Talking bollocks thread #3

Actually it was a culture of not wearing helmets amongst other things that led to the high fatality rate on the Eastern front during WWII.

Most deaths are from upper body wounds and wounds to the head can often be lethal... wearing a helmet in combat is basic common sense... no modern army as dropped the helmet as being useless... in fact the add attachments for lights and cameras and night vision equipment and next generation Russian helmets will include visors with heads up displays and hearing protection and augmented hearing capacity.

The most dangerous thing is splinters either from enemy munitions or rocks and wood and other debris thrown up in explosions.

Body armour and helmets have been critical in reducing casualties for first tier forces in recent conflicts.

Vann7 wrote:blah blah blah...

Fuck, but I am getting SICK of Vann7s fucking stupid and endless walls of Putin-hate word salad...  This guy has some kind of compulsive obsession and it ain't healthy...  

What does it take to get this moron booted??  How many times must he puke this fucking nonsense on this forum before he at least gets a warning???

He is trolling endlessly, but he gets away with it. My patience is wearing razor-thin, and I surely can't be the only one???  

Big_Gazza wrote:Fuck, but I am getting SICK of Vann7s fucking stupid and endless walls of Putin-hate word salad...  This guy has some kind of compulsive obsession and it ain't healthy...  

What does it take to get this moron booted??  How many times must he puke this fucking nonsense on this forum before he at least gets a warning???

He is trolling endlessly, but he gets away with it. My patience is wearing razor-thin, and I surely can't be the only one???  

The reason why some of us are not bitching the whole time about him and other resident trolls is simply that we put them in our ignored list long ago. But yes, to have this circus troupe polluting the forum is hardly of interest for anyone outside the world of psychiatry...

Big_Gazza wrote:

Vann7 wrote:blah blah blah...

Fuck, but I am getting SICK of Vann7s fucking stupid and endless walls of Putin-hate word salad...  This guy has some kind of compulsive obsession and it ain't healthy...  

What does it take to get this moron booted??  How many times must he puke this fucking nonsense on this forum before he at least gets a warning???

He is trolling endlessly, but he gets away with it. My patience is wearing razor-thin, and I surely can't be the only one???  

To be honest, I'm pretty sure I had you on my ignore list at some point too

Problem with ignore list is that links to new posts stop working properly if someone on ignore list posted in the meantime

It's not a problem with occasional posts but as we all know Vann spams all posts all the time

RT of course show this as a "major achievement" wow ...20 years to replace one microsoft word processor and powerpoint. The order to start

A documentary about the EU shows that most EU countries like Germany are not happy with Microsoft, but they have programmes to have different companies compete for the role and only Microsoft applies so there is no competition and Microsoft largely get to dictate terms to EU governments and as we all know therefore embed in EU government and military structures their spyware that allows the US to control them... they don't need to spend a lot of money to get EU leaders to conform when they get all sorts of dirt on them on a daily basis.

The reason why some of us are not bitching the whole time about him and other resident trolls is simply that we put them in our ignored list long ago. But yes, to have this circus troupe polluting the forum is hardly of interest for anyone outside the world of psychiatry...

Honestly turn on a TV anywhere in the west and you hear the same talking points and bullshit... I stopped reading his posts a long time ago, they often contain the same juvenile cut and paste dribble that western media organisations now call journalism...

The thing is that anti Putin BS means he is making the right choices and pushing the correct buttons... ironically most of Vanns rants are about Putin not being hard enough on the west... so essentially he is complaining that Putin is not Stalin or perhaps even Beria... probably something a lot of Russians are thinking because they saw a decade ago that plans for integration with the west were not going to happen because the west has no respect for Russia or the Russian people and just wants more poodle bitches like they have in the EU and the British commonwealth... and Russian people are clearly not interested in that.

Putin has shown recently that he realises that ship has sailed now and seems to be making good on earlier promises to detach more from the west and look to other places in the world for trade and good relations.... and not a moment too soon in my opinion.

Banning Vann and some idiot would step up and take his place and nothing really would have changed at all.

Of course Vann could help himself here by at least trying to make more sense and be a bit more coherent... but what are you going to do?

GarryB wrote:Honestly turn on a TV anywhere in the west and you hear the same talking points and bullshit... I stopped reading his posts a long time ago, they often contain the same juvenile cut and paste dribble that western media organisations now call journalism...

