Russian special military operation in Ukraine #2

Lurk83 wrote:Absolutely horrific pictures of Russian BTRs being hit with like 20 Molotovs in Kiev.  It’s only day 2/3 but I think Russia has bitten off more than it can chew.

Molotovs wont do anything to a their BTR's

Feels disastrous.

A few reports of two downed Il-76s, confirmed by "US officials."

Regardless, will come back in a few days and see how things have progressed. Not clear on why 3/4 of the Iskander stock hasn't taken out all local AD systems, unless ground intelligence in Ukraine is much worse than anyone could have imagined.

zorobabel wrote:Feels disastrous.

A few reports of two downed Il-76s, confirmed by "US officials."

Regardless, will come back in a few days and see how things have progressed. Not clear on why 3/4 of the Iskander stock hasn't taken out all local AD systems, unless ground intelligence in Ukraine is much worse than anyone could have imagined.

They want to avoid civilian casualties. The Russians are definitely holding back in many respects and it's hurting them.

Lurk83 wrote:Absolutely horrific pictures of Russian BTRs being hit with like 20 Molotovs in Kiev.  It’s only day 2/3 but I think Russia has bitten off more than it can chew.

You probably seen Maidan pictures. No such thing happened as Russians didn't deploy mechanised forces there

Its going slow because Zelensky has agreed to negotiate and there is no need to hit them with hellfire and brimstone then have to fix the mess you made if you can get them to surrender.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Lurk83 wrote:Absolutely horrific pictures of Russian BTRs being hit with like 20 Molotovs in Kiev.  It’s only day 2/3 but I think Russia has bitten off more than it can chew.

Molotovs wont do anything to a their BTR's

They will do damage to any armoured vehicle, most likely causing engine to stall by suphocation or seepage of burning liquid. But he is talking about Maidain riots

Link

Looks like Zelensky ordered the punitive forces in the Donbass to scurry on to Kharkov and Kiev since they have more
important things to do.

This achieves one of the prime objectives of the Russian operation.   After two days.

If Ilyushins were shot down, then heads of Russian op should roll, it's that simple. War will not stop.

The Ottoman wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:

Americans took 30 days to finish the Iraqi army

Russia is 2 days into its operation and people think it should be over,  iraq was not supported by Russia while Ukraine is supported by the entire west.

This is game changing warfare we see,  Russia fights the largest army of europe and has taken their capital city in 2 days... people need to let it sink in.

Georgia was not even this quick,  and Russia has used very small forces thus far to achieve results in only 2 days

Please mate, the capital of Ukraine is next to the border of Belanus. Ofcourse Russia is surrounding Kiev (still not taken).

A very costly war. Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk was more than enough for Russia. Putin made a costly mistake.

Stop talking stupidity , you suffer from metal fart problems.

There was no fight in Crimea , it was taken without firing a single bullet by russian army.
This was a free gift for Russia ,their economy added to the russian budget.
in donetsk and lugansk it was rebels who did the fighting , russia supplied the weapons for self
defense. This conflict was necessary to bleed ukraine and NATO ,to force them into negotiating table
and respect the ethnics russian minorities rights there , this forced kiev into a peace trap agreement supported by united nations , that america did not like it.   US pressured kiev to not implement it , and not recognize minority rights for political representation in kiev ,not even their language and choose instead to continue fighting.. 8 years later enough is enough , now russia is pacifying ukraine.
if they want to fight they now need to fight russian army.  that is taking their entire country .

When it comes to iraq.. it took 4 weeks for americans to capture bagdad ,and this was versus an army with very primitive weapons from the 70s.  that had nothing ,no airforce , no tanks , no anti tank weapons , had nothing to fight americans.. and still it took them a month to enter bagdad.. and lost a dozen of f-16 planes.. and a few thousands of casualties if contractors included.

The so called "speed" of US military in bagdad had consequences of US bombing to hell entire cities ,
terrorizing all civilians and killing them too.  half a millions of civilians were killed during US invasion of iraq.  

Russian army is not targeting civilians...

So this is why the russian army is taking a lot of care when fighting in kiev , that will likely use light weapons for fighting there , which pose a big risk for the life of the russian military , because kiev  have advanced portable stinger missiles and anti tank weapons.

after bagdad was taken , they only encircle the other major cities,, and took many months
to liberate them. it took them months to capture falluya. even when iraquis had only light weapons and a few rocket grenades useless vs american tanks. And the US invasion had half a million american soldiers there... versus russia that is only using a few dozens of thousands soldiers.

So no matter how you spin this , Russia is teaching NATO efficiency in combat ,do a lot more faster with far less soldiers.  Erdogan had to use 100,000 soldiers , to capture zones that unarmed kurds had control.  And turkey did not had to fight at all , the alqaeda fighters that erdogan support had control already over idlib , so there the turkey army did not even fight.. it was under control of terrorist working for erdogan.

