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Yeah, but when America does it it is evil...
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78 posters
Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2
GarryB- Posts : 40548
Points : 41050
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
dino00- Posts : 1677
Points : 1714
Join date : 2012-10-12
Age : 37
Location : portugal
**The new export version of gorshkov**
USC is on the "Army-2019" multipurpose frigate
He is able to carry 32 cruise missiles
KUBINKA / Moscow Region /, June 25. / Tass /. The United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) represents at the International Military-Technical Forum Army-2019, which opens on Tuesday, a line of ships carrying the Caliber-NK cruise missiles, including a project 22356 multi-purpose frigate capable of carrying 32 cruise missiles.
In the USC pavilion, the forum presented a model of a multi-purpose frigate of project 22356. Its main armament is 16 Caliber-NKE missiles and 16 Yakhont anti-missile missiles (the export version of the Onyx missile).
Existing frigates of a similar project 22350, which are in service with the Russian Navy, are capable of carrying 16 Caliber-NK and / or Onyx missiles.
The line of carriers "Calibrov" presented at the forum is also a patrol ship of Project 22500 (eight Caliber-NKE missiles), a small patrol ship of Project 20382 (eight missiles Uran-E, Caliber-NKE or Yakhont) .
The line of landing ships includes, in particular, a large landing ship (BDK) of project 11711E (export version of BDK of project 11711, the head ship is Ivan Gren) with a displacement of 6,600 tons, an average landing ship of project 21810 with a displacement of 1,700 tons. The latter is capable of transporting five main battle tanks, as well as 200 landing forces, including tank crews.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6588181
USC is on the "Army-2019" multipurpose frigate
He is able to carry 32 cruise missiles
KUBINKA / Moscow Region /, June 25. / Tass /. The United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) represents at the International Military-Technical Forum Army-2019, which opens on Tuesday, a line of ships carrying the Caliber-NK cruise missiles, including a project 22356 multi-purpose frigate capable of carrying 32 cruise missiles.
In the USC pavilion, the forum presented a model of a multi-purpose frigate of project 22356. Its main armament is 16 Caliber-NKE missiles and 16 Yakhont anti-missile missiles (the export version of the Onyx missile).
Existing frigates of a similar project 22350, which are in service with the Russian Navy, are capable of carrying 16 Caliber-NK and / or Onyx missiles.
The line of carriers "Calibrov" presented at the forum is also a patrol ship of Project 22500 (eight Caliber-NKE missiles), a small patrol ship of Project 20382 (eight missiles Uran-E, Caliber-NKE or Yakhont) .
The line of landing ships includes, in particular, a large landing ship (BDK) of project 11711E (export version of BDK of project 11711, the head ship is Ivan Gren) with a displacement of 6,600 tons, an average landing ship of project 21810 with a displacement of 1,700 tons. The latter is capable of transporting five main battle tanks, as well as 200 landing forces, including tank crews.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6588181
Isos- Posts : 11602
Points : 11570
Join date : 2015-11-06
How you that arrogant you think Russia doesn't do that, it sends spy ships along our territorial waterlines all the time.
Spare me from that logic.
I am also well aware the difference between a friendly port visit and something that isn't but I wasn't talking about a friendly port visit either AND for the record most of the time even if it's a friendly port visit there will be other ships watching the one incoming
Gorshkov is making a trip around the world and Cuba visit is made because Cuba is a friendly country.
Spy ship don't have 50 loaded tomahawks or kalibr missiles that can threaten countries.
When your Burkes navigates 20km from China or Crima or Iran with at the same time many drone flying around too it is only for provocation. Don't be made then when ypu lose your stupid drones. Since you did nothing against Iran, I hope Russia and China will see that as weekness and start shooting down you multi million drones all the time. That will teach you some lessons.
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3917
Points : 3895
Join date : 2016-04-08
Isos wrote:
How you that arrogant you think Russia doesn't do that, it sends spy ships along our territorial waterlines all the time.
Spare me from that logic.
I am also well aware the difference between a friendly port visit and something that isn't but I wasn't talking about a friendly port visit either AND for the record most of the time even if it's a friendly port visit there will be other ships watching the one incoming
Gorshkov is making a trip around the world and Cuba visit is made because Cuba is a friendly country.
Spy ship don't have 50 loaded tomahawks or kalibr missiles that can threaten countries.
