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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:59 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Well yeah, difference is it's now a mix between government owned and private owned companies involved in import substitution, giving rise to potential growth in opportunities. You can blame your Soviet friends for causing a huge hole for 30 years.

    At least now Russia is growing. And while their buddy buddy relationship with the west was retarded, it is what the Soviet leaders lead to in the first place.

    China has a strict structure which a lot should actually emulate.

    The "state owned" enterprise bullshit that we always hear from western media is nonsense. It is not re Sovietizing in the slightest. They are joint stock companies with boards and CEO's just like a private company. They just use the governments credit facility. And the govts credit facility is a real central bank with real interest rates and a floating market driven currency. 

    These "state" owned companies are actually run better because of this.

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  miketheterrible Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:14 pm

    Backman wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Well yeah, difference is it's now a mix between government owned and private owned companies involved in import substitution, giving rise to potential growth in opportunities. You can blame your Soviet friends for causing a huge hole for 30 years.

    At least now Russia is growing. And while their buddy buddy relationship with the west was retarded, it is what the Soviet leaders lead to in the first place.

    China has a strict structure which a lot should actually emulate.

    The "state owned" enterprise bullshit that we always hear from western media is nonsense. It is not re Sovietizing in the slightest. They are joint stock companies with boards and CEO's just like a private company. They just use the governments credit facility. And the govts credit facility is a real central bank with real interest rates and a floating market driven currency. 

    These "state" owned companies are actually run better because of this.

    I'm aware.

    We used to have crown companies here of same magnitude. They were not only profitable, but provided mostly jobs for locals wherever and they kept money inside. But, most were sold off for a quick buck.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:35 pm

    flamming_python wrote:...The way to do this is to avert the war and do everything to secure economic and infrastructural growth, cutting the Ukraine out of anything. Which is being worked on, and Washington realizes this and has decided to try and throw a spanner in the works.

    So you are now saying that Russia is doing the right thing

    Several hours ago you were claiming Russia is fucking up

    So which is it?

    You switch stories like you have chemical imbalance


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    Post  Backman Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:43 pm

    bitcointrader70 wrote:
    Backman wrote:
    bitcointrader70 wrote:
    Backman wrote:
    bitcointrader70 wrote:Nothing funny about this conflict. Slavs killing Slavs. White people killing white people while the globalists who run US NATO and Europe are importing tons of 3rd world immigrants for cheap labor and laughing.

    Thanks to the brainless Western Ukrainian elite. If only they could think like adults , this wouldn't be happening.
    They aren’t brainless. They are getting paid really well to do what they do. And they are getting a lot promises from people like George soros, US government officials, and a few “unknowns”

    'Em no they aren't. They aren't getting paid shit. They destroyed their country. Completely f'ing destroyed it. Soros money is piss in the wind after your currency falls 70%. It's done. And Russia is still Ukraine's biggest trade partner. They are even shut out of Chinese money.

    The US has no extra money or energy to spend on Ukraine. Even the Western elite are bitching about this now. Their businesses are crumbling. Any industry you can think of , is crumbling. The EU doesn't want anything that Ukraine has. Not even the agriculture.

    If they were smart , they would have kept playing the US and Russia off of each other. But that's over now.
    Regardless of what happens they are getting deposits into their secret bank accounts and try to acts as tyrants be the media darlings of the west’s war against Russia. If things go south they get to retire in a nice villa in Florida or a luxury suite in London.

    Like FP said the political elites of many Eastern European countries and even Asian a countries are becoming convinced that Russia is going to lose in the long term and the west will win. And by my assessment it’s hard to disagree with them. Culturally, politically, and economically Russia is losing.

    And Auslander what makes you think I want Russia to lose? Sorry I deal with enough trannys, homos, and gopnek ghetto blacks at home stateside. I don’t want that ultra left wing libtard shit spreading to other places. I can’t stand it as it is.

    Where do you get your news ? It sounds like from the US media mostly. 

    The US is fighting Russia because it is strong. I knew nothing about Russia 12 years ago until I started doing investment research. 

    Gazprom had the record for the most profitable corporate quarter in history until Apple hit it big. In 2013 Moscow had more billionaires than New York. 15% debt/GDP. Has to be the lowest in the industrialized world. 