Exactly, we cannot avoid that crap even if we want, so having it here is not a need of plurality or something like that

The thing is that anti Putin BS means he is making the right choices and pushing the correct buttons... ironically most of Vanns rants are about Putin not being hard enough on the west... so essentially he is complaining that Putin is not Stalin or perhaps even Beria...  

No, fake patriotism is just a cover they use, as justified in their manipulative ideology. They are dogmatic subversive nutcases that suffer a pathological detachment from reality and the number one priority for them is the destruction of the state, no matter what happens afterwards. They want the Russian state broken first of all, and then we will see. Probably they would then implement their vengeance program on everyone that (historically) offended them or their ilk, as they did so many times in the past. Actually they have no plan for any state beyond its destruction, that is why they are so dear to the establishment. Worst even, they will never accept how deeply illiterate they are in political topics, because they are 100% ideological about them. They are the political equivalent of cancer, basically.

Putin has shown recently that he realises that ship has sailed now and seems to be making good on earlier promises to detach more from the west and look to other places in the world for trade and good relations.... and not a moment too soon in my opinion.

Putin is a foreign service KGB guy that realises the nature of the West since he grew his teeth. The only thing that has changed in the last years is that Russia has grown strong enough to show more resolve and assertiveness. As I've been saying for a while, this is only going to increase (massively) in this decade. You do not develop a country like Russia as fast and comprehensively has Putin as done along 20 years by a lucky fluke.

Banning Vann and some idiot would step up and take his place and nothing really would have changed at all.

Weeding the garden is the same kind of thankless work, but it needs to be done regardless or you will not produce or even find what you planted...

Of course Vann could help himself here by at least trying to make more sense and be a bit more coherent... but what are you going to do?

Vann, as some others, are not here to discuss anything but on a sacred mission, to bugger us Putin "stooges" and pray their truth. They don't fucking care one bit about making sense, being accepted, or civil, they don't care about our opinion either. They just keep repeating their mantras endlessly and parasitising this forum as a resonance chamber for their shit.

Actually they have no plan for any state beyond its destruction, that is why they are so dear to the establishment. Worst even, they will never accept how deeply illiterate they are in political topics, because they are 100% ideological about them. They are the political equivalent of cancer, basically.

Was going to disagree, but the pattern is plainly obvious... they are not builders they are destroyers... don't approve of Saddams policies and actions.... destroy his government and eventually restore law an order so those oilfields can get back to supplying oil... don't approve of Maduro, Assad, Gadaffi, Castro, Putin, Xi, it even applies to organisations.... FIFA, WADA, OCIW, IAEA... cut off the head and see what grows back... it does not matter if you break the system entirely and tens of millions of people suffer and millions die... that is just a consequence of rolling the dice to get a better situation for yourself.

Talk of the anti christ... sounds like he is already here and operating in the background...

Putin is a foreign service KGB guy that realises the nature of the West since he grew his teeth. The only thing that has changed in the last years is that Russia has grown strong enough to show more resolve and assertiveness. As I've been saying for a while, this is only going to increase (massively) in this decade. You do not develop a country like Russia as fast and comprehensively has Putin as done along 20 years by a lucky fluke.

But the west is not as solid and unified as you suggest... there are quite a few ex-leaders from all over the west who think better relations and less hostile relations with Russia would benefit the west more than the current BS.

After 15 years of getting Russia to the point where they can stand on their own feet and pretty much absorb any blow the west might try to inflict economically or politically, Putin has gotten Russia to the point where it can try alternatives and just accept no cooperation without running to them and begging for a deal.

I am pretty sure the people around Trump were telling him that the INF treaty could be rewritten more in Americas favour.... maybe making it a Europe only agreement so they could have missiles in Asia against China, but Russia is in a position where it has the best air defence network on the planet and it is getting better every day, so the idea of allowing the use of intermediate range cruise missiles and intermediate range ballistic missiles is not as scary for Russia as it was... despite the west being able to place their missiles much much closer to major cities like Moscow and St Petersberg.

For the EU however this is catastrophic because their weapons and defence options are rather pathetic.

If the US had done this in 2005 they would have gotten a better deal, but in 2005 they still didn't see Russia as a rival or threat so they likely would not have bothered.

To be clear the INF treaty does not include ship, sub and aircraft launched weapons... only ground launched missiles.... US attacks via cruise missile in Serbia and Syria and Iraq etc etc have all been in accordance with the INF treaty... which shows what sort of practical difference it actually makes.