So don't make comparisons.. turkey was wiped in the korean war with nato , achieved nothing there.
and ottoman empire was kicked from all europe.. thanks to russian empire ,crimea,  bulgaria and romania was liberated by Russian empire by kicking the ass of terrorist turkish ottomans from there.  So bow to russia , more respect for russian army ,they destroyed all the failed dreams of existence of the ottoman empire. and did it again in lybia and syria..

So what the hell you are bragging about?  Turkey have nothing about to feel proud about , is  failed empire that was kicked from europe by Russian empire and other nations ,that today is best friends of losers terrorist like alqaeda , and at times isis too and that 100% depend on NATO for any modern weapons.  from drones to planes all that is nato technology that they give to erdogan to assemble.     and now fighting to get american planes.. because like i said turkey on is own is a failure nation ,that can't do anything worthy of mention.  Iran is far more developed in science than turkey and do their own weapons contrary to turkey.

NATO capture cities by bombing everything there to the ground including civilians.. and turkey can't brag about anything , is a third world failed country today  , with a failed empire past . there is nothing to brag about turkey without Americans you will not even have tanks or combat planes.  

here ottoman enjoy alexander II statue.. commemorating the liberation of Bulgaria from the ottoman empire by alexander II , tzar liberator of europe.  

so there have to be something special about russia , that comes to rescue europe all the time,
first from ottomans invasions , second from napoleon , third from nazis.. europe was always rolled
by raising empires.. and russia stopped all of them..  


statue of Russian tzar Alexander II in bulgaria capital    

and this is how americans captured bagdad.. iraq capital.. by destroying everything ,terrorizing all civilians , endless bombs on all the city.



so there is a huge difference.. american bombs all , dropping a million of bombs ,and later send the army , russia have not bombed kiev civilian zones at all.. is incredibly cautious to save civiians lives , but this slow down their advance significantly.. but if russia did what americans did in iraq.. will have captured kiev in less than one day.. forcing everyone to run . Iraqui army fired from residential buildings and US military shoot them back with their tanks heavy rounds at civilian buildings regardless of civilian lives. there is no comparison at all. If Russia wanted more speed all it have to do is forget about civilians and bomb it all.. wich is the NATO way.



it it wasn't by british empire protection and france ,that threatened with war Russia because wanted to control the gates to the black sea ,  return istanbul to christians , and return all stolen armenian and greek lands ,that ottomans stole ,then today turks will be like kurds.. a nations without land of refugees , just like kurds or more like palestinians ,with no official land .

Regular wrote:If Ilyushins were shot down, then heads of Russian op should roll, it's that simple. War will not stop.

This is fake news.

kvs wrote:Link

Looks like Zelensky ordered the punitive forces in the Donbass to scurry on to Kharkov and Kiev since they have more
important things to do.

This achieves one of the prime objectives of the Russian operation.   After two days.

Easy targets, but will Russia punish them or let them retreat? Russia mod statements are very vague and knowing they don't want to waste Ukrainian lives it could backfire

kvs wrote:

Regular wrote:If Ilyushins were shot down, then heads of Russian op should roll, it's that simple. War will not stop.

This is fake news.

Yes, most likely as they claimed 3. Imagine if one was shot down, it would stop whole operation (was there even a need to use soft air mobile forces where enemy is reachable by conventional army anyway?) 2nd wouldn't enter airspace until skies were clear, not to mention 3rd one.

I was just saying that even if that happened, it's not the end of the war and responsible people would be dealt with. I don't see why there's a need to speculate much what will happen.

Regular wrote:If Ilyushins were shot down, then heads of Russian op should roll, it's that simple. War will not stop.

Indeed. If a single one was shot down, heads should roll.

There should be plenty of intelligence to take out any air defense system with cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, or long range bombers. If one is lost, it would be an almost unfathomable level of incompetence.

Regular wrote:

kvs wrote:Link

Looks like Zelensky ordered the punitive forces in the Donbass to scurry on to Kharkov and Kiev since they have more
important things to do.

This achieves one of the prime objectives of the Russian operation.   After two days.

Easy targets, but will Russia punish them or let them retreat? Russia mod statements are very vague and knowing they don't want to waste Ukrainian lives it could backfire

Those forces in the Donbass are mostly hardcore banderist orcs, Russia won't let them leave. ZeClownsky is way over his head if he thinks they'll make it back to Kiev alive.

PapaDragon wrote:

limb wrote:...I wanna ask, did you guys legetimately believe that ukraine was going to be a NATO member, given that any NATO member can veto its membership?...

