian #Navy at the head by the RFS 454 Admiral Gorshkov frigate have approached the Cuba.
flamming_python- Posts : 9547
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GarryB wrote:Well compared with a Sovremmeny class destroyer... this frigate is pretty well armed... the Sov had two single armed launchers for basically BUK based sams with a total of 48 missiles on board with two launchers with 24 missiles each, plus a total of 8 ready to fire supersonic anti ship missiles that only had a range of 120km, plus it had two good 130mm twin barrel guns with a lot of rounds of ammo plus 4 single 30mm gatling gun CIWS guns and torpedos...
The Gorshkov frigate has one 130mm gun, plus two UKSK launchers for 16 ready to fire anti ship missiles or land attack missiles or anti sub missiles, plus a total of 32 launch tubes for up to 32 9M96 SAMs but for each tube you could alternatively have four 9M100 CIWS missiles as well... so you could have 26 tubes loaded with various combinations of 150km and 50km range SAMs, plus the remaining 6 tubes loaded with 24 short range CIWS missiles for a total of 50 ready to fire missiles if you wanted them. There is also two Kashtan mounts with 24 missiles each for CIWS and of course four 30mm gatling guns and torpedoes.
So really to be fair apart from having one less 130mm gun turret, which is compensated for by having double the main missile load capacity and the flexibility of having anti ship, anti sub, and land attack missile choices for those tubes it is probably rather better armed... the original SA-N-7 missile was rated out to about 35km, and the small sized 9M96 reaches 50km... so it is a lot better off compared with cold war destroyers.
I suspect they will decide whether to send it to venezuela... it might raise tensions where they want things to just calm down...
It's quite comparable to the Type 45 destroyer in fact.
Except for having considerably less range and endurance (but still respectable). But for the price of one of the UK's destroyer you can procure 3-4 Gorshkovs.
GarryB- Posts : 40543
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Exactly... just in terms of weapons it looks good, but also the range of weapons is better... the Sov just had 8 anti ship missiles, the Udaloy had just 8 missiles optimised for anti sub use that could be used against ships as well... the Gorshkov could carry 8 Onyx missiles or soon hypersonic Zircon missiles AND 8 x 91RE1 40km range mach 2 ballistic rockets that delivers an anti sub torpedo rapidly and silently to the target sub... it has radars and sonar and communications systems that will put the old ships to shame... and it could also carry land attack cruise missiles too if wanted.
The problem is that it is a frigate so rather smaller than an older destroyer with probably less endurance, but in terms of sensors and fire power in some ways it is a combination of Sovremmeny and Udaloy destroyers in one package... which is pretty damn good.
Next boats have an extra UKSK launcher, so 24 primary missiles ready to fire...
The problem is that it is a frigate so rather smaller than an older destroyer with probably less endurance, but in terms of sensors and fire power in some ways it is a combination of Sovremmeny and Udaloy destroyers in one package... which is pretty damn good.
Next boats have an extra UKSK launcher, so 24 primary missiles ready to fire...
kumbor- Posts : 313
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GarryB wrote:Exactly... just in terms of weapons it looks good, but also the range of weapons is better... the Sov just had 8 anti ship missiles, the Udaloy had just 8 missiles optimised for anti sub use that could be used against ships as well... the Gorshkov could carry 8 Onyx missiles or soon hypersonic Zircon missiles AND 8 x 91RE1 40km range mach 2 ballistic rockets that delivers an anti sub torpedo rapidly and silently to the target sub... it has radars and sonar and communications systems that will put the old ships to shame... and it could also carry land attack cruise missiles too if wanted.
The problem is that it is a frigate so rather smaller than an older destroyer with probably less endurance, but in terms of sensors and fire power in some ways it is a combination of Sovremmeny and Udaloy destroyers in one package... which is pretty damn good.
Next boats have an extra UKSK launcher, so 24 primary missiles ready to fire...
Please, do have in mind that western built combat ships are getting prohibitively expensive to build even for rich states. In fact, they are getting IDIOTICALLY expensive. I bet there is corruption to amount to 50% of cost of one billion EUR for a capable multirole frigate. Russians are building capable ships for a half of price.
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Crew now about to stock up on cigars 
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1h1 hour ago
.@USNavy Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyer USS Jason Dunham patrols Florida Straits and keeps an eye on Russian naval movements 30nm North of Havana.
#RussianNavy #ВМФ ships #СФ Admiral Gorshkov & tugs Elbrus & Nikolay Chiker travelled the Straits of Florida and arrived to Havana, Cuba.
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1h1 hour ago
.@USNavy Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyer USS Jason Dunham patrols Florida Straits and keeps an eye on Russian naval movements 30nm North of Havana.
#RussianNavy #ВМФ ships #СФ Admiral Gorshkov & tugs Elbrus & Nikolay Chiker travelled the Straits of Florida and arrived to Havana, Cuba.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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Not even a freedom of navigation Op around Florida ?
kvs- Posts : 15858
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Isos wrote:Not even a freedom of navigation Op around Florida ?
It's cute how warships are used by the USA to engage in this "enforcement of international law of the sea". If you look at the law it does not
cover aggressive military ships as having any freedom to navigate in territorial waters. Of course the MSM will never highlight this fact.
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3910
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kvs wrote:Isos wrote:Not even a freedom of navigation Op around Florida ?
It's cute how warships are used by the USA to engage in this "enforcement of international law of the sea". If you look at the law it does not
cover aggressive military ships as having any freedom to navigate in territorial waters. Of course the MSM will never highlight this fact.
It's amusing your pushing that BS, Havana is right on our doorstep, naturally, we would send a ship to shadow it.
Just like when we send warships near Russia doorsteps it sends a ship to shadow.
This is 100 percent normal but yes twist the narrative. Any country will send a ship to shadow someones else if it gets close enough that's the norm.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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SeigSoloyvov wrote:
It's amusing your pushing that BS, Havana is right on our doorstep, naturally, we would send a ship to shadow it.
Just like when we send warships near Russia doorsteps it sends a ship to shadow.
This is 100 percent normal but yes twist the narrative. Any country will send a ship to shadow someones else if it gets close enough that's the norm.
Not the same. Sendig a ship to a friendly country and sendig a ship to the borders of another one is different.
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3910
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Isos wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:
It's amusing your pushing that BS, Havana is right on our doorstep, naturally, we would send a ship to shadow it.
Just like when we send warships near Russia doorsteps it sends a ship to shadow.
This is 100 percent normal but yes twist the narrative. Any country will send a ship to shadow someones else if it gets close enough that's the norm.
Not the same. Sendig a ship to a friendly country and sendig a ship to the borders of another one is different.
How you that arrogant you think Russia doesn't do that, it sends spy ships along our territorial waterlines all the time.
Spare me from that logic.
I am also well aware the difference between a friendly port visit and something that isn't but I wasn't talking about a friendly port visit either AND for the record most of the time even if it's a friendly port visit there will be other ships watching the one incoming.