Weeding the garden is the same kind of thankless work, but it needs to be done regardless or you will not produce or even find what you planted...

True but the definition of weeds is fluid too... having a nice ordered tidy garden is a recipe for disaster because a discussion group is not a garden... if you want every anti putin member banned... well anyone who says anything not nice about anything to do with Putins Russia and the site becomes a fan site and not a discussion forum.

Vann, as some others, are not here to discuss anything but on a sacred mission, to bugger us Putin "stooges" and pray their truth. They don't fucking care one bit about making sense, being accepted, or civil, they don't care about our opinion either. They just keep repeating their mantras endlessly and parasitising this forum as a resonance chamber for their shit.

But does that make them wrong? Does that mean you should not listen to alternative views?

In the US they now have a situation where you can get fired from your job for wearing a pro trump hat, you can be assaulted on the street for doing the same.... I am not aware of any incidents of the reverse... have trump fans attacked creepy joe or crooked hilary supporters... I don't know... certainly the protesters when Trump won weren't shot like Trump protesters were... when Hilarys supporters demanded investigations into Russian hacking and other such bullshit for Trumps entire term in office the media generally supported that, yet when trump supporters look at numbers for voting and the way votes came in seemed strange and needing investigation, this election was deemed perfect and nothing to see.... move along.... no millions of dollars to be spent wasting the FBI and other services time on wild goose chases this time around.

Such a toxic cancel environment is not something I aspire to achieve here.

Happy to discuss with anyone though.

Honestly just a shame these guys aren't getting paid for their "work".

What does womens in the kitchens have to do with economy?

GarryB wrote:But does that make them wrong? Does that mean you should not listen to alternative views?
...
Such a toxic cancel environment is not something I aspire to achieve here.

Happy to discuss with anyone though.

Honestly just a shame these guys aren't getting paid for their "work".

I enjoy alternative views and celebrate that you are committed to preserving them. I just have to say that some people here are not having "discussions", at all. I have not seen them moving one milimeter EVER, they blatantly disregard facts and common sense in favour of magical / ideological thinking and essentially have an unilateral stance instead of participating in an exchange of information. You may be trying to discuss with them, they are not discussing anything because they have nothing to learn from you and me. If after hundreds and thousands of exchanges this is not clear, then, well, your faith in people is possibly bigger than what reality supports. The peril is that other people that are actually contributing get annoyed and in any case, the quality of the board drops significantly, because repeating endlessly the same discussions with people that cannot handle information and logic at an elementary level has no interest whatsoever. But those are just my two cents, everyone needs to understand that here you are the one to call the shots.

                                                                                                               

I enjoy alternative views and celebrate that you are committed to preserving them. I just have to say that some people here are not having "discussions", at all. I have not seen them moving one milimeter EVER, they blatantly disregard facts and common sense in favour of magical / ideological thinking and essentially have an unilateral stance instead of participating in an exchange of information.

I appreciate what you are saying, repeatedly shown to be wrong yet continue the same line of discussion from another direction with the same point of view as if the previous line had not been shot down in flames.

You have to appreciate that these beliefs are the world view of these people... they simply can't accept the real truth for their sanities sake.

I remember in the 1990s arguing with American teenagers with all sorts of stupid ideas... one guy was sure MIG and Sukhoi and Tupolev and Ilyusion were all dead and taht by 2005 the Russians would take their first deliveries of worn out old ex HATO F-16s to replace their old aircraft while those HATO countries that donated them would be taking delivery of the JSF... or possibly F-22s.

British naval experts who thought supersonic anti ship missiles were a dead end because they would always be huge and you could never carry enough to make them effective and you would be doomed to have enormous ships you could never build in useful numbers which also makes you vulnerable because you lacked depth.

US carrier groups were a paragon of military power... super fast and super silent... simultaneously all seeing but also stealthy invisible and unable to be targeted.

The fact of the matter is that not everyone is open minded and prepared to change their views... they are usually easy to spot... nothing putin can do is right... nothing trump can do is right... Assad is evil so even no leadership in Syria and thousands of small militant armed groups fighting to control the country is better than having Assad in charge...

Putins biggest problem has been that he is too nice to the west and keeps talking about partnerships, but if he had actually succeeded things for west and Russia would be much better, but obviously those western countries would not be able to then blame Russia for all their problems.

He has been more than fair and more than nice, but it is now time to move on and try other alternative solutions for Russias future.