Something happened during previous 6-12 months that we don't know about which is what triggered this operation

I said it before that Putin isn't some omnipotent monarch and that decisions in Russian government are made by large number of people some of whom don't even want to be in the same room with each other unless they have to

For all of them to agree on this situation would have to be absolutely critical


It's quite possible that USA was about to push through with rapid membership for the Ukraine despite opposition and to make a dash for the Russian border to establish new status quo

Russian government learning about this would be something that could make all those different suits in Moscow agree that this operation is necessary

I really hope for the sake of russia the russian government knows something we don't. Its just so sad that so much effort in improving relations with many EU nations and NS2 led to this. For the next 50-100 years, russia and entire europe will be divided. I hope Africa, Latin America, and Asia will not be phased by NATO sanctions and continue trade with russia.

Also why couldnt russia create a regime change operation to topple to the neoliberals rather than invading.

Even if the ukrainian government is dewesternized, how will russia ensure that there won't be an anti-russian insurgency? How will it prevent a prowestern government winning elections? What about economic aid?

Operation Compulsion to reason
The events taking place in Ukraine are similar to 08.08.08 - but with their own specifics

https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en.60c113ca-6219b535-7b93827e-74722d776562/https/russtrat.ru/analytics/25-fevralya-2022-0133-8994

"Western Propaganda" whatever

I'm interested to see what has changed on the ground
And also to see if the hopes for the end of Western unilaterism have been dashed (seems unlikely)

But I also think Putin knows the stakes. We're 48 hours in. Need to see results in the next 48 hours besides quaqmire captures of Ukrainian cities.

limb wrote:but I also hate NATO style unilateral agression.

What "unilateral agression"? What do you think the Orcs have been doing in Donbass this past 7+ years? NATO justified its attack on Bosnian Serbs to relieve the Sarajevo siege by claiming it was an "R2P" action, yet Russia is supposed to simply sit quietly and STFU while NATO deliberately undermines Minsk II and encourages the orcs to ignore their obligations, and turning blind eye to their shelling of DPR/LPR? Far more people died in Donbass than Sarajevo...

limb wrote:I just hope russia doesn't annex southern ukraine and actually does denazify and federalize the country.

That's for SE Ukrainians to decide, not you, not I, and certainly not NATO or their orcish clients. I expect that Russia will go big and roll up the regime, including all its regional enablers and enforcers, then turn over regional/oblast governmental control to local officials (after first vetting them to exclude all pro-regime nationalists). I suspect that the majority of the SE Ukrainians may be so against the Banderites that they will look to secede from Ukraine in the same way as Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk already have. Once the Banderites are gone, we can find out what people truly want.

limb wrote:I wanna ask, did you guys legetimately believe that ukraine was going to be a NATO member, given that any NATO member can veto its membership?

Globalist elites certainly intended to drag Ukr into NATO as its the hard-power mechanism that is used to cement elite Western control over the various "sovereign" nation states and bind them to the Globalist will. Ask Poland or Hungary about how much "freedom" they have to manage their own affairs? Given NATO has gobbled up every other East Euro state (by cultivating anti-Russian local elites and waving large bundles of freshly-printed USDs under the noses of their leaders) why would you have any doubt as to their long term intentions? Its not the final destination that is in doubt (Ukr in NATO) but the route taken and the timescale required.

As far as this "veto", while thats theoretically possible, in reality no government of a NATO-controlled state would have the spine to defy Washington or Brussels on this point. Russia certainly would be fools to rely on this mechanism to safeguard their vital security interests. Especially from a military alliance that promised "no one step to the East"

limb wrote:What does big gazza and kvs have to say about their reassurances that ukraine was a worthless shithole that doesn't need to be invaded, but now they claim the invasion was necessary?

Yes, Banderite Ukropistan is/was a worthless shithole, and if left to its own devices (and with a free political system) normal service would eventually have been resumed and the nationalists would be removed from power via the ballot box. Of course, we all know that this was never going to be allowed judging by the overt suppression of opposition voices, and the US/EU happily looked the other way while "democracy" and "freedom" was practised, Banderite-style.

Given that Ukraine was now rendered incapable of any organic internal restoration of legitimate governance, and given the utter refusal of US/EU/NATO elites to even countenance Russias fully legitimate security concerns, Russia was left with no real recourse. They either had to accept a violently hostile anti-Russian Ukronazi state on their border and the specter of US nukes within 5 minutes of flight time to Moscow, or they had to act. Zelensky raising the spectre of Ukraine becoming a nuclear power was probably the final straw. Fcking hell, imagine Banderite crazies with access to nukes...

Russia wanted a Ukraine that conducted herself like Finland, but Globalist plotting gave them a Ukraine more like Germany in 1939. Russia warned the west, and warned them repeatedly, but the incompetent sock-puppets installed as figurehead "leaders" controlled by elite Globalist money simply wouldn't abandon their dreams of global hegemony.

