The Situation in the Ukraine. #30

kvs wrote:@LMFS

We have different types of anti-Russian projection.   The clowns who are just NATzO fanbois and their drivel and the other evident type
that wants Russia to fail but presents this as criticism of Russia's failings.    There is no evidence of Putin walking into any NATzO traps.
He didn't in 2014 and he is not going to now.   NATzO losers want very badly for Putin to take the bait, but wishing is not getting.  

Anyone who claims that Russia did not see the 2014 coup coming is full of it.   Russia cannot fix the broken brains of people who drank
the west is best koolaid before 1990 and were riven with Nazis based in Canada, USA and other foreign states with generous financing
to spread their tendrils inside Ukraine since 1945.   I have see this activity with my own eyes and my Ukr relatives drink the koolaid
and allow themselves to be led around by the nose.    Ukria has a whole fake academic network that has completely taken over the
intellectual space.   These fakes write revisionist history and seamlessly filled the void after the collapse of communism.   Blood libel
such as "Russians in the Donbass are criminal squatters who took over Ukr land thanks to the Holodomor" is the sort of excrement that
Ukrs live on.   Somehow the known fact that the Donbass was attached to the Ukrainian SSR during its creation after 1917 has been
forgotten.   The ethnic Russians in the Donbass can point to the generations of their ancestors in local graveyards.   I guess these must
have been hoaxed up after the 1930s.   Totally sick and demented svidomite (woke) degeneracy.

True, there is the NATO camp and their different variants and then there is this falsely "pro-Russian" criticism of Putin's government by the nostalgics of communism, in the form of "intellectual" analysis, sorrow for the lost opportunities and a transparent intention to convey that a "real" statesman of the Soviet Union would have done much better. I am already tired of reading the same fake lamentations by people which are actually rooting for the defeat of Russia, in order to be proven right. They have been predicting "Putin's regime" collapse for decades now and have failed miserably, so their bitterness has reached serious levels, incompatible with objectivity. As we discussed before, "theories of the totality" are theology by other name and normally they are outright useless when confronted with reality, but after spending the whole life learning everything Lenin did and say these people have little interest in abandoning theoretical marxism, so they keep insisting in their error. Worse for them, but that is their call

@ATLASCUB

The West has invested enormous amounts of resources in ways that have brought them no so far ahead, in fact they have produced little return and reduced their margin to manouver, damaging their allies and threatening the very foundations of their international standing, for no decisive advantage. They created non critical difficulties for Russia (which were actually used to increase the country's self reliance) and have not managed to stop their development. So the West is logically inching each time closer to war, because all other strategies have failed. And even in war, Russia has progressively more and more possibilities, the last one being the ability to strike directly back at the "decision makers" in case they go too far, without needing to use strategic weapons. Soon there will be almost nothing the West can do, be it via nuclear, conventional or other types of warfare. So it is a clear case of strategic success of Russia, which has improved their standing while the West has dilapidated a lot of resources and undermined their position for the future.

As for Detente..... it's a slippery rope of assumptions. I'm not a fan of it for a rising power like Russia that has more to earn with the U.S completely out of the picture as a collapsed empire (the sooner the better) than with the rise of China as the undisputed #1 as an oversized consequence of Russia's efforts.

This sounds a bit like the world domination plans of Life of Brian's militants... An empire does not collapse because some minor actor decides it, it is because it rots from the inside. And of course Russia cannot avoid the economic rise of China or is even interested in preventing it, since it will be in its direction that they expect to channel the resources they currently sell to Europe. Russia's pragmatic approach is based on a very sober, non ideological assessment of their possibilities and a careful planing to avoid overstretching them, this is what has allowed the continued development of the resource base of the country. They avoided confrontation as much as possible and dedicated their resources to their own growth.

So the counter against Detente: The more tangled the U.S is everywhere in the word, defending its interest and client regimes the more exhausted it will become as its resources are split in all different directions to stop the incoming tide against it.... the faster it will deteriorate and collapse which means the faster Russia will be free of an oversized U.S.A hostile to its interest everywhere in the world. Detente is merely the deceit of a feigning truce.

Russia has moved to defend its interests in an increasingly vigorous way, as its possibilities have increased (see Syria, Georgia, Crimea, dealings with South American and African nations etc.). But while US has a global resource base and vassal states that they can mobilize against Russia, the later has only her own, scarce resources. So it cannot escalate hostilities, since it will deplete itself way faster than its enemy, and needs to exert restrain and only act where the victory is certain and strategic benefits will be obtained. They are not equals to the US and they don't try to act as if they were

The obvious problem is China, who likes to keep their hands clean and let others get their hands dirty while furthering their interest indirectly. So Russia must balance this dance, instead of working for free for the CCP in Beijing.

As said China's rise is beyond Russia's control. But they are managing to leverage their military potential to become the third cornerstone of the multipolar world, despite having a way smaller economy.

In general, all these topics are very basic and known to perfection by the Russian leadership. You can always say they could have done better, but there is simply no evidence they are not playing by the book and being perfectly aware of what they do. On the contrary, they are wining with a weak hand while the West is increasingly desperate, so I don't really see a clear reason for criticism.