    Russia isn't losing shit.

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    magnumcromagnon
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:18 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Let's ask this question: Will they attack out the blue, or will they attack during a special event which Russia is participating in?

    1.) Suckassvili attacks South Ossetia peacekeepers when everyone was distracted during the Summer Olympics of 2008.

    2.) The Maidan coup happens during the Winter Olympics of 2014.

    ...So maybe they'll attack during the period between the Victory Day Parade (May 9th) and  the Tokyo Summer Olympics 2020(21)? Russia has dubiously been barred from the next Summer Olympics, so I'm thinking they will trying something during the Victory Day parade.

    The testicular fortitude of the Ukrappy's actually trying something on May 9th....maybe they want to experience the results of May 9th, 1945 for themselves? Wink

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8476-the-situation-in-the-ukraine-29#318253

    Remember what I said about them trying something on May 9th? Looks like they were attempting an assassination attempt on Lukashenko's life and a regime change operation within Belarus on May 9th, so there might still be a false flag, or a full-blown battlefront forming by the Ukronies within the first couple weeks of May.

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t3647p175-russia-belarus-relationship#321518
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:24 pm

    Two more now making all the three that just trekked down from the Baltic plus one already there are now in the Black Sea. Serious invasion force Laughing

    Cavit Ege Tulça
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    #ВМФ Russian Navy Ropucha Class Landing ships Alexander Otrakovsky 031, Kondopoga 027 (#Cф Northern Fleet), followed by Kaliningrad 102 and Korolev 130 (#Бф Baltic Fleet) have transited northbound through Istanbul today towards Black Sea.

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 25 Empty PETER HITCHENS: Don't blame Russia... WE are the ones pushing for a war

    Post  Finty Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:00 am

    More from the English Press. Yeah it's the mail and ergo shit, like all the others but this piece has a somewhat more sympathetic view towards Russia...


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9482475/PETER-HITCHENS-Dont-blame-Russia-ones-pushing-war.html


    Peter Hitchens/ Daily Mail wrote:


    At last we are to get out of Afghanistan, a country to which we should never have sent a single soldier.

    I am still full of fury at the shallow and ignorant politicians of all the main parties who sent young men and women into that futile war, to die or to be maimed, for absolutely no purpose.

    But as this long-overdue moment arrives, a frantic lobby in this country and in the USA wants to get us into a new and equally pointless war against Russia. As I know a bit about Russia, and once lived there, I'd like to warn against this.

    Yes, Russia is ruled by nasty, sinister despots. But it is not a major threat to us. We have no disputes about territory or trade. Its leaders and people care little about us. It is a defeated, poor country with an economy about the same size as Italy's, which has been in headlong retreat and decline since the 1980s.

    Once it ruled a vast empire that began at Marienborn in the middle of Germany, less than 500 miles from Calais. Now it is almost 1,500 miles from the Channel to Russia's western frontier. It controlled a vast military alliance and an economic bloc, now both very dead.

    It maintained a global navy, most of which was long ago turned into fridges and washing machines. Much of the rest is so decrepit it can barely leave harbour. It was the headquarters of a stupid dogma, now finished and gone, which it tried to spread throughout the world.

    All this is over. Moscow has abandoned control of tens of thousands of square miles of territory in Europe and Asia and knows it lacks the power to get it back.

    Let me explain how this feels to Russians by asking you to imagine a mirror image. Imagine that the USA had lost the Cold War and the USSR had won it. Think how it might be if Moscow had then treated the USA as Washington has treated Russia. This is what you might have seen:

    Instead of Ukraine being detached from Moscow rule, and slowly reeled into Nato and the EU, imagine that an equally huge, fertile, productive and strategic chunk of the USA, including Texas and California, was encouraged to declare independence and form a new Spanish-speaking nation hostile to the USA.

    Impossible? Hardly. This part of the US was seized by armed force from Mexico in the 1840s, and it is only the USA's superpower status which prevents this grab from being questioned in the same way that Russia's former hold over Ukraine, the Caucasus, Central Asia and the Baltic states was questioned after 1989.

    Imagine constant efforts to get this new North American nation to join the Warsaw Pact military alliance, and Comecon, Moscow's economic and trading bloc. And picture at the same time the spread of the Warsaw Pact and Comecon into most central and South American countries, along with major gifts of modern Soviet weapons and aircraft.

