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    Coronavirus pandemic 2019-20 #3

    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter


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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:53 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Mir wrote:In the late 90's the FDA approved another drug called Vioxx - was later banned after it killed 50 000, but yes I wanted to share the good news with Gary Laughing

    EDIT: Looks like Vioxx is making a comeback!  Shocked

    Interesting story here ..
    https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/21/vioxx-drug-safety-legacy-senator-michael-enzi/

    "The prescription painkiller originally known as Vioxx may be making a comeback after its maker, Merck, abruptly pulled it from the market in 2004 following studies that showed the drug roughly doubled patients’ risks of heart attack and stroke and may have contributed to an estimated 60,000 deaths."

    The WikiCrappia page is clearly shilling for Merck.

    https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/merck-manipulated-science-about-drug-vioxx

    To increase the likelihood of FDA approval for its anti-inflammatory and arthritis drug Vioxx, the pharmaceutical giant Merck used flawed methodologies biased toward predetermined results to exaggerate the drug’s positive effects. Internal documents made public in litigation revealed that a Merck marketing team had developed a strategy called ADVANTAGE (Assessment of Differences between Vioxx And Naproxen To Ascertain Gastrointestinal tolerability and Effectiveness) to skew the results of clinical trials in the drug’s favor. As part of the strategy, scientists manipulated the trial design by comparing the drug to naproxen, a pain reliever sold under brand names such as Aleve, rather than to a placebo.

    The FDA is the willing simp for such tactics.   They have no critical review and published studies, no matter how bad, are enough.

    Health Canada is the same garbage as the FDA:

    https://www.cmaj.ca/content/172/1/5

    Note how Vioxx has metabolic syndrome side effects (heart attacks, stroke).  



    I'm thinking, as best as I can remember, I saw an elderly woman taking vioxx go into heart failure. I checked her (as I checked every person at the beginning of my shift) and her pulse was 46 per minute. I called doc, and sent her to the E.R. No, come to think, I think it was BEXTRA.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:06 pm

    The pharmaceutical companies develop drugs based on the current level of medicine science. None of them are sci-fi realm visionaries.
    The spectrum of products on the market all disrupt the metabolism in some fashion. This includes mitochondrial process disruption and
    liver damage. So Vioxx is not the only product with nasty side effects.

    The official line on health being fed to the public is utterly detached from any objective good. It is spreading insulin resistance and
    fatty liver disease like wildfire for the last 40+ years. But this is not just about obesity. It is about cancer and auto-immune disorders
    as well. Arthritis did not show up in humans until we settled onto farms and made grains a staple. This is proven by the record of
    skeletal remains over the last 10,000 years. No, people did not live only until the age of 30 back before the settling on grain plantations.
    The 30 years is actually what Europeans had for lifespans during the middle ages and even later. Romans actually did quite well
    before the dark ages. But the idea that New World aboriginals and humans going back 10,000 years had 30 year lifespans is a total
    myth.

    GarryB and Mir like this post

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    Post  kvs Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:30 pm

    The current overflow crisis in Texas looks like it is being engineered. The hospitals have been firing hundreds of nurses and other
    medical workers and then claiming they don't have enough staff.

    Smells so bad it almost makes you pass out.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:33 am

    We see how the anti-vaxxer and political talking point response serves to create a distraction from the real problems.

    Governments can complain about anti vaxxers all they want but they are primarily to blame.

    You would think to get approval to be sold to people there would be tests and checks to ensure the safety of the public, but most of the time it seems they want the makers of the product to produce evidence that it has been tested and shown to be safe and then they demand a nice big fee for clearing it for sale.

    Big industry often write the rules for sales and marketing themselves so a product like Tic Tacs that is almost completely made of sugar can have sugar free on the label because of manipulation and bullshit... if the government regulators actually cared about public health there is no way they could get away with such criminal deception.... but they do because the regulators don't care about public health and care more about commerce and big business making even more money than they already do.

    It does not surprise me that people don't believe claims about vaccines, but most of the conspiracy theories that suggest you are safer not to be vaccinated are just that... conspiracy theories.