The Bear has now lost patience, and believes that it must act. Sanctions and Western hysteria is going to come regardless of the severity of Russia's actions, so Putin and the Russian elites have decided that they might as well go big and go long. If one must fight, then fight to win.

rigoletto wrote:Operation Compulsion to reason
The events taking place in Ukraine are similar to 08.08.08 - but with their own specifics

https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en.60c113ca-6219b535-7b93827e-74722d776562/https/russtrat.ru/analytics/25-fevralya-2022-0133-8994

Cute article and all but only a total fool would enter Ukraine, attack it, kill their forces, leave and then expect the government to remain neutral.

This isn't their plan it's just one of those "hey see we have good intentions" articles meant to distract people and IF this is their intention then, Putin is a fool.

limb wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

limb wrote:...I wanna ask, did you guys legetimately believe that ukraine was going to be a NATO member, given that any NATO member can veto its membership?...

Something happened during previous 6-12 months that we don't know about which is what triggered this operation

I said it before that Putin isn't some omnipotent monarch and that decisions in Russian government are made by large number of people some of whom don't even want to be in the same room with each other unless they have to

For all of them to agree on this situation would have to be absolutely critical


It's quite possible that USA was about to push through with rapid membership for the Ukraine despite opposition and to make a dash for the Russian border to establish new status quo

Russian government learning about this would be something that could make all those different suits in Moscow agree that this operation is necessary

I really hope for the sake of russia the russian government knows something we don't. Its just so sad that so much effort in improving relations with many EU nations and NS2 led to this. For the next 50-100 years, russia and entire europe will be divided. I hope Africa, Latin America, and Asia will not be phased by NATO sanctions and continue trade with russia.

Also why couldnt russia create a regime change operation to topple to the neoliberals rather than invading.

Even if the ukrainian government is dewesternized, how will russia ensure that there won't be an anti-russian insurgency? How will it prevent a prowestern government winning elections? What about economic aid?

Taking over Ukrainian defense and foreign relation matters. E.g. Cook Islands.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

rigoletto wrote:Operation Compulsion to reason
The events taking place in Ukraine are similar to 08.08.08 - but with their own specifics

https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en.60c113ca-6219b535-7b93827e-74722d776562/https/russtrat.ru/analytics/25-fevralya-2022-0133-8994

Cute article and all but only a total fool would enter Ukraine, attack it, kill their forces, leave and then expect the government to remain neutral.

This isn't their plan it's just one of those "hey see we have good intentions" articles meant to distract people and IF this is their intention then, Putin is a fool.

I don't think an Institute "owned" by a high profile Duma member (Elena Panina) would release the government secret strategies. But it give a good idea of the direction they are aiming at.

kvs wrote:Link

Looks like Zelensky ordered the punitive forces in the Donbass to scurry on to Kharkov and Kiev since they have more
important things to do.

This achieves one of the prime objectives of the Russian operation.   After two days.

Bingo, but I don't think that either the Russian forces moving from behind to envelope them or the DPR/LPR forces hot on their heels (and thirsting for revenge) are about to let the Orcs simply disengage and transit across to shore up the regime center

Nah, the dish of the day is going to be Barbecued Banderite.  The dogs and pigs of Donbass won't go hungry over the next several weeks.

Some Spanish TV news outlet is showing images from video games and claiming it is Russian action in Ukraine.



@limb

Nothing has changed, Ukria is still a shithole. Russia will not be occupying this toilet like the Americans occupy Kosovo, north-east Syria and for a long time
Iraq. It will do the right thing and take out the critical mass of Banderite maggots. This will enable the south and eastern regions to at least decide what
to do. In all likelihood they will choose the path to prosperity and secede to join the LDNR. This part of Ukraine will be worth trading with and even giving
subsidies for some period a la Marshal Plan.

There are a lot of fools in Russia that allowed this sham to get this far by providing poor advice, and fools who even got as high as to the office of presidency, multiple times in Russian history. There is never a lack of fools on this planet, and Russia has plenty. A lot of duma members got a thin spine, as in any other country. They're politicians by trade but when the shooting starts, they don't know where to or how fast to run.

It would be extremely foolish for Russia to simply do what that article suggest. It's, simply speaking, defeat. You can give that intention as your public image cover (that nobody will give a shit about in the West - you're "guilty", period). You can't "compel" others to "reason" when they don't want to. It's a dirty game of lies, backstabbing and deceit. Consequences of which are massive. You do not leave that to chance. You make sure, that the outcome of a post-Kiev takeover is to your liking, and preference - the public image narrative can be whatever creativity comes up with..  You don't invade for anything short or less considering the current cost and consequences. Simple as that.