A lot of security forces in #Kyiv this morning before scheduled address of Zelensky to the Ukrainian Parliament. Last week Zelensky claimed #Russia is planning a coup Dec 1st/2nd.

Why the USSR failed against the west was due to its own measure. In the end, USSR proved weak internally and it showed.

Russia is a different entity. Doesn't rely on a massive population even if they are the largest in Europe (population and land mass wise). Russia is significantly stronger internally than USSR was. Its more Russian centric while USSR ideology was communism which had its merits but overall failed.

Russia can do what USSR couldn't due to that lack of an ideology. It is able to adjust itself to any situation at hand. This is why it works so well going against the US and West. While the collective west is internally weak now and not on same page for nearly anything, with growing power vacuums in both EU and US.

Ukraine for most part has been a black hole for Russia. Contrary to belief, only a few states to the USSR was actually beneficial and a net contributor to overall USSR economy and development. While Ukraine was a good industrial base and scientific base for it, it was overall due to Russian resources constantly poured into Ukraine that allowed the soviet state to amount to anything basic. This shows as how much the country itself is destroying....itself. it's barely a shadow of its former self and is an artificial state ready to be taken apart.

Russia is stronger without it. Without a lot of baggage. I guess Russian true weakness is its inability to work with foreign entities around it to spark a pro Russian population and youth. Instead it does the cheap and easy way - looking through to just basic oligarchs and politicians. When instead, it needs to look at the people as a whole. So it loses allies quickly due to these colored revolutions.

But, on the flip side to all of that, it becomes clearly obvious who Russia can rely on during tough times. And it's really nobody but countries like China, India and Mongolia. None Russian states. Maybe Kazakhstan too but I wouldn't be quick to say they are good partners or allies. China's growth is a partial problem for Russia. But it's a problem easily managed. China has enemies all around it and Russia can counter balance China with India. Japan is no Russian friend but they keep saying they need Russia to counter China.

China is an economic power. But that's about it. It's military is fancy looking and big, but that's about it. Lack of experience and overall quality doesn't put it in the to be feared category. But it isn't a weakling either. Russia kept most of its western forces in same positions after the soviet-China conflict of 69in place. Only now they are starting to get modernizations. But soviets figured that is all they need for forces in the area to counter China. It's just now, they need new equipment.

Ukraine on other hand, needs a lot of people and equipment on the western side. Because, unlike China, the west isn't nearly that smart. And they may try to concentrate forces in the west to "counter" Russia. Russia proved though, to everyone, they can move massive amount of troops in a very short time period.

Will still be cheaper to incorporate some of the regions into Russia then to clean up all the nuclear waste from exploding NPP´s and all the chemical waste from rotting factories endangering russian rivers and lakes.

Most of that pollution will be local as it is in Chernobyl. Managing bitter, resentful and "occupied" people is ingesting real poison. No thanks.

People bemoan why Russia cannot win hearts and minds. That is unrealistic, the game is indeed zero sum in this regard and the NATzO west
has dominance in the brains of the idiot masses. It sells them snake oil and fake dreams. Russia trying to do the same thing is not going
to flip them around. We have seen 1000 years of anti-Russian paranoia in the west and it has become endemic. Russia needs to have the
war capacity to snuff the west out if its demented deciders try another final solution to the Russian problem. Really, the best thing for Russia
is to be able to act and to develop its economy. Idiot heard management should not be a priority, especially when the west is sinking in its
own woke excrement.

kvs wrote:Most of that pollution will be local as it is in Chernobyl.   Managing bitter, resentful and "occupied" people is ingesting real poison.  No thanks.

People bemoan why Russia cannot win hearts and minds.   That is unrealistic, the game is indeed zero sum in this regard and the NATzO west
has dominance in the brains of the idiot masses.   It sells them snake oil and fake dreams.    Russia trying to do the same thing is not going
to flip them around.   We have seen 1000 years of anti-Russian paranoia in the west and it has become endemic.   Russia needs to have the
war capacity to snuff the west out if its demented deciders try another final solution to the Russian problem.   Really, the best thing for Russia
is to be able to act and to develop its economy.   Idiot heard management should not be a priority, especially when the west is sinking in its
own woke excrement.  

I fully support Shoigu's push to make decent cities out east. If Russia shows the rest of the world you can have a good living standard and quality of life not just in western Russia but all of it, most will learn to love it even more. Already the anti Russian propaganda was failing in the west as so many saw an opportunity to go see the country during Olympics and fifa.

Ukraine's clown president demanded in his speech today that Russia have direct talks with him lol. Russia will never do that for an internal Ukrainian conflict

Edit: removed outdated info.

Arrow wrote:The West has been living all the time by Brzezinski's theory that Russia without Ukraine will not rebuild its power.  It turned out to be nonsense: Russia once again became a power without Ukraine.  Russia rebuilt the industry that was in Ukraine on its territory.No longer needs their declining industry. Some people from Ukraine work in Russia and will probably stay there.  So, demographically, Russia will also benefit from it.