    Imagine that Nato has been abolished under Soviet pressure, as the Warsaw Pact was wound up under US pressure. And imagine also that almost all of Nato's non-US members have not stayed neutral, but have been gathered into the Warsaw Pact under the ultimate command of Moscow.

    The permanent stationing of large numbers of well-armed Soviet and Warsaw Pact troops and warships in Cuba would undoubtedly follow. And to add to the mix, think how it might be if Quebec finally broke away from Canada, with Moscow's encouragement, and allowed Warsaw Pact troops to be based along the USA's northern border.

    At 335 miles from New York City, this is nothing like as close as Nato troops (often to be seen in Narva, Estonia) now are to Russia's second city St Petersburg, 99 miles from the Estonian frontier. I think the people of what was left of the USA, and its political leaders, would chafe quite a lot at such an arrangement. In fact they would be fearful and angry and perhaps inclined to lash out.

    Militant American nationalists would sweep to power in the Capitol and the White House. They might even re-annexe Texas, if they got the chance, in the face of international disapproval.

    They would ask which country the Warsaw Pact was aimed at. They would object to every move which brought Moscow's military power and alliances closer to the borders of a diminished USA. They would wonder what the ultimate aim of these actions was. And they would be quite within their rights to do so.

    The best test of whether your own policy is good or bad is to imagine how it would feel if your foes did the same thing to you. On this basis, our policies towards Russia are dangerous and aggressive.

    If we want a peaceful and friendly Russia, then our actions are stupid, ignorant and counter-productive. Vladimir Putin could turn out to be mild compared with what we get if we stir up the true spirit of Russian nationalism. Please don't be seduced into supporting this folly.

    A war on European territory could be a truly terrible thing.



    Some of it I agree with, other bits not so much.

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    Post  flamming_python Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:10 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:...The way to do this is to avert the war and do everything to secure economic and infrastructural growth, cutting the Ukraine out of anything. Which is being worked on, and Washington realizes this and has decided to try and throw a spanner in the works.

    So you are now saying that Russia is doing the right thing

    Several hours ago you were claiming Russia is fucking up

    So which is it?

    You switch stories like you have chemical imbalance


    It's doing the right thing now and has been for the last 7 years, I thought I made that clear
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:45 am

    Finty wrote:More from the English Press. Yeah it's the mail and ergo shit, like all the others but this piece has a somewhat more sympathetic view towards Russia...


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9482475/PETER-HITCHENS-Dont-blame-Russia-ones-pushing-war.html ...

    I used to think that Daily Mail was trash but then one day I clicked on something called The Sun and realized that Daily Mail is Pulitzer grade journalism in comparison...

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:54 am

    Im a  fan of Peter Hitchens. He knows geopolitics. But he thinks Russia is still living in the 90's. He even used the "size of Italy" comparison which is proven to be nonsense. One of his arguments is "Russia isn't a threat because its weak and has a small GDP". But this is really stupid because that's exactly what the neocon war mongers say. They say Russia is weak. Therefore it should have no influence in geopolitics.

    The first half of this article is a total abortion. What a joke. Any country with top 5 gold reserves and or FX reserves can't be classified as poor. 
    He is just as ignorant about the navy as the economy. Russia is still the number 2 submarine power. He really thinks that Russia is Ukraine with more oil. What an idiot.


    Last edited by Backman on Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  flamming_python Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:15 am

    Backman wrote:Im a  fan of Peter Hitchens. He knows geopolitics. But he thinks Russia is still living in the 90's. He even used the "size of Italy" comparison which is proven to be nonsense. One of his arguments is "Russia isn't a threat because its weak and has a small GDP". But this is really stupid because that's exactly what the neocon war mongers say. They say Russia is weak. Therefore it should have no influence in geopolitics.

    This particular article is a total abortion. What a joke. Any country with top 5 gold reserves and or FX reserves can't be classified as poor. 
    He is just as ignorant about the navy as the economy. Russia is still the number 2 submarine power. He really thinks that Russia is Ukraine with more oil. What an idiot.

    I don't know what he knows or what he claims to know and don't particularly care.