    Not all "vaccines" are the same and there is zero reason to push Pfizer and Moderna crap
    in stead of all the proven by decades of use approaches. Why re-invent the wheel in this case? It is the immune
    system that is doing the work and not the vaccine.

    I agree... a few western pharma companies took advantage of the situation to get billions invested into a new area of research they were interested in and we are all guinea pigs in the process... I am embarrassed that New Zealand is such a bitch and just signed up an exclusive deal with Pfizer without looking at other options and other results.... it is not like we didn't have the time and we certainly should have the capacity to make our own vaccines like Sputnik V, but politically that was not a choice available to us it seems... despite WTO rules which our government stuck to religiously costing us a clothes making industry and a car making industry, it seems not everyone is playing fair so we get little choice in the matter ultimately.

    You tend to make make a lot of assumptions based on absolutely nothing, but maybe I should share that I live in a rural part of the country which means I am isolated anyway. Just me and the wife. BTW my wife was the reckless one - she went to town for some shopping - she was the one who infected me. I did not consider any criminal charger against her for putting my life in danger.

    Still making jokes... you do know the delta variant kills children too, but what do you care... it is not your problem.

    If you want some excitement (problems) in your life you should come and live in South Africa! A adrenaline rush a minute!

    Don't be stupid... the sensible thing would be to go to Afghanistan and become an ISIS bride and after popping out a few goat fucking nutters tell my government (NZ) whose passport I burned when I left of course that I have changed my mind and I want to come home and get a free fully furnished house and car and a living allowance and counselling to help me deal with coming back to a modern western society...

    Yes being a country boy I tend to care more for animals than the human kind - sorry.

    Hey... I just prefer rabbits because most dogs are too big to eat in one sitting that is all. Same reason I prefer chicken to turkey.

    If you read the article you would have seen that the comments that I quoted from New Zealanders - were the only ones from New Zealand (at the time). They all said the same thing - New Zealand overreacted just like I said right at the beginning and I still think so.

    If they were more than a vocal minority then there would be protests and all sorts of bullshit like you see in other western countries like the UK and France.

    The honest truth is that they are actually whiny bastards... for fucks sake we had about 4 weeks of lock downs to begin with and since then this is the first extra lock down we have had... compared with most other western countries we have been exceptionally lucky... but those whiny  censored live in a country at the arse end of the world that has barely been touched by this disease and they think it is nothing... just like you... but if you look at the experience of other countries once it is in and spreading you are fucked so obviously you isolate and block imports and you prevent it becoming a problem.

    The fact that that does not make sense to you makes me appreciate you living out in the sticks brother.

    In the late 90's the FDA approved another drug called Vioxx - was later banned after it killed 50 000, but yes I wanted to share the good news with Gary

    I don't care what Faggots and Dumb Asses approve... means nothing at all to me.

    Does not mean we can all go commando and wing it with infectious diseases and think that is just OK.

    You remind me of Boris Johnson... a Covid outbreak and the dumb censored  goes to a hospital to visit people who caught it... no mask... no gloves... and then somehow he gets Covid and refuses to go to hospital and almost dies and they force him to go to hospital the the fucking asshole lives.... what a censored .

    "The prescription painkiller originally known as Vioxx may be making a comeback after its maker, Merck, abruptly pulled it from the market in 2004 following studies that showed the drug roughly doubled patients’ risks of heart attack and stroke and may have contributed to an estimated 60,000 deaths."

    Americans and their painkillers... they need a chemical to protect them from life... so I would say a lethal drug is exactly what they actually need.

    FROM MY cousin's wife, Lea County New Mexico

    You tell her from Mir not to be so silly... the natural immunity of those people will keep them safe... or they probably would have died from the normal flu anyway.... isn't that your message Mir and KVS and Vann?

    The WikiCrappia page is clearly shilling for Merck.

    The core of the problem is that the FDA is a rubber stamp company that accepts fees but does not check the product is safe and relies on the companies that make the product to come up with data that shows it is... they could care less about public health...