Trumps best feature in my opinion was all the sanctions against Russia... it prevented better relations and therefore Russia being corrupted the way the US corrupts every country it "partners with". Well actually to be honest before he won the election in 2016, the best thing about Trump was that he was no Hilary.

Assad could be the most evil person on the planet but even his rule is better than the joys of no leadership like Libya is enjoying.

Iran had to get rid of their CIA installed stooge, Castro had to kick the US Mob dominated regime in power in Cuba... there was a terrible cost but Russia probably benefited overall getting rid of the Tsar and the monarchy too, but the west were interfering bastards even then... especially then... so it would be a difficult alternative future to see.

Hitler had to go, and a more moderate and more capable leader would have been better in both Britain and the Soviet Union in terms of Churchill and Stalin...

You may be trying to discuss with them, they are not discussing anything because they have nothing to learn from you and me. If after hundreds and thousands of exchanges this is not clear, then, well, your faith in people is possibly bigger than what reality supports.

I think the real difference is expectations... these people are not children... don't expect to be able to explain something to them and suddenly they get it and it makes sense to them and they appreciate understanding the world around them a little better. For all you know they might be right and the problem is they lack the sources or are not articulate enough to explain it clearly.

I don't expect someone who honestly believes their white skin makes them smarter or better people than another random person with a different skin pigment, or that it is us against them, to suddenly change their view.

The best I normally hope for is that they think I am not an idiot... I have reasonable but not amazing intelligence and I have an opposing view founded on both facts and experience. We joke about people not taking their meds or having their sister attacked by a non white, but this sort of thing is actually quite possible... not everyone is dealt the same number of cards and I am not suggesting they are thinking different things because they are stupid... their own personal experience might be negative.

Imagine I go to the next MAKS and I get brutally mugged and assaulted and the police and authorities are no help and I have a nightmare time in the country... get on the wrong train and end up in the Ukraine and everyone is so nice and I get all the help I need and they are wonderful... I might arrive home thinking it is all Putins fault and Russian people are bastards... I would have experienced it personally... who are you then to tell me I am wrong.  But does that make me right?

The peril is that other people that are actually contributing get annoyed and in any case, the quality of the board drops significantly, because repeating endlessly the same discussions with people that cannot handle information and logic at an elementary level has no interest whatsoever.

If people get upset because not everyone loves Putin then they need to set up a putin worship site of their own.

Honestly I think a few members have stopped coming here because there is not enough conflict and not enough anti Russian and anti putin chatter that they can get their teeth into... not enough risk of getting banned.

But those are just my two cents, everyone needs to understand that here you are the one to call the shots.

I do appreciate hearing the views of members and it is not like certain members can never be banned.

Banning them wont make those views just disappear, and ignoring them can lead to the idea that perhaps they are right if no one contradicts them.

Leads to annoying concepts like perception is reality.... if a tree falls in the forest and no body is there to hear it... does it still make a noise...

That one always used to piss me off because the suggestion is that if there are no witnesses present then maybe it didn't happen... but that would mean recording equipment like cameras and microphones wouldn't work and we are just wasting our time digging up dinosaur bones and looking at history...

Perception is not reality and even if you don't agree with someone does not make all their examples and reasoning wrong.

It is a question of being honest with yourself and not everyone is capable of that, because it is their world view at stake and without that thoughts can turn to dark places.

I will move this stuff to the talking bollocks thread... don't take this personally I do listen to peoples opinions but conflicting responsibilities mean I don't want to comply because I don't want to create a yes man forum of Putin worshippers... which is ironic because this forum was created because most forums in pro west creations are west worshippers with the non believers creeping around on eggshells so as not to be thrown to the wolves...

GarryB wrote:I appreciate what you are saying, repeatedly shown to be wrong yet continue the same line of discussion from another direction with the same point of view as if the previous line had not been shot down in flames.

Exactly. If your counterpart does not listen to you, it is not a discussion but a monologue.

You have to appreciate that these beliefs are the world view of these people... they simply can't accept the real truth for their sanities sake.

Their world view is insanity, as proven by their blunt dismissal of facts and incapacity to handle logic.

If people get upset because not everyone loves Putin then they need to set up a putin worship site of their own.

Not by that, but by the sheer amount of repetitive stupidity they find when trying to find information about a topic. Of course ignoring list is nice for those experienced users, unregistered ones cannot filter that out.

