The Situation in the Ukraine. #30

Spriter
@spriter99880
·
9h
Acc to OSCE observers, in recent days, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have withdrawn 83 tanks (28 - T64 and 55 - T72) from storage sites in Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

Ukraine is actively preparing


A map to remind us

Surprise...

Ukraine proposes peace plan for Donbass
https://www.rt.com/russia/544358-kiev-peace-plan-donbass/

The steps were announced by President Volodymyr Zelensky and his senior adviser, Andrey Yermak, at a conference of Ukrainian ambassadors on Tuesday. According to Zelensky, the propositions can be implemented by the parties in the Normandy Format talks – Berlin, Moscow, Kiev and Paris – and also Washington.

“We passed these steps on to President Biden, Russia, France, and Germany,” the Ukrainian leader said.

On Friday, Russian news outlet Kommersant reported that it had obtained the details of the ten-point plan. One of the steps included the holding of a phone call between Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin to discuss the facilitation of a “New Year/Christmas” mutual release and exchange for conflict-related detainees, as well as determining authorized representatives of the two presidents to start negotiations on the continuation of transiting Russian gas after 2024.

Later stages   are said to include the preparation and coordination of the agenda and final documents in readiness for a meeting between the two heads of state. After that, Kommersant said, a summit of the Normandy Format leaders would take place.

The final stage would be reaching an agreement on a number of laws submitted to Ukraine’s parliament, including proposals on the specifics of local self-government, amnesty decentralization, and holding regional elections in the uncontrolled regions of Donetsk and Lugansk. However, these are not new and were listed in the ‘Package of measures for the Implementation of the Minsk agreements’ of 2015.

Here it comes...

ATLASCUB wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:16 pm

Nord Stream 2 cannot be certified – Berlin

https://www.rt.com/russia/542998-nord-stream-germany-certification/

Baerbock, a Green politician who assumed her role in the Foreign Ministry this week, discussed the fate of the multinational project in an interview with the broadcaster ZDF on Sunday. She insisted it still hadn’t met all that was required for it to be certified.

“As things stand at the moment, this pipeline cannot be approved because it does not meet the requirements of European energy law, and the safety issues are still on the table,” she said.
Read more
Poland to ask Germany’s new leader for help in stopping Nord Stream 2 Poland to ask Germany’s new leader for help in stopping Nord Stream 2

The Greens have openly opposed the pipeline and, during the recent election campaign, called for a halt to its construction. Their coalition partners from the social-democratic SPD have been more reserved in expressing their opinion of the project.

Apart from the certification hurdles, the fate of the pipeline is directly linked to politics, Germany’s new SPD Chancellor Olaf Scholz has signaled, reiterating Berlin’s commitment to preserving the current transit of gas through Ukraine, for which Ukraine is remunerated by Russia.

“We continue to feel responsible for ensuring that Ukraine’s gas transit business remains successful. The same goes for future opportunities,” Scholz said during a joint press conference with Polish PM Mateusz Morawiecki earlier in the day.

Looking forward to that fast tracking of negotiations between Gazprom and the Ukies on a transit deal extension.. soon. Unless, of course, Putin grows hair again on his balding balls. We shall see.

Berlin tying this to a Ukraine transit extension as a conditional deal with the U.S for NS2 "approval" is going to either end up badly, or with the intended effect: a Russian bend over. Putin decides, again.

“We passed these steps on to President Biden, Russia, France, and Germany,” the Ukrainian leader said.

Which shows absolutely zero progress is possible.

Passing ideas or suggestions to Putin is pointless... Russia is not a party to this conflict... Zelensky has to talk to the leaders of the Donbass and Lugansk regions... they are the groups he is murdering and they are the groups resisting.

Zelensky has been trying to get a meeting with Putin for a long time and Putin says they have nothing to discuss... he should be talking to the rebel groups and not the president of Russia because the President of Russia does not speak for these two Ukrainian regions.

The process all along was supposed to be the Ukrainian leader having the talks he is proposing with Putin to be held with the leaders of the two republics... until he talks to them there can be no progress at all and the stalemate will continue.

Berlin tying this to a Ukraine transit extension as a conditional deal with the U.S for NS2 "approval" is going to either end up badly, or with the intended effect: a Russian bend over. Putin decides, again.