When your Burkes navigates 20km from China or Crima or Iran with at the same time many drone flying around too it is only for provocation. Don't be made then when ypu lose your stupid drones. Since you did nothing against Iran, I hope Russia and China will see that as weekness and start shooting down you multi million drones all the time. That will teach you some lessons.
Whoever said I was mad about a drone getting shot down?. What does that have to do with this?. What can't justify your point that you have to bring up something completely unrelated to it?. For the recorded, I really don't care they shout it down.
But you kinda just put your own foot in your mouth indeed a frigate has weapons so naturally if it gets close to someone's waters they are going to keep an eye on it.
The more you talk the more I wonder what goes on in your head. Common sense is lost to people on this forum I swear.
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2654
Points : 2823
Join date : 2015-12-30
Location : Merkelland
I believe it is an error.dino00 wrote:**The new export version of gorshkov**
USC is on the "Army-2019" multipurpose frigate
He is able to carry 32 cruise missiles
KUBINKA / Moscow Region /, June 25. / Tass /. The United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) represents at the International Military-Technical Forum Army-2019, which opens on Tuesday, a line of ships carrying the Caliber-NK cruise missiles, including a project 22356 multi-purpose frigate capable of carrying 32 cruise missiles.
In the USC pavilion, the forum [b]presented a model of a multi-purpose frigate of project 22356. Its main armament is 16 Caliber-NKE missiles and 16 Yakhont anti-missile missiles (the export version of the Onyx
Maybe they meant 16 calibr OR yakhont + 8 Antisub calibr, for a total of 24 missiles.
I know that they had a.model of the version.with 24 UKSK VLS, similar to the 5th and 6 th 22350 being built for Russia.
It would not.make sense another version, given the fact that they plan also a larger 22350M with 48-UKSK VLS (plus an undisclosed amount of redut VLS).
Isos- Posts : 11602
Points : 11570
Join date : 2015-11-06
Whoever said I was mad about a drone getting shot down?. What does that have to do with this?. What can't justify your point that you have to bring up something completely unrelated to it?. For the recorded, I really don't care they shout it down.
But you kinda just put your own foot in your mouth indeed a frigate has weapons so naturally if it gets close to someone's waters they are going to keep an eye on it.
The more you talk the more I wonder what goes on in your head. Common sense is lost to people on this forum I swear.
I was refering to US not you in particular.
The frigate came close to you only because it went to visit a friendly country. US warships make "freedom of navigation ops" just to provoke other countries. That's the thing. I'm comparing behavior of russian and US navies.
The drone story is totally related to this. Because it was trying to provoke Iran by flying constantly on its borders. It is another exemple of how bad US are.
dino00- Posts : 1677
Points : 1714
Join date : 2012-10-12
Age : 37
Location : portugal
Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I believe it is an error.dino00 wrote:**The new export version of gorshkov**
USC is on the "Army-2019" multipurpose frigate
He is able to carry 32 cruise missiles
KUBINKA / Moscow Region /, June 25. / Tass /. The United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) represents at the International Military-Technical Forum Army-2019, which opens on Tuesday, a line of ships carrying the Caliber-NK cruise missiles, including a project 22356 multi-purpose frigate capable of carrying 32 cruise missiles.
In the USC pavilion, the forum [b]presented a model of a multi-purpose frigate of project 22356. Its main armament is 16 Caliber-NKE missiles and 16 Yakhont anti-missile missiles (the export version of the Onyx
Maybe they meant 16 calibr OR yakhont + 8 Antisub calibr, for a total of 24 missiles.
I know that they had a.model of the version.with 24 UKSK VLS, similar to the 5th and 6 th 22350 being built for Russia.
It would not.make sense another version, given the fact that they plan also a larger 22350M with 48-UKSK VLS (plus an undisclosed amount of redut VLS).
I don't see why it should be an error, this is for export. This is like 22350ME (E for export).
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
32 might be an option quoted as possible for an export version.
Clearly the design chosen by Russia is 24 though.
First pic (not a very good one though)
They gave a model to Putin at the name-plate ceremony.
Hmm, according to https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F40/
The model being shown is just the old 22356 export version, the 24 UKSK version has been shown in closed session which means we might see it next year if the Krylov 'Light Carrier' concept is a good example.
Clearly the design chosen by Russia is 24 though.