Honestly I think a few members have stopped coming here because there is not enough conflict and not enough anti Russian and anti putin chatter that they can get their teeth into... not enough risk of getting banned.

Ok, no idea. I personally enjoy balanced discussions with rational people, there are many other places where you can get your teeth into something or someone. In the end it revolves around the type of board one tries to create.

I do appreciate hearing the views of members and it is not like certain members can never be banned.

I do not agree that every opinion is respectable, some opinions are full of shit. People that cannot usee their brains properly need to be helped, not to be given a loudspeaker or put at the helm for the rest of society to become their victims. Sorry for that non-inclusive message boys...

Banning them wont make those views just disappear, and ignoring them can lead to the idea that perhaps they are right if no one contradicts them.

Discussing every loony in this world as much as they want is a kind of slavery...

Leads to annoying concepts like perception is reality.... if a tree falls in the forest and no body is there to hear it... does it still make a noise...

Unavoidable fact of reality we cannot change I am afraid. But better for them to construct their echo chamber somewhere else.

I will move this stuff to the talking bollocks thread... don't take this personally I do listen to peoples opinions but conflicting responsibilities mean I don't want to comply because I don't want to create a yes man forum of Putin worshippers... which is ironic because this forum was created because most forums in pro west creations are west worshippers with the non believers creeping around on eggshells so as not to be thrown to the wolves...

This forum is a drop in a sea so I don't think it is wrong that baseless smearing of Russia gets debunked first and then shown the door if it insists repeatedly on inane, intelligence insulting stupidity as perceived by most users. Every forum has a tone and this one has no obligation to be a exception I think. But that is just my opinion and as said I appreciate that you are a genuinely tolerant guy

Exactly. If your counterpart does not listen to you, it is not a discussion but a monologue.

If you look at the membership of most forums and about 5% actually post most of the time... maybe 10% more post occasionally, and another 5-10 percent post once or very very rarely.

Sometimes they are shy... sometimes they are interested but don't want to be wrong (ie appear to be wrong) and have someone explain in detail why what they though can't possibly be true for hard concrete reasons they can't refute... sometimes they have nothing to add and just want to listen in.

It is like talkback radio... there is a silent majority who listen but would never phone in and actually say anything... it is almost like entertainment.

I sometimes think the people who stay quiet are the smart ones because they are not going to lose their jobs in 10 years time over some silly comment made here or elsewhere.

Even if they think it is a monologue the people reading it can read both sides and hear both sides of the story.... that is more than they get from western news media already...

Their world view is insanity, as proven by their blunt dismissal of facts and incapacity to handle logic.

You don't need to understand how a car works to use one. Obviously a clear and rational understanding of how they work and what sort of things will stop them working properly will mean your car lasts longer and works better and is not so expensive to have... things like changing your own oil might save a lot of money but getting oil all over your suit might end up costing you more than you save... it comes down to what sort of world you live in and how you want to perceive it.

Not by that, but by the sheer amount of repetitive stupidity they find when trying to find information about a topic. Of course ignoring list is nice for those experienced users, unregistered ones cannot filter that out.

Mods can't filter that out either...

Ok, no idea. I personally enjoy balanced discussions with rational people, there are many other places where you can get your teeth into something or someone. In the end it revolves around the type of board one tries to create.

It is not that they are psychos... more that they like to be challenged and to save the ignorant from their ignorance.... it is probably more out of being bored.... on a lot of western military dominated forums people can say really stupid things and wont be corrected... say that Soviet tank autoloaders rip peoples arms off here and hopefully pretty quickly you will likely get pointed to all their parades that don't seem to include one armed gunners or one armed commanders... and laugh at them when they suggest it would be unarmed loaders we are looking for... HAHAHA...

On a western based forum you are enlightening the ignorant and bringing new information to people... you can do that here too but you have to be fast because within a short period of time there will be a few people correcting them with all sorts of interesting pictures and videos or just facts and stories, or just mentioning that tanks with autoloaders don't have crewmen called loaders and if there is a fault with the autoloader it would be rather tricky to manually load anyway... in most tanks a gunner is one side of teh gun and the commander is on the other while the loader is behind the gun with the ammo around him or behind him to load.

In a Soviet tank with an autoloader the ammo is loaded into the autoloader located below the commander and gunners feet...

I do not agree that every opinion is respectable, some opinions are full of shit.

That is true but we have a set of rules for everyone.... keep to the rules and you can be as ignorant as you please.