And yet the Soviet Union managed to defeat the Nazis after losing all of Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltic states. It makes one wonder about how smart this great theorist was.

VARGR198 wrote:Ukraine's clown president demanded in his speech today that Russia have direct talks with him lol. Russia will never do that for an internal Ukrainian conflict

Edit: removed outdated info.

He is a pathetic clown who is trying to make Russia a party to the Minsk Accords and to convert the conflict from an internal
Ukrian one to an external one. This would allow the Kiev regime to engage in its terrorism against the Donbass as some
law enforcement operation while Russia gets all of the blame for the crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Kiev regime.

This sad little f*ck can keep dreaming in hallucinogenic Technicolor.

lancelot wrote:

Arrow wrote:The West has been living all the time by Brzezinski's theory that Russia without Ukraine will not rebuild its power.  It turned out to be nonsense: Russia once again became a power without Ukraine.  Russia rebuilt the industry that was in Ukraine on its territory.No longer needs their declining industry. Some people from Ukraine work in Russia and will probably stay there.  So, demographically, Russia will also benefit from it.

And yet the Soviet Union managed to defeat the Nazis after losing all of Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltic states. It makes one wonder about how smart this great theorist was.

Brzezinski and Trotsky were under the same delusion that Russia is nothing without Ukraine. Where this imbecilic notion
originated is unknown. Likely straight from the anus of delusional wishful thinking. Ukraine was a yoke around Russia's
neck during the USSR period and after 1991 until 2014. A real yoke and not a figurative one.

For example, a lot of tech development in the USSR was hijacked by Ukraine which had an over-representation in the
Communist Party and would argue it could deliver better products but never did and ended up sabotaging more promising
projects. Russia got a boost to its GDP from unloading this toilet of ingrates. You can see from their ludicrous expectations
of how they would be riding the gravy train after crawling up NATzO's ass what their mentality is like. A bunch of hate filled
moochers. Russia does not need such "brothers" waiting to stab it in the back. Ukria has been doing exactly that for centuries.

In fact, the poison that is Ukraine has been affecting Russia even in the realm of religion. This topic is too academic to detail
but the Ukrainian branch of the Orthodox Church was a back door for western influence. This is not a trivial issue as one can
see a religious war over the last 1000 years which has seen the removal of the original Christian faith in Slavic lands and replaced
it with dominant western one. Although religion is second tier today, the process of cultural assimilation and occupation is
still the same.

If you go by the commentary here...

Meanwhile in reality....

Putin calls on NATO to do a deal

https://www.rt.com/russia/541858-putin-demands-nato-deal/

Speaking to a group of newly-arrived ambassadors in the Kremlin on Wednesday, Putin said that his country will “insist on guarantees being set out to exclude the possibility of NATO moving any further to the east, and deploying threatening weapons close to Russian territory.”

“I would like to emphasize that we need these to be legal guarantees,” the Russian president said, “given that our Western colleagues have not fulfilled their respective oral obligations. Everyone knows they made promises they wouldn't expand eastwards, but then they did the opposite. Legitimate Russian security concerns have been ignored and continue to be ignored.”
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Putin insisted that “the threat at our Western borders is really growing, and we have repeatedly talked about it. It is enough to see how close NATO’s military infrastructure has advanced to the Russian borders. It's more than serious for us.”



If only it could be on paper this time... It would make all the difference, you see. The power of a piece of paper compels the empire to peace! Not one more inch East!

"We had a deal in Ukraine, and next thing you know, the next day Yanukovich is out of power" - Putin  

"It's 5D chess from Jedi Grandmaster Putin" - Pepe Escobar.
"Tearing that piece of paper exposes the hypocrisy of the U.S, it's simply non agreement capable" - The Saker.

Hopefully the Putin boys here contain the spasms, it's just a crude meme on dear leader. But who I'm kidding anyway, they'll have it either way.

The sooner fresh blood gets to the Kremlin the better. The man is out of his prime. Too much time in power.

Half of Ukraine’s army has now been deployed to Donbass – Moscow

VARGR198 wrote:Half of Ukraine’s army has now been deployed to Donbass – Moscow

Evidence that they are going for broke. NATzO is actually putting massive pressure on Russia to submit to
a renegotiation of the Minsk Agreement to accept its "culpability" for the Donbass war. Russia is giving NATzO
the middle finger.

Arrow wrote:



The Russians will probably never learn.  They'll be begging for deals that the US won't give a shit about.

Actions speak louder than words. Putin needs to make the right noises for propaganda purposes. Talking about peace
while not submitting to NATzO blackmail does damage to NATzO. If Putin "talked tough", then NATzO would be pointing
to this as "evidence" of "Russian aggression".

ATLASCUB wrote:

QED

I can´t find the word "deal" spoken by Putin. Instead he spoke about the lies and broken promises of the western saints.

Hole wrote:I can´t find the word "deal" spoken by Putin. Instead he spoke about the lies and broken promises of the western saints.

Putin has learned in 2014 to not trust the west and that the west won't respect any deal they sign.