    I don't even blame the drug companies...

    The pharmaceutical companies develop drugs based on the current level of medicine science.

    The big pharma companies spend about 90% of their money on advertising direct to the public and to doctors to encourage them to use their products specifically by name.... most investment in new drugs and new treatments comes from government funding.

    The current overflow crisis in Texas looks like it is being engineered. The hospitals have been firing hundreds of nurses and other
    medical workers and then claiming they don't have enough staff.

    Smells so bad it almost makes you pass out.

    The UK can spend 350 billion on Trident and can only afford a 1% pay increase for health care workers... it sounds like a plan to under fund so they can privatise and throw the British people to the dogs regarding healthcare the way the Americans did with healthcare insurance...

    The real irony is that most healthcare insurance companies keep making enormous profits simply by only insuring people who don't need cover, and cutting coverage of those that do.

    It also worked for mental health.... how many western countries got rid of mental hospitals instead of reforming them because putting people back into the community was the best thing for them... and we wonder why there are so many shootings in the US.... honestly the way the rich screw the poor I am surprised shootings don't happen more often... especially the super rich and the politicians... who could possibly do something but really could care less.
    Cowboy's daughter
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:26 am

    kvs wrote:The current overflow crisis in Texas looks like it is being engineered.   The hospitals have been firing hundreds of nurses and other
    medical workers and then claiming they don't have enough staff.

    Smells so bad it almost makes you pass out.


    Do you have a source? My post was about Lea County, New Mexico, not Texas.
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    Post  kvs Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:58 pm

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/more-than-150-texas-hospital-workers-fired-resign-over-covid-19-vaccine-1.5481551

    My post was not a direct reply to yours. Texas hospitals are undergoing staffing problems.

    The staff who chose unemployment over vaccinations are not all idiots. I bet most of them already got the disease and recovered
    so they do not need vaccines. Vaccines do not clean your system of virus so they are not a reduction in risk of Covid-19 propagation
    outside the elimination of symptoms (sneezing, coughing) that increase contagiousness. Recovering from the infection without
    vaccination does the same thing.

    The agenda is to inject mRNA "vaccines" into everyone regardless of need.

    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:32 pm

    You remind me of Boris Johnson... a Covid outbreak and the dumb  censored   goes to a hospital to visit people who caught it... no mask... no gloves... and then somehow he gets Covid and refuses to go to hospital and almost dies and they force him to go to hospital the the fucking asshole lives.... what a censored .

    Your arguments certainly don't make a lot of sense at all, but I would suggest you brush up a bit on your forum rules sunny
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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:26 pm

    "Sean Penn told the unvaccinated to not see his new film. Unfortunately for him, the vaccinated don’t seem interested, either"

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/532969-sean-penn-covid19-vaccine/

    "Filmmaker and activist Sean Penn is continuing his ego-driven fight against those unvaccinated against Covid-19, now comparing them to murderers and saying they shouldn’t see his new flop of a film, ‘Flag Day.’

    Appearing on ‘Late Night with Seth Meyers’ on Monday evening, Penn was faced with a conundrum. On his press tour to promote ‘Flag Day’ – a film where he plays a criminal father to a daughter played by his own offspring, Dylan – Penn has already compared being unvaccinated to putting a gun to someone else’s head.

    He’s been one of Hollywood’s biggest fearmongers when it comes to the pandemic, even recently refusing to return to the production of a miniseries until everyone on set agreed to get inoculated."
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:It does not surprise me that people don't believe claims about vaccines

    The existence of anti-vaxxers and vaccine skeptics in the U.S. showed two problems.

    First, the people severely distrust the government, government agencies, and the Big Pharma which are notorious for exploit and oppress the people, rather than taking care of the people like they always claim to.

    Second, the people was completely abandoned by the U.S. ruling class, and was left to swim in a sea of information and rumors, much of which are bullshit and fake news, and the people have no way to figure out what is fake news and what is true except for sheer experience and unguided intuition, most of which are not correct.