    The more Russia is underestimated the better for Russia. I expressly don't want any undue attention to be paid to the strengthening of the Russian fleet or the Russian economy, ignorance of us is bliss (for us). The more the perception that the Russian fleet is a rust bucket but that Moscow's nukes are still in order, the less the chance that the Russian fleet would have to be used, ultimately. And this article and its arguments prove my point.

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 25 Empty Peter Hitchens

    Post  calripson Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:14 am

    Backman wrote:Im a  fan of Peter Hitchens. He knows geopolitics. But he thinks Russia is still living in the 90's. He even used the "size of Italy" comparison which is proven to be nonsense. One of his arguments is "Russia isn't a threat because its weak and has a small GDP". But this is really stupid because that's exactly what the neocon war mongers say. They say Russia is weak. Therefore it should have no influence in geopolitics.

    The first half of this article is a total abortion. What a joke. Any country with top 5 gold reserves and or FX reserves can't be classified as poor. 
    He is just as ignorant about the navy as the economy. Russia is still the number 2 submarine power. He really thinks that Russia is Ukraine with more oil. What an idiot.

    He's a Brit, what do you expect? They are the inventors of modern day monetarist economics. Adam Smith was commissioned by the East India Company to write "Wealth of Nations". Real economic growth in both America and Germany in the 1800s resulted from a rejection of the British model. Free trade and low tariffs were not part of the picture.
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    Post  gbu48098 Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:23 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    But commies never dared to touch those precious non-Russians because their entire gang dogma was built on tearing down Russia and propping up insignificant nobodies

    Except Stalin who had a very black and white view on things and people....he is many things evil but I consider Clinton/Obama/Trump/Bush and most Euro trash leaders as evil too but hard to imagine anyone besides him looking back even now. If only they had a better idea than the fucking communism.
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    Post  gbu48098 Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:42 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    More than anything I hate our elite, the same ones from the 90s; who all magically transformed into patriots and resurrectionists by now. Well, they at least in contrast to the Ukrainian elite, realized that they're treading a broken path. But perhaps realized too late.
    All countries have oligarchs and they are necessary evil, they are part of the system and when super powers collapse chaos is what generally remains whether it is China/Japan/Russia or US. Big tech is million times worse than Russian oligarchs back then at the moment....these big ones destroy anything they touch and nothing is sacred to them. So pick your poison. I respect your opinions in general but you seem to have changed your equilibrium on views about these things to more conservative center-right these days.


    And all this import-substitution, whatever - what the hell good is it if it was started only in 2014, when everything is a shadow of what it once was. And what, in practice, is there left to do? To confront the West in exchange for giving up part of our sovereignty and economy to China instead? Well, that's all that's left now.
    Well, time as a 4th dimension is the most interesting thing in everything social, physical and spiritual sense. It takes someone like Putin and what he inherited in 2000 time to address and restrain the very forces you seem to hate....otherwise he would look like tactless Trump popular albeit but lost fairly/unfairly, he never understood the system or tried and then come up with a strategy. It took that many years atleast till Georgia war for Rooskies to wake up from slumber and ofcourse Putin waited till 2014 and made mistakes in Ukraine and Crimea was the wager and redline for Russians to up the anti against West. They met their objectives, rest will play out over time. Soviets gave up winning positions around revolution time against Germany but thats how things are....took WW2 to get some of those back with interest.

    Only complaint I have against Russians is they take loses and accept punishment and apologies too easily....Turkey Su-24, Azerbaijan MI heli, Israel Il-20 and so on. Soviets were better in that respect dishing out and Americans are the best. In the samurai world, even the females used to take vengeance and revenge if someone killed their close one. Israelis are respectable in that sense.

    Note: Admins, this site has an ancient feel vs some other popular forums. My bitching as a new member
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    Post  zorobabel Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:42 am

    Peter Hitchens is smarter than he lets on. You have to act dumb to get published in the UK.

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    Post  auslander Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:04 am

    gbu48098 wrote:Note: Admins, this site has an ancient feel vs some other popular forums. My bitching as a new member

    Elucidate, please. Ancient as in tech, as in content, as in members, as is what?
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:05 am

    gbu48098 wrote:...Note: Admins, this site has an ancient feel vs some other popular forums. My bitching as a new member

    Ancient feel is what we are here for, all other forums look like Facebook these days Cool
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    Post  auslander Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:09 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    gbu48098 wrote:...Note: Admins, this site has an ancient feel vs some other popular forums. My bitching as a new member

    Ancient feel is what we are here for, all other forums look like Facebook these days Cool

    Which is why I'm not, and never will be, on assbook, titter, whatever. Scroo'em.