We try to educate, but we are not obliged to.

People that cannot usee their brains properly need to be helped, not to be given a loudspeaker or put at the helm for the rest of society to become their victims. Sorry for that non-inclusive message boys...

Well the first step to helping these people is to identify them in the first place, but the second step always requires that they want to be helped and not everyone gets past the second step... it is important not to judge them of course... when you piss them off they will just hunker down and refuse to accept there is a problem and a discussion becomes an argument... when it is an argument it comes down to winning or losing, and you win... even if you have to cheat or lie or make shit up. Which is why arguments are useless... especially on the internet.

Discussing every loony in this world as much as they want is a kind of slavery...

It is totally up to you to decide how much time you invest in reading and writing to these or any people, so it would be a slavery of your own making.

Unavoidable fact of reality we cannot change I am afraid. But better for them to construct their echo chamber somewhere else.

The sound of a tree falling in a forest or the sound a one handed clap makes type people I find annoying because they think it is deep and intelligent and impossible to answer.

The noise made by trees falling is not made real by someone being there to perceive it... otherwise when there is no one there to perceive it would it even fall at all?

I love when they talk about the noise a one handed clap makes... I introduce them to scientific experimentation... and give them a slap...

This forum is a drop in a sea so I don't think it is wrong that baseless smearing of Russia gets debunked first and then shown the door if it insists repeatedly on inane, intelligence insulting stupidity as perceived by most users. Every forum has a tone and this one has no obligation to be a exception I think. But that is just my opinion and as said I appreciate that you are a genuinely tolerant guy

People can make it really easy by breaking the rules, but I think some people who want certain other people banned perhaps that to solve the problem and I can tell them it wont... there are these sort of people on every forum and when they get gotten rid of they either pop up again or someone else comes and takes their place... some times existing people actually change and become more like the people who got banned... it is almost like they see them not as morons or bad guys but people who are just testing the group... testing this society with a sort of devils advocate type logic or reasoning but when people object to such stupidity it turns into an argument and they are forced to harden their stance... essentially they get pushed from moderate dissent to hard core opposition.

Wow... that is deep... I need a sit down and a cookie...

GarryB wrote:I sometimes think the people who stay quiet are the smart ones because they are not going to lose their jobs in 10 years time over some silly comment made here or elsewhere.

 

Mods can't filter that out either...

Wow I am sorry to hear that!

That is true but we have a set of rules for everyone.... keep to the rules and you can be as ignorant as you please.

Many would put names to what these people do like trolling, spamming, flamebaiting and so on... essentially the equivalent of antisocial behaviour that would get their asses kicked hard in real life, but from the safety of their parent's basement.

Well the first step to helping these people is to identify them in the first place, but the second step always requires that they want to be helped and not everyone gets past the second step...  it is important not to judge them of course... when you piss them off they will just hunker down and refuse to accept there is a problem and a discussion becomes an argument... when it is an argument it comes down to winning or losing, and you win... even if you have to cheat or lie or make shit up. Which is why arguments are useless... especially on the internet.

Quite honestly, I don't give a shit if they hunker down, I would be content simply if one or two people do not have the power to pester one hundred.

It is totally up to you to decide how much time you invest in reading and writing to these or any people, so it would be a slavery of your own making.

Sure, I was just answering your previous comment that you did not want to leave their arguments unanswered

People can make it really easy by breaking the rules, but I think some people who want certain other people banned perhaps that to solve the problem and I can tell them it wont... there are these sort of people on every forum and when they get gotten rid of they either pop up again or someone else comes and takes their place... some times existing people actually change and become more like the people who got banned... it is almost like they see them not as morons or bad guys but people who are just testing the group... testing this society with a sort of devils advocate type logic or reasoning but when people object to such stupidity it turns into an argument and they are forced to harden their stance... essentially they get pushed from moderate dissent to hard core opposition.

Wow... that is deep... I need a sit down and a cookie...

I would be content simply if one or two people do not have the power to pester one hundred.

But then sometimes they step out of line and get a 7 day break from the forum...

I can be very patient but if someone makes it easy for me I have to apply the rules... that is my job here.

Sure, I was just answering your previous comment that you did not want to leave their arguments unanswered

Yes, of course, but it is a skill we all have to master ourselves... there is way too much stupidity in the world for any one person or one forum to solve... it is very important that you learn to pick your battles... and expect only small victories...