    The result is clear: people was left vulnerable against the conspiracy theories and fake news about medicines and vaccines, lead to tragedies like the cases of quinone overdoes, or cases of people using animal drugs.

    We are having 630000 deads and 38.2 mil infected in the U.S. This is the crime against humanity of the U.S. capitalism, that it have to answer in front of the people and history, either doing the soft way or hard way.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:Boris Johnson... a Covid outbreak and the dumb censored  goes to a hospital to visit people who caught it... no mask... no gloves... and then somehow he gets Covid and refuses to go to hospital and almost dies and they force him to go to hospital the the fucking asshole lives.... what a censored .

    Boris Johnson, and a more severe case that is Jair Bolsonaro, can be paranoid as they want, but they will always be supported by a powerful politico-economical forces: that is the big capitalists.

    That is the capitalists do not want to carry out the lockdown, Bolsonaro and Johnson are just their representative.

    The reason is simple. Proper lockdown negatively affect the business activities of the capitalist. Proper and rigorous hygiene, quarantine, and anti-contagion in workplaces increase the cost for the capitalists. And the capitalists do not want to spend their money to assist the charity and welfare program for the poor people and workers during the lockdown period because that does not generate surplus value for the capitalists.

    On the other hand, the capitalist demand that goverment must relieve taxes and fees against them. The capitalist demand that the state budget must be spent to "assist" the wealthy "job creators". The capitalists demand that the worker must be forced to work overtime with reduced wages to "compensate" for the time of lockdown during outbreaks, which are caused by the laid-back, irresponsible and neglectful attitudes of the capitalists.

    You already see the cases that the capitalists blalantly say that they want vaccination so that they can remove the lockdown and ignore all the hygiene and safetly protocol. But we already know that the virus mutations begin to resist the effect of the vaccines.

    In short the capitalist refuse to carry the lockdown and quarantine which leads to devastating outbreaks, spreading, and mutation, and the capitalists demand that the society must pay who what the capitalists did.

    All of these push the working class and the poor people into the danger of getting infected, and push the economical burden on the working class. But the capitalists do not care.

    Boris Johnson lives. Bolsonaro lives. The big capitalists lives. Thanks to the state-of-the-art medical services and protection they can affords. But many poor people, poor workingmen worldwide are suffering and perished during the pandemic, they need a proper answer for the tragedy that they are having although not cause by them.

    I fail to understand why the capitalists still believe that they themselves are human. I see not even a miligram of humanity inside parasitic douchebags like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, or the self-proclaimed "job-creators".

    China is a good example that the Covid-19 can be controlled and extinguished by proper lockdowns and mobilization of society resources. And capitalism is showing many examples that it is the biggest pandemic in the known world.
    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:26 pm

    Sputnik V vaccine registered in Indonesia, 25/08/2021.

    On August 25, 2021, the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF, the sovereign wealth fund of the Russian Federation) announced the registration of the Russian vaccine against the Sputnik V coronavirus in the Republic of Indonesia under an emergency use authorization (EUA).

    Indonesia became the 70th state to register the Russian Sputnik V vaccine.

    The total population of all countries that approved Sputnik V was more than 50% of the world's population.

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/142916/

    kvs and Mir like this post

    Cowboy's daughter
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:04 am

    higurashihougi wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Boris Johnson... a Covid outbreak and the dumb censored  goes to a hospital to visit people who caught it... no mask... no gloves... and then somehow he gets Covid and refuses to go to hospital and almost dies and they force him to go to hospital the the fucking asshole lives.... what a censored .

    Boris Johnson, and a more severe case that is Jair Bolsonaro, can be paranoid as they want, but they will always be supported by a powerful politico-economical forces: that is the big capitalists.

    That is the capitalists do not want to carry out the lockdown, Bolsonaro and Johnson are just their representative.

    The reason is simple. Proper lockdown negatively affect the business activities of the capitalist. Proper and rigorous hygiene, quarantine, and anti-contagion in workplaces increase the cost for the capitalists. And the capitalists do not want to spend their money to assist the charity and welfare program for the poor people and workers during the lockdown period because that does not generate surplus value for the capitalists.