First pic (not a very good one though)
They gave a model to Putin at the name-plate ceremony.
One of the interlocutors of the publication added that the designers of SPKB solved the problem of placing additional vertical launchers of the Kyrgyz Republic without changing the dimensions of the ship.
Another source noted that the new frigates have undergone changes in a number of other systems. In particular, they will get more advanced electronics.
Hmm, according to https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F40/
The model being shown is just the old 22356 export version, the 24 UKSK version has been shown in closed session which means we might see it next year if the Krylov 'Light Carrier' concept is a good example.
dino00- Posts : 1677
Points : 1714
Join date : 2012-10-12
Age : 37
Location : portugal
From what I understand:
Gorshkov 16 missiles
Gorshkov layed down in April 23 24 missiles
Project 22356. (Gorshkov export) 16 missiles
Project 22356ME(Gorshkov M export). 32 missiles
Gorshkov-M 48 missiles
For me is this. Gorshkov-ME is just me calling.
Gorshkov 16 missiles
Gorshkov layed down in April 23 24 missiles
Project 22356. (Gorshkov export) 16 missiles
Project 22356ME(Gorshkov M export). 32 missiles
Gorshkov-M 48 missiles
For me is this. Gorshkov-ME is just me calling.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
Points : 13512
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
Alright, these are apparently photos of export version of new Gorshkov (22356), more VLS cells in the front
Photos of Gorshkov-M (Russian one) are still verboten
kumbor- Posts : 313
Points : 305
Join date : 2017-06-09
PapaDragon wrote:
Alright, these are apparently photos of export version of new Gorshkov (22356), more VLS cells in the front
Photos of Gorshkov-M (Russian one) are still verboten
Missile armament is much heavier than on first 22350.
Isos- Posts : 11602
Points : 11570
Join date : 2015-11-06
The engagement radar of rif M system is in the back and will have hard time engaging front threats and it will be impossible to cover four sides at the same time. The other radars are still older ones. Other competitors offers phased arrays that covers 360° much better.
The 4 phased array radar of Gorshkov is a much better solution.
The good point is that they have 2×16 UKSK and redut VLS instead of the typical 8 cells VLSs. It reduces space taken by the VLS. The good idea was to put cheaper Shtill in good numbers against ASM which are detected 20-30km away and doesn't require missiles of 150km range. But I don't see engagement radars of Shtill. Do they use the rif-m radar for Shtill ? Would that mean s-300 can use buk missiles ?
Anyway not really a new export product. It is the same old design with more missiles. I'm pretty disappointed by not offering better sensors. The market for such ship is almost non-existant, they should offer the best they have.
The 4 phased array radar of Gorshkov is a much better solution.
The good point is that they have 2×16 UKSK and redut VLS instead of the typical 8 cells VLSs. It reduces space taken by the VLS. The good idea was to put cheaper Shtill in good numbers against ASM which are detected 20-30km away and doesn't require missiles of 150km range. But I don't see engagement radars of Shtill. Do they use the rif-m radar for Shtill ? Would that mean s-300 can use buk missiles ?
Anyway not really a new export product. It is the same old design with more missiles. I'm pretty disappointed by not offering better sensors. The market for such ship is almost non-existant, they should offer the best they have.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
Points : 13512
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
Isos wrote:...they should offer the best they have.
Why?
Deadbeats who comprise majority of their customers rarely want to pay for the best (which ironically never stopped them from demanding the best)
Not that it matters anyway, I posted this for missile setup not export bullsh*t
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
Yeah thats an old export version thats been seen before.
They have shown a few variants, there is one with 36* Shtil-1 & 16* UKSK, Fregat & 4* MR-90 firecontrol radar in 2011
There was one with 28* not sure what (2* modules of 7*2??!), 16* UKSK but apparently normal Poliment radar in 2011 & 2013.
This is the one with the S-300FM firecontrol radar on the hangar, 16* UKSK, 8* large (Krepost !?) VLS presumably for S-300 & 24* presumably Redut, seen previously in 2014, 2017 & 2018
They have shown a few variants, there is one with 36* Shtil-1 & 16* UKSK, Fregat & 4* MR-90 firecontrol radar in 2011
There was one with 28* not sure what (2* modules of 7*2??!), 16* UKSK but apparently normal Poliment radar in 2011 & 2013.