NSII was always intended to provide cheap direct gas to Germany bypassing several transit countries that all take payments for the transit... making the gas more expensive for Germany.

If Germany wants to keep buying gas going through the Ukraine then the price of gas in the EU is going to remain high... and if the Ukraine steal gas again then also unreliable too...

Which means a lot of companies that set up production in Germany because of the good work force and cheap energy are likely to look at relocating to places with more secure, cheaper and more reliable energy supplies... which does not sound like a win for Germany at all.

If fact it sounds like the US and Ukraine have Germanies panties around her ankles with a nice piece of leather between her teeth so she can bite down on to endure the entire experience.

Adolf will be spinning... maybe attach electrodes to him for power?

What a shocker!!! They've gone home

Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
4h
The Russian MoD says the Southern Military District has completed an exercise with 10k + servicemen that involved rotating the BTGs through training areas with a modular system. They said those units will now return to their permanent bases. 374/
https://function.mil.ru/news_page/coun

Who would think... at the end of an exercise that the units go home... madness.

Everyone knows exercises are to intimidate enemies or to cover the movement of troops to forward positions ready for surprise attacks... in aggression land.... ie the west.

What's with the anti Putin comments? He may be q villain in many ways but anyone siding with globohomo in this instance is either mad or ideologically deluded.

TMA1 wrote:What's with the anti Putin comments? He may be q villain in many ways but anyone siding with globohomo in this instance is either mad or ideologically deluded.

No-one's siding with globalhomo. The discussion of the matter is related to strategy, that's all.

Ukraine reveals change to military service for women Women in a range of professions, up to 60 years old, will have to register for the draft.

Just raise the white flag. Russia is on another level to fight them with grandma's.

Having such allies that push you into a war and leave as soon as it start... .

Status-6
@Archer83Able
·
3h
The British military has drawn up plans to evacuate its troops from Ukraine in the event of the Russian invasion, Daily Express reports.

Ukraine is officially listed as the poorest country in Europe - Lower then Kosovo and Moldova -

Isos wrote:Having such allies that push you into a war and leave as soon as it start...   .

Status-6
@Archer83Able
·
3h
The British military has drawn up plans to evacuate its troops from Ukraine in the event of the Russian invasion, Daily Express reports.

The Ukr generals are worse. They openly talk of defeat without NATzO support which undermines the morale of their soldiers
(aka paramilitaries). But Ukria is one big exercise at provoking Russia, so it is disposable.

VARGR198 wrote:Ukraine is officially listed as the poorest country in Europe - Lower then Kosovo and Moldova -

The Soviet reality was vastly better than the rotten oligarch toilet regime of today. People had it easy and they did not realize
how good they had it. Those breadlines involved getting bread. Today there are no breadlines and millions can't afford the
bread. The breadlines were not chronic and extreme in the USSR. We saw engineered shortages in the late 1980s as the
oligarchs in waiting were setting up the system change coup. I have posted on this in another thread. Food was deliberately
prevented from reaching the shops and dumped in the forest or allowed to rot in railway marshaling yards. Ukraine has experienced
the full progression of the coup and is an oligarch run toilet. But people can vote for parties and watch "independent" media
so that means that they must be "free".

PapaDragon wrote:

kvs wrote:...We saw engineered shortages in the late 1980s...

Hahahaha, yeah right

That shithole couldn't even produce enough food to keep it's own population above malnutrition levels and didn't even have enough control over it's own territory to deliver what little it could produce but somehow fanboys are trying to switch narrative to "engineered" shortages, the cope is unbelievable

Those losers depended on USA not to starve to death since the 70s FFS...

That's how it was. During the 70s and early 80s there was plenty of food in the shops. Breadlines only appeared in the Perestroika years.

kvs wrote:

VARGR198 wrote:Ukraine is officially listed as the poorest country in Europe - Lower then Kosovo and Moldova -

The Soviet reality was vastly better than the rotten oligarch toilet regime of today.   People had it easy and they did not realize
how good they had it.   Those breadlines involved getting bread.   Today there are no breadlines and millions can't afford the
bread.   The breadlines were not chronic and extreme in the USSR.   We saw engineered shortages in the late 1980s as the
oligarchs in waiting were setting up the system change coup.   I have posted on this in another thread.   Food was deliberately
prevented from reaching the shops and dumped in the forest or allowed to rot in railway marshaling yards.    Ukraine has experienced
the full progression of the coup and is an oligarch run toilet.   But people can vote for parties and watch "independent" media
so that means that they must be "free".  