    On the other hand, the capitalist demand that goverment must relieve taxes and fees against them. The capitalist demand that the state budget must be spent to "assist" the wealthy "job creators". The capitalists demand that the worker must be forced to work overtime with reduced wages to "compensate" for the time of lockdown during outbreaks, which are caused by the laid-back, irresponsible and neglectful attitudes of the capitalists.

    You already see the cases that the capitalists blalantly say that they want vaccination so that they can remove the lockdown and ignore all the hygiene and safetly protocol. But we already know that the virus mutations begin to resist the effect of the vaccines.

    In short the capitalist refuse to carry the lockdown and quarantine which leads to devastating outbreaks, spreading, and mutation, and the capitalists demand that the society must pay who what the capitalists did.

    All of these push the working class and the poor people into the danger of getting infected, and push the economical burden on the working class. But the capitalists do not care.

    Boris Johnson lives. Bolsonaro lives. The big capitalists lives. Thanks to the state-of-the-art medical services and protection they can affords. But many poor people, poor workingmen worldwide are suffering and perished during the pandemic, they need a proper answer for the tragedy that they are having although not cause by them.

    I fail to understand why the capitalists still believe that they themselves are human. I see not even a miligram of humanity inside parasitic douchebags like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, or the self-proclaimed "job-creators".

    China is a good example that the Covid-19 can be controlled and extinguished by proper lockdowns and mobilization of society resources. And capitalism is showing many examples that it is the biggest pandemic in the known world.

    I have family who will quit their jobs before taking a vaccine.

    My daughter said, there will always be another variant.

    Some of my family work at good paying jobs where they will not mandate a vaccine.

    Mir likes this post

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    Post  Airbornewolf Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:40 am

    i rejected three times now to take an covid 19 vaccine.

    I am not anti vaccination.
    I really am looking forward to go out with my co-workers and get drunk on the company's expense Wink.

    Issue is... i know the government is full of shit.
    first the malaria tablets i was given where safe to afghanistan.
    They damage kidney's severely.

    Then came the chrome-6 debacle.
    It was all safe, then it was discovered it was an highly cancerous agent.

    Then came the burnpits in Afghanistan.
    Again, no issues there.
    guys that where barely past their teens died of lung cancer.

    I just refuse to be a lab-rat for the next thing.

    My co-workers are fine with me not taking the vaccine.
    When Sputnik becomes available i will take it.

    Otherwise ill take my chances.

    better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.

    That said, i prefer life tough so i hope EMA quickly authorises Sputnik Razz.

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    Post  kvs Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:04 am

    Given the limited choices I would have taken the AstraZeneca vaccine but the Canadian regime has removed it as an option.
    Only Pfizer and Moderna for the gullible masses.

    GTFO, maggots.

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    Post  higurashihougi Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:46 am

    @Cowboy's daughter:

    Many workers are working in the condition of neither vaccine nor any medical protection and financial assistance. In many cases, infected and illed workers are left to fend off for themselves and many perished.

    In many other cases, many poverty-stricken people are forced to violate the safety protocol because they have no viable means of income and livinghood.

    Meanwhile Big Pharma and Big Capitalist are getting richer and richer over the blood of the people.

    If money, according to Augier, “comes into the world with a congenital blood-stain on one cheek,” then capital comes dripping from head to foot, from every pore, with blood and dirt.

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    Post  nomadski Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:56 am


    I do not understand vaccine types and differences . I do not trust Doctors or lab Technicians . I trust even less Government statistics on this disease . But what to do ? On balance I think that it will be clear soon from different published sources , if vaccine types work or not . Including side effects . This winter is crucial . Numbers of infections are going up in many vaccinated countries . They are already working on new vaccine for delta variant . They also said that efficacy of vaccine is dropping . Even after two jabs and only after 6 months ! The virus seems to be winning the race . Like the common flu , vaccines had to be updated frequently and they did not offer a high level of protection . So we may have to get used to high mortality rate , three to four times the common flu . And affecting the young also .