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    Post  gbu48098 Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:20 am

    auslander wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    gbu48098 wrote:...Note: Admins, this site has an ancient feel vs some other popular forums. My bitching as a new member

    Ancient feel is what we are here for, all other forums look like Facebook these days Cool

    Which is why I'm not, and never will be, on assbook, titter, whatever. Scroo'em.

    Me neither, never opened that crap or browsed. Quoting by highlighting, screen space optimization, fonts, cursor positions and so on. I will try to compile a list as I use it more. I like ancient when done right like Linux.....it just feels inconsistent on the layout, button placements and so on.
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    Post  auslander Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:24 am

    gbu48098 wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    gbu48098 wrote:...Note: Admins, this site has an ancient feel vs some other popular forums. My bitching as a new member

    Ancient feel is what we are here for, all other forums look like Facebook these days Cool

    Which is why I'm not, and never will be, on assbook, titter, whatever. Scroo'em.

    Me neither, never opened that crap or browsed. Quoting by highlighting, screen space optimization, fonts, cursor positions and so on. I will try to compile a list as I use it more. I like ancient when done right like Linux.....it just feels inconsistent on the layout, button placements and so on.

    Get used to it. While I read far from every post on forum, first time I've heard of someone, especially a new member, complaining about the site. Nothing wrong with 'old', doesn't mean outdated, means 'works good'. Besides, you ain't writing War and Peace here. KISS principle is a working principle.

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    Post  gbu48098 Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:25 am

    auslander wrote:
    gbu48098 wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    gbu48098 wrote:...Note: Admins, this site has an ancient feel vs some other popular forums. My bitching as a new member

    Ancient feel is what we are here for, all other forums look like Facebook these days Cool

    Which is why I'm not, and never will be, on assbook, titter, whatever. Scroo'em.

    Me neither, never opened that crap or browsed. Quoting by highlighting, screen space optimization, fonts, cursor positions and so on. I will try to compile a list as I use it more. I like ancient when done right like Linux.....it just feels inconsistent on the layout, button placements and so on.

    Get used to it. While I read far from every post on forum, first time I've heard of someone, especially a new member, complaining about the site. Nothing wrong with 'old', doesn't mean outdated, means 'works good'. Besides, you ain't writing War and Peace here.

    No need to state the default or implied. You asked and I provided, I wasn't going to do an airstrike as a follow up
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    Post  auslander Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:40 am

    gbu48098 wrote: No need to state the default or implied. You asked and I provided, I wasn't going to do an airstrike as a follow up
    Good for you. Congratulations, you hold the record for the shortest time for the trip to 'ignore', joining the other two I have on the vaunted plateau.
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    Post  gbu48098 Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:01 am

    auslander wrote:
    gbu48098 wrote: No need to state the default or implied. You asked and I provided, I wasn't going to do an airstrike as a follow up
    Good for you. Congratulations, you hold the record for the shortest time for the trip to 'ignore', joining the other two I have on the vaunted plateau.

    Don't give a crap, who cares whether you are new or here for centuries....if I dish out then you do the same, in this case you were irrational, you asked details and I provided and then you pulled your ego ranking like it means a damn
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:45 am

    I think the thread could use some more light-hearted content

    Ladies and Gentlemen, the Spiderman of Vinnitsa
    https://twitter.com/SergUA63/status/1383337800360075264?s=20

    auslander and 11E like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  flamming_python Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:50 am

    gbu48098 wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    gbu48098 wrote: No need to state the default or implied. You asked and I provided, I wasn't going to do an airstrike as a follow up
    Good for you. Congratulations, you hold the record for the shortest time for the trip to 'ignore', joining the other two I have on the vaunted plateau.

    Don't give a crap, who cares whether you are new or here for centuries....if I dish out then you do the same, in this case you were irrational, you asked details and I provided and then you pulled your ego ranking like it means a damn

    Are you that bitcoin guy again?

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

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