Belarus, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, were the few countries that had a chance of doing well after being independent (in varying levels) but they were badly managed, and state coffers raided. And they failed to modernise. Had it not been for close economic ties with Russia they would have collapsed long ago. Kazakhstan out the five has did pretty well for itself. Ukraine is one of the most corrupted countries I have been to, and I have been to other ex Soviet countries, south east Asia and Africa. So goes to show just how corrupted they are. And they could never reform to EU standards.

Zelensky is acting like a two bit dictator about to be deposed.

I am not feeling any joy over the problems of this clown. It is Ukrainians who are suffering. But they are not
fully absolved of responsibility for their own plight.

Lol he is a puppet. Nothing more.

This whole conflict is entirely preventable and makes no strategic, pragmatic sense.

Firstly, the Soviet Union disbanded and the Warsaw Pact dissolved 30 years ago.

NATO has already antagonized and provoked Russia by lying and expanding eastward, after promising it would not do so, and incorporating the Baltic countries, which were formerly part of the Soviet Union.

The Baltic countries themselves are some of the weakest members of NATO, regularly failing to meet the 2% military spending requirement. It has been repeatedly confirmed by expert opinion that Russia could conquer the Baltics in as little as 60 days and prevent all NATO efforts to come to their aid. The Baltic countries are a liability.

Ukraine is an even greater liability if it becomes a NATO member. Ukraine's government has been accused of being extremely corrupt and is widely thought to have become even more corrupt AFTER the pro-Russian Yanukovych was kicked out of office and fled the country. Not to mention the ongoing investigation regarding Hunter Biden's ties to Ukrainian oligarchs

US Congressman said that the US should not rule out a preemptive nuclear strike against Russia if it invades Ukraine.

Now South Korea and Japan, for instance, have been longtime allies of the US for over 70 years. South Korea has fought alongside the US in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Both are some of the strongest economies in Asia, so it makes sense for the US to come to their aid.

But Ukraine? Ukraine is not an ally of the West and was not seen as a potential ally until very recently. Most Ukrainians weren't even interested in joining NATO

You don't see Russia setting up military bases in Latin America, the Caribbean islands, Mexico, and Canada. Russia pragmatically respects the US sphere of influence and only asks the same treatment is returned to it.

Are the US and NATO purposefully ratcheting up hostilities with Russia over Ukraine, a country that is not even a member state of NATO just to distract themselves for their own many MANY self-inflicted problems?

Because it looks a lot like that.

Ukraine is a military blackmail pivot. Deploying strategic missiles on its territory gets at least some of that nuclear primacy that
the US dreams about. Ukraine also serves as a base for infiltration of disruptive agents into Russia since there is no filter
on Ukrainians in Russia. They are never going to banned and expelled. Right now there are thousands of western Ukrainians
in Russia supposedly being guest workers. Given how they foam at the mouth against Russia, they are easily recruited.
The US does not tolerate domestic "seditionists" it would go to war over foreign ones on its soil. So this is not a minor security
issue for Russia.

All the talk about free trade and fairness in international relations is so much BS. In reality it is a protection/colonial racket where
power centers such as Washington control a stable of countries. Russia refuses to bend the knee and is too resource rich and
competitive in terms of a whole spectrum of products. It is real competition to the US and that US cannot have any such competitors.
China has moved into this "existential threat" category as well since it decided to have its own economic agenda. For some reason
western transnationals assumed that they would be running China like a sweatshop and trapped consumer pool for their products.

We are in a transition period where the old western dominated order is fading and new economic and power centers are establishing
themselves. Instead of accepting this natural development path we have the old guard trying to maintain the lost cause status quo.

Do majority of Ukrainians even want to join NATO today?