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    Post  Mir Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:10 am

    nomadski wrote:
    So we may have to get used to high mortality rate, three to four times the common flu.

    Do you have any comparable figures from previous years as proof of this claim?

    From statistics I have seen nearly 3 million people died in 2018 due to flu related issues. If that can be taken as a rough average one would expect around 6 million to die from the flu over a period of 2 years. Right now nearly 4.5 million has perished due to covid since the outbrake 18 months ago?
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    Post  nomadski Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:25 am

    Yes the figures relate to my personal observation of published deaths from flu ( pneumonia ) in elderly patients in UK in pre -pandemic days  , compared to present daily average from covid 19 , post vaccination .

    They used to say , in the days when statistics was not so politicised that 20,000 elderly died in UK per year from pneumonia . Or 60 per day . The figures post vaccination are 100 per day and rising for Covid 19 . So at least twice .



    Last edited by nomadski on Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Mir Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:28 am

    And if you want to know what is actually happening - take a look here and judge for yourself >>

    https://healthimpactnews.com/2020/in-unprecedented-move-cdc-stops-tracking-influenza-for-2020-21-flu-season/

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    Post  Mir Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:29 am

    nomadski wrote:
    Yes the figures relate to my personal observation of published deaths from flu ( pneumonia ) in elderly patients in UK in pre -pandemic days  , compared to present daily average from covid 19 , post vaccination .


    Do you have anything more concrete than that?
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    Post  nomadski Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:36 am


    Pretty reliable from personal experience of working in NHS and long term exposure to this figure of 20,000 repeatedly in the media . More difficult to obscure info on regular long term basis . The Covid number is on TV daily .
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    Post  Mir Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:40 am

    nomadski wrote:
    They used to say , in the days when  statistics was not so politicised that 20,000 elderly died in UK per year from pneumonia . Or 60 per day . The figures post vaccination  are 100 per day and rising for Covid 19 . So at least twice .

    Do I understand you correctly - post vaccination figures are at 100 elderly fatalities per day?
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    Post  nomadski Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:41 am

    Yes . Mostly elderly . And they are increasing .

    https://www.bing.com


    Just type in coronavirusuk for data .
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:15 am

    higurashihougi wrote:@Cowboy's daughter:

    Many workers are working in the condition of neither vaccine nor any medical protection and financial assistance. In many cases, infected and illed workers are left to fend off for themselves and many perished.

    In many other cases, many poverty-stricken people are forced to violate the safety protocol because they have no viable means of income and livinghood.

    Meanwhile Big Pharma and Big Capitalist are getting richer and richer over the blood of the people.

    If money, according to Augier, “comes into the world with a congenital blood-stain on one cheek,” then capital comes dripping from head to foot, from every pore, with blood and dirt.


    Just my uneducated reply. I'm not an anti-capitalist, but I am for justice.

    There are many persons in the world, with no access to a vaccine, such as watching covid burn through India. We definitely live in an unjust and unfair world, where "the love of money is the root of all evil'.

    anti-capitalist does not equal "good", nor does "capitalist" equal good, in my book. but not loving money is definitely good.

    Big Pharma and Big Capitalist are definitely getting richer and richer over the blood of the people.

    I agree, in that I know persons who have no insurance, and if they had no job, would be left to fend for selves, except for family and friends. But I also know, many persons have survived without insurance, and self-employed.

    To be an anti-capitalist is not enough. If any country is anti-capitalist and treats their citizens as slaves, then that country is no better.

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    Post  Mir Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:32 am

    nomadski wrote:Yes . Mostly elderly . And they are increasing .

    https://www.bing.com


    Just type in coronavirusuk  for data .

    I have to say the TV (probably BBC in your case) and Bing/Google is not my go to source for anything - let alone Covid!

    Interesting (but not surprising) that the numbers are increasing amongst the elderly - in a post vaccinated environment.

    The UK is amongst the most vaccinated - just behind Israel.

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