This is the one with the S-300FM firecontrol radar on the hangar, 16* UKSK, 8* large (Krepost !?) VLS presumably for S-300 & 24* presumably Redut, seen previously in 2014, 2017 & 2018
xeno- Posts : 269
Points : 272
Join date : 2013-02-04
Did anyone notice that Russians secretly changed the shape of the bow part of new 22350 in addition to 24 vls? It looks very modern like that of zumwalt class.
ATLASCUB- Posts : 1154
Points : 1158
Join date : 2017-02-13
No small country is gonna order - by that I mean the Gulf nations with enough cash on hand - easily bullied. Iran has no money and is embargoed. India is pivoting. Turkey doesn't need atm - plus it wants to see how the S-400 issue unfolds.
Maybe Vietnam... unlikely tho given their dance and current growth. Not gonna jeopardize that one bit as they seek to attract companies fleeing China. The market is tight and CATSAA plays its role against the weak - as intended.
Maybe Vietnam... unlikely tho given their dance and current growth. Not gonna jeopardize that one bit as they seek to attract companies fleeing China. The market is tight and CATSAA plays its role against the weak - as intended.
Isos- Posts : 11602
Points : 11570
Join date : 2015-11-06
PapaDragon wrote:Isos wrote:...they should offer the best they have.
Why?
Deadbeats who comprise majority of their customers rarely want to pay for the best (which ironically never stopped them from demanding the best)
Not that it matters anyway, I posted this for missile setup not export bullsh*t
They still need to prove they can do them. They already had issues with the 3×12 shtill VLS because it was too heavy. Here we talk about 32 uksk carrying missiles much more heavier than shtill ones.
They should try to make the VLS configuration on the ground before starting any ship with such configuration.
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
I believe thats just an odd angle of the model, the name-plates showed normal 22350 profile.Did anyone notice that Russians secretly changed the shape of the bow part of new 22350
Edit:
Last edited by hoom on Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:21 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : enlarged crop of the model)
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
https://flot.com/2019/%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F66/
Edit: the angle of the model
I hope not a totally new radar suite? But if its existing tech like (part of?) the Zaslon system there wouldn't be need for secrecy...According to a knowledgeable interviewee Mil.Press FLOT in the Russian Navy, the decision not to show the ship model to the general public is due to the availability of new radio weapons.
Edit: the angle of the model
JohninMK- Posts : 15649
Points : 15790
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : England
Next stop Northern, Baltic or Black Sea Fleet?
Capt(N)
@Capt_Navy
26m26 minutes ago
The task group of ships of the #ВМФ #СФ
#Russian #Navy at the head by the RFS 454 Admiral Gorshkov frigate is crossing the Atlantic Ocean to the east.
Capt(N)
@Capt_Navy
26m26 minutes ago
The task group of ships of the #ВМФ #СФ
#Russian #Navy at the head by the RFS 454 Admiral Gorshkov frigate is crossing the Atlantic Ocean to the east.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
Points : 13512
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
JohninMK wrote:Next stop Northern, Baltic or Black Sea Fleet?
Capt(N)
@Capt_Navy
26m26 minutes ago
The task group of ships of the #ВМФ #СФ
Squeezing off couple of Kalibrs in the Med before going back North would be sweet addition to this journey
Maybe even visit to Sevastopol, crowds there would go wild
Isos- Posts : 11602
Points : 11570
Join date : 2015-11-06
Weired. They split in two after panama canal and one of the tanker went near Venezuela.
hoom- Posts : 2352
Points : 2340
Join date : 2016-05-06
Picked up some fresh supplies &/or oil?
Looks like no official visit though.
Looks like no official visit though.
JohninMK- Posts : 15649
Points : 15790
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : England
hoom wrote:Picked up some fresh supplies &/or oil?
Looks like no official visit though.
Kama the tanker could have just cut the corner to a mid Atlantic rendezvous and it doesn't look like it stopped anywhere so may have filled up in Ecuador.
Next stop the Med? They don't seem to be heading north for home. Its certainly turned into quite a World cruise for the flotilla. Wonder if the crews were warned before they set out.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
Points : 13512
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
JohninMK wrote:...
Next stop the Med? They don't seem to be heading north for home. Its certainly turned into quite a World cruise for the flotilla. Wonder if the crews were warned before they set out.
Why warn them? It's more fun this way.