Cinderblock108 wrote:The Baltic countries themselves are some of the weakest members of NATO, regularly failing to meet the 2% military spending requirement. It has been repeatedly confirmed by expert opinion that Russia could conquer the Baltics in as little as 60 days and prevent all NATO efforts to come to their aid. The Baltic countries are a liability.

Ukraine is an even greater liability if it becomes a NATO member. Ukraine's government has been accused of being extremely corrupt and is widely thought to have become even more corrupt AFTER the pro-Russian Yanukovych was kicked out of office and fled the country. Not to mention the ongoing investigation regarding Hunter Biden's ties to Ukrainian oligarchs

US Congressman said that the US should not rule out a preemptive nuclear strike against Russia if it invades Ukraine.

60 days? The Baltics would be lucky to last a week. Given that Russia can position troops in Belarus and Kaliningrad I would be surprised if the war lasted over 3 days.
Of the Eastern nations only Poland is shaping up to be any use to NATO but given the geography of the terrain they control I do not expect much.
Their military equipment is also limited due to lack of finances so they should only finish their modernization in a decade.

Ukraine probably looked at Poland and thought if they joined the EU and NATO they would get a boost to their economy. But they forget Poland turned into basically a sweatshop for Germany's industries and its own industrial economy basically collapsed and people got moved into the services sector. They also ignored their vast economic ties with Russia which makes them joining any project which excludes the Russian market basically a death knell to their economy. They would have been better off staying neutral.

As for the US using nukes on Russia then good luck. If they use them on Russian soil or radiation goes into Russia I expect the same to happen to them. The question is would the Russians even bother to go with anything but a total decapitation strike in case that happened.

It's simple: fight the Russians to the last Ukrainian.

They managed to take people who were historically Russian brother and turned them against Russia. They see it as a great achievement of the west. So they wish to use Ukraine against Russia to split Russia apart so the US can garner control over Russian territory, resources and its people. This is the US for their dominance around the world. To be the sole power.  Russia and China are two nations that are a problem  to their plans and goals. So it's about whittling away both, small bits at a time. In the end, they won't win because they themselves are slowly collapsing while people are starting to wake up.  Ukraine on the other hand are still asleep at the wheel. They believe that no matter how bad they are, how bad their situation is, the fact they are collapsing economically and what not, that they aren't Russia.  And with that mindset, US can use it against Russia.

What has actually kept Russia secured for so long was a mixture between its Nukes and its intelligence agency. Now it is it's army and economic protectionism.

lancelot wrote:

Cinderblock108 wrote:The Baltic countries themselves are some of the weakest members of NATO, regularly failing to meet the 2% military spending requirement. It has been repeatedly confirmed by expert opinion that Russia could conquer the Baltics in as little as 60 days and prevent all NATO efforts to come to their aid. The Baltic countries are a liability.

Ukraine is an even greater liability if it becomes a NATO member. Ukraine's government has been accused of being extremely corrupt and is widely thought to have become even more corrupt AFTER the pro-Russian Yanukovych was kicked out of office and fled the country. Not to mention the ongoing investigation regarding Hunter Biden's ties to Ukrainian oligarchs

US Congressman said that the US should not rule out a preemptive nuclear strike against Russia if it invades Ukraine.

60 days? The Baltics would be lucky to last a week. Given that Russia can position troops in Belarus and Kaliningrad I would be surprised if the war lasted over 3 days.
Of the Eastern nations only Poland is shaping up to be any use to NATO but given the geography of the terrain they control I do not expect much.
Their military equipment is also limited due to lack of finances so they should only finish their modernization in a decade.

Ukraine probably looked at Poland and thought if they joined the EU and NATO they would get a boost to their economy. But they forget Poland turned into basically a sweatshop for Germany's industries and its own industrial economy basically collapsed and people got moved into the services sector. They also ignored their vast economic ties with Russia which makes them joining any project which excludes the Russian market basically a death knell to their economy. They would have been better off staying neutral.

As for the US using nukes on Russia then good luck. If they use them on Russian soil or radiation goes into Russia I expect the same to happen to them. The question is would the Russians even bother to go with anything but a total decapitation strike in case that happened.

The US is the only country to have used nuclear weapons in a war. The US should give them up, more than anyone.